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Solas Thread - NOW OFFICIALLY MOVED to Cyonan's BSN (link in OP)


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#101626
Caddius

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Yeah, so this totally answers my question. I was just waiting for a post like this. :D

 

One mountain to rule them all.  :D

 

This brings me to another speculation point: what about the ruins in the Dalish origin? With elven gods in a human building and a tunnel leading to the dwarven kingdom? Or some such? That could be a thing of Arlathan, though I highly doubt it considering the history up till that point, but if that predates all of this... i.e. perhaps primeval thaig time...?

 

All wild speculation, of course, just tossing it in.  :whistle:

SOME WEIRD CRAP IS GOING ON IN THE BRECILIAN RUINS.

The Elder Tree and Zathrian both drop some big hints, as does the Arcane Warrior spirit. 

"Who destroyed this place? Was it the humans?"

"No. It was they who built this place, long ago."

I think that's how the AW dialogue went. He remembers fighting something strange, and a lot of imagery that sounded vaguely interesting back in 2009 and is very concerning in 2015. The Elder Tree talks about the Brecilian Forest was tended to by the Arlathan elves, and there was some human and elven mingling. Makes sense. The Neromenian Migration was a long time before the Fall of Arlathan. There was plenty of time for different human cultures to interact with elven civilization in a myriad of ways. But it's still disconcerting. The dwarves are always enigmatic in DA. Cadash Thaig sheltered Arlathan refugees and was exterminated by Kal'Sharok to preserve the alliance, and it appears that there may have been trade contact and occasional violence between the Surface and Underground empires of ancient days.

Arlathan is well-established before the human migration, so I'm willing to believe that this was a colony or independent state of Arlathan. It's part of the Eluvian Network as well.


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#101627
Cee

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I am so lost with all of these book (?) posts. I need this.


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#101628
ChuChu

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The Blight itself clearly predates the Magisters. We see red lyrium in the Primeval Thaig (which is probably older than Arlathan itself) and there's plenty of theories about the Pantheon (Andruil, mostly) being blighted. 

 

The First Blight (recorded Blight with an archdemon) starts pretty much right after the ritual to send the magisters into the Golden/Black City, a little more than 1000 years before the Dragon Age. 

 

As for Solas=Shartan...I'm certainly open to Shartan building his rebellion in the steps of Fen'Harel (who, up until this point has not made the transition from "noble rebel" to "traitor"). As for Solas himself being Shartan, I'd really like to see the text. My WoT2 hasn't shipped yet Q.Q

Yes. I share the theory that the pantheon was dealing with blight (and probably something to do with them being sealed off). 

I think some of you mentioned this earlier -- but why do we think that the old fancy Thaig may predate Arlathan? There are golems and altars of Dumat in the thaig, that's the only reason I wonder. It predates the Memories, to be sure. And on a similar note... with the altars of Dumat in the thaig, and the weird architecture/magical sense, as well as the red lyrium... perhaps there's a connection between blight, blood magic, dwarves, and old gods. Gryphons were once all wiped out thanks to blood magic. Maybe dwarves lost their magic in a horrible experiment too? And if lyrium/red lyrium is what the Profane ate when they say 'feasted on the gods'... and there are altars of Dumat in the thaig... and magic was used in the Thaig... is there a connection there I'm missing?

TIN FOIL HAT TIME: I only bring up the timeline because the text says Tevinter was dealing with darkspawn when they attacked Thedas, and certain things the darkspawn did ended up helping Andraste by 'sheer coincidence'. This information comes from the wiki since I can't dig through codexes and the WoT myself at the moment, but: 800 TE: magisters and darkspawn. 1000 TE: Dumat defeated, darkspawn retreat underground and wreak havoc on the deep roads. My guesstimate is that give or take a few years, around the time that Dumat was defeated was when Andraste and her sister are born. I say that because about 28 years after the Blight, Andraste begins her crusade. There were still a lot of Darkspawn wreaking havoc in the deep roads at this time. If one really wanted to push it, they could make a connection between Andraste and Dumat, couldn't they? That's really really pushing it, I know. But it fuels my hunger for a timeline.

