Agreed! The egg head can stay, but wolf pelts ... yes.Part of me kind of hopes that when we do find Solas, he'll be all dressed in wolf skins like in that picture....
I remember when people started swarming a Rome II mod for the Socii having green swastikas on their shields.
I think there was US Army force from the Southwest that used swastikas as a symbol thanks to its meaning to the First Nations people. They, um, ripped them off on the ride over to Britain for the Normandy Invasion.
Coincidentally, Arlathan and its use as a slave symbol is about as far back to the modern Dalish as the actual Neolithic times are to us. And I'm willing to bet that the symbols were all over the place, in temples and tapestries and mosaics, not just slave brands. They were the symbols of the gods, after all. The Dalish, lacking temples, just put it on their face. Very practical.
That, and the lovely shade of purple, is why my Lavellan kept her vallaslin.
Oooh, welcome back! 
I predicted this. 
We've lost some people and the theory crafting has died down a little, but it's only to expected after the game has been out for half a year.
The initial digestion phase is just ending but with each passing month there are so many new replays that theory crafting will sooooooar now!
So, my catch-up thoughts:
Solas and Cole. I thought it was pretty suspicious that Solas could do that blocking Cole out trick in the first place and I wondered why we weren't given a conversation interrupt to ask Solas how he did that. There is a lot that we are asked to take for granted regarding his knowledge and unknown skills. In hindsight, it makes sense, but the fact that we couldn't ask about his "spirit magic" (I'm assuming it was spirit magic related at the very least) drew attention to it. After he leaves makes it even more suspicious, but at least there we're already aware of the situation, so it ruins nothing plot-wise.
Putting that aside, there's the question of how this is in keeping with his character: I think it can still fit despite his disposition. His affection for spirits and his obvious attachment to freedom of will and all of that do not necessarily come into conflict with his act with Cole. I agree with the sentiment that in this particular case blanking Cole's memory can be viewed as an act of compassion, partly because it is so important in terms of keeping his secret from the Inquisition. Thinking about the guaranteed backlash that a revelation of his identity would cause, I think in Solas' mind it would have caused everyone much, much more harm for him to be exposed than if he keeps everyone in the dark, thus he has to cover his bases and his action is justified. As it's been pointed out, wiping memory sometimes helps, just as one might get rid of negative thought patterns to alter the course of their life - it is not a subjugation of free will, rather a therapeutic act, which I think is at the heart of what Cole does.
Also, it's true that we don't have any substantial confirmation that what actually happened was what we think happened, we're going on very slim information that mostly comes from Cole himself, who has a peculiar way of expressing what he sees in the world to begin with; point being, there's nothing to say that Solas didn't use a completely benign magic on Cole to keep him (temporarily or permanently) away from the dangerous things Cole might have been exposed to in his mind, thus it's not a stretch to think that Solas did indeed act completely in-character.
Solas and the Orb. Alright! This is a nice subject to speculate about. I have been wondering about this whole "Corypheus unlocking the orb and dying" plan that we assume as one of the most likely outcomes that Solas tried to orchestrate and this ties in with his regard for "the people."
Firstly, I'm not entirely convinced that Solas means elves when he says "the people;" in fact, I'm not even sure that he is referring to ancient elves. It is true that his demeanor seems to shift throughout the game and after the Arbor Wilds it seems like he is genuinely moved by the ancient elves we encounter in an odd fashion, but I think that this isn't the whole truth. I think that Solas has been clinging to an image of who the "people" were way back when, before he did whatever he did to the Elvhen gods, etc., which might be related to the "people" known as gods to the Elvhen, or the Elvhen themselves or even including the "people" of all Thedas, including dwarves and humans. His lack of concern for modern elves would indicate that he does not feel on an equal footing with them, they are not his people really. So in reality, I would say that Solas never stopped caring, yet he never grew to care for the modern "people." Remember, he wanted to unlock the foci before he joins the Inquisition, before he has any chance to revise his opinion about the Dalish and the city elves, i.e. whatever his plan regarding helping "the people" predates all of these events.
Secondly, isn't it odd that Solas didn't expect Corypheus to live through trying to unlock the foci? Not to mention the fact that I think it very strange how the foci gets to Corypheus in the first place - was Solas aware of the fact, then, that the Grey Wardens had been keeping an ancient magister locked up? Did he learn about his escape from those depths and his apparent immortality, since Hawke's destruction of him didn't work? When Corypheus has such power already, how is it possible that Solas would not suspect that he has the knowledge and willpower to unlock the foci and survive?
