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Solas Thread - NOW OFFICIALLY MOVED to Cyonan's BSN (link in OP)


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#100476
Giton

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I don't know about the writers. I tend to agree with you. Then again, for the mind-gaming fun, let's assume they didn't mess up but wanted it just like that. Then we have a completely different Solas. One who doesn't actually care so much about truth and self-determination, but who shares information in small doses only, and only if it suits him and/or furthers his plans. And one who uses knowledge as a reward (positive reinforcement hurray) or consolation prize. I do not believe it is the intention, but it does add a very intriguing dimension (considering I'm a sucker for fatalism and twists), whole new possibilities for Mephistopheles villainy.

 

Oh god, now I want to photoshop a Mephisto Solas. But I won't, I can control myself.

 

[snip]

Wait.

 

Mephistolas sounds amazing!


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#100477
Sable Rhapsody

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But I also never liked that it was necessary to romance a character to learn about him (and, in fact, BW promised before the release that they wouldn't do this in DAI). Like I hate that I will never learn about Josie's arranged marriage. Why not? There would have been a thousand ways to do it. Romance content should be love content and not information... but that's my personal feeling, I am aware others see this differently.

 

So...like ME3 Garrus?

 

You get the bottle-shooting scene with him whether you're romancing him or just his bro.  And the deep affection between the characters is still there in all his scenes, it's just platonic in one and romantic in the other.


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#100478
AlleluiaElizabeth

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I don't know what threads you mean, but at least I'm glad she didn't only delete her account because nikki pointed out that Fenris wouldn't appreciate somebody to dedicate his vallaslin to him. That would have been quite the overreaction.
 


You said this already a few times, but what's your opinion if you leave metagaming out of it? You say you could live with it, so you still wouldn't like it?

Imagine Solas were simply your good friend, who tells you how much he respects you and how deeply you impressed him with your actions (which only happens if you supported Solas and showed a sincere interest in his knowledge and opinions). It doesn't seem in character for Solas to keep this information secret. And it doesn't seem fair to such an inquisitor. I just think it isn't Solas to withhold information when somebody is open-minded and willing to learn. I can see how he might not actually remove the vallaslin from any but his lover's face. But telling the meaning, I think that's just something he would do.

Just my opinion/feeling though. Then again, I don't have these "greedy" feelings because I'm not a Solasmancer, maybe that accounts for the different point of view.

Well maybe Solas wasn't planning on telling anyone ever about the vallaslin of Arlathan cus its not important enough to warrant the consequences? If you refuse to have the vallaslin removed, saying that they're a part of you and you hope he can understand, he's immediately ok with it. He doesn't push the point. 

 

I think Solas realizes that, w/e they were in the past, the vallaslin now represent a unified identity among the dalish. Its an important and positive part of their culture, something they wear with pride. It no longer means "slave" to them. I think Solas may not ever have been intending to share what the vasllaslin used to mean unless someone somehow ended up outright asking him, cus he knows both how upsetting it might be to a dalish (see the tearful reaction Lavellan can give) and also that what the vallaslin used to be is not what they are now so its almost a moot point. I think it falls into a category where he'd tell the truth if asked cus that meant the person asking was ready and willing to discuss it. But he's not gonna go around and push what amounts to historical trivia on to people who aren't ready to hear it and whom it would just upset.

 

Of course, he ends up doing this to a romanced Lavellan, but that's cus he chickened out on his *intended* reveal and needed something to say. Her vallaslin was literally staring him in the face at that moment, and his stalled brain was providing precious few alternatives,  so that's what he went with.

 

Otherwise, I think he would have been content never telling Lavellan (or anyone else) about the vallaslin's origins unless they asked him.


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#100479
Siha

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'Budget failure' can describe a lot of what's wrong with DAI (I love this game, I really do, but it could've been so much better than it was).

 
I think so too. In my head, Weekes had it all planned differently. That were supposed to be two different scenes. The vallaslin and the breakup. With a smoother and more convincing buildup. But they had to spend all their resources on the damn shards, so they threw those two scenes together.
 
