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[Siha]

Alright, you two, I never read any of the books. So tell honestly, do you think Felassan could hold a candle to Iorveth? Because without any infatuation I can say that Iorveth is the most lively, interesting, annoying, gruesome, frustrating, wonderful, amazing and best-est-est elf ever portrayed. 

[Kappa Neko]

They did that with Mass Effect... And you may or may not remember how well that, er, ended.

You mean like the suicide mission where nobody actually died?

I thought that was hilarious. I spent countless hours wrapping up everyone's personal issues so they could die in peace and then they all lived. What a waste of time that was...

 

At least ME2 (and also ME3) made you feel like things were going to get really ugly. And they did, just not for Shepard's buddies. DAI definitely has a much more cheerful athomsphere. Which I don't mind at all. The breach is pretty apocalyptic too but you know that you can close it with your magic anchor. Plus, one villain is not as depressing as an army of thousands of giant machines that have been wiping out civilizations since forever. As Shepard I'd be rocking in corner sobbing all day. But the inquisitor's got her super-weapon, fear not, Thedas!
 

[Felya87]

I must admit my liking of the Solas romance for now is in big part because of the "unfinished" feeling. Surely not for the break up. Sorry, happen already in RL. I'm one of those (apparently few) people who tear up with the happy ending, and just rage with the drama.

 

I like the drama only if it lead to something better, important. Drama only for the sake of it for me is just bad writing and lazyness. many people seem to like it. I don't.

I play to get out of my problems for a little time, to live adventures, overcome difficulties and to see that my hard work gave fruit. I'm passing a bad period, where I see that all I do doesn't really change anything. I work hard and with good results, but the economy doesn't let this hard work give fruit. I've worked hard with my family to cure a family member, but a heart attack killed him, making all our time and work, and emotional struggle meaningless.

I've already real life reminding me I'm useless, and I can't make things better. I don't need a game to remind me what I see every day I wake up and go to work.

 

A game should give me fun. Is why people play for, no? to have fun. If any of the stories I've became so engaged with is going to end bad no matter what, than I really will stop coming back to BioWare. I've already put a stone on the ME serie. I can't anymore play the entire trilogy, I can't play to relax and have the same delusions I have in RL. Nope. No ME4 for me.

 

I get people who like tragedy, Good for you. But I really can't have fun with unavoidable tragedy in a game with choices and consequences. I'd like to say that this is because is the bad period I'm living, but I know is not that. My life have and had in the past too much negative events. I'm tired of it, so I can't like storyes who end in tragedy.

[Kestrel]

Alright, you two, I never read any of the books. So tell honestly, do you think Felassan could hold a candle to Iorveth? Because without any infatuation I can say that Iorveth is the most lively, interesting, annoying, gruesome, frustrating, wonderful, amazing and best-est-est elf ever portrayed. 

 

Felassan is an interesting character. I think Iorveth is slightly more nuanced, but we also see far more of Iorveth than we do of Felassan, and a lot of Felassan remains a mystery throughout the book. Personally, I think Iorveth is more developed, and thus easier to grow attached to, but there is a lot of Felassan to enjoy.  But there's a lot about him purposefully kept hidden that I assume might one day be revealed. Maybe not. 

[nikki-tikki]

Omg. Omg. Blackwall actually calls you a Tyrant. AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH YASSSSS

 

 

 

THIS HAS TYRANT LAVELLAN SPLATTERED ALL OVER IT

[Cee]

Alright, you two, I never read any of the books. So tell honestly, do you think Felassan could hold a candle to Iorveth? Because without any infatuation I can say that Iorveth is the most lively, interesting, annoying, gruesome, frustrating, wonderful, amazing and best-est-est elf ever portrayed. 

 

 

I had to look up who this Iorveth guy was. I don't know how they'd compare.

[Giton]

Someone should write Iorveth/Solas crossover fiction. They can title it: Witcher Age: The Reckoning.

[nikki-tikki]

It also doesn't help that BioWare constantly sets up our "normal person" as the next Coming Of before beating that character down with the Helpless Stick. I disagree about Hawke and Shepard being "normal people," because every character they meet constantly fawns over them, gushes about how special they are, and praises them for being the most competent and capable person they ever met, even before the players see them do anything to deserve it. Right out of the starting gate, Shepard and Hawke are praised as the most amazing person ever based on off-screen accomplishments (Shepard's text-based military background; Hawke's year of indentured servitude), yet the player is told they're the most talented and competent person ever, so they expect the character's in-game actions to live up to their reputations. Can you really blame players for being upset when they're told their character can solve anything and then see that they screw everything up instead?

