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[Heidirs]

I like to think of Solas and the trying to teach Dalish clans the truth more like this...
 

Trying to live among Dalish after thousands of years must have been difficult...

 

This is a beautiful comparison. Thank you for making my day.

[Sifr]

"Also my orb did the Thing."

 

Meanwhile, Anders is quietly looking smug with himself;

 

"And suddenly I don't look quite so much like the worst boyfriend this series has seen, huh? I mean, yet I blew up a church and started a rebellion, but that's not in the same league as Deicide and nearly causing the end of the world, because I willingly gave my Orb to a supervillain. "Oopsy, butterfingers"... doesn't cover that!"

[Sable Rhapsody]

Honestly have a headcanon that Cullen is in love with Trevelyan/Lavellan regardless if she romances him or not. Cus you can still choose all the flirts with him in the chess match, the lyrium addiction scene, etc, even when you haven't actually engaged in a romance with him and are even actively with someone else. And he's cool with initiating a romance with you even in the last act of the game. And he even says he's wanted to kiss you for "longer than he'd like to admit." when you finally do.

 

Ooof.  Glad my Lavellan never flirted with him, then.  Except the one early flirt where you can ask if templars are celibate.  Because 1) she honestly doesn't know and 2) making Cullen feel awkward has been a storied past-time of mine since DA:O 

 

Meanwhile, Anders is quietly looking smug with himself;

 

"And suddenly I don't look quite so much like the worst boyfriend this series has seen, huh? I mean, yet I blew up a church and started a rebellion, but that's not in the same league as Deicide and nearly causing the end of the world, because I willingly gave my Orb to a supervillain. "Oopsy, butterfingers"... doesn't cover that!"

 

Eh.  IMO Anders still takes the Worst Boyfriend crown by a landslide 

[Armdin]

Ooof.  Glad my Lavellan never flirted with him, then.  Except the one early flirt where you can ask if templars are celibate.  Because 1) she honestly doesn't know and 2) making Cullen feel awkward has been a storied past-time of mine since DA:O 

 

Honestly, I always choose that flirt option by accident.

Investigate... Investigate... Investigate... Flirt- ****! Sorry Cullen. D:

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

Ooof.  Glad my Lavellan never flirted with him, then.  Except the one early flirt where you can ask if templars are celibate.  Because 1) she honestly doesn't know and 2) making Cullen feel awkward has been a storied past-time of mine since DA:O 

 

 

Eh.  IMO Anders still takes the Worst Boyfriend crown by a landslide 

lol Well, I didn't save any of the flirting... >_> Except the one response during the lyrium addiction scene. That was the caring and tender response I felt even as a friend I'd give in that situation. I don't care if it was marked a flirt, the dialogue itself isn't romance exclusive, imo. lol

[Sifr]

Eh.  IMO Anders still takes the Worst Boyfriend crown by a landslide 

 

Yeah, but at least we can say that the destruction of the Chantry went according to plan for Anders.

 

If accidentally causing the fall of Elven civilisation (by getting rid of their Gods), as well as causing a near-apocalypse (by giving Corypheus his Orb) are what happens when Fen'Harel makes a little oops, what does a big oops look like?

 

Solas, as much as we love him, he is kinda Accidentally Apocalyptic.

 

[Giton]

Meanwhile, Anders is quietly looking smug with himself;

 

"And suddenly I don't look quite so much like the worst boyfriend this series has seen, huh? I mean, yet I blew up a church and started a rebellion, but that's not in the same league as Deicide and nearly causing the end of the world, because I willingly gave my Orb to a supervillain. "Oopsy, butterfingers"... doesn't cover that!"

To be fair, Cory is pretty hot. Solas just got nervous in front of his magisterial magisterness.

 

Cory: The orb?

Solas: Yes? I mean what about it?

[Cory lifts up his robes, revealing a hint of stocking]

Solas: I think you should be the one to wield the orb!

 

Solas does mention that he thought no Tevinter magister could actually have the acumen to use the orb . . . vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas.

[Abelas Forever!]

