Wondering around the Exalted Plains today, and I have Vivienne with while doing the quest where you gather notes from the dead soldiers. And, after collecting one of them, Vivienne says the line, "Poor unfortunate soul." And I was like, "You do realize you just made yourself a Disney villain, right?"
Also, does it irk anyone else that the groups of refuges in the Exalted Plains are supposed to be elves and are quite obviously human. 
Furthermore, this is an issue the rest of the game already suffers from. Because of the way the epilogue was handled, the game never feels complete. The odd structure of the narrative suggests the conflict with Corypheus was a sideshow of the Solas plot and nothing more.
It bothers me about how much of the story they cut. The writing for the stories and the design is (with some of Cory's pratfalls later on aside) top-notch. I wanted more of that. While I enjoyed the open world and the many varied environments and ferreting out their stories and the combat, ultimately I play Bioware games for a good story with great characters. My main problem with DA2 was how short and undeveloped Act III was, with Meredith and Orsino only being introduced at the tail end of Act 2. They had some great ideas and some great experiments. I loved the characters and themes, I just wanted a bigger finish.
Origins was meaty. It was bursting with stuff and story, and even then it would have been better if they had been able to fully get the 'Celene visiting Denerim' and 'Jowan the party member'.
...I think I understand why Gaider was always so grumpy when people ask him about cut content. 
Eh, it's too open-world of a game to ever feel complete anyway. That just goes with the genre.
I thought JoH did a good job of improving on the formula. It was still open for a lot of exploration, but the plot got woven in with it and everything wrapped up quite nicely. Though that was just one exploration zone.
Wondering around the Exalted Plains today, and I have Vivienne with while doing the quest where you gather notes from the dead soldiers. And, after collecting one of them, Vivienne says the line, "Poor unfortunate soul." And I was like, "You do realize you just made yourself a Disney villain, right?"
She even has the hat for it! I love her banter with Varric about him writing her in as a villain. She takes it as a compliment
She even has the hat for it! I love her banter with Varric about him writing her in as a villain. She takes it as a compliment
Her personal quest is even called Bring me the Heart of Snow White.
Her personal quest is even called Bring me the Heart of Snow White.
Yet somehow, Vivienne the Disney Villainess and my sweet, adorkable Lavellan were great friends. Viv wound up being a bit like Miranda Lawson: a character I thought I would hate and wound up really liking.
Eh, it's too open-world of a game to ever feel complete anyway. That just goes with the genre.
Also, Corypheus WAS a sideshow. Nothing wrong with that. All that matters is Solas... I love you, Solas. Come back now.
What she meant was that Solas' epilogue took away from the story of Corypheus. Which - while poorly done - is incedibly interesting and tragic. He was THE ****** magister. The Conductor. He blasted a hole through the Fade to enter the Golden City to find his God. Not to become one. To affirm that his faith meant something. He wasn't just a bad guy. He is the REASON that Thedas is the way it is now. And his one gloriously tragic final line(Dumat, hear me now is the series' My God, My god why have you forsaken me) is not only undercut by the Inquisitor's bro-y sendoff "GET BACK TO THE FADE BRO", it's importance is washed away by Solas' epilogue.
Don't get me wrong, what Solas is, is obviously important and I'm very interested, but it took away from what could have been a very interesting and compelling story on finding and losing faith. Which is always interesting and meaningful to me.
Yet somehow, Vivienne the Disney Villainess and my sweet, adorkable Lavellan were great friends. Viv wound up being a bit like Miranda Lawson: a character I thought I would hate and wound up really liking.
The opposite for me. I thought I'd like her and wound up really hating her. So much that she is now the first ever optional BW companion that I've deliberately chosen to not recruit (on my mage).
Furthermore, this is an issue the rest of the game already suffers from. Because of the way the epilogue was handled, the game never feels complete. The odd structure of the narrative suggests the conflict with Corypheus was a sideshow of the Solas plot and nothing more.
^This. Don't get me wrong, I love the game but Corypheus is......well he has to be a huge loser in VillainLand. Seriously, this guy has failed at every single thing he has tried to attempt. EVER.
But, it does come off as intentional. Like Corypheus was really never even meant to be a threat.
....and I don't think I will be able to handle it if Solas is suppose to be the real threat. =(
What she meant was that Solas' epilogue took away from the story of Corypheus. Which - while poorly done - is incedibly interesting and tragic. He was THE ****** magister. The Conductor. He blasted a hole through the Fade to enter the Golden City to find his God. Not to become one. To affirm that his faith meant something. He wasn't just a bad guy. He is the REASON that Thedas is the way it is now. And his one gloriously tragic final line(Dumat, hear me now is the series' My God, My god why have you forsaken me) is not only undercut by the Inquisitor's bro-y sendoff "GET BACK TO THE FADE BRO", it's importance is washed away by Solas' epilogue.
Don't get me wrong, what Solas is, is obviously important and I'm very interested, but it took away from what could have been a very interesting and compelling story on finding and losing faith. Which is always interesting and meaningful to me.
