I once got a banter with Solas and Dorian right after clicking on an ocularum. Solas's voice with the whispery oculara sound distortion is really, really creepy.
Happened to me as well. I appreciate the work of the sound design team in those moments because of the distance and distortion. It's still all creepy though.
Yes, but that's not the issue? I was discussing Sebastian's actions against Kirkwall in retribution for Anders, never his wanting vengeance on Anders.
...
My issue with Solas is that he knows better than to kill people for their ignorance, when he's a god from the dawn of time and they're puny mortal mages messing with forces beyond their ken. His killing them isn't for the better, but it's improper 'justice' and vengeance aimed at the people.
...
On the one hand, if Sebastian is trying to conquer Kirkwall to punish them for Anders' killing Elthina, he's an idiot and I have zero respect for him. But it's starting to sound more like that's not the case. I bow to your better understanding of Sebastian.
But you replied to me speaking about being driven by vengeance. Don't expect me to know that you didn't actually refer to what you replied to. 
I generally don't like lynch justice, simply because "no good can come of this". But IF I allow one person to kill for vengeance, I should apply the same rules to others and not say "Solas has good reason to kill the mages but Sebastian is wrong". When you said "Solas's killing is more justified", I thought you meant Solas's vengeance were more acceptable.
The second part I quoted I either misunderstand (because previously you found it justified) or I agree. This rubs me the wrong way about his quest (among other things). He should know better, it seems so unlike him (or his current self?), and it doesn't help anybody.
About Seb, yes yes, finally my capabilities as a tactician and strategist are recognized.
I don't know his motivations, but there's the following points.
And before somebody points it out: yeah, I could be all wrong. 
This rubs me the wrong way about his quest (among other things). He should know better, it seems so unlike him (or his current self?), and it doesn't help anybody.
I took it that Solas wasn't exactly himself during that quest. He imagined Wisdom being controlled and/or tortured for information she had by evil villains he could fight against, but then it turned out that she was being twisted entirely due to ignorant, scared mages? After that, he's in mourning.
I've never lost anyone so I can't empathize completely, but I don't think it's that much of a stretch to realize he's all over the place at that point and reacts badly. Could we say the same for Sebastien and that he's reacting similarly? I never got his DLC and I killed Anders, so I didn't really understand why this dude was marching in on Kirkwall. I don't know. x)
So, I've been gone from this thread for a while, so please forgive me if this has been brought up before, but I was reading the Chant of Light chapter in World of Thedas Volume 2 and it mentions that the Canticle of Shartan looks like it might not only be based on the events of Shartan/the slave rebellion at the time, but it also incorporates earlier lore the elves had about a "rebellion against tyrants led by a trickster-warrior".
Just thought it was interesting. 
Also, now I'm wondering what parts exactly are the older stuff? The speech Shartan gives in the canticle to the elves thinking about turning back sounds like something Solas would say, imo, so I could see that actually being from way back when in the days of Arlathan instead of actually from Shartan, himself.
And this continuation/incorporation of Fen'Harel's story into the Canticle of Shartan tells me that he was still loved by the People even in the days of Andraste. Which explains all the wolf statues everywhere they settled down south later on, too. Then there's that codex about how the word "harel" used to mean something more positive 800 years ago in the Dales than the negative definition of "betrayer" that it has nowadays.
Fen'Harel being hated and seen as the root of all ills is a relatively recent development (the last 800 years). I wonder why, exactly. I know that's when the Dales fell and all, but why is that event the straw that broke the camel's back and made everyone hate him?
EDIT: I'll add the canticle text I mean later. Or someone else can. I'm not anywhere near my book at the moment. >_>
I've never lost anyone so I can't empathize completely, but I don't think it's that much of a stretch to realize he's all over the place at that point and reacts badly. Could we say the same for Sebastien and that he's reacting similarly? I never got his DLC and I killed Anders, so I didn't really understand why this dude was marching in on Kirkwall. I don't know. x)
That's the point, it is pretty much the same.
