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[Sable Rhapsody]

On an unrelated note, I finally uninstalled DA:I to make room for Shadows of Mordor after the Steam sale.  Slowly clawing my way out.

[Cee]

On an unrelated note, I finally uninstalled DA:I to make room for Shadows of Mordor after the Steam sale.  Slowly clawing my way out.

....un...installed?

[nikki-tikki]

I'm glad it doesn't work on you, but it works on plenty of others. I wouldn't even really mind except I feel like the devs want players to hate them, and go out of their way to portray them as even more unsympathetic and unlikable with every new piece of media. (The Masked Empire being the worst so far.) 

 

"It all comes back to intention," my sister always says. If I didn't feel it was the devs' intention to make people hate the Dalish, I wouldn't be bothered by it. 

 

 

If the devs framed it as "everyone is wrong," I wouldn't mind as much. However, they seem to be giving everyone else fair and balanced representation (or to present moral grey and let the players decide for themselves who they side with), but for the Dalish they seem intent on slanting the Dalish in a negative light.

 

For example, DAI is all about how all of Southern Thedas makes the protagonist into a symbol of worship to reaffirm their own faith in their own religion, even when told or shown evidence to the contrary. It's largely treated as, "Oh, people are desperate and frightened, and they've made you into the symbol of hope they desperately need." Even if you (the PC) criticize it, there's always at least one character on-hand to defend it. (Cassandra, the Advisers, Giselle, etc.)

 

Okay, fair enough... except that when the Dalish do it (romanticize their own past as a way to reaffirm their own faith in their culture to give them strength to carry on), there's always a character on-hand to gloat about how WRONG they are (Sera, Solas, Briala, etc), and the narrative itself seems to cast a value-judgment that a culture based on a "lie" or misconception is inherently flawed... Despite how the Inquisition itself is built on such a principle (i.e. people assuming the PC is the Herald just because they survived a blast) without overt narrative criticism. (Plus, if a Dalish PC doesn't take a pro-Dalish stance, no one does.)

 

Andrastians do it? They're just desperate for hope. Dalish do it? They're bad-stupid-wrong and need to change.

 

That's my view on it. 

 

Well considering the Andrastian faith is the most popular, there are going to be alot more people to defend it. Also Solas himself goes to the Dalish to try and tell them the truth but they ran him off as a crazy old man. Cause you know the Dalish know best.

 

Like I said. In the end everyone is wrong so far until further notice. 

[Armdin]

Just quoting this bit as this is all I'm responding too atm really ...

 

Sera isn't so much anti-Dalish as she's anti-elven.  Anything to do with elves she pretty much hates.  I honestly think she hates herself a bit because she's an elf.  She insults city elves, dalish elves, anything to do with elven culture.  She's really kind of racist.  And a hypocrite.  She says people should be people and treated the same but she kinda means that people should be treated the same except for elves, they should be mocked.

 

Apologies for the mini-rant about Sera.

 

Anyway, I don't hate the dalish.  I found some of them in DAO and DA2 to be rude and arrogant .. but once you talk to them a bit and if you're polite, the ones that were rude tended to relax and be polite back.  And it's understandable given the way a lot of humans treat them.  So I try to cut the dalish some slack.

 

The writers/devs just seem to like killing off entire clans wholesale.  You can kill Zathrian's clan in DAO, you can kill Merrill's clan in DA2, you can get Lavellan's clan killed off in DAI.  I haven't read Masked Empire but I hear a clan gets killed off there.  I rather wish they'd stop killing off clans left and right.

Is it racism if it's against your own people? Genuine question there.

 

Aside from DAI, no Dalish clans have died in my games. It's a choice that's there, and I think the fact that it happens in each game installment so far is either down to coincidence (like apostate Mages breaking your heart, now it's a theme, but I'm convinced it's coincidence), or to show how truly downtrodden the elves are, and how you can make it moreso if you choose to play it that way. We can quite happily wipe them out and there's no real consequence for it, you won't miss out on support in Origins, Merrill still likes you, and no one gives a dick buggery to mention poor Lavellan's family.

[nikki-tikki]

During my Tyrant Lavellan playthrough I tried to do everything anti-Dalish and basically the only thing I could do was agree with Sera. 

[Cee]

Again, you would have an excellent point, and I would agree, except I've tried to raise some concerns in the past and they were always shot down.