THIS.
I don't see how people do not understand the pathos that is scored through the magisters' stories. Corypheus is tragic. He is tragic on the Greek tragedy scale of tragic. His story begins with the absolute WOUND left by a silent god and ends with him entreating that very god at the end of his life. I mean. . . .COME ON GUYS.
No. I mean...depends on the context. I've seen people talking about another fic and then like someone is like 'OH HEY JUST GUNNA DROP THIS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CONVERSATION." It's sorta gross, especially if the author of the other fic is right there. Like right now, you could have just said 'oh hey, i wrote this.' Which is totally cool and legit.
Oh, um. In that case here is a thing I wrote: shorts featuring Solas, my Lavellan & various guests http://archiveofouro...hapters/7648457
Yet somehow, Vivienne the Disney Villainess and my sweet, adorkable Lavellan were great friends. Viv wound up being a bit like Miranda Lawson: a character I thought I would hate and wound up really liking.
The opposite for me. I thought I'd like her and wound up really hating her. So much that she is now the first optional companion that I've deliberately chosen to not recruit (on my mage).
I don't like her either but I always recruit her ... to keep an eye on her if nothing else. The first optional companion I've ever deliberately not recruited is Sebastian.
^This. Don't get me wrong, I love the game but Corypheus is......well he has to be a huge loser in VillainLand. Seriously, this guy has failed at every single thing he has tried to attempt. EVER.
But, it does come off as intentional. Like Corypheus was really never even meant to be a threat.
....and I don't think I will be able to handle it if Solas is suppose to be the real threat. =(
When people start calling him a bad villain, I feel they didn't take the time to think about the exigencies of his story, Or else, he is not the kind of villain they want. Of course, Bioware messed up on illustrating the heartbeat of his tragedy, but there were outside contingencies (like time, money, bureaucracy) that may have affected how he was presented in game. But the tragic core is still there, if you take the time to look.
I don't like her either but I always recruit her ... to keep an eye on her if nothing else. The first optional companion I've ever deliberately not recruited is Sebastian.
I also do not want her accidentally ninjaing herself into being named Divine, so I left her invitation unanswered this time.
Though that leaves me a mage spec short, which I've considered filling in myself, but also kind of want to go Rift Mage along with Solas and be a combo team.
This is why I love Vivienne. She's intelligent and a bit manipulative and power hungry, but she does everything with style and grace and has a honeyed way of speaking to people so she at least seems friendly (until she decides to be snarky.) She's basically a Disney villain. I may have a soft spot for villains...like I kind of want to be one... muahahaha....
I love her. Geniunely. Not because she's got an attitude. I think she is a great character and would make a strong friend to the right Inquisitor. She's not evil. Just smart.
What she meant was that Solas' epilogue took away from the story of Corypheus. Which - while poorly done - is incedibly interesting and tragic. He was THE ****** magister. The Conductor. He blasted a hole through the Fade to enter the Golden City to find his God. Not to become one. To affirm that his faith meant something. He wasn't just a bad guy. He is the REASON that Thedas is the way it is now. And his one gloriously tragic final line(Dumat, hear me now is the series' My God, My god why have you forsaken me) is not only undercut by the Inquisitor's bro-y sendoff "GET BACK TO THE FADE BRO", it's importance is washed away by Solas' epilogue.
Don't get me wrong, what Solas is, is obviously important and I'm very interested, but it took away from what could have been a very interesting and compelling story on finding and losing faith. Which is always interesting and meaningful to me.
If the most interesting part of Corypheus is the story of his faith, then I don't think the Solas stuff actually diminishes it. Solas, Mythal, what the elves think about all of them--that's all the same stuff. Gods, their interactions with each other and their followers and what their existence means. It's still exploring the same subject, so the idea that Solas is a god (who isn't a god...but is) and the revelation that everything he has said suddenly has the legitimacy of being said by a god emphasizes the idea of faith.
If faith and what it means to pretty much everyone in the game is the main theme, then Solas doesn't hurt it. It's a juxtaposition that makes everything more meaningful--Corypheus: a man who wants to be a god after his journey ended in a loss of faith in his god--and Solas: a man who is a god and his gaining of faith in people...or whatever you want to take away from Solas' journey--there's a lot of different comparisons/richness to comparing them if you want to find it.
I love her. Geniunely. Not because she's got an attitude. I think she is a great character and would make a strong friend to the right Inquisitor. She's not evil. Just smart.
I agree! I was just being silly. I think she truly does like the Inquisitor though and she seems genuinely greatful for her personal quest. I don't think her personality "softens" though. She's still a tough go-getter by the end of the game. (...But she could be a villain if she wanted.)
If the most interesting part of Corypheus is the story of his faith, then I don't think the Solas stuff actually diminishes it. Solas, Mythal, what the elves think about all of them--that's all the same stuff. Gods, their interactions with each other and their followers and what their existence means. It's still exploring the same subject, so the idea that Solas is a god (who isn't a god...but is) and the revelation that everything he has said suddenly has the legitimacy of being said by a god emphasizes the idea of faith.