Added: And the timeline link Caddius shared confirms the Dumat/Andraste events lining up. My guess is YOU ALL ALREADY KNEW THAT. But I'm just now sinking my teeth in to the idea. Add in mysterious events happening to her sister... and... -insert suspicious music-

K. Yeah. I need an info graphic to visualize stuff.
 


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#101629
Caddius

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Also worth noting is that Tevinter had suffered a series of massive civil wars and unrest a few centuries before the Black City incident. Much like Rome, it shrugged it off and kept going. Wicked they may be, I have to admire how ridiculously resilient they proved to be. I think by the Dragon Age, they're equal to Rome in longevity (2000 years, give or take.) Unlike Rome, they managed to remain an empire and retain their homeland at the 2000 point.  :lol: (To be fair, if you're going to be reduced to one city from a massive empire, who wouldn't pick the Queen of Cities?)

I think if Andraste or the force behind her had something to do with the Blight, the whole Exalted March was improv after Dumat's death.

There are people more into and with a lot more evidence than I when it comes to the Mythal/Dumat/Andraste theories. :) I'm waiting for one of them to drop a lore-bomb on us all. Probably as soon as I run out of likes, knowing my luck.  :lol:



#101630
ChuChu

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Alright, it's happening. Project Timeline has begun.

Get it, too much 'TIME' on my hands? Solas, you're so witty.

 

timeline.jpg


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#101631
Caddius

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Alright, it's happening. Project Timeline has begun.

Get it, too much 'TIME' on my hands? Solas, you're so witty.

 

 

I remember when I first said those words. *wipes away tear*

Shine on, you crazy diamond.  :D

*after two hours, picture loads*

Ooh. :D I like the look of that timeline.

For my own sanity, I usually divide the Ancient Age into Arlathan and Tevinter, but I think the Chantry just uses Ancient?  :huh:



#101632
ChuChu

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I remember when I first said those words. *wipes away tear*

Shine on, you crazy diamond.  :D

*after two hours, picture loads*

Ooh. :D I like the look of that timeline.

For my own sanity, I usually divide the Ancient Age into Arlathan and Tevinter, but I think the Chantry just uses Ancient?  :huh:

Don't worry! I'm trained in the arts of being concise. It won't be... TOO big... but will have the big events covered :D



#101633
ChuChu

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For my own sanity, I usually divide the Ancient Age into Arlathan and Tevinter, but I think the Chantry just uses Ancient?  :huh:

I'm trying to have all three in the same image. It looks focused on Chantry calendar because it's prettier that way. We'll see if it works out!


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#101634
CapricornSun

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I made the mistake of visiting this TV Tropes page for DA:I and of course reading the parts involving Solas sent me into a hellspiral again. (Because with all this talk of him dying alone and that his ultimate endgame means he likely will die, why wouldn't I be sad?)

 

I may have shed a tear or two. *sniff*

 

Let me just say that I can't wait, and at the same time, I'm scared for the day when a Solas DLC will be announced. Scared because I'm nervous to find out on what will happen to him.  :(


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#101635
Caddius

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Don't worry! I'm trained in the arts of being concise. It won't be... TOO big... but will have the big events covered :D

I'm...I'm as opposite as you can be.  :lol:


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#101636
Cee

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I made the mistake of visiting this TV Tropes page for DA:I and of course reading the parts involving Solas sent me into a hellspiral again. (Because with all this talk of him dying alone and that his ultimate endgame means he likely will die, why wouldn't I be sad?)

 

I may have shed a tear or two. *sniff*

 

Let me just say that I can't wait, and at the same time, I'm scared for the day when a Solas DLC will be announced. Scared because I'm nervous to find out on what will happen to him.  :(

 

That was me about two nights ago. Come into the blanket fort. I have ice cream.
 