 

Okay then, BioWare, make your dominant Thedas race coded white European Christian with some historic Italian and Spanish Moor, and your minority race coded every minority race and culture that white European Christians ever came into contact with (Jew, Gypsy, Afro-Native American, Irish Celt from back when they were considered as bad as "non-whites," etc), fail to portray them well and dismiss it as "elves aren't real, so we can portray them however we want." Sure, go nuts. Your call, BioWare.

 

I'm not bitter, I swear!

 

 

 

Eh, I think she seems to have a special sack of bile reserved just for Dalish, and will even breakup with a Dalish girlfriend over it. (It's not like she breaks up with a mage girlfriend over refusing to say "All mages belong in Circles" or a Trevelyan girlfriend over refusing to say "All nobles suck and should give up their money and titles or else," or something.)

 

Sera was raised with Andrastian values and as far as your other statements, they're not equivalent comparisons. This piece talks about race versus culture when it comes to Sera but also how DAI treats elven race versus elven culture, and I recommend it as relevant.

 

As for your other comment, you're far from the only one who has critiqued the way race coding happens, as well as how diversity is handled in BioWare games. Tanya D does some wonderful criticism: https://biowaremetac....wordpress.com/

 

[NightSymphony]

but but..Sable..it's almost May..it's almost Black Emporium time... 

[Uirebhiril]

On an unrelated note, I finally uninstalled DA:I to make room for Shadows of Mordor after the Steam sale.  Slowly clawing my way out.

 

What...

 

Please. Please tell us you saved your saves.

[CapricornSun]

I do love this. I hope you share it with the author. She was linking to all the fanart in one of her previous chapters. 

 

Thanks! And yes, I believe she saw it already, hehehehe!

 

 

Anyway, time for more art!

 

Some Solas artworks:

Spoiler

Young Solas

Spoiler

http://ngc5139.tumbl...-usually-a-good

 

 

Solas tattoo. 

Spoiler

http://middagsrester...from-dragon-age

 

 

Mr. Darcy!Solas, inspired by David Gaider's Dragon Age Regency AU tweets.

Spoiler

http://karininini.tu...r-since-gaiders

 

 

Solas and a wolf pup.

Spoiler

http://chardik.tumbl...st/117202313409

 

 

"I got your back." -- Solavellan

Spoiler

http://asphyxiate-my...ong-post-second

 

 

Solas and Kid!Inquisitor

Spoiler

http://agent-jaselin...archs-in-thedas

 

 

Solas and Iron Bull in leotards. O__O

Spoiler

http://50shadesoftha...ght-to-judge-me

 

 

Lovely doodle of the companions.

Spoiler

http://caitercates.t...na-finish-these

 

[NightSymphony]

Wow...a Solas tattoo....now that's a fan.   I can not compete..

[Kestrel]

That's it. I am writing the Regency AU.

 

That Solas tattoo is lovely but uhm. That is a large life decision. 

[CapricornSun]

Wow...a Solas tattoo....now that's a fan.   I can not compete..

That's it. I am writing the Regency AU.

 

That Solas tattoo is lovely but uhm. That is a large life decision. 

 

The tattoo is lovely but yes, even though I looooove Solas to death, a Solas tattoo is a bit much. ^__^;

 

EDIT: And Kestrel, I'd love to read that Regency AU of yours. Can't wait!

 

Also, thank you to everyone who liked my artwork. It means a lot to me.

[Cee]

There are fictional works that I would consider as tattoos in one form or another but these are things meaningful to me and my life for like...15 years or more, that haven't changed. That Solas tattoo....yep, kind of a commitment there.

[Kestrel]

I mean, I was just in Bath to visit the Jane Austen museum not that long ago. Sigh. Why does Gaider do this to me. 

 

Honestly, if I were to get an Inquisition tattoo (which I wouldn't, tbh), I would go with something far more abstract- a deer to symbolize the Dalish, or something like that. Something you can get away with having another meaning, a few years down the line. But to each their own. 

[Cee]

I told my boyfriend how I have considered a 24601 tattoo to symbolize Jean Valjean (that whole story of redemption and everything else about his story has been an inspiration to me for years. I read the unabridged novel many years ago and that was just the beginning), and he went "why would you want to get a prison number?".

 

I can think of abstract DA things that could work if this lasts that long.

[Catfishers]

There are fictional works that I would consider as tattoos in one form or another but these are things meaningful to me and my life for like...15 years or more, that haven't changed. That Solas tattoo....yep, kind of a commitment there.