Yeah, but at least we can say that the destruction of the Chantry went according to plan for Anders.

 

If accidentally causing the fall of Elven civilisation (by getting rid of their Gods), as well as causing a near-apocalypse (by giving Corypheus his Orb) are what happens when Fen'Harel makes a little oops, what does a big oops look like?

 

Solas... he's Accidentally Apocalyptic!

 

Poor Solas. I want to hug him.

[Heidirs]

 Personally, from what I have gleaned about his character, if he intended not to share this information--I would find that problematic. He withholds information and choice. That seems out of character. For me.

 

Honestly, I think there's a whole giant list of things Solas could tell the Inquisitor about how the Dalish culture is wrong and never says, not just the Valasin. But he doesn't say these things because he's done that before and it didn't go over well. I don't see it as him deliberately withholding information and choice, just him deciding that it's not worth the fight at this point. He's offered his information before and it turned out to be more trouble than it was worth. And if you get his "you don't care about elves" dialogue, he admits to having given up that particular battle.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Honestly, I always choose that flirt option by accident.

Investigate... Investigate... Investigate... Flirt- ****! Sorry Cullen. D:

 

I'm out of likes, so have a

 

My Lavellan was actually scared of Cullen for a while.  She was a little skittish around everyone at Haven since they basically boiled down to a bunch of strange, punchy humans who thought she was the messiah.  Didn't get off to the best start.  But where Cass and Josie go out of their way to put you a bit more at ease, Leliana and Cullen are all business from the start.  So it took my Lavellan a while to warm up to them.

[Armdin]

He withholds information and choice. That seems out of character. For me.

 

The character that spends the whole game omitting who he is seemed OOC at that moment to you? Okay.

[laurelinvanyar]

I think a lot of our arguments about this (although I dislike using that word because this is a very pleasnt debate) comes from whether or not your view this reveal as being nessessary.  What Solas is revealing is not the most pleasnt thing.  It's not something a lot of Dalish are going to want to hear (*insert WHAT UP NERDS image here*).  The markings now mean freedom.  Despite the fact that every clan is different they have this one thing in common.  Solas tells his girlfriend because it's important to him that the woman he loves has the choice to choose whether or not she keeps the vallaslin.  A friend doesn't get this for many reasons.  Solas may not feel comfortable telling them something that so utterly destorys everything they've been raised to believe.  It may just simply be because Solas doesn't care about them as much.

This part right here is my entire problem with this whole scenario. This is a character who values freedom of thought, knowledge for knowledge's sake, curiosity, and open mindedness in his lover AND his friend. By the end of the game, in order to have a very high approval rating as just his friend you have repeatedly shown all these traits. 

 

The idea that Solas who so values the pursuit of knowledge would then only give that very same knowledge to his lover and not to someone he greatly respects is...odd to me. By all means, tie the scene to a very high approval rating. Only have him divulge this very earth-shattering secret to someone who has proven willing to listen. Although I would debate even that, considering he disapproves of little lies to protect the feelings of others and approves of even hurtful truths. 

 

But I put all of this down to the writing/budget. The "special" romance scene could have been something else. 

 

Or alternatively, he never intended to tell any Lavellan. Or maybe he intended to tell all Lavellans later, but only tells a love interest early in a moment of panic. 

 

I just don't think it's a matter of "Well, he just doesn't like you enough."

[Cee]

Yeah, but at least we can say that the destruction of the Chantry went according to plan for Anders.

 

If accidentally causing the fall of Elven civilisation (by getting rid of their Gods), as well as causing a near-apocalypse (by giving Corypheus his Orb) are what happens when Fen'Harel makes a little oops, what does a big oops look like?

 

Solas, as much as we love him, he is kinda Accidentally Apocalyptic.

 

 

I am out of likes *kicks board* but I enjoyed this assessment.
 

[Illyria]

Eh.  IMO Anders still takes the Worst Boyfriend crown by a landslide 

 

Yup.