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#101637
Illyria

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Hmm, fascinating stuff. Ok, this definitely seems like the Gauntlet, yet I'm still wondering about it in a more literal sense.

 

Plus there's more here which piques my interest:

 

First, nine mountains? Why nine? What are the other eight?

 

Second, "Our Lady ascended [...] in the Realm of Dreams forever" could be more than merely a metaphor for death; it could actually mean the Fade literally. (I know I keep going on about the Fade.)

 

Third, "passing through the fire" is something that we literally do in Origins at the end of the Gauntlet. Of course, this being in the cadence of prophecy, we cannot always take things literally... yet that simultaneously means the opposite sometimes. This leads me to more questions than answers really. I'm still unsure about the riddle room in the Gauntlet. Maferath says "A poison of the soul, passion's cruel counterpart; from love she grows till love lies slain. Of what do I speak?" and with the answer "jealousy" he says "Yes, jealousy drove me to betrayal. [...]" etc. What I want to know is: was that Maferath's spirit who just told us that he did indeed betray Andraste out of jealousy? Or is this element of the Gauntlet a creation of disciples after the true events, i.e. he never participated in its creation?

 

I want to know because that would be data to analyze if this were a true quote from Maferath, whereas if it is merely a specter of what they imagined Maferath was and what lies in his heart, it is meaningless. If this is truth and Maferath actually participated in some magical "recording" to protect the ashes of his betrayed love, then I would want to start thinking about whether he said that to protect the plan and take the fall as it was "ordained," or whether he actually betrayed her.

 

Anyway. *cough* This isn't my area of expertise, so go easy on the rookie.  :D

 

Speaking of expertise, no takers on my alchemy theory? *sniff*  :crying:

 

I've been skipping a lot of posts that referenced WOT2 because my copy hadn't arrived and I was avoiding spoilers.  What's your alchemy theory?
 


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#101638
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...

 

I adore how you draw. Are you sure you don't have any place online where I can see more of your works?


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#101639
Gwyvian

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The spirits turn into Ash Wraiths if combat is initiated. Disciples are mentioned as having sacrificed themselves in the Temple to become Ash Wraiths and guard the Temple. Thing is, the Temple was founded thirty years after Andraste died and her followers were scattered. It's possible that the spirits of the dead followers were drawn to the combination of Andraste's Ashes and the one mountain singularity of lyrium weirdness going on, but I think it's more likely that they're Cultists of Andraste playing a role. Maybe. Crap. I think the Guardian is either actually the preserved man, or a spirit of faith imitating him out of respect. I always thought he was Harvard until I got my head out of my ass and realized you talk to 'Harvard' as part of the riddle game.

I'll bet you anything that the volcano that probably took out Barindur was Elgar'nan's sacred mountain.

"GET. OFF. MY. LAWN. *BOOM!*"  :o

 

I can totally buy Andraste deliberately martyring herself as a way of not losing the empire they've already built, making their religion solid, and screwing over Tevinter. *snip*

 

It's totally plausible that these are spirits akin to Cole, as is the cultist theory for the riddle room ghosts; for the Guardian, I'm inclined to believe that there is some hocus pocus keeping at least part of the essence of an original follower alive - he mentions that others were there, too, but they "fell silent." I'm minded of the Avaar statue brothers in Awakening, who basically "slumber" for an eternity despite being trapped there.

 

I'm thinking - if Andraste was half as clever as I think she was, then her death would have been kind of part of the plan; I could even imagine that after a life full of such burdens dying could even have been something she wanted. The important thing is how. Of course, it could also be true that things really did go down the way that the Chantry taught it (but I really like being skeptical of the status quo opinion).