So, the fact that Solas seems so surprised by how things turned out would indicate to me that he was unaware of Corypheus' true nature, which means that he could not have planned for him to "stumble across" the foci or something like that. Rather, it may be that Solas was simply seeking someone - anyone - with the right amount of ambition and ignorance to attempt to unlock the powers of an ancient elven artifact.
Another thing to consider: if Solas was aware of who Corypheus was, how is Solas surprised at his almost-success when he already knows about what ancient Tevinter magisters managed to achieve by entering the Fade and causing the Blights? Even if he was asleep at the time, surely he must have realized that those magisters possessed strength and knowledge that is comparable to what he and the other "gods" possessed when they became gods if they were able to do such a thing.
Finally, why did Solas need the foci unlocked and how did it become locked in the first place? I think this a particularly interesting question. I think it clear that Solas wants to undo what he did. He locked the gods away and then he realized centuries later that he made a huge mistake with his little liberation plan that caused the downfall of the Elvhen among other things.
My theory is this: he locked the foci himself, not just his own but that of all the gods, just so that no one could abuse that kind of power ever again. It fits with his revolutionary attitude. He locked it in a way that no one, not even himself, could unlock it again, or perhaps keyed it so that the foci belonging to the individual gods could not be opened by the hand that the power belongs to, i.e. Solas cannot open the Fen'Harel foci, but someone else could. (Like a plan B that he never actually intended using.)
In short, I think this is a case of locking your keys in the car so to speak. He wanted to get rid of both the opportunity and the temptation and now realizes that this is the only way he can get himself out of this fix after all, i.e. he has to reverse-engineer his own plan. If he made such a contingency plan such as locking himself out on purpose, then he would have started to hunt for someone who has the willingness to do what must be done, and I'll bet that he planned on providing just enough information so that the person doing the unlocking would have the right skill to open it, if not actually use it. The fact that Corypheus pops up is like divine misfortune combined with a blessing: the orb is unlocked, but the price is too high and it backfires anyway.
The DA2 cast in general get fandom hate for being their crazy selves. Which I think is a shame, because the polarizing nature of the characters is what I love about them.
The worst characters aren't the ones that inspire hate. The worst characters are the ones that get a "meh" in response. Characters that inspire extremes of emotion are IMO the most interesting ones, and it's perfectly possible to hate a character, and still appreciate their power as a character. Casavir from NWN2, for instance, though that's an Obsidian game. F***ing hate that guy. Still think he's a great character.
I agree with this profusely. (And I hated Casavir, too, haha, for all the right reasons!)
This is why I think Anders is one of the BEST characters! It's such an epic and symbolic muddle in that man's head, it's simply fascinating. If I ever get around to posting my character analysis article somewhere I'd get back to this subject.
*shuts up now*
I agree with this profusely. (And I hated Casavir, too, haha, for all the right reasons!)
Casavir was awful. Like Cullen, but with a massive wedgie. No that Bishop was any better, and when the two started fighting over my happily-single-but-pining-for-Sand character, I was just done with the lot of them and wished there had been an opportunity to set the keep on fire. With them inside.
Casavir was awful. Like Cullen, but with a massive wedgie. No that Bishop was any better, and when the two started fighting over my happily-single-but-pining-for-Sand character, I was just done with the lot of them and wished there had been an opportunity to set the keep on fire. With them inside.
I was so intrigued with the fact that they initially planned to have Bishop as a legit romance option, that would have been really great to explore considering what a dark character he is - good drama there! Sand, too, it would have been unconventional and interesting; sigh, well, at least there are tons of mods out there that give you the illusion of a full-blown romance. It's kind of disenchanting, though, especially without VO's. In NWN it passed just fine since most of the dialogue was text-based anyway, but in NWN2 it just made it awkward.
I even installed a full-VO mod for a Bishop romance once and it was... painful. And I couldn't get rid of it for the life of me.
Yep... we should have just set the keep on fire. Ooooooh but Mask of the Betrayer was MUCH better, like soooooo much better. 
I really love MotB.
Oh..I love Bishop. I downloaded all the romance mods for him.
But yeah, Casaviar...blah!!!