My argument is shaky, yes, but I still believe so. The last Solas scene is longer than romance scenes usually are. Not quite twice as long, but nearly. Smoothing the breakup would have required more development, maybe like 2 mins more playtime, which would be enough to make two scenes of it. If I am correct, this would also explain the absence of one scene in between; i.e. they combined the last two scenes because they didn't have enough time to polish them both.
 
Now, fight me! :lol:

Well maybe Solas wasn't planning on telling anyone ever about the vallaslin of Arlathan cus its not important enough to warrant the consequences? If you refuse to have the vallaslin removed, saying that they're a part of you and you hope he can understand, he's immediately ok with it. He doesn't push the point.

 
Which was my starting point: just this is so sad. That my desire to recover what is lost is not important enough for him and he only gives it to me as a consolation prize when leaving me.
And Solas is never about pushing anything. He offers knowledge, because he holds it in high regard. But what I do with this knowledge is my own freedom of choice. He won't ever force anything on anybody.
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#100480
MoonDrummer

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No idea why she's actually gone or if other stuff went into her decision, but the posts directed against her in this thread were absolutely hostile and unwelcome.

 

I try to stay out of off topic stuff like that (and this--especially this because aggressive posts are the worst and that's probably what this is going to turn into) so I didn't comment, but I was pretty much appalled. All I ever saw her doing was defend herself as people jumped on her. Her headcanon was insulted and disregarded by people saying Fenris' thoughts on the matter of the color of her elf's vallaslin should matter more than her elf's thoughts on it. When she defended herself by saying that her character wouldn't have known what Fenris thought (not even being hostile enough towards anyone to point out that no one here actually does either), her character was insulted by saying the character should have found a way to take it into account.

 

I think the fact that there were a couple lines from Fae Runner implying Fenris wasn't perfect made everyone feel like they had the right to insult her character. Not that it's on topic for the Solas thread, but I understand the need to defend a character you like (not that Fae Runner pulled Fenris into the conversation in a negative way). What shouldn't be done (in a fair argument) is to pit one headcannon against someone else's headcannon, and then discount the other side because the other side is just making stuff up. Debating theories is fun, but it breaks down if people forget the theories they believe in aren't fact.

I donno, she was pretty aggressive towards people who disagreed with her, if you are going to treat people that way you can't complain when they treat you in a similar fashion. 


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#100481
Armdin

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So...like ME3 Garrus?

 

You get the bottle-shooting scene with him whether you're romancing him or just his bro.  And the deep affection between the characters is still there in all his scenes, it's just platonic in one and romantic in the other.

 

I prefer the unique romance scenes DA gives us. On replays seeing a certain scene so similar but with different dialogue (as mentioned, Garrus date/bro-date scene) is incredibly jarring for me, and it loses a lot of the appeal. Having something there that unlocks something I didn't know about the character I'm romancing or the character I'm playing makes it special.

 

Shoo, all of you, and let me keep my scenes. :P

 

Edit: Basically, what I'm saying is, if every Lavellan got the vallaslin removal/reveal in the same way as the romance, then what would the romance scene have unique to them? A bitter breakup? I don't think I'd like the character anymore if that's all we had.


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#100482
Heidirs

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And I'm positive that the vallaslin thing will be covered in DLC.  Don't forget - it wasn't meant to be revealed in this game, except for by Corypheus during the endgame.  The only reason the revelation is in the game at all is because Solas is a romance.  Which is why I'm sure it was supposed to be foreshowed by Corypheus during the last battle before being picked up by an elven god focused DLC.

 

This is a very good point because remember that Solas originally was not going to be romancable, which means EVERY Lavellan would have gotten the line about slave markings from Corypheus and nothing more. Which seems to indicate that the devs were planning to leave that line there as a hint and then address it later. Romanced Lavellans just got to know a little early.


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#100483
Cee

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Which was my starting point: just this is so sad. That my desire to recover what is lost is not important enough for him and he only gives it to me as a consolation prize when leaving me.
And Solas is never about pushing anything. He offers knowledge, because he holds it in high regard. But what I do with this knowledge is my own freedom of choice. He won't ever force anything on anybody.

 

It's no "consolation prize" though. He tells her before coming to the realization that he has to break things off before he betrays himself and his goals.


