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Solas Thread - NOW OFFICIALLY MOVED to Cyonan's BSN (link in OP)


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#101501
Sable Rhapsody

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I agreed with you on the way bioware handled him: " Of course, Bioware messed up on illustrating the heartbeat of his tragedy, but there were outside contingencies (like time, money, bureaucracy) that may have affected how he was presented in game. But the tragic core is still there, if you take the time to look."

 

Which not every player is going to do, and IMO, players shouldn't have to do in order to grasp the storyline of the main villain.

 

Hmm...how to explain this?  I'm not saying they should dumb the game down or anything, but let's say that instead of getting Darth Vader's story told to you in the original Star Wars trilogy, you got it in a bunch of supplemental material and comics and codex flashbacks.  And the only time that the films engaged with the full tragedy of his story was at the very end, where he saves Luke and dies in his arms.  It'd still be a good scene, but it would lack the same emotional punch unless you took the time to go through all that supplemental stuff.  And honestly most viewers might not do that, or even know it's present.

 

It's the same problem that's present in Wicked Eyes.  Without Masked Empire, you have very little context.  And IMO that's sloppy storytelling, forcing your player to go outside the game for the story context that they need.


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#101502
Sable Rhapsody

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Pillars of Eternity off topicness:

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler


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#101503
Illyria

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Which not every player is going to do, and IMO, players shouldn't have to do in order to grasp the storyline of the main villain.

 

Hmm...how to explain this?  I'm not saying they should dumb the game down or anything, but let's say that instead of getting Darth Vader's story told to you in the original Star Wars trilogy, you got it in a bunch of supplemental material and comics and codex flashbacks.  And the only time that the films engaged with the full tragedy of his story was at the very end, where he saves Luke.  It'd still be a good scene, but it would lack the same emotional punch unless you took the time to go through all that supplemental stuff.  And honestly most viewers might not do that, or even know it's present.

 

IMO it's the same problem that's present in Wicked Eyes.  Without Masked Empire, you have very little context.  And IMO that's sloppy storytelling, forcing your player to go outside the game for the story context that they need.

 

Thank you for bringing up Wicket Eyes.  That's the kind of example I was looking for and couldn't think of.

 

If I had already read that book (several times) I wouldn't have been able to bring myself to care about the peace talks.  DAI is frustrating because it's got so many things that would make for a fantastic game (the civil war, the mage/templer war, a villian like Corypheus to name just three) but they're not used to their fullest potential.  And if they are used it's in off screen War Table missions.  I'm really hoping that the DAI DLC improve on a lot of the lacking content.  This game really feels like it could've done with an extra year of dev time.

 

*glares at the Skyhold PJs and terrible hair styles*

 

The game does manage to handle some book to game transitions pretty well.  Cole, for example.  He has an ingame introduction where we see (on both paths) how odd he is, and in Skyhold he has optinal but extensive dialouge about the events of Asunder.  Both his personal quest and war table mission are related to Asunder but we're given enough context in game to care about the outcomes.  (I did read Asunder first, though, so I may not be the best judge of this).



#101504
NightSymphony

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Little art break

 

Dread and Wolf

http://morrigaincrow...-wolf-532667028

 

Concept Art Solas

http://heavensspire....Edits-532655087


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#101505
Heidirs

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It's the same problem that's present in Wicked Eyes.  Without Masked Empire, you have very little context.  And IMO that's sloppy storytelling, forcing your player to go outside the game for the story context that they need.

 

I agree that Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts is missing a lot of context. However, I think the point of the mission wasn't to give all that context. There was an interview, and I can't remember where. I'd have to see if I can dig it up, but the devs said they wanted the player to be able to decide that they didn't care about politics or The Game and they could just hurry through the mission if they wanted. Giving all that extra context would have been counter to that goal.

 

What I find interesting is that quest offers up no one person as better or more interesting than the other. They're all manipulative and terrible people in their own sense, and I think the reason we don't get info from Masked Empire is they didn't want to make any one potential ruler more favorable than the other. In that sense, I think Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts works very well in regard. You have to put someone on the throne, and when all three of them appear just as corrupt as the other, how to do you choose? I thought it made for a very interesting dilemma.

 

That said, I did think the part about "Briala's eluvians" just being thrown out there in the War Table mission was pretty lazy. That makes no sense for people who haven't read the book.