I really need to play the NWN games one day so I could have an idea on these Casavir and Bishop fellas. xD
Bishop was yet another reason why I love Bioware - because he's such an anti-hero with just enough complexity to make for a very interesting companion choice. I always loved this about Bioware games that you can surround yourself with complexity! You don't have to always pick righteous goody-two-shoes to fulfill some epic quest. Though the almost mandatory Casavir romance for female PC's in NWN2 was kind of depressing, though.
Still, that VO mod... *shudder* I really wish they would have done a fan mod with the original actor in a genuine studio so I wouldn't get utterly disenchanted every time one of those odd romance scenes trigger. I guess the voice matters too much to me. *sigh*
Bishop was yet another reason why I love Bioware - because he's such an anti-hero with just enough complexity to make for a very interesting companion choice. I always loved this about Bioware games that you can surround yourself with complexity! You don't have to always pick righteous goody-two-shoes to fulfill some epic quest. Though the almost mandatory Casavir romance for female PC's in NWN2 was kind of depressing, though.
Still, that VO mod... *shudder* I really wish they would have done a fan mod with the original actor in a genuine studio so I wouldn't get utterly disenchanted every time one of those odd romance scenes trigger. I guess the voice matters too much to me. *sigh*
NWN2 is an Obsidian game. BioWare made the original NWN, then passed the sequel off to Obsidian 
I've played it with the romance mods installed, and I just turned off the sound whenever the modded VA starts playing. I think the guy who picked up Bishop's voice did a decent job all things considered, but it's a hard voice to imitate.
Oh..I love Bishop. I downloaded all the romance mods for him.
But yeah, Casaviar...blah!!!
Bishop is still my BFF's favorite "love interest" despite his romance arc not being fully written. She has a bit of a thing for bad boys of the "walking disaster" variety 
Personally...with Atton Rand as possibly the only exception (and that's being generous), Obsidian's "romances" are really, deeply f***ed up. You think Solas has problems, try to play the dating game as the Nameless One. Which is interesting, certainly, but not something I'd like to play every time I fire up one of their games.
I believe Chris Avelone has said that he doesn't like doing BioWare-style romances, and I can't blame him. It kinda shows TBH. Project Eternity has no romances, and IMO the work that they put into building up the friendships with your party members (especially the weirder ones like Grieving Mother and Durance) more than makes up for it.
Only reason I really didn't care for Bishop is he seemed so over-the-top "bad boy." Yes, we get it, you're a jerk. Can we please stop with the overdramatic exposition about it? He did have an interesting background, sort of, but the character itself just came across as too much an opposite foil for Casavir. Neither of them were particularly compelling.
But it's all good for me in the end, it meant I got to run off with Gann in MoTB. God, but I loved Gann... 
I'd love to see Solas have a conversation with Gann. Seriously.
Bishop was yet another reason why I love Bioware - because he's such an anti-hero with just enough complexity to make for a very interesting companion choice. I always loved this about Bioware games that you can surround yourself with complexity! You don't have to always pick righteous goody-two-shoes to fulfill some epic quest. Though the almost mandatory Casavir romance for female PC's in NWN2 was kind of depressing, though.
Still, that VO mod... *shudder* I really wish they would have done a fan mod with the original actor in a genuine studio so I wouldn't get utterly disenchanted every time one of those odd romance scenes trigger. I guess the voice matters too much to me. *sigh*
Yeah..that voice mod..lol. It was pretty bad. I think the Bishop mod for MotB isn't voiced though...I don't remember. The first time I ever played NWN2, I romanced Casavir. Blah..he's soooo boring, and it's just so out of character that he would fall in love with an evil dark elf assassin.
But it's all good for me in the end, it meant I got to run off with Gann in MoTB. God, but I loved Gann...
Oh Gann. I'm so sorry that my Knight-Captain was too much of a psychotic loony by MoTB to romance you. Seriously, no PC's life sucks quite as much as the one from NWN2.
NWN2 is an Obsidian game. BioWare made the original NWN, then passed the sequel off to Obsidian
I've played it with the romance mods installed, and I just turned off the sound whenever the modded VA starts playing. I think the guy who picked up Bishop's voice did a decent job all things considered, but it's a hard voice to imitate.