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#100484
Giton

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He could have very well told friend Lavellans about the vallaslin. It is not about denigrating the romance, but allowing the other characters to share in that information. It could have been done in a way that is different for romanced inquisitors. I do not see how a character that is so invested in choice and freedom would keep that information from a person he respects and cares for. I don't see it. 


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#100485
Siha

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It's no "consolation prize" though. He tells her before coming to the realization that he has to break things off before he betrays himself and his goals.

 
It is considering that he wanted to be honest about himself and decides to at least be honest about her culture if he can't give her the bigger prize.

He could have very well told friend Lavellans about the vallaslin. It is not about denigrating the romance, but allowing the other characters to share in that information. It could have been done in a way that is different for romanced inquisitors. I do not see how a character that so so invested in choice and freedom would keep that information from a person he respects and cares for. I don't see it.

 
I guess we're just on the same "free access to knowledge for everybody" train. A bloody hell, it would all be easier if Thedas had proper internet access.
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#100486
Cee

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This is a very good point because remember that Solas originally was not going to be romancable, which means EVERY Lavellan would have gotten the line about slave markings from Corypheus and nothing more. Which seems to indicate that the devs were planning to leave that line there as a hint and then address it later. Romanced Lavellans just got to know a little early.

 

 

If only we could spy on the writers' planning meetings.


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#100487
AlleluiaElizabeth

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Which was my starting point: just this is so sad. That my desire to recover what is lost is not important enough for him and he only gives it to me as a consolation prize when leaving me.
And Solas is never about pushing anything. He offers knowledge, because he holds it in high regard. But what I do with this knowledge is my own freedom of choice. He won't ever force anything on anybody.

 

Well like I said, I think if you knew enough to ask him the question, he *would* reveal what the vallaslin were. Totally good with you wanting to know ancient facts, more power to you, etc. Lavellan's seeking truth *is* important to him.

 

Its just that, the fact that vallaslin used to be slave marks thousands of years ago isn't worth just volunteering without prompting. It has too much potential to upset and anger people who consider vallaslin an important part of their culture in the here and now. Its not worth it. Whatever they were before, they are now a sign of pride. Why rock that boat for people who aren't even looking for him to do so?


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#100488
Armdin

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Its just that, the fact that vallaslin used to be slave marks thousands of years ago isn't worth just volunteering without prompting. It has too much potential to upset and anger people who consider vallaslin an important part of their culture in the here and now. Its not worth it. Whatever they were before, they are now a sign of pride. Why rock that boat for people who aren't even looking for him to do so?

 

The vallaslin's true origins could very well be what turned him off from other Dalish, and be one of the (possible) many things he offered to share with the groups he did approach. He learned his lessons and, as you say, if they don't ask, don't tell.


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#100489
Heidirs

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From the way it is presented in game, Solas might actually seem to care more for a romanced Inquisitor than a friendly one; it says something a touch negative about the character that a woman he loves deserves to know more about something of such cultural importance than one he deeply respected.

 

This point has been brought up before and it seriously bugs me. I don't tell my best friends everything I tell my husband. I don't tell my husband everything I tell my best friends. Does that mean I care about one group more or less than I do the other? Of course not. As has already been stated, people say different things to their SO's than they do their friends. But, all things considered, this is beside the point. 

 

Consider for a moment that Solas was not supposed to be romancable. He would have come to respect and care for every Lavellan Inquisitor and he would not have explained about the Vallisin to any of them. Why? There can be tons of reasons. For one, he's already had dealings with the Dalish and those ended badly. He may come to respect your Lavellan, but I still don't think he would have thought it a good idea to come out directly and say, "Hey, just in case you didn't know, you have slave markings on your face." 

 

EDIT: to add these awesome quotes

Well like I said, I think if you knew enough to ask him the question, he *would* reveal what the vallaslin were. Totally good with you wanting to know ancient facts, more power to you, etc. Lavellan's seeking truth *is* important to him.

 

Its just that, the fact that vallaslin used to be slave marks thousands of years ago isn't worth just volunteering without prompting. It has too much potential to upset and anger people who consider vallaslin an important part of their culture in the here and now. Its not worth it. Whatever they were before, they are now a sign of pride. Why rock that boat for people who aren't even looking for him to do so?