 

In the case of Corypheus, I really don't feel Solas' reveal detracts from his story. I mean, we don't spend that much time with Corypheus. You either pick up on the sadness of his character or you don't. The epilogue itself don't add to or take away from that. His story is the same either way. If anything, I think Corypheus getting more screen time would have done more for his character and player reception than anything to do with Solas.



#101506
Sable Rhapsody

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This game really feels like it could've done with an extra year of dev time.

 

*glares at the Skyhold PJs and terrible hair styles*

 

The game does manage to handle some book to game transitions pretty well.  Cole, for example.  He has an ingame introduction where we see (on both paths) how odd he is, and in Skyhold he has optinal but extensive dialouge about the events of Asunder.  Both his personal quest and war table mission are related to Asunder but we're given enough context in game to care about the outcomes.  (I did read Asunder first, though, so I may not be the best judge of this).

 

To me DA:I feels a lot like growing pains as they try to sort out what the series will be about going forward.  It's a good game, but not super cohesive in vision.  Story driven?  Exploration?  Character-driven?  It just didn't have a good sense of what it wanted to be.  And I kind of get the impression that a lot of the story is bound up in codices and books and War Table because they just ran out of room/time to implement it all, and the game had been pushed back twice already.

 

I agree that Asunder did a good job of providing context and richness to the story without being essential for understanding like Masked Empire was.  Though I'm also biased, both toward Asunder (probably my favorite supplemental fiction), and my sweet cinnamon roll Cole  :wub:



#101507
Sable Rhapsody

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I agree that Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts is missing a lot of context. However, I think the point of the mission wasn't to give all that context. There was an interview, and I can't remember where. I'd have to see if I can dig it up, but the devs said they wanted the player to be able to decide that they didn't care about politics or The Game and they could just hurry through the mission if they wanted. Giving all that extra context would have been counter to that goal.

 

I think they also talked about how the action-based start to DA:I was meant to toss the player into a crisis, then all the conversation hubs in Haven contained a bunch of context for players who wanted it.  And players who didn't want it could ignore it.  IMO that's a fine approach for the relatively straightforward beginning, but not for Wicked Eyes.  I'm not disagreeing with what the devs said they wanted, I just don't think it was a good approach to Halamshiral.

 

It'd be like designing the Blackpowder DA2 quests in such a way that you could blitz past the qunari just in case you "didn't care."  Wicked Eyes isn't just there for players who like the political maneuvering.  If you've never read Masked Empire, it's your first real introduction to Orlais, its major players, its lore and culture.  You can't just skimp on that because some players might not like it.  If that's the rationale, why couldn't I skip Orzammar?  :D


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#101508
Illyria

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Little art break

 

Dread and Wolf

http://morrigaincrow...-wolf-532667028

 

Concept Art Solas

http://heavensspire....Edits-532655087

 

Art breaks are always welcome during lore/narrative discussions.

 

Or any time at all, really.

 

To me DA:I feels a lot like growing pains as they try to sort out what the series will be about going forward.  It's a good game, but not super cohesive in vision.  Story driven?  Exploration?  Character-driven?  It just didn't have a good sense of what it wanted to be.  And I kind of get the impression that a lot of the story is bound up in codices and books and War Table because they just ran out of room/time to implement it all, and the game had been pushed back twice already.

 

I agree that Asunder did a good job of providing context and richness to the story without being essential for understanding like Masked Empire was.  Though I'm also biased, both toward Asunder (probably my favorite supplemental fiction), and my sweet cinnamon roll Cole  :wub:

 

'Growing pains' is a great way to put it.

 

They did have a lot to cram into one game and Gaider must've known this was his last DA game and he probably wanted to get as many huge twists into his world before setting it on fire and laughing at our pain handing it over to Weekes.

 

The devs also have the problem of trying to make games that have in depth lore and setting while also making games that appeal to a wide a range of customers as possible.


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#101509
Heidirs

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To me DA:I feels a lot like growing pains as they try to sort out what the series will be about going forward.  It's a good game, but not super cohesive in vision.  Story driven?  Exploration?  Character-driven?  It just didn't have a good sense of what it wanted to be.  And I kind of get the impression that a lot of the story is bound up in codices and books and War Table because they just ran out of room/time to implement it all, and the game had been pushed back twice already.