 

Anyway, the riddle room ties my brain in a knot because it's too simple and yet too complex - I would by the theory of the spirits of Andraste's disciples being drawn to her resting place, except that all the key figures are accounted for. What are the chances that all those people felt so strongly about this that they would go there upon their deaths? Shartan in particular - according to the scant Dalish lore we hear in Origins, and after the riddle room especially, I got the impression that the elven uprising was more nicely coinciding with Andraste's march rather than the elves becoming devout believers. After all, after Andraste was gone, the elves gravitated back towards rediscovering and rebuilding their own religious roots. So what gives?

 

SOME WEIRD CRAP IS GOING ON IN THE BRECILIAN RUINS.

The Elder Tree and Zathrian both drop some big hints, as does the Arcane Warrior spirit. 

"Who destroyed this place? Was it the humans?"

"No. It was they who built this place, long ago."

I think that's how the AW dialogue went. He remembers fighting something strange, and a lot of imagery that sounded vaguely interesting back in 2009 and is very concerning in 2015. The Elder Tree talks about the Brecilian Forest was tended to by the Arlathan elves, and there was some human and elven mingling. Makes sense. The Neromenian Migration was a long time before the Fall of Arlathan. There was plenty of time for different human cultures to interact with elven civilization in a myriad of ways. But it's still disconcerting. The dwarves are always enigmatic in DA. Cadash Thaig sheltered Arlathan refugees and was exterminated by Kal'Sharok to preserve the alliance, and it appears that there may have been trade contact and occasional violence between the Surface and Underground empires of ancient days.

Arlathan is well-established before the human migration, so I'm willing to believe that this was a colony or independent state of Arlathan. It's part of the Eluvian Network as well.

 

Yes. Yes indeed. The thing is, I think this is just as cyclical as what I've seen in other similar stories (*cough* Wheel of Time once again prominent among them *cough*), there could have been even several attempts to get the right mesh between elves, humans and dwarves. What is to say that there weren't colossal conflicts between their peoples before? It could even be truly at the root of a whole lot of events that are more "modern," including the fall of the elves and their subjugation, the destruction of various thaigs... I'm still really curious about the primeval thaig and how it connects to all of this. That place doesn't make sense in the context of everything we know about dwarves dating back to right before the First Blight.

 

Yes. I share the theory that the pantheon was dealing with blight (and probably something to do with them being sealed off). 

I think some of you mentioned this earlier -- but why do we think that the old fancy Thaig may predate Arlathan? There are golems and altars of Dumat in the thaig, that's the only reason I wonder. It predates the Memories, to be sure. And on a similar note... with the altars of Dumat in the thaig, and the weird architecture/magical sense, as well as the red lyrium... perhaps there's a connection between blight, blood magic, dwarves, and old gods. Gryphons were once all wiped out thanks to blood magic. Maybe dwarves lost their magic in a horrible experiment too? And if lyrium/red lyrium is what the Profane ate when they say 'feasted on the gods'... and there are altars of Dumat in the thaig... and magic was used in the Thaig... is there a connection there I'm missing?

*snip*

 

In connection to the previous thought: I think it predates Arlathan because we have at least a spotty idea of who the dwarves were in the past during the blights and a little before maybe, based on the few excavations we know of. If there are human/elven artifacts in dwarven lands, I think that does indicate a connection between the blight, blood magic, dwarves and the Old Gods as you say - it's just that it doesn't make sense in terms of the dwarven context I know (which I'm ready to admit is probably even more limited than that of all the rest of you who have pondered this longer than I).

 

Also worth noting is that Tevinter had suffered a series of massive civil wars and unrest a few centuries before the Black City incident. Much like Rome, it shrugged it off and kept going. Wicked they may be, I have to admire how ridiculously resilient they proved to be. I think by the Dragon Age, they're equal to Rome in longevity (2000 years, give or take.) Unlike Rome, they managed to remain an empire and retain their homeland at the 2000 point.  :lol: (To be fair, if you're going to be reduced to one city from a massive empire, who wouldn't pick the Queen of Cities?)

I think if Andraste or the force behind her had something to do with the Blight, the whole Exalted March was improv after Dumat's death.