[Giton]

Honestly, I think there's a whole giant list of things Solas could tell the Inquisitor about how the Dalish culture is wrong and never says, not just the Valasin. But he doesn't say these things because he's done that before and it didn't go over well. I don't see it as him deliberately withholding information and choice, just him deciding that it's not worth the fight at this point. He's offered his information before and it turned out to be more trouble than it was worth. And if you get his "you don't care about elves" dialogue, he admits to having given up that particular battle.

I find this reading of the character, and we are all entitled to our readings, extremely problematic. Solas . . . gives up. And that's it? His opinion of the Dalish as a monolithic entity stands? He doesn't find the inquisitor worthy of the information because he is deciding his or her reaction ahead of time?

[Heidirs]

Honestly have a headcanon that Cullen is in love with Trevelyan/Lavellan regardless if she romances him or not. Cus you can still choose all the flirts with him in the chess match, the lyrium addiction scene, etc, even when you haven't actually engaged in a romance with him and are even actively with someone else. And he's cool with initiating a romance with you even in the last act of the game. And he even says he's wanted to kiss you for "longer than he'd like to admit." when you finally do.

 

You can flirt with Iron Bull to the end too, I think.

 

I always do his flirt options because I like them better. I feel they are closer to what my Lavellan would say.

[Armdin]

Or alternatively, he never intended to tell any Lavellan. Or maybe he intended to tell all Lavellans later, but only tells a love interest early in a moment of panic.

We know that. Not in the game perhaps. But we do know it.

[Giton]

The character that spends the whole game omitting who he is seemed OOC at that moment to you? Okay.

Thinking about the context is key here. This is not information that would sabotage his identity. It is information that is in context with the other types of information that he gives you . . . throughout the game. Throughout the entire game, through his conversations with your character and the companions, we know he values freedom and knowledge and making informed decisions. So yes, color me batty that I find it out of character. 

[Cee]

I'm out of likes, so have a

 

My Lavellan was actually scared of Cullen for a while.  She was a little skittish around everyone at Haven since they basically boiled down to a bunch of strange, punchy humans who thought she was the messiah.  Didn't get off to the best start.  But where Cass and Josie go out of their way to put you a bit more at ease, Leliana and Cullen are all business from the start.  So it took my Lavellan a while to warm up to them.

 

Leliana in particular, though Cullen was as well. In conversation, he's not so much at first. But my Lavellan took the mountain pass and met Cullen later at Haven.

 

Leliana wanting to execute her agent....that was....a moment. It was the first time my Lavellan really felt like 'no, this is too much, I'm going to speak up'.

 

And as a player, I'm glad I did, since Leliana became Divine like I wanted.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I always do his flirt options because I like them better. I feel they are closer to what my Lavellan would say.

 

I was so paranoid of messing up the romance my first time through that I barely flirted with anyone other than Solas and occasionally Dorian.  Clearly I need to flirt more when I replay her since no one seems to ninja other than Blackwall.  And that's...never gonna happen in this Age or any other.

 

ToP again: Not Solas, but relevant a page or two ago 

 

Spoiler

[laurelinvanyar]

We know that. Not in the game perhaps. But we do know it.

Um...no? We know he never intended to tell a romanced Lavellan at that moment. We don't know if/when he actually did intend to tell her or a non-romanced Lavellan about the vallaslin.

[Illyria]

This part right here is my entire problem with this whole scenario. This is a character who values freedom of thought, knowledge for knowledge's sake, curiosity, and open mindedness in his lover AND his friend. By the end of the game, in order to have a very high approval rating as just his friend you have repeatedly shown all these traits. 

 

The idea that Solas who so values the pursuit of knowledge would then only give that very same knowledge to his lover and not to someone he greatly respects is...odd to me. By all means, tie the scene to a very high approval rating. Only have him divulge this very earth-shattering secret to someone who has proven willing to listen. Although I would debate even that, considering he disapproves of little lies to protect the feelings of others and approves of even hurtful truths. 

 

But I put all of this down to the writing/budget. The "special" romance scene could have been something else. 

 

Or alternatively, he never intended to tell any Lavellan. Or maybe he intended to tell all Lavellans later, but only tells a love interest early in a moment of panic. 

 

I just don't think it's a matter of "Well, he just doesn't like you enough."

 

I was being facetious there.  Doesn't always come accross well online.

 

But you have actually highlighted a reason why he doesn't tell friend!Lavellan:

 

'Only have him divulge this very earth-shattering secret to someone who has proven willing to listen'

 

Solas has trust issues and his only friends for the last goodness knows how many thousands of years have been spirits.  Since he woke up he's been shunned by Dalish clans and treated as an apostate and second class citzen.  He has really bad trust issues.

 

And he has no idea how Lavellan will react to this news.  Solas is very careful in what he tells people and the only people he lets close are Cole and his girlfriend.  The secret he has is huge.  It could utterly destory some Dalish because it takes away everything they believe in.  Solas shares it with Lavellan because he trusts her.  Because he wants her to know the truth about himself.  Maybe that seems harsh for a Lavellan who is only a friend but - here's the important part - they are only a friend.  I consider this to be perfectly in character for a man who has massive trust issues and a habit of being very careful with what he tells people.

 

tl;dr:  I have a lot of thoughts on this subject.  Some of them are starting to make sense.

[Armdin]

Um...no? We know he never intended to tell a romanced Lavellan at that moment. We don't know if/when he actually did intend to tell her or a non-romanced Lavellan about the vallaslin.

 

That's true.

Personally I think he did intend to once he got his orb back, but that went downhill quickly. x) No evidence on that, just what I think he'd do.

[Heidirs]

I find this reading of the character, and we are all entitled to our readings, extremely problematic. Solas . . . gives up. And that's it? His opinion of the Dalish as a monolithic entity stands? He doesn't find the inquisitor worthy of the information because he is deciding his or her reaction ahead of time?

 

He does have that conversation on the balcony where he admits the Inquisitor surprised him and goes on to say all these negative things he expected from the Dalish. So, I would say, yes, he did decide ahead of time that the Inquisitor would be the same as everyone else. 

 

Now, he does grow to care for and respect the Inquisitor. But I believe his prior opinion of the Dalish still stands. He tells Lavellan that she's unique and approves if you choose the dialogue option that the Dalish didn't make you who you are - that you did that yourself. I believe he holds her as an exception, not evidence that he's been wrong.

 

And while he does come to care greatly for Lavellan, she still holds a Dalish background and Dalish beliefs and values. As much as he might come to respect her and see her as different, I don't believe he ever forgets her origins and his experience with the Dalish. I don't think he believes anything good would come out of telling her everything that's wrong with what she believes in. And he's constantly saying that she "surprises" him in her attitudes and her willingness to learn from him. I think a part of him still expects her to shut him down.

[nikki-tikki]

I was being facetious there.  Doesn't always come accross well online.

 

But you have actually highlighted a reason why he doesn't tell friend!Lavellan:

 

'Only have him divulge this very earth-shattering secret to someone who has proven willing to listen'

 

Solas has trust issues and his only friends for the last goodness knows how many thousands of years have been spirits.  Since he woke up he's been shunned by Dalish clans and treated as an apostate and second class citzen.  He has really bad trust issues.

 

And he has no idea how Lavellan will react to this news.  Solas is very careful in what he tells people and the only people he lets close are Cole and his girlfriend.  The secret he has is huge.  It could utterly destory some Dalish because it takes away everything they believe in.  Solas shares it with Lavellan because he trusts her.  Because he wants her to know the truth about himself.  Maybe that seems harsh for a Lavellan who is only a friend but - here's the important part - they are only a friend.

 

tl;dr:  I have a lot of thoughts on this subject.  Some of them are starting to make sense.

 

I don't think Solas has trust issues. He's an elven god. I think he just likes to choose his players carefully. He doesn't like to endanger people. The fact that the Dalish don't listen to him would probably make him a bit angry, but why should that make him have trust issues? He's not weak and timid. 

 

But if Cole is just a friend...why should he share his secrets that he doesn't tell Lavellan with him?