 

I think another issue was learning how to use a whole new design system as well. Sounds like they had multiple things going against them.



#101510
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I think what Giton is trying to argue is that even though Corypheus was implemented badly, that doesn't make him a bad villain. He's not a moustache twirler typical villain, even with the poor writing. That's the distinction she's trying to make. Yes, you only get a small sense of the nature of Corypheus' character from in-game codexes or dialogue, but it's not the same typical evil villain trope that you see in some other games or books. The extra information in the World of Thedas, or other outside sources is there to serve the player who wants to understand Corypheus (or any other character/idea from the games) in a bigger capacity.


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#101511
Illyria

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I think they also talked about how the action-based start to DA:I was meant to toss the player into a crisis, then all the conversation hubs in Haven contained a bunch of context for players who wanted it.  And players who didn't want it could ignore it.  IMO that's a fine approach for the relatively straightforward beginning, but not for Wicked Eyes.  I'm not disagreeing with what the devs said they wanted, I just don't think it was a good approach to Halamshiral.

 

It'd be like designing the Blackpowder DA2 quests in such a way that you could blitz past the qunari just in case you "didn't care."  Wicked Eyes isn't just there for players who like the political maneuvering.  If you've never read Masked Empire, it's your first real introduction to Orlais, its major players, its lore and culture.  You can't just skimp on that because some players might not like it.  If that's the rationale, why couldn't I skip Orzammar?  :D

 

I actually think the action based starts they keep giving us are ruining the stories right from the start.  In both DA2 and DAI I found myself thinking 'who are these people?  Why should I care?'  I'm told Beth is my sister but there's nothing in her character that makes me feel sad when she dies.  It's the same with DAI.  I'm a huge lore nerd for DA but yet I felt totally disconnected to the events of the prolouge.  If I'd had the chance to wander around the Conclave, meet some redshirts and hear different sides of the conflict it would've been a very different opening.  I would've had time to figure out who my character was, too (and maybe had a CC with decent lighting).

 

Origins did a pretty good job of this.  My bro Leske in the dwarf commoner origin is a good example

Spoiler
and Ser Jory and Daveth both got a bit of character development before going the way of Jenkins (who also got some development and even referenced in both ME2 and ME3).


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#101512
NightSymphony

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I haven't read "Masked Empire" yet even though I own the book. I'll get to it eventually.  Anyway, because I haven't read the book, I don't really care who I let live. who dies, or who keeps the throne.  I always just keep Celine and banish Gaspard. I came to the ball to keep Celine from being assassinated so I did what I came to do. Also, because I don't know her history, she seems like a nice person who is going to help The Inquisition. She shows up to the final battle in her pretty gown, not caring if she gets mud or blood all over it. I like the woman.  Now I know that once I read the book, I'll probably hate her since I've been reading all the spoiler stuff posted here.


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#101513
Illyria

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I think what Giton is trying to argue is that even though Corypheus was implemented badly, that doesn't make him a bad villain. He's not a moustache twirler typical villain, even with the poor writing. That's the distinction she's trying to make. Yes, you only get a small sense of the nature of Corypheus' character from in-game codexes or dialogue, but it's not the same typical evil villain trope that you see in some other games or books. The extra information in the World of Thedas, or other outside sources is there to serve the player who wants to understand Corypheus (or any other character/idea from the games) in a bigger capacity.

 

I get that, and I get pretty annoyed when I see people refer to Cory as a moustache twirler.  But he's badly implimented into the game he's the main villian of.  Even Loghain - a man who was selling elves to blood mage slavers - managed to get plently of sympathetic moments in DAO that didn't rely on having read The Stolen Throne.


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#101514
Sable Rhapsody

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I think what Giton is trying to argue is that even though Corypheus was implemented badly, that doesn't make him a bad villain. 

 

I agree.  Same as Blackwall for me TBH, or the Illusive Man.  Good characters on paper, less so in implementation.  So I'm not surprised when people don't like these characters at all, because not everyone is going to dig for what the character could have been instead of what they wound up being in-game.

 

 

I actually think the action based starts they keep giving us are ruining the stories right from the start.  In both DA2 and DAI I found myself thinking 'who are these people?  Why should I care?'  I'm told Beth is my sister but there's nothing in her character that makes me feel sad when she dies.  It's the same with DAI.  I'm a huge lore nerd for DA but yet I felt totally disconnected to the events of the prolouge.  If I'd had the chance to wander around the Conclave, meet some redshirts and hear different sides of the conflict it would've been a very different opening.  I would've had time to figure out who my character was, too (and maybe had a CC with decent lighting).

 

Origins did a pretty good job of this.  My bro Leske in the dwarf commoner origin is a good example

Spoiler
and Ser Jory and Daveth both got a bit of character development before going the way of Jenkins (who also got some development and even referenced in both ME2 and ME3).

 

I'm of two minds on this.  On one hand, I can see where the devs are coming from.  I liked the origin stories of DA:O, but generally speaking, the beginning was a slog after the origins.  I had so many abortive playthroughs where I hit Ostagar, realized I still had another couple hours until the meat of the game kicked in, and just quit.

 

On the other hand, I agree that a playable prologue would have gone a long, long way toward making DA:I's beginning feel less disconnected.  Especially playing as Adaar, who's literally some guy who was hired as muscle.  No connection at all.


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#101515
Illyria

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I'm of two minds on this.  On one hand, I can see where the devs are coming from.  I liked the origin stories of DA:O, but generally speaking, the beginning was a slog after the origins.  I had so many abortive playthroughs where I hit Ostagar, realized I still had another couple hours until the meat of the game kicked in, and just quit.

 

On the other hand, I agree that a playable prologue would have gone a long, long way toward making DA:I's beginning feel less disconnected.  Especially playing as Adaar, who's literally some guy who was hired as muscle.  No connection at all.

 

I'm not saying we should get anything as in depth as the origins+Ostagar again.  I'd just like to be able to start the game without being in the middle of combat so I can build a connection to the game, the characters and the world.


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#101516
laurelinvanyar

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*dons tin foil hat*

 

Theory One:

Archdemons aren't corrupted by normal darkspawn. They can only be corrupted by their corresponding High Priest. Either that, or the High Priests were the only ones outside of the Wardens to know where, exactly, in the deep dark their own gods were buried. 

The darkspawn dig in the vague direction of the call, and the remaining Magisters take control of large groups and direct them to the real target. This was mostly inspired by the fact that the Architect was once Urthemiel's High Priest, and he was the one to corrupt him in the end. I enjoy the poetry of it.

Theory Two:

The Old God beneath the Western Approach is still there, and is probably Razikale.

While I don't know many spoilers about Jaws of Haakon

Spoiler
Then there's the business with the Weisshaupt Wardens, the First Warden in Last Flight investigating blood magic and subversion within Warden ranks going back centuries, and so on and so forth. This all feels like the foreshadowing to Razikale making a big entrance in a coming up DA game, which I'm all in favor for. Especially if the corresponding Magister, the Augur of Mystery, shows up. :D

As for Razikale or Lusacan being beneath the Western Approach: The Wardens have many outposts throughout the south. While demon-summoning and blood sacrifice is shady enough for them to retreat to their most isolated and abandoned outpost, the urgency of their Calling coming means I'd doubt they'd want to go very far from their first target. They've set up in the Western Approach for privacy, to build their auxiliary demon forces, and then to head a short distance to crack open Razikale's prison. I've heard reports of people seeing a flash of something draconic and hearing strange sounds from the collapsed mine, which is deliciously creepy. 

After playing JoH I started looking through all the Razikale stuff just left lying around the base game. There's a LOT of it. I'm pretty sure it's Razikale in the Western Approach and Lusacan under the Waking Sea (if that doesn't get retconned too). It would be incredibly sad if it took the corresponding priest to wake the archdemon. :( Imagine if Corypheus were responsible for tainting the very god he tried so hard to serve. But I'm not convinced that's the case. The Blight predates the magisters' ritual, and something or someone was hounding Corypheus day and night to go to the Golden City (which was probably already the Black City imho). There's some kind of intelligence behind the Blight that doesn't need specific magisters to spread it, they only needed the magisters to breach the Fade. 

 

I seen this on the scuttlebut part of the forum, has a little bit on the Old Gods. Doesn't really answer your questions but I thought it was cool.

Spoiler

I'm not really sure if I should be nicking other people's photos, but I don't see the harm in it. 

This is super awesome! I always knew Kardol was a badass! 