If faith and what it means to pretty much everyone in the game is the main theme, then Solas doesn't hurt it. It's a juxtaposition that makes everything more meaningful--Corypheus: a man who wants to be a god after his journey ended in a loss of faith in his god--and Solas: a man who is a god and his gaining of faith in people...or whatever you want to take away from Solas' journey--there's a lot of different comparisons/richness to comparing them if you want to find it.
Corypheus's story has merit by itself. Without Solas "legitimizing" it.
I love her. Geniunely. Not because she's got an attitude. I think she is a great character and would make a strong friend to the right Inquisitor. She's not evil. Just smart.
When I was planning my mage, originally, I planned for a Circle/order-supporting Trev (displaced Circle mage), and so I would have had that mage recruit and befriend her.
But in general, while she is still a shrewd, interesting woman, she's just way too much of a snobbish, self-motivated social climber and what she did after I gave her the snowy heart just sealed all that. Like, this Inquisition exists for a purpose, and that purpose is not for you to use it for your own social standing.
While not exactly selfless, I did find it very interesting that Corypheus's motivation in becoming a god isn't about naked power or dominion over men. It's about restoring his people and homeland to their former glory, and about providing the support and guardianship of a god that Dumat failed to deliver on. It's just that almost everyone else has benefited from Tevinter being a shadow of its former glory. The Templar version of the Temple of Dumat is one of the best quests in the game, as it lets you into Corypheus's head and how troubled he is. There's a small part of me that hopes that the Augur of Mystery stitches Corypheus back together in the Fade and recruits the Architect for the ultimate road trip. (Do the Seven still dream in the Fade, I wonder?)
I love the idea of the Seven Magisters and hope to see more of them in the future. 
When I was planning my mage, originally, I planned for a Circle/order-supporting Trev (displaced Circle mage), and so I would have had that mage recruit and befriend her.
But in general, while she is still a shrewd, interesting woman, she's just way too much of a snobbish, self-motivated social climber and what she did after I gave her the snowy heart just sealed all that. Like, this Inquisition exists for a purpose, and that purpose is not for you to use it for your own social standing.
With that stuff - it's "worth the price of admission" - which is a line often used when deciding to date someone. But I think it applies well for friends. For me...in this game...she's worth it. She does care. She's tough as nails and certainly snobbish but once you're her buddy, it's always sent off in another direction. She also is amazingly compassionate. She tells that one guy to "eff off" when he was being homophobic about Dorian -- and they don't really get a long. She is one of the ONLY companions that really openly grieves when you find the horror shed in Redcliffe(Oculara). Which for me, was very telling about her character(mostly because I thought that was the absolutely most grotesque thing in the whole game).
I can see her rubbing some people the wrong way, and it's just not worth it. For me it is.
Maybe if Solas had one of these adorable tea cozys he wouldn't hate tea so much...
http://www.buzzfeed....-omg#.pmO3eb1Rg
With that stuff - it's "worth the price of admission" - which is a line often used when deciding to date someone. But I think it applies well for friends. For me...in this game...she's worth it. She does care. She's tough as nails and certainly snobbish but once you're her buddy, it's always sent off in another direction. She also is amazingly compassionate. She tells that one guy to "eff off" when he was being homophobic about Dorian -- and they don't really get a long. She is one of the ONLY companions that really openly grieves when you find the horror shed in Redcliffe(Oculara). Which for me, was very telling about her character(mostly because I thought that was the absolutely most grotesque thing in the whole game).
I can see her rubbing some people the wrong way, and it's just not worth it. For me it is.
She's the only one my Inquisitor did not wind up registering as friends with, which should say something. Though Keep wouldn't let me say that without a world state that wouldn't be valid, so officially, that changed. I hardly used her past a certain point since I use two mages in my party and I love Dorian, so he and Solas were it.
She might care at times, but ultimately, it's all about her. After her quest, I just felt utterly used and disgusted.
edit: I'm not saying that I dislike characters that I find personally to be internally polarizing. Sera pulls me in two directions, for instance, but ultimately, I am more on the love side with her.
I don't like her either but I always recruit her ... to keep an eye on her if nothing else. The first optional companion I've ever deliberately not recruited is Sebastian.
Is he just too awesome to be in your party?
She's the only one my Inquisitor did not wind up registering as friends with, which should say something. Though Keep wouldn't let me say that without a world state that wouldn't be valid, so officially, that changed. I hardly used her past a certain point since I use two mages in my party and I love Dorian, so he and Solas were it.
She might care at times, but ultimately, it's all about her. After her quest, I just felt utterly used and disgusted.
I can't work out why the Keep wont let you put 'completed Vivienne's quest' but leave 'not friends with Vivienne'. Her quest isn't approval based so it's a possible state to be in (and the one I had). It also lacks the option to say 'let the noble go' in Sera's quest. Just 'worked with the noble' and 'forced the noble to work with the Inquistion.'
And it lacks options to say what the result of All New, Faded For Her was re: the mages.
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