 

I'm the same. I have (tiny) LoTR tattoo, because those books are really meaningful for my Dad and me. But I'd be rather apprehensive of getting something from a video-game tattooed, just because I know my interests tend to change wildly from year to year and my fervent obsession with things really comes and goes.

 

That said, it's a really lovely tattoo and a beautiful piece of art, so I can understand getting it from an aesthetic point of view. Not everything has to have a deep meaning, sometimes it can just be pretty. As long as they don't regret it later then… eh.

[Siha]

EDIT:  Oh, and I think adventurousness is an implied attribute of most RPG heroes, not particularly Sue-ish.  I mean, you have to be a little nuts to hear about some professor trying to bait a terrifying, firebreathing monster and think "Yeah, I'm gonna go help that guy.  That's the best idea."

 
And all the walking. Don't forget the walking. Seriously, being an RPG hero involves an awful lot of walking.
 
If LOTR had been an RPG to begin with, Frodo would have met some old man collapsed on a road in Gondor who'd have begged him for help, "Please, young hobbit, please, I'm so hungry and I'm so weak, I need... an apple. Please go to the Shire and bring back an apple to me." -- "But there's an apple right over there on that tr..." -- "Noo. It must be an apple from the Shire! Now, hurry!" 
 

Sera was raised with Andrastian values and as far as your other statements, they're not equivalent comparisons. This piece talks about race versus culture when it comes to Sera but also how DAI treats elven race versus elven culture, and I recommend it as relevant.

 
I liked this very much. "But here’s the thing about Sera, the druffalo in the room: she hates elven culture. Some people see that as self-hating and I understand that conclusion. To some extent, I agree. I also think that this game, more than the others in the series, goes out of its way to separate the elven race from elven culture." I think this nails it. She is not racist, she does not hate elves for being elves. She hates the Dalish tendency to distance themselves from the rest of the world because they feel superior for being some special elite group. Which is why she will come to respect even a Dalish inquisitor who dismisses any cultural superiority.

Anyway, I'll leave it at that. I know explaining her motives and background isn't welcome here.

[nikki-tikki]

*snippysnappy*

 

That's all I have to say about that. If you have a rebuttal that ends with "everyone's wrong," I'm not answering.

 

[Sable Rhapsody]

What...

 

Please. Please tell us you saved your saves.

 

Oh definitely.  I'm not about to replay 150+ hours of game 

 

but but..Sable..it's almost May..it's almost Black Emporium time... 

 

....un...installed?

 

It is in fact possible to stop playing DA:I all the time!  Though not necessary unless you only have one SSD like me    At this point, I'm just waiting for the modding/patching situation to become less touch-and-go before I get back into Inquisition.  I'm always terrified I'll break something, and I'm not new to modding.  

 

 

Again, you would have an excellent point, and I would agree, except I've tried to raise some concerns in the past and they were always shot down.

 

Okay then, BioWare, make your dominant Thedas race coded white European Christian with some historic Italian and Spanish Moor, and your minority race coded every minority race and culture that white European Christians ever came into contact with (Jew, Gypsy, Afro-Native American, Irish Celt from back when they were considered as bad as "non-whites," etc), fail to portray them well and dismiss it as "elves aren't real, so we can portray them however we want." Sure, go nuts. Your call, BioWare.

 

I'm not bitter, I swear!

 

Neither was I over ME3.  I swear 

 

Like I said, I'm not comfortable with assuming anything on their behalf.  They're people.  Sure, it's a Canadian studio, probably mostly white European Christian culturally.  But they're doing a lot better with inclusivity and representation than most game studios, and they actually try.  For example, they made a genuine effort with a transgender character after receiving feedback about the negative portrayal of Serendipity in DA2.  

 

They do listen to feedback, and I very much doubt that the developers would shoot down courteous criticism out of hand.  Fans, maybe, but whatever.  Fans say bizarre things all the time.  Just look at some of the wackiness we get up to on this thread 

[Cee]

Like I said, I'm not comfortable with assuming anything on their behalf.  They're people.  Sure, it's a Canadian studio, probably mostly white European Christian culturally.  But they're doing a lot better with inclusivity and representation than most game studios, and they actually try.  For example, they made a genuine effort with a transgender character after receiving feedback about the negative portrayal of Serendipity in DA2.  