 

Another thing I found to back up my half-baked plot bunny is that dragons are said to be highly resistant to the Blight. Whatever the Old Gods are, they're certainly very draconic in appearance.  :lol: And yeah, I don't really believe it either at this point, but i find the line of thought interesting.

That entry about Kardol landing in an Archdemon prison is great. Maybe I misread, but it seems to imply that there's something of the Archdemon left there? Did the darkspawn drag the corpse away from the battlefield?

And again, I feel like Bioware's foreshadowing some big revelations about the Old Gods. Who put them in chains? How powerful would you have to be to subdue seven dragon gods and bury them beneath the earth? The fact that it's in the Deep Roads and the dwarf empire as apparently up to all kinds of mischief makes me suspect a combination of ancient dwarves and the Titans.

Again, there's that codex that seems to imply that Titans are sustained by dragon blood. Maybe they were ancient titan power sources, kept chained underground?


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#101517
freelovefreeway

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Okay, you meet Corypheus for the first time in Haven and he says:

 

"no longer beg at the feet of the invisible"

"I once breached the fade in the name of another to serve the old gods of the empire"

"for a thousand years I was confused"

"I have seen the throne of the gods and it was empty"

"find another way to give this world a nation and god it requires"

 

Seems pretty spelled out to me. It's all there to think about and take to well-rounded, sympathetic conclusions if you want to think about it. Need to be bluntly told to think about it?

 

Cassandra, Leliana--huge crisis of faith with the loss of the divine and the role of the chantry.

Sera--huge crisis of faith in terms of it everything possibly being real real.

Iron Bull--big decision about the Qun and his role within it.

Solas--actual god ((and crisis about how he views his followers (anti-followers?) and what his role/duty as a god should mean to the world))

 

Those are central conflicts for a lot of important characters. The chantry is remade. Elven Religion is completely turned on its head. There are giant arrows pointing to a giant sign that reads, "Pay attention to gods, religion, beliefs, questioning beliefs, changing beliefs, distortions of beliefs, impacts of believing those beliefs."

 

Every time anyone talks about Corypheus it is in the context of him wanting to be a god. Do they really need to go into the reasons for it every time as well or the writers' didn't do him justice?

 

One last end of game reminder and last words from Corypheus himself:

"Dumat! Ancient Ones! I beseech you! If you exist--if you ever truly existed--aid me now!"

 

I was going to go into a whole, "some stories require analysis for deeper meaning" and "different levels of reader effort" speech--there are good straightforward stories, but just because a story isn't straightforward doesn't mean it's sloppy. But, in terms of Corypheus, it's all right there. Surface level. Corypheus doesn't have a lot of lines, sure, and I understand the resulting frustration because of that, but he made his motivations pretty clear.

 

There has to be a balance of information between people who don't care about any of it and people that want to theorycraft about dwarves. The main villain shouldn't be one of those balanced points, but I don't think he is. He explains himself when you meet him. There are more details for those who want them and look elsewhere, yes, but that doesn't mean it wasn't explained enough throughout the main game as well.


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#101518
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 The game does manage to handle some book to game transitions pretty well.  Cole, for example.  He has an ingame introduction where we see (on both paths) how odd he is, and in Skyhold he has optinal but extensive dialouge about the events of Asunder.  Both his personal quest and war table mission are related to Asunder but we're given enough context in game to care about the outcomes.  (I did read Asunder first, though, so I may not be the best judge of this).

 

Speaking as someone who only read Asunder very recently, itis handled very well. Yet, I also felt like I understood enough to play through Wicked Eyes and still care about the outcome. I loved that entire mission so much, it convinced me to buy and read The Masked Empire. Not because I felt what was in game was completely insufficient, but because I wanted more.

 

Asunder filled in things I didn't know or have the details of (though Cole's  in game story is told pretty well, but Asunder gave me even more Cole feels than I already had). It spoiled things the smallest bit since obviously his war table missions have Rhys & Evangeline together, but the book was still very satisfying. Also, Shale.


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#101519
Caddius

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Spoiler

Someday PoE will go on sale on Steam.

That day I will celebrate with wine, women, and song until the download finishes. (It's going to be an expensive two weeks on my Internet.  :lol: )

I was thinking of making a dwarf wizard in Sandal's honor. :D All of the classes sounded interesting, though.


