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[Meer]

Is he just too awesome to be in your party?

 

Probably.
 

[MayriyaNoori]

When people start calling him a bad villain, I feel they didn't take the time to think about the exigencies of his story, Or else, he is not the kind of villain they want. Of course, Bioware messed up on illustrating the heartbeat of his tragedy, but there were outside contingencies (like time, money, bureaucracy) that may have affected how he was presented in game. But the tragic core is still there, if you take the time to look.

 

Oh I recognize some tragedy. That's kind of what I mean by him being a loser in VillainLand. He loses every time and that's pretty freaking sad given his age and power.

 

Spoiler

And in the end, what makes it super sad to me is the fact that if Solas did give him the orb I'm really led to believe that Corypheus had no idea it was Fen'Harel in front of him. I mean....clearly with such a powerful tool Corypheus would want to keep it for his own agenda.....but was he really so crazy to enter a game of chess with Fen'Harel, the guy that was able to outsmart everyone who was on his level? Or was Corypheus' pride/ego seriously on that kind of level that he felt like he could take him on?

 

I mean, imagine that....he thought he was taking on some little accident nobody who now has his anchor and what he probably just sees as his/her cult following. No clue he was dealing with an ancient elven god.Two when you count the fact that Mythal gets involved near the end.

 

On top of it all, in the end neither of them got what they wanted. Solas lost his orb and Corypheus...well gone for good as far as we know. Sad day for both.

[Illyria]

Probably.
 

 

Oh Sebastian.  Our love shall never be.

 

Hawke likes taking those heart options with everyone she meets.

[Lunapur]

Interesting stuff here about ancient humans and elves courtesy of girltriesgames I love her stuff:)

Spoiler

[BoscoBread]

Oh I recognize some tragedy. That's kind of what I mean by him being a loser in VillainLand. He loses every time and that's pretty freaking sad given his age and power.

 

Spoiler

And in the end, what makes it super sad to me is the fact that if Solas did give him the orb I'm really led to believe that Corypheus had no idea it was Fen'Harel in front of him. I mean....clearly with such a powerful tool Corypheus would want to keep it for his own agenda.....but was he really so crazy to enter a game of chess with Fen'Harel, the guy that was able to outsmart everyone who was on his level? Or was Corypheus' pride/ego seriously on that kind of level that he felt like he could take him on?

 

I mean, imagine that....he thought he was taking on some little accident nobody who now has his anchor and what he probably just sees as his/her cult following. No clue he was dealing with an ancient elven god.Two when you count the fact that Mythal gets involved near the end.

 

On top of it all, in the end neither of them got what they wanted. Solas lost his orb and Corypheus...well gone for good as far as we know. Sad day for both.

I think that's just mechanics. That is not the intended tragedy of his story - according to the writers.  It's his loss of faith and what he does because of it.  I really recommend you read the WoT.  It's so sad. Corypheus believed in Dumat and was left bereft when Dumat stopped talking.  His station as a High Priest and his faith called completely into question. He was desperate to see. Desperate to know that Dumat was still there.  Wanted assurance that the whispers that were urging them to the golden city were just Dumat telling him to come and serve. That's all he wants.  In his heart of hearts he wants to know that the God that he sacraficied his blood, body, and soul to was just LISTENING to him.  And then it's empty. There is nothing there.  I cannot imagine the anguish that he felt. The horror and the embarrassment that noone was ever there. 

 

Then at the end of the game he gets that small bit back. He calls out to him.  Please be real. Please hear me.  I am still your devoted servant! 

That's the tragedy of Corypheus.

[Elessara]

Is he just too awesome to be in your party?

 

No.  He annoys me  =p

 

Mostly it's how when you meet him he wants vengeance so you give him what he asks for and then he realises hey this doesn't make me feel better and maybe it was the wrong thing to do.  So later on, Elthina gets murdered and what does he do?  Want vengeance AND he'll start a war that will get a lot of other people killed to get it.  He learned nothing and I pretty much saw no added value to having him in my party other than some amusing party banter.  I was pretty disgusted at his rant about how if you don't kill Anders he'll go back to Starkhaven, take over, raise an army and march on Kirkwall.  And once he's killed hundreds, if not thousands of people and not even gotten his hands on Anders because by that time Anders isn't even in Kirkwall anymore ... will he feel better?  No.  And not to mention such a reaction is something that would have completely horrified and appalled Elthina herself.

 

I might have thought about it a bit too much, I admit.

 

Anyway, I agree that Vivienne isn't evil.  She's self serving for the most part but also intelligent, ruthless (not necessarily a bad thing), powerful and cunning.  I wouldn't trust her if my own interests were at cross purposes with hers though.  I also never even mention the possibility of her being Divine nor do I touch that war table mission with a 10' pole.  She's never ninja'd her way into being Divine in one of my playthroughs thank goodness.  I honestly think her "rule" as Divine would be an unmitigated disaster.

[Caddius]

I think that's just mechanics. That is not the intended tragedy of his story - according to the writers.  It's his loss of faith and what he does because of it.  I really recommend you read the WoT.  It's so sad. Corypheus believed in Dumat and was left bereft when Dumat stopped talking.  His station as a High Priest and his faith called completely into question. He was desperate to see. Desperate to know that Dumat was still there.  Wanted assurance that the whispers that were urging them to the golden city were just Dumat telling him to come and serve. That's all he wants.  In his heart of hearts he wants to know that the God that he sacraficied his blood, body, and soul to was just LISTENING to him.  And then it's empty. There is nothing there.  I cannot imagine the anguish that he felt. The horror and the embarrassment that noone was ever there. 

 

Then at the end of the game he gets that small bit back. He calls out to him.  Please be real. Please hear me.  I am still your devoted servant! 

That's the tragedy of Corypheus.

I am as poor as a Chantry mouse at the moment, so I don't have the new World of Thedas book. TELL ME EVERYTHING!  In this case, specifically about Corypheus? Please? 

[BoscoBread]

I am as poor as a Chantry mouse at the moment, so I don't have the new World of Thedas book. TELL ME EVERYTHING!  In this case, specifically about Corypheus? Please? 

That is better left to the Great and Lovely Magistra, Giton. I have an appt. to get to.  But that is pretty much it in a nutshell!

[Sable Rhapsody]

I think that's just mechanics. That is not the intended tragedy of his story - according to the writers.  It's his loss of faith and what he does because of it.  I really recommend you read the WoT.  It's so sad. Corypheus believed in Dumat and was left bereft when Dumat stopped talking.  His station as a High Priest and his faith called completely into question. He was desperate to see. Desperate to know that Dumat was still there. The whispers that urged them to go to the black city where just Dumat telling him to come and serve. That's all he wants.  In his heart of hearts he wants to know that the God that he sacraficied his blood, body, and soul to was just LISTENING to him.  And then it's empty. There is nothing there.  I cannot imagine the anguish that he felt. The horror and the embarrassment that noone was ever there. 

Then at the end of the game he gets that small bit back. He calls out to him.  Please be real. Please hear me.  I am still your devoted servant! 

That's the tragedy of Corypheus.

 

The tragedy is there, but it's just so hard to find without supplementary material (WoT, writer interviews, etc) or picking through all his codices.  Not every player is going to spend hundreds of hours on Dragon Age, and IMO they shouldn't have to for the storyline of the main villain.  I think it's fair to criticize the storytelling for failing "show, don't tell" when it came to Corypheus.  The heart of a good story is there, but I shouldn't have to reconstruct the main villain's tale and motivations with a bunch of disjointed pieces.

 

Corypheus's implementation as a villain (and I'm going to stress implementation, separate from characterization) reminded me a bit of ME3 Illusive Man.  Lots of unrealized potential for awesome, but disappointing due to time or budget or whatever.

[Illyria]

No.  He annoys me  =p

 

Mostly it's how when you meet him he wants vengeance so you give him what he asks for and then he realises hey this doesn't make me feel better and maybe it was the wrong thing to do.  So later on, Elthina gets murdered and what does he do?  Want vengeance AND he'll start a war that will get a lot of other people killed to get it.  He learned nothing and I pretty much saw no added value to having him in my party other than some amusing party banter.  I was pretty disgusted at his rant about how if you don't kill Anders he'll go back to Starkhaven, take over, raise an army and march on Kirkwall.  And once he's killed hundreds, if not thousands of people and not even gotten his hands on Anders because by that time Anders isn't even in Kirkwall anymore ... will he feel better?  No.  And not to mention such a reaction is something that would have completely horrified and appalled Elthina herself.

 

I might have thought about it a bit too much, I admit.

 

That's the tragedy of Sebastian's character.  For all he and Anders are on opposite sides of the argument they are so similar in how they react to things.  If they'd just been a bit more willing to listen to each other then the entire of DA2 would've been different (it also would've been different if I'd been able to completely reject Anders joining the party.)

 

Anders killed hundreds of people in the chantry explosion (including many of Seb's friends, his mother figure, people who had just gone into pray Ferelden refugees and orphens, and anyone who happened to be near the building when it exploded.)  Seb's anger is justified, if misdirected (much like Anders' is in Act III).  Both of them are prone to taking action that gives them personal vengence rather than justice and they can't see the difference.  Frankly, it's worth having Seb around just for all the parrellels.

 

On topic: Solas: ass man or not?

[freelovefreeway]

Corypheus's story has merit by itself. Without Solas "legitimizing" it.

 

Yes, but that doesn't mean it can't be deepened. Or that it wouldn't benefit from showing people (who might've missed) its richness through the use of juxtaposition...

[Illyria]

Corypheus's story has merit by itself. Without Solas "legitimizing" it.

 

As Sable pointed out Cory's story isn't clear in the game itself.  Not without playing DA2 DLC, reading every codex, playing the Templer path rather than the mage path and reading World of Thedas.

[Elessara]

The tragedy is there, but it's just so hard to find without supplementary material (WoT, writer interviews, etc) or picking through all his codices.  Not every player is going to spend hundreds of hours on Dragon Age, and IMO they shouldn't have to for the storyline of the main villain.  I think it's fair to criticize the storytelling for failing "show, don't tell" when it came to Corypheus.  The heart of a good story is there, but I shouldn't have to reconstruct the main villain's tale and motivations with a bunch of disjointed pieces.

 

Corypheus's implementation as a villain (and I'm going to stress implementation, separate from characterization) reminded me a bit of ME3 Illusive Man.  Lots of unrealized potential for awesome, but disappointing due to time or budget or whatever.

 

And you really only get a bit of insight into his head if you do the templar side and the Calpernia questline - which, as I understand it, is optional.  You get a tiny bit if you find the codex entry in the Arbor Wilds where Sampson talks about Cory but not nearly what you get with the templar side.  I prefer supporting the mages but I also think the Calpernia questline was better than the Samson one.

[Elessara]

That's the tragedy of Sebastian's character.  For all he and Anders are on opposite sides of the argument they are so similar in how they react to things.  If they'd just been a bit more willing to listen to each other then the entire of DA2 would've been different (it also would've been different if I'd been able to completely reject Anders joining the party.)

 

Anders killed hundreds of people in the chantry explosion (including many of Seb's friends, his mother figure, people who had just gone into pray Ferelden refugees and orphens, and anyone who happened to be near the building when it exploded.)  Seb's anger is justified, if misdirected (much like Anders' is in Act III).  Both of them are prone to taking action that gives them personal vengence rather than justice and they can't see the difference.  Frankly, it's worth having Seb around just for all the parrellels.

 

On topic: Solas: ass man or not?

 

I believe he is.  Can you blame him though?  For as skinny as Lavellan is .. she has a decent ass.

[Illyria]

Not Solas, but this art needs to be shared:

 

Spoiler

http://lilyrutherfor...i-sketched-this

[DarthEmpress]

On topic: Solas: ass man or not?

 

Solas response: "Is that a serious question?"
 

da booty

[Giton]

As Sable pointed out Cory's story isn't clear in the game itself.  Not without playing DA2 DLC, reading every codex, playing the Templer path rather than the mage path and reading World of Thedas.

 You mean without paying attention to the context? 

[ChuChu]

I don't know, I found Cory's story pretty easy to pick up on. There was enough background to give you an idea of the depth and importance. He was tragic, in a sense -- many with such a serious case of hubris are -- and I don't think that was lost on anyone. And if you don't read the codex entries you find then you're pretty much damning yourself to a lack lustre lore anyway.

Off topic: it is taking every ounce of my strength to not post another work in progress image. Quick, someone distract me with a Solas gif.

[Illyria]

 You mean without paying attention to the context? 

 

The context - for the main villain - involves relying on information from outside of the game and some that is only avaible on one path of the game with no indication on the other.  I find Coryoheus to be a fastinating and sympathetic character too, but he was really badly handled and that's what makes him a bad villian.

[Junebug]

YASSSSSSSSS IT CAME IN!!! My World of Thedas Vol. 2. Danke schoen, Amazon Prime. Many nights shall be spent reading this.

[Garnet]

I was looking at Solas gifs and found this.. it's so cute! 

 

Spoiler

http://pinacoladamatata.tumblr.com/post/113476469347/just-leaves-this-here

[Giton]

The context - for the main villain - involves relying on information from outside of the game and some that is only avaible on one path of the game with no indication on the other.  I find Coryoheus to be a fastinating and sympathetic character too, but he was really badly handled and that's what makes him a bad villian.

I agreed with you on the way bioware handled him: " Of course, Bioware messed up on illustrating the heartbeat of his tragedy, but there were outside contingencies (like time, money, bureaucracy) that may have affected how he was presented in game. But the tragic core is still there, if you take the time to look."

[Heidirs]

I can't work out why the Keep wont let you put 'completed Vivienne's quest' but leave 'not friends with Vivienne'.  Her quest isn't approval based so it's a possible state to be in (and the one I had). 

 

Odd. I thought it was approval based...

 

 

It also lacks the option to say 'let the noble go' in Sera's quest.  Just 'worked with the noble' and 'forced the noble to work with the Inquistion.'

 

You can do that?

[Illyria]

Odd. I thought it was approval based...

 

 

 

You can do that?

 

You need the noble related perk, I think.

[Illyria]

Pillars of Eternity off topicness:

 

Spoiler

Anyone who has played it help me roll a character. I'm still trapped in CC. I just roll a character, play the tutorial and reroll. I've never even made it past seeing the corpse tree.

Basically, I shouldn't be allowed near a CC with so many options.