We meet Sebastian because he's looking for a merch to take out the goons who killed his family.
Then we learn how he was sent to the Chantry to become a more acceptable representative of his social circles. Grand Cleric Ethenia acts a bit like a surrogate mother there, always trying to calm him down and comfort him instead of fuelling his grief. Then Anders snaps, the Chantry goes boom and Grand Cleric Ethenia is only dust in the wind. So, basically, Seb is hit hard by both, losing her and seeing the Chantry attacked, which had been his safe place. He demands Anders must die, and if Hawke says nope, he walks away in anger.
I've never lost anyone so I can't empathize completely, but I don't think it's that much of a stretch to realize he's all over the place at that point and reacts badly. Could we say the same for Sebastien and that he's reacting similarly? I never got his DLC and I killed Anders, so I didn't really understand why this dude was marching in on Kirkwall. I don't know. x)
If Anders is dead, your war table mission should have Seb sending troops to Kirkwall to help bolster the city's defenses and provide humanitarian aid. He only invades Kirkwall with the intent of conquering if you spared Anders.
If Anders is dead, your war table mission should have Seb sending troops to Kirkwall to help bolster the city's defenses and provide humanitarian aid. He only invades Kirkwall with the intent of conquering if you spared Anders.
There's a reason why he's Best Andrastian Archer. 
(Leliana is Best Nightingale).
There's a reason why he's Best Andrastian Archer.
(Leliana is Best Nightingale).
He's still behind anyone in the last 3 games who happened to be Andrastian and an archer.
There's a reason why he's Best Andrastian Archer.
(Leliana is Best Nightingale).
Fenris: Best Chestpuncher
Architect: Best Magister
Cullen: Best...Hair?
He's still behind anyone in the last 3 games who happened to be Andrastian and an archer.
There are no words for how wrong you are, Keith©siha
There are no words for how wrong you are, Keith©siha
There are no words for how wrong you are, Keith©siha
I pretty much never let characters take revenge if there's another option. The comparison with Sebastian and Solas is apt. It's not okay in either scenario.
Semi-related -
Sera's mission where she killed the noble I was questioning, the fact the game takes that out of your hands, that was both good and bad. I hated it, but it was also a moment where player control could be lost, and that's sometimes interesting from a player perspective. Not if it goes on too long or determines whole outcomes, but in parts.
Though she does warn you and on subsequent plays, you can control the situation better. The first time, she really angered me and I told her to watch herself.
Ehehe. I dig that.
I've been adding the © since it was first brough up.
I was wondering when you'd notice.
I've been adding the © since it was first brough up.
I was wondering when you'd notice.
I already commented on it once before. But I am vain enough to bring it up more often.
Well, just found out that Sebastian's voice actor supports Tottenham. He is now my favourite character.
You're a man of principles.
You're a man of principles.
Well, just found out that Sebastian's voice actor supports Tottenham. He is now my favourite character.
Seb's VA is also Paul Atriedes. So, you know, walk without rhythm and all that
If Anders is dead, your war table mission should have Seb sending troops to Kirkwall to help bolster the city's defenses and provide humanitarian aid. He only invades Kirkwall with the intent of conquering if you spared Anders.
Ah, that's what I get for barely looking at the text when I had a dead Anders and assume it would be the same. x) Previous PTs with DA:)/DA2 only happening in the Keep only, and I always let Anders live for some reason. My canon PT has a very much dead Anders though.
That's the point, it is pretty much the same.
We meet Sebastian because he's looking for a merch to take out the goons who killed his family.
Then we learn how he was sent to the Chantry to become a more acceptable representative of his social circles. Grand Cleric Ethenia acts a bit like a surrogate mother there, always trying to calm him down and comfort him instead of fuelling his grief. Then Anders snaps, the Chantry goes boom and Grand Cleric Ethenia is only dust in the wind. So, basically, Seb is hit hard by both, losing her and seeing the Chantry attacked, which had been his safe place. He demands Anders must die, and if Hawke says nope, he walks away in anger.