 

 

I have to disagree...I've never played ME but I've played the **** out of DA2 and people don't fawn over you at all until you beat the Arishok...Fereldans in Kirkwall are looked down upon as scum, especially since you come as a refugee and have to work your ass off to gain a decent living situation..(cause living with Gamlen is such an accomplishment right?)

[Cee]

DAO and Inquisition are different because they don't set you up as the most special person to ever live before tripping you up. (Except for Cousland. **** Cousland.) DAO and DAI make it clear that you were just some random schmuck (unless you're Cousland, in which case you're the Maker's greatest gift to Thedas since Andraste) who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, then rose to prominence due to the problems you solve and deeds you accomplish over the course of the game. The player feels like they earned their stripes and earned the fame and praise they eventually get (most characters are skeptical of you first, when you think about it), which is much different from being showered with praise first and then seeing that the character don't live up to the hype.

 

That's the way I see it.

 

I honestly don't get this attitude toward a Cousland Warden. I played one, and her whole family was brutally attacked. Yes, she came from a notable family, but I never felt like you described. That whole game feels like an uphill climb.

 

But I also don't think that Inquisition gives the player too much or is too positive. There are many hints at cracks potentially forming, and it's also an uphill climb but the resistance seems necessarily more distant. You're controlling a network that spans all over. That said, I think the PC's character development, especially for a Lavellan, through the end of the game, is significant. As others have stated, the JoH DLC adds something, without spoiling, to this development.
 

[Armdin]

You mean like the suicide mission where nobody actually died?

I thought that was hilarious. I spent countless hours wrapping up everyone's personal issues so they could die in peace and then they all lived. What a waste of time that was...

 

At least ME2 (and also ME3) made you feel like things were going to get really ugly. And they did, just not for Shepard's buddies. DAI definitely has a much more cheerful athomsphere. Which I don't mind at all. The breach is pretty apocalyptic too but you know that you can close it with your magic anchor. Plus, one villain is not as depressing as an army of thousands of giant machines that have been wiping out civilizations since forever. As Shepard I'd be rocking in corner sobbing all day. But the inquisitor's got her super-weapon, fear not, Thedas!
 

 

Haha, speak for yourself! In the vents you go, Jacob! Yes, I know we still haven't seen your daddy, I promise I'll get right on that as sooon as we get ba- oops, u ded. My bad. Oh well, onwards!

[Armdin]

-snippity-do-da-snippity-eh-

 

DAO and Inquisition are different because they don't set you up as the most special person to ever live before tripping you up. (Except for Cousland. **** Cousland.) DAO and DAI make it clear that you were just some random schmuck (unless you're Cousland, in which case you're the Maker's greatest gift to Thedas since Andraste) who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, then rose to prominence due to the problems you solve and deeds you accomplish over the course of the game. -a-little-snip-off-the-bottom-

 

Where's this for Cousland come from? Mine still felt as you described with the other origin stories. Do you have to play up the Noble bit in conversations? (I don't think I did x( except to mention dead mama and papa to Alistair)

[Elira]

In today's modern world, I think most of us already feel like average, unimportant screw ups who often get swept up in events beyond our control and inevitably make mistakes that have terrible and unavoidable consequences. I think part of the draw of video games for so many people is the feeling of agency and importance in the video game world. We may be average in real life, but we can play important characters. We can't really control our own fate, but we can control our character and the fate of the world s/he lives in.

 

I think that's part of why BioWare constantly beating us with the helpless stick doesn't fly over with so many people. If we wanted to feel like average screw ups who can't really control the outcome of our actions or environments, we could do that much better in real life.

 

It also doesn't help that BioWare constantly sets up our "normal person" as the next Coming Of before beating that character down with the Helpless Stick. I disagree about Hawke and Shepard being "normal people," because every character they meet constantly fawns over them, gushes about how special they are, and praises them for being the most competent and capable person they ever met, even before the players see them do anything to deserve it. Right out of the starting gate, Shepard and Hawke are praised as the most amazing person ever based on off-screen accomplishments (Shepard's text-based military background; Hawke's year of indentured servitude), yet the player is told they're the most talented and competent person ever, so they expect the character's in-game actions to live up to their reputations. Can you really blame players for being upset when they're told their character can solve anything and then see that they screw everything up instead?

 

DAO and Inquisition are different because they don't set you up as the most special person to ever live before tripping you up. (Except for Cousland. **** Cousland.) DAO and DAI make it clear that you were just some random schmuck (unless you're Cousland, in which case you're the Maker's greatest gift to Thedas since Andraste) who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, then rose to prominence due to the problems you solve and deeds you accomplish over the course of the game. The player feels like they earned their stripes and earned the fame and praise they eventually get (most characters are skeptical of you first, when you think about it), so it doesn't really hurt as much when they make a mistake. It's much different from being showered with praise first and then seeing that the character doesn't live up to the hype.