The vallaslin's true origins could very well be what turned him off from other Dalish, and be one of the (possible) many things he offered to share with the groups he did approach. He learned his lessons and, as you say, if they don't ask, don't tell.

 

Also consider, in the romance, Solas doesn't tell a romanced Lavellan about the Vallisin out of respect or love. In fact, if he hadn't backed out of telling her who he was, it's likely he would have never told her as it was likely something he hadn't intended to share.

 

Of course, he ends up doing this to a romanced Lavellan, but that's cus he chickened out on his *intended* reveal and needed something to say. Her vallaslin was literally staring him in the face at that moment, and his stalled brain was providing precious few alternatives,  so that's what he went with.

 

I have to agree with this. Solas needs to tell her something, fast, and her Vallaslin is right there. That's why he tells her. Not because he respects her or loves her, but because he needs something to say and that was the first thing that comes to mind.

 

He could have very well told friend Lavellans about the vallaslin. It is not about denigrating the romance, but allowing the other characters to share in that information. It could have been done in a way that is different for romanced inquisitors. I do not see how a character that so so invested in choice and freedom would keep that information from a person he respects and cares for. I don't see it. 

 

Just quoting you to reiterate everything above.

 

Maybe the question shouldn't be "Why would he tell a romanced Lavellan but not a respected Lavellan?" but instead be "Why wouldn't he tell anyone at all?" because I don't believe he ever intended to tell her.


Modifié par Heidirs, 06 mai 2015 - 07:46 .

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#100490
legbamel

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I am so tempted to repost the WHAT'S UP NERDS, UR ALL WRONG set again, but I just did that a few pages ago.
 
As far as that, no, it's prudent, given just how most Dalish (especially) see Fen'Harel, as well as all the legends, not to come out and say it directly. And then with his actions indirectly responsible for this world threatening sky tear?
 
He could've merely claimed to be ancient, but that would've also led to questions. It gives him a plausible way of denying certain things and obscuring things to present himself as Solas.
 
And taking on the name of Solas is significant in itself, as a bit of a reminder.

I do find it curious that he complains about how the clans wouldn't listen to him but then , when he has a person who will, he chooses not to tell him or her anything outside the bfeak-up conversation.
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#100491
Illyria

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This is a very good point because remember that Solas originally was not going to be romancable, which means EVERY Lavellan would have gotten the line about slave markings from Corypheus and nothing more. Which seems to indicate that the devs were planning to leave that line there as a hint and then address it later. Romanced Lavellans just got to know a little early.

 

Exactly.  This is why I'm sure that the vallaslin reveal was only included because Solas became a romance.



#100492
freelovefreeway

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It is considering that he wanted to be honest about himself and decides to at least be honest about her culture if he can't give her the bigger prize.

 
I guess we're just on the same "free access to knowledge for everybody" train. A bloody hell, it would all be easier if Thedas had proper internet access.

 

I don't think he considers it a prize or a gift. It's just another lie--one of those Solas versions of lies that are actually enlightening pieces of truth which helps distract us to the fact that it wasn't at all what he was going to say/wants to keep hidden.

 

This is a very good point because remember that Solas originally was not going to be romancable, which means EVERY Lavellan would have gotten the line about slave markings from Corypheus and nothing more. Which seems to indicate that the devs were planning to leave that line there as a hint and then address it later. Romanced Lavellans just got to know a little early.

 

We don't really know when that line was recorded compared to when the romance was added, do we? But it COULD be the case...which would be excellent.


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#100493
CapricornSun

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I hate to interrupt, but I'll just be leaving some art here before I go to bed. You all play nice now, okay? (<-- EDIT: To all the people offended by this... I'm sorry?  :blink:)

 

Beautiful Solavellan artwork.

 

Cuddles in bed.

 

Yet another comic about that thing we all do in Skyhold. :P

 

"We were all young once."

 

Solas, Lavellan, and Dorian do yoga.

 

"...It went okay..."

After the breakup scene. (Poor Solas. :mellow: )


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#100494
Illyria

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I hate to interrupt, but I'll just be leaving some art here before I go to bed. You all play nice now, okay? 


Solas, Lavellan, and Dorian do yoga.

 

This one makes me think that they did their yoga in Solas' room in the library.  Dorian joins in after a few days of getting fed up with the constant flirting that goes on during the yoga.  A few days later Leliana joins in.  The yoga sessions prompty stop.


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#100495
Abelas Forever!

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I never thought that it's out of the character for Solas to not tell non-romanced Lavellans about the Vallaslin. I always see him in a way that he is quite distant and he wants to be that way because who he is and what he has done. Only romanced Lavellan gets closer to him but he still doesn't tell her everything which is of course a huge problem but understandable.

 

If Solas would have told everybody about the Vallaslin then how would have that scene worked? I mean. Would he have told the same thing in that scene to romanced Lavellan and then at Skyhold to friend Lavellans and then removed the Vallaslin from friend Lavellans? For me it sounds like that solution wouldn't have worked very well because then there would have been two different scenes with the same thing and if he had told everybody about the Vallaslin at Skyhold then what would he have told to romanced Lavellan at that place? Just break-up ? :crying:

 

I was a little bit disappointed when I found out that Garrus goes shooting with everybody. I thought that it was a date just for romanced Shepard but it wasn't :(


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#100496
BoscoBread

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He could have very well told friend Lavellans about the vallaslin. It is not about denigrating the romance, but allowing the other characters to share in that information. It could have been done in a way that is different for romanced inquisitors. I do not see how a character that is so invested in choice and freedom would keep that information from a person he respects and cares for. I don't see it. 

Same.  Yes. Lovers share special things. But I don't see how such a big cultural truth should be held special only for a romanced Lavellan. There could have been something else.  I don't know what, I'm not the writer. But it could have been something else. Again this romance was written in a weekend.  It's amazing that in such a short amount of time it was so affecting, but it was still written and implemented in a very short amount of time.  That may have been something that I would argue was not given a great amount of thought {EDIT: As much thought it deserved given what an impact it as on a Dalish character.  For me this truth was a pretty big deal and my meta on it is pretty important for me}.

 

Also, me stating this, does not take away from the fact that it was a very lovely and emotional scene. It is. It is. But it could have been emotional and lovely for all Lavellans. 


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#100497
Illyria

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I never thought that it's out of the character for Solas to not tell non-romanced Lavellans about the Vallaslin. I always see him in a way that he is quite distant and he wants to be that way because who he is and what he has done. Only romanced Lavellan gets closer to him but he still doesn't tell her everything which is of course a huge problem but understandable.

 

If Solas would have told everybody about the Vallaslin then how would have that scene worked? I mean. Would he have told the same thing in that scene to romanced Lavellan and then at Skyhold to friend Lavellans and then removed the Vallaslin from friend Lavellans? For me it sounds like that solution wouldn't have worked very well because then there would have been two different scenes with the same thing and if he had told everybody about the Vallaslin at Skyhold then what would he have told to romanced Lavellan at that place? Just break-up ? :crying:

 

I was a little bit disappointed when I found out that Garrus goes shooting with everybody. I thought that it was a date just for romanced Shepard but it wasn't :(

 

You do get an awesome tango scene, though.  A non-romanced Shepard plays wingman for him.


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#100498
Armdin

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Also, me stating this, does not take away from the fact that it was a very lovely and emotional scene. It is. It is. But it could have been emotional and lovely for all Lavellans. 

 

You don't think it would have taken away from the romance at all? Saying the romance could have gotten other scenes or had it done differently aside. I'm thinking purely from what we got as you said in the above paragraph.



#100499
AlleluiaElizabeth

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The vallaslin's true origins could very well be what turned him off from other Dalish, and be one of the (possible) many things he offered to share with the groups he did approach. He learned his lessons and, as you say, if they don't ask, don't tell.

It wouldn't suprise me if that happened. I have to imagine that the fact these people have slave markings on their faces was one of the very first things Solas noticed about them. (In fact, I'd imagine its likely not something he can easily look past and I can imagine him staring at the vallaslin quite a bit and having to make a conscious effort to stop.) And he likely made the mistake of trying to talk about them, maybe as an example of the ancient knowledge he claimed he could share with the People.

 

And then he found out just how touchy a subject that that aspect of Dalish culture was. lol 


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#100500
Cee

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 A non-romanced Shepard plays wingman for him.

 

This was the most adorably awkward thing ever. <3


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