That's... pretty cool actually. 
I just couldn't justify spending more money on a character DLC than I did on the actual game itself (DLCs are still full price on the old BSN site. ;_; Can't buy them anywhere else as far as I'm aware). When I do another run on DA2 I'll have to pick it up though.
Edit: Oh damn, Top? Erm... Not Solas, but related to above comment:
http://snugglenug.tu...k-down-hawke-on
So, I've been gone from this thread for a while, so please forgive me if this has been brought up before, but I was reading the Chant of Light chapter in World of Thedas Volume 2 and it mentions that the Canticle of Shartan looks like it might not only be based on the events of Shartan/the slave rebellion at the time, but it also incorporates earlier lore the elves had about a "rebellion against tyrants led by a trickster-warrior".
Just thought it was interesting.
And this continuation/incorporation of Fen'Harel's story into the Canticle of Shartan tells me that he was still loved by the People even in the days of Andraste. Which explains all the wolf statues everywhere they settled down south later on, too. Then there's that codex about how the word "harel" used to mean something more positive 800 years ago in the Dales than the negative definition of "betrayer" that it has nowadays.
Fen'Harel being hated and seen as the root of all ills is a relatively recent development (the last 800 years). I wonder why, exactly. I know that's when the Dales fell and all, but why is that event the straw that broke the camel's back and made everyone hate him?
EDIT: I'll add the canticle text I mean later. Or someone else can. I'm not anywhere near my book at the moment. >_>
Parts of Shartan's story are missing, and I bet they're going to be really telling. You know how he advises Sera on Red Jenny activities? And you know how in-game theories go that Shartan wasn't a single man but an idea? If we hold to reason that Solas pulled a Red Jenny with Shartan (to protect himself and the principles of their cause) then it's possible it was one of his other Shartan 'decoys' that fell with the people later on. I'm unsure as to the exact timeline of events between the stories of him betraying the gods and everything else... but the wolf statue theories are definitely interesting.
Also I do wonder if Andraste turned a bit... crazy... in the end. This harks back to my question if she reminded anyone else of a spirit. There's some wonderful drama to be thought up if you regard her tale with that of Maferath and his right hand man, Havard (the one who brought her ashes back to Thedas). Think what you will, Maferath had a lot of sense and was probably the good guy in the end -- and then his life went to hell because of what he had to do.
Also random question: I was reading about the blights and Tevinter: When did the Blights start, when did the whole Tevinter/Andraste thing start? How distant was that from the Magisters and the Black City? Were there darkspawn always, or did they only just start recording Blights once they began killing the Old Gods and having a time of reprieve?
Also I do wonder if Andraste turned a bit... crazy... in the end. This harks back to my question if she reminded anyone else of a spirit. There's some wonderful drama to be thought up if you regard her tale with that of Maferath and his right hand man, Havard (the one who brought her ashes back to Thedas). Think what you will, Maferath had a lot of sense and was probably the good guy in the end -- and then his life went to hell because of what he had to do.
Well, you don't have to be a spirit (or possessed) to be a fanatic. Just look at Adrian or Lord Seeker Lambert from Asunder. Or Meredith; even before the lyrium idol, she wasn't all there. The impression I got was that Andraste got wound up in her own legend. The same thing can happen to any of the DA PCs, especially the Inquisitor.
I do have all the Maferath feels now. Poor guy 
Well, you don't have to be a spirit (or possessed) to be a fanatic. Just look at Adrian or Lord Seeker Lambert from Asunder. Or Meredith; even before the lyrium idol, she wasn't all there. The impression I got was that Andraste got wound up in her own legend. The same thing can happen to any of the DA PCs, especially the Inquisitor.
I do have all the Maferath feels now. Poor guy
Yeah, totally true. I dunno, I keep thinking back to what happened between her and her sister (following lights, fire, death, and suddenly she started hearing voices). Combine that with being so singular in her goals and I get weird vibes. But yes, could definitely be self involvement and fanaticism to blame!
Edit: haha same wave length, lizasaurus
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