There are people more into and with a lot more evidence than I when it comes to the Mythal/Dumat/Andraste theories. :) I'm waiting for one of them to drop a lore-bomb on us all. Probably as soon as I run out of likes, knowing my luck.  :lol:

 

Rome. <3 (I know that was a terribly substantial comment.)

 

I've been skipping a lot of posts that referenced WOT2 because my copy hadn't arrived and I was avoiding spoilers.  What's your alchemy theory?
 

 

I'm so glad you asked. :wizard: *smug* This is what I wrote on the subject (including the furthering of the elemental theory!):

 

Yes, yes. In that vein it could even be along the lines of oriental elements: wood and iron coming to mind especially. Added to this spirit would obviously be the connecting force, i.e. the Fade, which connects to all the elements (i.e. peoples) in different ways, explaining the vastly different experience that the races have with the Fade. (I'm still very convinced that the Fade is Tel'aran'rhiod by the way.) Dwarves cannot connect directly, i.e. they do not dream, they are the representation of solid earth; elves have a kind of affinity, which I think is indicated by how they were able to possibly manipulate "Fade-pockets" like the Crossroads between the Eluvians. Humans find it more unnatural to exist in a place like that, yet they do have a connection to the Fade. Also, perception: generally the human viewpoint is dominant now, taking Thedas history into light, which means that the Fade is treated with the same kind of projection-based categorization, i.e. their view on demons being demons. They go in there with solid expectations and the Fade bends to their perceptions, plus they approach it with fear, the concept of "othering." I'd imagine that (taking Solas' hints into consideration) the elves had a very different way of merely approaching such matters, let alone experiencing them. Plus their whole identity is built around "fluidity" you could say. Ok, enough of that, I'll get back to it later.

 

I'm all in there with alchemy in a broader sense, too (when I was Dungeon Master for Vampire roleplays I would torture players with my alchemy knowledge, MWAHAHAHA): the magnum opus. The four basic stages are nigredoalbedocitrinitas and rubedo. Translated into Jungian psychology (yes, I know I always end up here) these stages can be applied on a psyche-level transformation by being the Shadow, the animus/anima, the wise old man/woman archetype and the individuation, respectively. Translating this into Thedas as not a process, but a state of being in a cyclical shifting of powers, the Blight/red lyrium is clearly shadow-matter, i.e. the enemy within. The animus/anima is a representation of the purified soul, i.e. we could consider this the Fade in a sense, spirits and essences. The wise old man/woman - well, the first person who comes to mind is Flemmeth, but also Solas (and perhaps other gods); in fact, this could be a representation of the god-sphere in a sense, as citrinitas is the "solar light" which transcends the differentiation of animus/anima. Finally, the merging of the ego and the Self, true individuation in rubedo, the "distilled" product that goes through the previous 3 stages and is transformed.

 

Yeah, I could theorize on this for ages. I'm probably grasping at straws, though.  :whistle:

*snip*



#101640
Caddius

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Hmm, fascinating stuff. Ok, this definitely seems like the Gauntlet, yet I'm still wondering about it in a more literal sense.

 

Plus there's more here which piques my interest:

 

First, nine mountains? Why nine? What are the other eight?

 

Second, "Our Lady ascended [...] in the Realm of Dreams forever" could be more than merely a metaphor for death; it could actually mean the Fade literally. (I know I keep going on about the Fade.)

Illyria, dodge the WoTII SPOILERS!

 

Chantry doctrine maintains that Andraste ascended to the Fade to live by the Maker's side and look pretty. So I think it's being literal.

However, add in the fact that the elven gods are apparently starting to claw their way back into the Fade, and Felassan's boss operating out of there, you could draw some interesting conclusions by comparing it with some of the theories out there.

The part of the chant about the ancient ones' dreams being devoured by a demon that wanders the Fade. Now that caught my attention

EDIT: *pictured, a substantial comment*

:wub:  :wub:   :wub:  :wub:  :wub: Rome. :wub:  :wub:

And yeah, I'm guessing that in Shartan and the others' case, 'Disciple' meant 'We shall kill the Vints together'. They'd already been waging war on their own for years by that point. And they were only working together about a year before Andraste's death. The mass conversion didn't really work. It's interesting that the elven slaves apparently maintained their own religion, and Tevinter didn't enforce Old God worship, but the Andrastians made sure to tear down their temples and have succeeded in wiping out Creator worship in alienages. Reminds me of how pagan religions were more tolerant, because of their shared roots with the other polytheistic religions, they often just identified it like, "Oh, Wodan? Yeah, we call him Mercury. He shaves when he hangs out with Jupiter. Sorry, I meant Thor." That kind of thing. A giant melting pot of nerds arguing whether or not their god could beat up their god. While a religion like Andrastianism is founded on the principle that the Maker will only return when the entire world sings the Chant. So, they annihilate rivals whenever possible.


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#101641
Illyria

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I'm so glad you asked. :wizard: *smug* This is what I wrote on the subject (including the furthering of the elemental theory!):

 

Very interesting, thank you.  But I'm afraid I don't know much about alchemy (it's something I've always been meaning to research though, what's a good place to start) to contribute in any meaningful way.

 

@Caddius: it's fine.  My copy arrived yesterday and I'm reading it, so coming across spoilers doesn't bother me so much now I can grab my own copy and look it up myself.


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#101642
Gwyvian

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Illyria, dodge the WoTII SPOILERS!

 

Chantry doctrine maintains that Andraste ascended to the Fade to live by the Maker's side and look pretty. So I think it's being literal.

However, add in the fact that the elven gods are apparently starting to claw their way back into the Fade, and Felassan's boss operating out of there, you could draw some interesting conclusions by comparing it with some of the theories out there.

The part of the chant about the ancient ones' dreams being devoured by a demon that wanders the Fade. Now that caught my attention

*snip*

 

Ohh, much better expressed!   :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  Rome!  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  (I like it!)

 

OK, time to really get into the thick of it.

 

I believe it's literal, too. (This is akin to the Heroes of the Horn of Valere waiting in Tel'aran'rhiod - "what better place" as Birgitte put it.) That would mean that the Fade has become kind of like the "layover" to the afterlife. I say layover because I'm having real trouble meshing the religious and anthropological implications of the Fade being the seat of the Maker, the elven gods, a place where spirits dwell and being a place we can enter in dreams naturally and unnaturally in the flesh. ("In the Flesh" also WoT ref. I mean Jordan WoT... I need a new acronym to avoid confusion.) Unless we are misunderstanding the relationship between the "divine" and Thedas in general (which is heavily implied based on Solas' reticence in acknowledging that the gods were actually gods).

 

Yet, there is the reference about where the gods dwell in that same layover sense... I, too, was immediately caught by the dreams of the gods being devoured. That would indicate that it's almost like the Fade is where you enter the dream of the gods (and elves in Uthenera?). Perhaps the Fade is where the spirit body (or astral projection if you will) is meant to roam, which would explain the dream/flesh connection, thus also a place where you encounter divinity. I still strongly believe there is a Collective Unconscious element to it, too, which adds a subconscious layer to it, but keeping in mind that dwarves don't dream or wield magic, there just has to be more than one way to originally connect with the Fade.
 
Not to mention the point I keep bringing up: Solas' mention of a state of existence where the Fade and Thedas coexist, perhaps in a much more intertwined fashion than we would believe. I think that he knows that there is something inherently unnatural about the fact that there is the Veil between the Fade and "reality" - in keeping with the presumption that this is at least partly true, we'd have to rewire our thinking about this entire divinity question being a part of the Fade in a literal sense; or indeed if it is divinity at all, which has already been called into question numerous times here.
 
As to the Maker - there are strong parallels, as you say, to the relationship of pagan/Christian religions - in fact it's almost an exact copy. The "Inquisition" itself, the Crusades (Exalted Marches), the freeing of oppressed people turning into a dogmatic, church-based religion (the Chantry) and the permutations of divisions that followed thereafter. The pagan religions try to exist in harmony because they can, if that is the nature of the given pantheon, that is, and cross-cultural transference is part of the natural order. (Rome!  :wub: ) Just so, belief is fracturing and the Maker is an absent deity who is the One True Deity. Neo-religions springing up after the dogmatic religion establishes its order (elven reconstruction), including different versions (Tevinter Chantry), and as you mentioned, Buddhism and other eastern philosophies (the Qun) existing alongside them, plus shamanistic beliefs extending to all of nature (the Avaar). Just going on this you have the theological history of the human race painted into DA almost picture-perfect. (Which would lend it a lot of predictability, yet... also be on incredibly shaky ground as no one on this planet can truly ever agree about theology en masse.)
 
OK, can I bring the Arthurian legends into this? :D Because that is like the Holy Grail of every high fantasy in terms of source material to this day and DA is no exception.
 
Arrrgh, wall of text again. MUST RESIST.  :bandit:

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#101643
Illyria

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Illyria, dodge the WoTII SPOILERS!

 

Chantry doctrine maintains that Andraste ascended to the Fade to live by the Maker's side and look pretty. So I think it's being literal.

However, add in the fact that the elven gods are apparently starting to claw their way back into the Fade, and Felassan's boss operating out of there, you could draw some interesting conclusions by comparing it with some of the theories out there.

The part of the chant about the ancient ones' dreams being devoured by a demon that wanders the Fade. Now that caught my attention

EDIT: *pictured, a substantial comment*

:wub:  :wub:   :wub:  :wub:  :wub: Rome. :wub:  :wub:

And yeah, I'm guessing that in Shartan and the others' case, 'Disciple' meant 'We shall kill the Vints together'. They'd already been waging war on their own for years by that point. And they were only working together about a year before Andraste's death. The mass conversion didn't really work. It's interesting that the elven slaves apparently maintained their own religion, and Tevinter didn't enforce Old God worship, but the Andrastians made sure to tear down their temples and have succeeded in wiping out Creator worship in alienages. Reminds me of how pagan religions were more tolerant, because of their shared roots with the other polytheistic religions, they often just identified it like, "Oh, Wodan? Yeah, we call him Mercury. He shaves when he hangs out with Jupiter. Sorry, I meant Thor." That kind of thing. A giant melting pot of nerds arguing whether or not their god could beat up their god. While a religion like Andrastianism is founded on the principle that the Maker will only return when the entire world sings the Chant. So, they annihilate rivals whenever possible.

 

Fun archaeological fact: soapstone moulds have been found which could be used to make both Thor's Hammer and Crosses.  Apparently this was because women were often converting to Christianity (and then raising their children Christian) while their husbands remained pagan.  In fact, there's even grave memorials for husband and wife graves which honour both the Christian God and the pagan gods (I forget if pagan gods get capital letters or not, sorry if I got that wrong) because of the different faiths.

 

That has nothing to do with your post except tangentially.


  • coldwetn0se et Caddius aiment ceci

#101644
Caddius

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Fun archaeological fact: soapstone moulds have been found which could be used to make both Thor's Hammer and Crosses.  Apparently this was because women were often converting to Christianity (and then raising their children Christian) while their husbands remained pagan.  In fact, there's even grave memorials for husband and wife graves which honour both the Christian God and the pagan gods (I forget if pagan gods get capital letters or not, sorry if I got that wrong) because of the different faiths.

 

That has nothing to do with your post except tangentially.

That is fantastic. :D

There is a hell of a lot going on in the Fade.

The dreams part, I think it's either the elven gods, or ancient elves in uthenera being twisted into the Executors, the servants of some malignant powers in Amaranth. But what would the demon be?  :huh: For a moment, I contemplated it being Solas kicking them back out of the Fade.  :lol: "Get back in there, Falon'din! Don't make me come over there!"

Gwyvian: As for Arthurian legends, well, we do get sword out of the lake in the Hinterlands...

And there was a decent case for a really squicky Arthurian thing going on back when people thought Flemeth dragged Maric into her hut to have her way with him, making Kieran possibly an Old God Incest Baby, with I think Kieran serving the role of Mordred.

 

And yes, I used heart emoticons for each of the hills. :P


  • Gwyvian aime ceci

#101645
Gwyvian

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Very interesting, thank you.  But I'm afraid I don't know much about alchemy (it's something I've always been meaning to research though, what's a good place to start) to contribute in any meaningful way.

 

@Caddius: it's fine.  My copy arrived yesterday and I'm reading it, so coming across spoilers doesn't bother me so much now I can grab my own copy and look it up myself.

 

Oh, I myself am no expert really, though I have been fascinated with alchemy for long years and I've done quite a bit of research on it for one of my novels (and out of personal interest, of course). I'm pretty sure I'm just concocting wild fancies at this point because my brain works this way and I mesh everything with raw material I gather about all sorts of subjects, but I would be more than happy to expound upon this theory and its alchemical background.  :lol:

If you want to start learning more about alchemy in general, I would say approach it from a philosophical viewpoint first, material second. Also, I really like to delve into its uses in psychology, which I find expand the basic principles nicely and also helps move the philosophical angle along in terms of giving you a personal context to anything you read about it. All in all, to get a grasp of it, I would say that it is a lot like basic physics and should be approached as such: you have elements, those elements react to one another, transform, are destroyed, are reborn, have properties and laws. You do not start by memorizing all the elements, rather start by examining some of the basic experiments that an alchemist would subject a material to (including his/her own mind), like the magnum opus I described, which is the most fundamental. At its heart, that is alchemy.

Really, though, the philosophy is the glue that holds it together and I would say start with Jung's works; as I said, it gives an identifiable context that reading the heavy duty alchemy texts do not convey (a lot of it looks merely like a chemistry cookbook, though going on that alone would be like describing a mountain by explaining the concept of snow).

 

Really, though, I'm no expert. Maybe just ignore all of this and just start in the thick of things: whatever catches your fancy, whether that be book, manuscript or webpage, there are tons and tons of source materials out there and the truly important understanding of alchemy has to be gained on your own personal gauge of what aspect interests you the most I think.

 

Fun archaeological fact: soapstone moulds have been found which could be used to make both Thor's Hammer and Crosses.  Apparently this was because women were often converting to Christianity (and then raising their children Christian) while their husbands remained pagan.  In fact, there's even grave memorials for husband and wife graves which honour both the Christian God and the pagan gods (I forget if pagan gods get capital letters or not, sorry if I got that wrong) because of the different faiths.

 

That has nothing to do with your post except tangentially.

 

There is no significance to capitalizing gods from a pagan perspective.  ;)

 

That is fantastic. :D

There is a hell of a lot going on in the Fade.

The dreams part, I think it's either the elven gods, or ancient elves in uthenera being twisted into the Executors, the servants of some malignant powers in Amaranth. But what would the demon be?  :huh: For a moment, I contemplated it being Solas kicking them back out of the Fade.  :lol: "Get back in there, Falon'din! Don't make me come over there!"

Gwyvian: As for Arthurian legends, well, we do get sword out of the lake in the Hinterlands...

And there was a decent case for a really squicky Arthurian thing going on back when people thought Flemeth dragged Maric into her hut to have her way with him, making Kieran possibly an Old God Incest Baby, with I think Kieran serving the role of Mordred.

 

And yes, I used heart emoticons for each of the hills. :P

 

Exaaaactly! See, I knew Arthurian legends was the way to go. I mean, Lady of the Lake! Mordred, oh, yes. It's all in there. And dragons! You even find a holy grail! :D


  • madrar, