I just don't think anything in the game is actual racism because none of these races are real...cool that there is in game conflict about it, sure, but saying that the devs/writers are racist against elves or whatever is just undermining the struggles of real racism...I personally think that sometimes we can take things about a game or fictional characters way too seriously.
It's just weird bringing real world situations into it. It's not the same thing.
Patrick Weekes @PatrickWeekes 4m4 minutes ago
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. LEGO ships built studs-not-on-top. I watched Solas fan-art glitter atop the bookshelves.
Weekes misquoting Blade Runner?
Roy Batty: Quite an experience to live in fear isn't it? That's what it means to be a slave...
All those moments will be lost in time... Like tears in the rain... Time to die...
Hmmm, interesting... Noooooooooo!
Is it racism if it's against your own people? Genuine question there.
Speaking as a former employment lawyer, yes, you can be found guilty of racial discrimination against your own racial group. It sounds weird but it is not an entirely unknown phenomenon.
BTW "race discrimination" in the Eurozone covers discrimination on the grounds of race, culture, colour, ethnic group and nationality...
Wow...a Solas tattoo....now that's a fan.
I can not compete..
But, why Solas with dread hair version, meh.
Bald Solas would have been much prettier for me, but hey, it's not my skin, so who cares.
I just don't think anything in the game is actual racism because none of these races are real...cool that there is in game conflict about it, sure, but saying that the devs/writers are racist against elves or whatever is just undermining the struggles of real racism...I personally think that sometimes we can take things about a game or fictional characters way too seriously.
It's just weird bringing real world situations into it. It's not the same thing.
I don't think Faerunner (or anybody, really) said "the writers are racist". She said they depict the Dalish negatively in order to trigger animosity in the players.
I've heard the "nothing is racism because the races aren't real" argument before, along with "roleplaying racism is fun". But most things real racists base their ideas on aren't real either, e.g. any sort of biological/genetic superiority of people with one skin color over those with another.
I personally am not racist and could not be so in a game either, just because the basic idea of discrimination is against everything I believe in. For me, in-game racism is a representation of real racism. But that's just me individually, and I play self-insert. You and everybody else can do whatever they like.
I understand in-universe characters being more inclined toward one culture, religion, or whatever. Not out-of-universe devs (the ones with the mighty pens that can write any character in or out of existence) supporting that by throwing plenty of characters to positively represent some in-universe factions but none to positively represent another reeks of narrative bias to me.
We don't have many significant elven characters in this game, but every single one of them just happens to anti-Dalish and possibly anti-"elfy". Solas hates Dalish and tries to distance himself from other elves; Sera hates Dalish and tries to distance herself from other elves; Briala hates Dalish and only wants to help city elves; Minaeve hates Dalish and wants to be left alone to study; Mhiris makes a cameo from the novel with the most actively hostile clan of the DA universe and gets absolutely no redemption arc in-game. Despite the devs knowing that most of the fanbase already had a sour view of them from previous games and novels.
I mean, the Qunari were hated, and they threw us the intentionally likable Iron Bull (the first Qunari with a greater emotional range than a stoic "No.") The Templars were largely hated, and they threw us Ser Barris and former Templar Cassandra. Even TEVINTER got Dorian, Felix and Calpernia as their positive representative character this game. Dalish? No way, having a character that has one nice thing to say about them would ruin that "All Dalish suck unless a Dalish PC specifically says otherwise" streak this game has going.
But see, would it make sense to have a character to come a long who liked the Dalish? Maybe someone who is fascinated with the culture, but someone outside who personally knows them and likes them? The Dalish are pretty wary of outsiders. I just don't see someone coming along who has an affinity for them. That wouldn't make sense. We'd need an actual Dalish companion, and I don't see that to be very likely as why would a Dalish break away from their clan?
We do get to encounter Dalish clans in all three games, and I don't have anything particularly negative to say about them. I don't buy the argument that the Devs hate the Dalish. I know people have said that, but I don't see that they are particularly harping on them vs everyone else, and even if I did see that, that still doesn't mean the Devs hate them.
It's like people who claim CS Lewis was anti-Muslim because he uses them as villains in the Chronicles of Narnia series. But that's not how writing works. You need a villain, you use what makes sense and drives the story. That doesn't make the writer anti anything. That just makes them a writer. The Dalish may be portrayed negatively (again, I don't see it), but that doesn't make the Devs anti-Dalish. They are just going with the story and staying true to the characters we have.
I've been playing the game with Solas teamed up with Cole or Varric more often. I've come to the conclusion that Solas has been unfair to rest, and not just because he's hiding who he really is. Solas is an intellectual revolutionary who prefers to rub it in without revealing what he knows. If he knows what happened to the dwarves he should have just told Varric instead of prodding him on the state of the dwarven empire. He sneers at Qunari culture, but being an ancient elf he enjoyed the comforts of a golden age while the Qunari had to change themselves to adapt to Par Vollen. The tale that Sten once said about changing ourselves is better advice after hearing Solas' story about the lone survivor. Even if Solas may have been a rebel in the past, it's obvious he yearns for the magnificence of ancient elven culture.
The only Dalish change that annoys me is the three Mage rule, it doesn't make any sense IMO.
People keep harping on that, and I get where they are coming from. But when it comes right down to it, it's just one clan - Minaeve's clan - who's willing to throw out mages. The Inquisitor's clan never would. Merrill's clan never would. Minaeve's situation is a shock because it's so completely different that we've heard before. But that doesn't necessarily make it a retcon or a change. It's just new information to add to everything else. It reinforces that every Dalish is clan is different, and there's no set behavior someone can expect from the Dalish. What we've known before about the Dalish and their need for mages is true, and what we know about Minaeve's clan and possibly other clans (though I think this would be the exception more than the rule) is also true. These two facts don't have to conflict with one another. It's just some Dalish clans are more fearful of the attention they may get for having too many mages than others.
I've been playing the game with Solas teamed up with Cole or Varric more often. I've come to the conclusion that Solas has been unfair to rest, and not just because he's hiding who he really is. Solas is an intellectual revolutionary who prefers to rub it in without revealing what he knows. If he knows what happened to the dwarves he should have just told Varric instead of prodding him on the state of the dwarven empire. He sneers at Qunari culture, but being an ancient elf he enjoyed the comforts of a golden age while the Qunari had to change themselves to adapt to Par Vollen. The tale that Sten once said about changing ourselves is better advice after hearing Solas' story about the lone survivor. Even if Solas may have been a rebel in the past, it's obvious he yearns for the magnificence of ancient elven culture.
Hmmm, so what does he know? I don't want to get into tangles but do we know what he knows and should he reveal it, in what way would that be helpful/unhelpful?
I tend to think on Solas/Varric that he is genuinely probing the opinion of a rather unique individual on his culture and history, I don't know why you think that is wrong.
As to the qunari, he doesn't despise their culture he despises the idea of the Qun, which is part of their culture but not their culture entire. And, actually, the Qun has quite a lot to answer for, but again Solas is happy to get into a dialogue about this...
I imagine you've been to the tomb of the emerald knights? Quote here: https://www.youtube....h?v=X3X3OI0ny8g
Does that sound like an unqualified admirer of Elven culture to you?
People keep harping on that, and I get where they are coming from. But when it comes right down to it, it's just one clan - Minaeve's clan - who's willing to throw out mages. The Inquisitor's clan never would. Merrill's clan never would. Minaeve's situation is a shock because it's so completely different that we've heard before. But that doesn't necessarily make it a retcon or a change. It's just new information to add to everything else. It reinforces that every Dalish is clan is different, and there's no set behavior someone can expect from the Dalish. What we've known before about the Dalish and their need for mages is true, and what we know about Minaeve's clan and possibly other clans (though I think this would be the exception more than the rule) is also true. These two facts don't have to conflict with one another. It's just some Dalish clans are more fearful of the attention they may get for having too many mages than others.
Except it isn't one clan. There's Minaeve, Dalish, and according to Vivienne it wasn't an oddity when dalish mages were taken to the circle after getting kicked out of their clans. And the three-mage rule wasn't out of fear of templars according to Minaeve, it was out of fear of abominations.
It isn't necessarily a retcon, but it does come across as one. Imo it just feels cluncky. It doesn't mesh well with the pre establish lore, considering magic is a large part of dalish culture.
But it is what it is. I like to think it's only a thing in a few clans around Orlais, so i'm hoping this 3-mage rule doesn't pop up too often.
People keep harping on that, and I get where they are coming from. But when it comes right down to it, it's just one clan - Minaeve's clan - who's willing to throw out mages. The Inquisitor's clan never would. Merrill's clan never would. Minaeve's situation is a shock because it's so completely different that we've heard before. But that doesn't necessarily make it a retcon or a change. It's just new information to add to everything else. It reinforces that every Dalish is clan is different, and there's no set behavior someone can expect from the Dalish. What we've known before about the Dalish and their need for mages is true, and what we know about Minaeve's clan and possibly other clans (though I think this would be the exception more than the rule) is also true. These two facts don't have to conflict with one another. It's just some Dalish clans are more fearful of the attention they may get for having too many mages than others.
It still just doesn't add up imo. The Dalish revolve around the idea of bringing back a time when every elf was a mage, deciding to place a cap on how many mages they have is a strange strategy for achieving that. Maybe you could argue that it is only Mineave's clan that does it, but that just makes her keeper is a complete muppet.
Doing it out of fear of Templars I don't buy either, how are Templars supposed to know how many mages a Dalish camp has, when the Hunters don't let them in? Not to mention Templars can't tell Hawke is a mage when s/he is standing two feet infront of them holding a staff. In origins the Dalish are capable of uniting a number of clans to form an army in a few months notice, so its not like they have to wait the full 10 years for the next meeting to ship off the spare mages.
I think the only reason they put it in was to make me lose an argument against Vivienne, and god I hate it when she gets the last word.
Solas is an intellectual revolutionary who prefers to rub it in without revealing what he knows. If he knows what happened to the dwarves he should have just told Varric instead of prodding him on the state of the dwarven empire.
Mary: Now you listen here. I've been telling you since you were four years old, it's okay to be smarter than everybody else but you can't go around pointing it out.
Sheldon: And why not?
Mary: Because people don't like it!
(The Big Bang Theory)
It still just doesn't add up imo. The Dalish revolve around the idea of bringing back a time when every elf was a mage, deciding to place a cap on how many mages they have is a strange strategy for achieving that.
I don't see why we even discuss this. There is one single reason why they made this rule up ad hoc, and that's because they needed some reason to explain why in all the worlds Iron Bull could possibly have a Dalish mage archer in his band of merry misfits. 
I don't see why we even discuss this. There is one single reason why they made this rule up ad hoc, and that's because they needed some reason to explain why in all the worlds Iron Bull could possibly have a Dalish
magearcher in his band of merry misfits.
Yeah. That bit of lore was retconned hard. After two games of the Dalish harping about how precious and rare magic was in the clans, to change it like that was jarring.
Yeah. That bit of lore was retconned hard. After two games of the Dalish harping about how precious and rare magic was in the clans, to change it like that was jarring.
I already agreed when Keith said that, I will agree with you too.
Btw, what's that new avatar? I like it.
I already agreed when Keith said that, I will agree with you too.
Btw, what's that new avatar? I like it.
Samson's bae as far as I can tell.
I can't believe I just said bae.
Modifié par MoonDrummer, 24 avril 2015 - 02:09 .
For some reason I can't automatically produce quotes or paste text. So to Maria13:
Given Solas' background, I get the impression he grew up studying a lot and then rebelled against the Establishment. From what he's said about the other Elven gods at the Temple of Mythal it's implied he rebelled because he knew most of them to be oppressive and selfish. He acts like an Intelligentsia, who prefers higher thought and wishes to modernize society beyond religious servitude. His attitude towards the Emerald Knights, what happened with the Sulevin Blade, can be attributed as a disdain at how Elven people have degraded after the collapse.
The way he talks about the fall of the Dwarven Empire obviously bugs Varric yet Solas keeps bringing it up. That part about them not being able to dream because they're a 'limb' of something greater was insensitive. Mix that in Dagna's vision after examining the Fade remains and we can tell that Solas knows something.
Recently, I played this game with a Qunari warrior Inquisitor. I didn't get the same banter between Solas and the Iron Bull about the Qun. But I do remember it from my previous character plays. So when Solas personally spoke to my Qunari in the bedchamber, he referred to the Qunari as savages held by the strict code of the Qun. Now Solas grew up during a time when the Elves were enjoying immortal lives and great magical prosperity. The Qunari migrated to Par Vollen, possibly having to change themselves from their Kossith roots. Add the fact that they're natural Reavers and it's understandable why they need the Qun to control themselves. Solas acts like he believes with enough knowledge great power can used wisely. It's a huge pitfall to intellectual thought to underestimate the base desires of people.