 

They do listen to feedback, and I very much doubt that the developers would shoot down courteous criticism out of hand.  Fans, maybe, but whatever.  Fans say bizarre things all the time.  Just look at some of the wackiness we get up to on this thread 

 

Being able to criticize the things you love is also a good thing. Are these games perfect? No. Are there some issues worth genuine critique? Yep. I mentioned Tanya D, since she's a fan of BioWare games but she also offers up some really great criticism too.  In any case, they have been trying, IMO. Even things like how in DA2, your Hawke's skin color would transfer to his/her family, which did not happen in Origins. These little things sometimes fall in people's blind spots. That's not an excuse, just a fact. Developers are only human after all. There have been efforts and they don't come across as tone deaf if someone offers thoughtful criticism.

 

I like what position DA has placed the elves in, in relation to many other worlds where there are elves of some sort. And oppression does not have to necesarily have real analogues. Sometimes you can just appreciate Elvhen gods who like to grab butts while being bad decison makers and also suave as hell.

[MoonDrummer]

The only Dalish change that annoys me is the three Mage rule, it doesn't make any sense IMO.

[Siha]

It is in fact possible to stop playing DA:I all the time!  Though not necessary unless you only have one SSD like me    At this point, I'm just waiting for the modding/patching situation to become less touch-and-go before I get back into Inquisition.  I'm always terrified I'll break something, and I'm not new to modding.  

 

 

Do what you want! I stopped playing DAI back in January, after having played it for almost 4 weeks. This is much longer than I've ever played any single game before (I think, I didn't even play ME much longer than 6 weeks and that were 3 games). Doesn't mean I'm not willing to go back or I don't like it anymore.

BACK TO DEUS EX!!! (Sorry, still my most favorite of all time, though I cannot logically explain why.)

 

 

About this whole racism against elves thingy... I have thought about this a lot. Not too deeply but often. I do think Faerunner has a point. I myself often thought the Dalish were depicted a bit negatively. (I also get the feeling I am supposed to dislike the Qun, but Siha is a bullhead and doesn't like to follow on principle, so she refuses to dislike the Qun just yet, considering how little she knows about it.) I might even accept the notion that the devs explicitly want to foster some animosity (I share it, but only regarding Dalish). 

 

However, and now my useless 2 cents on this, any opinion always needs two sides, one to propose it and one to adopt it. "Takes more than one person to decide what's fair", Modest Mouse sing. Everything in the world can be viewed negatively OR positively, whatever the observer wishes. I can dislike the Dalish for their hostility, secludedness, and unwillingness to open up. Or I can decide to call the very same thing not arrogance but "a strong will" or "dedication" or "strength to stand up to the majority". (Or I can call these traits negative, but still accept the Dalish as decent people, which is what Siha does.) It's the player's choice how he judges, and it's probably a matter of character too.

 

Some irrelevant blahblah under the spoiler tag.

Spoiler

Are there aspects that allow to view the Dalish negatively? Hell yes. But do we have to attribute these aspect to the elves (or even Dalish) in general? This is a choice. It's just like real world racism. Not all blacks are violent drug dealers, not all whites are alcoholic thugs, not all Muslims are Islamist terrorists, despite there being such examples. Still some people decide to ignore this and accept a stereotype as a representative. (Just like the "Look into the Koran, it says... and therefore, Muslims are bad." Uh.. no? I work with Muslims and those are decent people. How many Christians actually read the Bible in full? And is the Bible alright by modern standards? Come on.)

 

I dislike many things they've shown me about the Dalish ever since DAO. I dislike many things about Sera. I dislike many things about Solas. I dislike many things about the Wardens. I even dislike many things about the protagonist. So what? Let's be honest, in the real world I feel so much disdain for "people in general", the "unthinking majority". Still I have faith in humanity, know a lot of individuals I like very much, am aware that not everybody is the same, and meet new people with positive expectations. Nothing is ever only black and white. I can accept flaws to a certain extend. But that's me, others choose not to do so.

Moreover, let's assume the devs really want some players biased against the Dalish. We still don't know the intention. Maybe they only want to represent our real world, which does exhibit racism based on only a few cultural characteristics or the mere fact that something is alien/strange/different. Maybe they want to frame the Dalish, yes, but maybe not? Maybe they want to lead some players to prejudices, only to later punch into their faces "See where your arrogance got you"? We don't know. Same thing applies to everything in DA --  the Qun, Andrastians, the Chantry, the Wardens, the Templars, mages, the Circles etc. They give us one notion and tint it, only to question it all later. Just think of how they built up the heroic aura of the Wardens in DAO and now, what's still left of it? Maybe all they really want to show us is "Don't judge a book by its cover, you short-sighted idiot".