Bishop is still my BFF's favorite "love interest" despite his romance arc not being fully written. She has a bit of a thing for bad boys of the "walking disaster" variety
I believe Chris Avelone has said that he doesn't like doing BioWare-style romances, and I can't blame him. Project Eternity has no romances, and IMO the work that they put into building up the friendships with your party members (especially the weirder ones like Grieving Mother and Durance) more than makes up for it.
You are quite right of course, pardon me. I associate the two in a kind of liquid fashion, they did base NWN2 on the original Bioware creation, but as you say, they didn't actually do the developing of it. I always thought that keeping that core "Bioware principle" in terms of companion choices is one of the best things about NWN2, although I think that there are quite a few things where the base game falls short that I've always blamed on this fact exactly, that it wasn't actually Bioware-made, though the expansions were just super great.
I wish someone would keep doing NWN stuff. 
<snip>
I believe Chris Avelone has said that he doesn't like doing BioWare-style romances, and I can't blame him. It kinda shows TBH. Project Eternity has no romances, and IMO the work that they put into building up the friendships with your party members (especially the weirder ones like Grieving Mother and Durance) more than makes up for it.
Pillars of Eternity is another game I really should be getting... (But alas, I'm not sure if it would run on my 32-bit laptop). I was a bit sad when I heard that there was not going to be any romances but then again, a game doesn't necessarily need romances to be good. (Though I have been spoiled by Bioware romances so I still wish PoE had them. xD)
My sister just recently ended PoE and she kept wishing that she could romance Eder. ^__^;
My sister just recently ended PoE and she kept wishing that she could romance Eder. ^__^;
Eder is the sweetest cinnamon roll to ever sweet.
Pillars of Eternity is another game I really should be getting... (But alas, I'm not sure if it would run on my 32-bit laptop). I was a bit sad when I heard that there was not going to be any romances but then again, a game doesn't necessarily need romances to be good. (Though I have been spoiled by Bioware romances so I still wish PoE had them. xD)
My sister just recently ended PoE and she kept wishing that she could romance Eder. ^__^;
I really want to play PoE too, but just like you..my little laptop will not play it. Sadness. My lappy plays NWN2 pretty good though..so maybe yours will too.
Only reason I really didn't care for Bishop is he seemed so over-the-top "bad boy." Yes, we get it, you're a jerk. Can we please stop with the overdramatic exposition about it? He did have an interesting background, sort of, but the character itself just came across as too much an opposite foil for Casavir. Neither of them were particularly compelling.
But it's all good for me in the end, it meant I got to run off with Gann in MoTB. God, but I loved Gann...
I'd love to see Solas have a conversation with Gann. Seriously.
Yes, I think they played the good vs. evil card a bit strongly with Casavir and Bishop; I can't help but feel that they could have fleshed it out more with leaving the Bishop romance option in and giving your PC an opportunity to influence their lives more. Much like actual Bioware games.
Oh, Gann...... *obsessed*
Yeah..that voice mod..lol. It was pretty bad. I think the Bishop mod for MotB isn't voiced though...I don't remember. The first time I ever played NWN2, I romanced Casavir. Blah..he's soooo boring, and it's just so out of character that he would fall in love with an evil dark elf assassin.
It was, yeah, haha. It was a decent job, I agree, but it killed the mood anyway.
Yes, I think they played the good vs. evil card a bit strongly with Casavir and Bishop; I can't help but feel that they could have fleshed it out more with leaving the Bishop romance option in and giving your PC an opportunity to influence their lives more. Much like actual Bioware games.
In the same vein as Anders, I liked how Casavir and Bishop were so very dislikeable. They were the knight-in-shining-armor and surly-bad-boy character tropes taken to their logical, horrifying extreme. Obsidian likes to mess around with things that are taken for granted in RPGs: alignment systems, conversation trees, immortality...they even turned the Force inside out in KOTOR 2. And I really like that about their stories.
It helped that a bunch of the supporting cast in NWN2 were IMO more likeable characters. Sand, Neeshka, and Shandra Jerro come to mind immediately.
Still catching up, but meanwhile, here's a little series of Horrible Haiku™ I wrote about our beloved Fen'Harel's day to day life, with accompanying .gifs and notations, because ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
In the same vein as Anders, I liked how Casavir and Bishop were so very dislikeable. They were the knight-in-shining-armor and surly-bad-boy character tropes taken to their logical, horrifying extreme. Obsidian likes to mess around with things that are taken for granted in RPGs: alignment systems, conversation trees, immortality...they even turned the Force inside out in KOTOR 2. And I really like that about their stories.