Samson's bae as far as I can tell.
I can't believe I just said bae.
I'll quote this for you, so it's preserved in case you edit later and claim you had never stooped to that level.
I already agreed when Keith said that, I will agree with you too.
Btw, what's that new avatar? I like it.
Oh..I missed it! WHOOPS! Oh it's my(and Meer's we built her together) Lady Trevelyan! Liz sent it to me as a surprise when I bought a print of hers. You can see my freak out here: http://slayerofkilla...35781/falon-mas
Samson's bae as far as I can tell.
I can't believe I just said bae.
I sort of love that you know this.
Just dropping a few art I found on tumblr.
This comic kind of gave me feels. Just a little...
Solas in his romance card attire.
And that's all. Continue on doing what you're doing. 
EDIT: How did this get to top of the page? I could have sworn... Anyway, have more hooded Solas.
EDIT 2: I couldn't decide which screenshot to use, so have two instead. Spoilered due to size.
For some reason I can't automatically produce quotes or paste text. So to Maria13:
Given Solas' background, I get the impression he grew up studying a lot and then rebelled against the Establishment. From what he's said about the other Elven gods at the Temple of Mythal it's implied he rebelled because he knew most of them to be oppressive and selfish. He acts like an Intelligentsia, who prefers higher thought and wishes to modernize society beyond religious servitude. His attitude towards the Emerald Knights, what happened with the Sulevin Blade, can be attributed as a disdain at how Elven people have degraded after the collapse.
The way he talks about the fall of the Dwarven Empire obviously bugs Varric yet Solas keeps bringing it up. That part about them not being able to dream because they're a 'limb' of something greater was insensitive. Mix that in Dagna's vision after examining the Fade remains and we can tell that Solas knows something.
Recently, I played this game with a Qunari warrior Inquisitor. I didn't get the same banter between Solas and the Iron Bull about the Qun. But I do remember it from my previous character plays. So when Solas personally spoke to my Qunari in the bedchamber, he referred to the Qunari as savages held by the strict code of the Qun. Now Solas grew up during a time when the Elves were enjoying immortal lives and great magical prosperity. The Qunari migrated to Par Vollen, possibly having to change themselves from their Kossith roots. Add the fact that they're natural Reavers and it's understandable why they need the Qun to control themselves. Solas acts like he believes with enough knowledge great power can used wisely. It's a huge pitfall to intellectual thought to underestimate the base desires of people.
Well...yeah. That's sort of his flaw. He's high-minded, often un-yielding in his own opinions(at times) despite saying he's open-minded, and just snobby. Regarding thinking he knows best: that's what he's trying to work on. Pursue wisdom for the sake of it. He has a whole speech to Cassandra abou it. That's not always the case. And he's said time and time again that he's made mistakes because he thought he knew best. I also don't think he underestimates the base desires of people. Actually quite the opposite. He thinks most people are governed by the id and don't think things through enough.
Regarding the Qun: The Qun - as propaganda - tell the Kossith they need the Qun in order to stay in control. This is so false. And Solas calls IB out for it. You play a Vashoth. Someone who has never been under the Qun. They aren't mad loonies and you can't even roleplay as one. From the sounds of it, Adaar's life with their parents actually sounds pretty idyllic. (yes I know you can roleplay and add whatever else in there to make it less so).
That romance card attire.
I wish it were an option of some sort. Not very hobo apostate though.
Still, I often try to dress Solas in nice fabrics that look good on him. Team silk brocade.
That romance card attire.
I wish it were an option of some sort. Not very hobo apostate though.
Still, I often try to dress Solas in nice fabrics that look good on him. Team silk brocade.
Ugh...i buy him nice clothes, expensive silks, beautiful soft leathers and he ****** tears that **** up the second it goes on. cuts the fronts of his boots off so he can rock that apostate hobo cred. it's rude.
Playing Inquisition, and Cole says Solas is "always observing and accepting." Accepting what, Cole? Just taking in new information? Accepting the world as it is? Or accepting the necessity of his duty? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
Still, I often try to dress Solas in nice fabrics that look good on him. Team silk brocade.
White and blue! Though I wish there was a less orange-y red in game so I could make him a red and black Dread Wolf outfit.
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