 

That's the way I see it.

 

Erm, isn't this Cousland dislike a bit harsh? I'm not going to blame your for disliking them or anything. That's your right, but from my position, it seems a bit unkind, if I'm honest. I'm not entirely sure where this tripping out of glorification that you speak of stems, and maybe I've simply forgotten, but I don't recall anything quite to that degree. I remember some remarks and compliments of your combat skills, Duncan saying you would make a good Warden candidate, and then as the game progresses people acknowledging your nobility, but that about sums it up. I honestly just don't remember anyone falling over themselves. My canon Warden is a Cousland, and I've played that origin several times, but it's not my favorite. That position goes to the Magi or Dalish. But I hope this doesn't come off rude, or inciting a fight or anything. 

 

Okay I'll be quiet now. I don't want to argue. I don't like making people angry.

[nikki-tikki]

I've played both, and compared to DAO and DAI, I felt rather disgusted by just how much praise these characters get right from the start.

 

After the prologue, Hawke's year of off-screen indentured servitude has pretty much ensured that Hawke has a reputation around the city for being the person who can get things done. Everyone you meet within the city alludes to the amazing things you did while you were indentured, and typically act like, "Oh, Hawke's here! Finally, we can get things done!" And to say nothing of how many countless characters treat other characters one way but treat Hawke completely differently. (Countless schmucks in the city try to sign up for Varric and Bartrand's Deep Roads expidition, yet HAWKE is special enough to get picked out to be an equal partner the day s/he and Varric meet. Fenris was on the run from Denarius for years, but HAWKE was special enough to stick around for. The Dalish dislike and distrust strangers and shemlen, yet the Sabre Clan trust strange shemlen Hawke with their ways and secrets more than Merrill, their own kind. Every Mage in Kirkwall lives in terror of getting caught by Templars, yet a Mage Hawke struts around the city casting spells right and left for 7 years and never once faces even the threat of being locked up. By Act 2 most Templars know you're a mage, yet no one ever lifts a finger to arrest you. And don't give me, "Well, Hawke was rich and protected in Hightown by then." Emile de Launcet was a wealthy noble from Hightown too, but that didn't stop the Templars from taking him in or trying to get him back when he escaped in Act 3. Every other Hightown mage lives with the fear of the Gallows too, but Hawke? Hawke is just SPECIAL.)

 

Okay. First of all. The city of Kirkwall has different networks. There are different sections of the city to purposely divide the classes. Hawke has a reputation because (depending if you go with the smugglers or the mercenaries) that network has connections. Which Varric happens to have a huge part of. Bartrand doesn't know Hawke or what he/she is capable of at all. Varric knows because he did his research. He didn't just magically know. 

 

Fenris didn't choose Hawke, your chosen prologue choice does. Fenris asked Anso, who is also part of that network connection that was mentioned earlier. 

 

And don't get me started on the Dalish. When you walk in there they don't want to let you in. Keeper Marethari says to let you in because she knows that Asha' bellanar sent you. And we all know Flemeth is shady as ****. 

 

Regarding Hawke being a mage and not being taken to the circle...let's just imagine how fun the game would have been if that had happened. 

 

Hawke is not a special snowflake. He/she just happens to either be really lucky or not lucky at all.

 

Edit: Also. Fenris pays you after you help him, meaning it was a business transaction. Meaning he didn't just trust you right away. He stuck around because he saw Hawke could get **** done. 

[NightSymphony]

Haha, speak for yourself! In the vents you go, Jacob! Yes, I know we still haven't seen your daddy, I promise I'll get right on that as sooon as we get ba- oops, u ded. My bad. Oh well, onwards!

hehehe...I love killing Jacob!! 

[Colonelkillabee]

I had to look up who this Iorveth guy was. I don't know how they'd compare.

They wouldn't, because Iorveth is one of the few elves I can actually say is manly and a boss. The other being my man Garahel.

 

Oh, and duh, Solas of course

 

Iorveth tops all though.

[Colonelkillabee]

Oh, and I don't know that Iorveth would make a good Dalish, the Dalish seem to have misplaced their balls atm.

 

He'd be the revolutionary leader they need though to unite them and start scalping some Orlesian plebeian pissants.

[Gervaise]

Hello again, Solas fans.   I don't know if this has already been discussed here but I was looking at the extract of the upcoming World of Thedas 2 on Amazon and I noticed that it is confirmed that the stained glass window of the elf with the key is Shartan.    I'd always thought it a bit odd that the central window as you walk up the aisle of the Redcliffe Chantry and so the thing that most takes your attention is that one, if it was Shartan, considering the Chantry had all but removed him from records and on the whole had had any iconography to do with him destroyed.   Yet, there he is, bold as brass, as the most important window in the Chantry in Redcliffe.    I had also rejected the theories that Shartan could have been Solas in an earlier incarnation because he was meant to be a warrior.   Yet that window definitely has him in robes that make him look far more like a mage and of course he is holding a key (to what?).    The similarities between that window and Solas' tarot card are very marked, so now I'm starting to wonder if the theories are right.    It would explain why he told my Inquisitor that in the future he is going to have to decide whether to tear down the Chantry or not (also whether to support Solas or not) because that is one of the things he wants to set right because it sure isn't what he and Andraste envisioned.   The text about Andraste also seems to confirm beyond doubt that she was some sort of mage dreamer.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I've played both, and compared to DAO and DAI, I felt rather disgusted by just how much praise these characters get right from the start.

 

IMO for a heroic deconstruction to even begin (like what BioWare attempted in ME3 and DA2), there has to be something to deconstruct in the first place, a scaffolding to pull down so to speak.  Spec Ops: The Line did the same thing, setting the character up as a hero and then pulling the rug out from under them.  If you choose to, you can play that way in Deus Ex, where Jensen is set up to be a special snowflake cybercop with strong moral convictions, and he can backslide into violence and cruelty.  So to me, it sounds like you just don't like playing a heroic deconstruction.  Which is perfectly fine.  Not everyone likes that sort of story.

 

As for Mage Hawke, I believe the devs admitted that elements of magic, especially specializations like Blood Magic, came down to gameplay/story segregation and handwaving.  Which is IMO a lame excuse, but given how rushed DA2's development was and how many polish problems the game had, I can see it coming down to that.

[yetanothername]

 I'd always thought it a bit odd that the central window as you walk up the aisle of the Redcliffe Chantry and so the thing that most takes your attention is that one, if it was Shartan, considering the Chantry had all but removed him from records and on the whole had had any iconography to do with him destroyed.   Yet, there he is, bold as brass, as the most important window in the Chantry in Redcliffe. 

 

I was really confused about the Shartan imagery, too - it wasn't just in Redcliffe. There was a distinct lack of ears-docking going on in-game, which threw off my story... I wasn't sure if it was a mistake, or not.

 

 

As for Mage Hawke, I believe the devs admitted that elements of magic, especially specializations like Blood Magic, came down to gameplay/story segregation and handwaving.  Which is IMO a lame excuse, but given how rushed DA2's development was and how many polish problems the game had, I can see it coming down to that.

 

Mage Hawke made me sad. Mods to the rescue, there - Nightmare Hawke was, in fact, a badass, even if the rest of the world is in flames   Pro-Templar Mage/Assassin, rogue gear only, nothing but force spells until she hit the wilderness or the final battles. "Surprise!" She totally survived the Fade, even if there's not a single spirit of wisdom or compassion left in there...

[Sable Rhapsody]

Mage Hawke made me sad. Mods to the rescue, there - Nightmare Hawke was, in fact, a badass, even if the rest of the world is in flames   Pro-Templar Mage/Assassin, rogue gear only, nothing but force spells until she hit the wilderness or the final battles. "Surprise!" She totally survived the Fade, even if there's not a single spirit of wisdom or compassion left in there...

 

I love Mage!Hawke.  I had to do some creative headcanoning since mine was also a Blood Mage.  Ultimate special flower.  But she was still fun to play.  I'd just rather not have to do the extra mental gymnastics to make everything make sense.  I had to do an equal amount of mental gymnastics to rationalize why my reasonable Templar Hawke was never able to do anything about Anders when he was clearly up to no good.

[Elira]

Pardon me, but my Solas shirt just arrived, so I have to go have to go fangirl over it, and likely affirm my lack of sanity further.

[nikki-tikki]

I had to do an equal amount of mental gymnastics to rationalize why my reasonable Templar Hawke was never able to do anything about Anders when he was clearly up to no good.

 

I ask myself that everyday.....

[Sable Rhapsody]

I ask myself that everyday.....

 

Go to Cullen, he says they found nothing.  NOTHING?!  I LITERALLY JUST GOT ANDERS INGREDIENTS FOR THE POOP BOMB.  What did he do, stick them up his robes?  He can't have THAT many pockets.  Go to Elthina, she Elthinas.  I don't remember if you can tip off Meredith or Orsino, just that everyone was useless.  Eventually I just sort of went, "OK, Anders, they're all yours.  Let the Kirkwall Darwin Awards begin with fireworks."

 

In-game, I wound up headcanoning it as my Templar Hawke being much too forgiving and nice for his own good.  He really wanted to believe that Anders could pull through, and thought that tipping off the authorities would push Justice to something desperate.  As it is, nothing you do really matters, but at least the headcanon pins the blame on my Hawke instead of making it look like all of Kirkwall had lobotomies.