It helped that a bunch of the supporting cast in NWN2 were IMO more likeable characters. Sand, Neeshka, and Shandra Jerro come to mind immediately.
Yes, I agree. This is why I think Anders is so great, regardless of whether our feelings swing to a positive or a negative direction, he is a really interesting character and as you say, the fact that he can provoke such intense reactions from people is a sign of a well-written character.
I like most of the cast in NWN2, though I found Qara deeply irritating, even more than Casavir. I pretty much loved everyone else for different reasons and I like how their stories were implemented into the game.
My only disappointment is really that they left the Bishop romance out, I mean, for a character like that to fall for your PC would have been such an interestingly counter-intuitive dynamic, especially if you played a good or neutral character; from that perspective, I enjoyed the subtleties of being very chaotic or evil while romancing Casavir, but there was little enough that it almost doesn't count.
My only disappointment is really that they left the Bishop romance out, I mean, for a character like that to fall for your PC would have been such an interestingly counter-intuitive dynamic, especially if you played a good or neutral character; from that perspective, I enjoyed the subtleties of being very chaotic or evil while romancing Casavir, but there was little enough that it almost doesn't count.
The mod had an interesting "Beauty and the Beast" vibe with Bishop if you romance him with a good-aligned PC. Again, super unhealthy and messed up, but interesting. And historically, I've liked the mods that Domi (Bishop's mod author) makes, though I don't know if she does much modding any more.
Seriously, if I haven't pimped Pillars of Eternity enough... It has some really great, classically Obsidian characters. Durance in particular; he's like the party's insane old pyromaniac uncle. But he's a stellar example of a character who's compelling despite his disagreeable personality. I kind of wish BioWare would do more characters like that.
EDIT: Look! Dread Puppy! I'm on topic!
The mod had an interesting "Beauty and the Beast" vibe with Bishop if you romance him with a good-aligned PC. Again, super unhealthy and messed up, but interesting. And historically, I've liked the mods that Domi (Bishop's mod author) makes, though I don't know if she does much modding any more.
Seriously, if I haven't pimped Pillars of Eternity enough...
EDIT: Look! Dread Puppy! I'm on topic!
Spoiler
Everytime I see this pic, I can't help but smile and go D'awww
The mod had an interesting "Beauty and the Beast" vibe with Bishop if you romance him with a good-aligned PC. Again, super unhealthy and messed up, but interesting. And historically, I've liked the mods that Domi (Bishop's mod author) makes, though I don't know if she does much modding any more.
Seriously, if I haven't pimped Pillars of Eternity enough...
EDIT: Look! Dread Puppy! I'm on topic!
Spoiler
Yeah, I wish I had explored it more, but really, the voice thing just bothers me way too much. It's a shame, I saw that the mod was nicely developed with good lines and all that, but I just couldn't headcanon my way past this sticky juncture of the voice not matching.
Oh, this is getting nostalgic. I used to spend so much time designing campaigns for NWN and NWN2 and hunting for tons of mods and combining all this into some slush that never actually materialized as a viable mod in and of itself.... good times. I ought to get back to those roots.
I dont know why... maybe it was because he was rude to me one time, but i have never been a huge fan of this mage.
I know I'm late to the party, but I just have to say that this is the most awesome Anders-related come back ever. I would throw a thousand likes at this if I could. Cee, you must allow me to tell you how ardently I admire and love
youthis post.
Well, that was part of why I felt for him in the first place, since you catch him escaping....again. And I've always played pro mage freedom. And then things get really complicated.
I have never played NWN either, so I guess I didn't really miss much while my friends and I took over a Filipino restaurant and sang karaoke until 1am. Now I'm contemplating playing a bit on my mage Lavellan before I sleep. Or maybe tweaking her face again. I'm not sure if I'm satisfied or not.
I kid you not, I chose a song to sing tonight and then proceeded to hellspiral. Damn it, Solas, what have you done to me?
same omg. I was like "WHAT?! I thought you cared about people, boyfrand!?" 'cause I felt like that was so out of character. Yeah, he favors telling the truth but he also keeps the truth from people when necessary.
But look at the way he talk to Bull. He doesn't sugar coat the truth when he tells it.
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