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#101520
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<3 So adorable:

http://liliumsnow.de...ime-2-532697605


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#101521
Caddius

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After playing JoH I started looking through all the Razikale stuff just left lying around the base game. There's a LOT of it. I'm pretty sure it's Razikale in the Western Approach and Lusacan under the Waking Sea (if that doesn't get retconned too). It would be incredibly sad if it took the corresponding priest to wake the archdemon. :( Imagine if Corypheus were responsible for tainting the very god he tried so hard to serve. But I'm not convinced that's the case. The Blight predates the magisters' ritual, and something or someone was hounding Corypheus day and night to go to the Golden City (which was probably already the Black City imho). There's some kind of intelligence behind the Blight that doesn't need specific magisters to spread it, they only needed the magisters to breach the Fade. 

 

This is super awesome! I always knew Kardol was a badass! 

 

Again, there's that codex that seems to imply that Titans are sustained by dragon blood. Maybe they were ancient titan power sources, kept chained underground?

High-five. :D *high fives*

Dragon blood is incredibly potent and is used for all kinds of magical mischief. And it makes more sense than the distant Maker throwing down the Old Gods for subverting his worship, and yet being fine with their worship continuing. (It's very interesting that the Tevinter Imperium worshiped imprisoned gods. Or did they just think that the gods were creatures of the Fade? I need more Old God information.) If the Titans captured and used dragon gods as batteries, I've got nothing but mad respect for them.  :wub:

It's Riordan who mentions the Waking Sea one, isn't it?

So, assuming that the Archdemons rise up in the same relative kingdom that they were imprisoned in, (they can only take the must of the Deep Roads for so long  ^_^ ) here's where they were imprisoned beneath:

Dumat: Somewhere in the Deep Roads. :P He puts up with dust for over a decade as they dismantle the dwarven empire.  Probably in the North, as the darkspawn take awhile to mess with the Alamari, and the concentration of veterans and the Wardens is in the Anderfels and the Tevinter homeland.

Zazikel: Anderfels. Interesting, I believe the Abyssal Rift in the Western Approach happened at this time as well.

Toth: Nevarra and the rest of the Free Marches.

Andoral: The Northeast and Northwest of Thedas. Anderfels and Antiva, specifically. This implies that the Archdemons are strategic enough to not just pop out of the ground.

Urthemiel: Ferelden. Strategically the best location for a Blight at the time. Very wise placement. Turned out badly.

Razikale: Believed to be under the Western Approach. A good location for a horde build up, similar to the Korcari Wilds.

Lusacan: Under the Waking Sea. Either a long walk through the Deep Roads or a rather metal opening scene of flying through rock and through the Waking Sea. In the middle of Orlais, Nevarra, Ferelden, and the Free Marches. Probably will try to find a better spot to build, unless the darkspawn want to develop a navy and become rivals to the Felicisima Armada.  :lol: The Architect could rock a pirate hat.

...So they've convinced me that the Archdemons don't pop up where their prisons are.  :lol: Kardol's points to a prison having been in Ferelden.


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#101522
NightSymphony

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I have to share this again, because I seriously can not get enough of Gareth David-Lloyd's voice and I know most of you feel the same.  Everyone here knows he has a rock band right?

 

This is my favorite song they do.

http://bluegillespie...rack/the-fergal


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#101523
CapricornSun

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Another art break. :P

 

First off, some delicious NSFW Solavellan art by osatokun. (Dread Wolf take me...)

 

Fun with the Black Emporium. xD 

 

"I hope he loved me as much as he loved the Fade."

 

Just two adorable nerds. ;)

 

Another comic of Solas, Lavellan, and tea. :P

 

Solas in fancy robes.

 

Dragon Age sketch dump.

 

The DA:I gang wearing onesies/kigurumis. 

Spoiler

 

"You have my deepest respect." Solas/f!Trevelyan


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#101524
Cee

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I really want WoT2.

 

*looks at monthly budget*

 

Digtal version is $18 but I think this needs to be real and in my hands. So I will probably wait.



#101525
Sable Rhapsody

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I really want WoT2.

 

*looks at monthly budget*

 

Digtal version is $18 but I think this needs to be real and in my hands. So I will probably wait.

 

I just got mine, and it's a huge book.  My boyfriend actually thought it was a board game when it arrived because it was in a game-sized box and really heavy.  Definitely worth the physical copy.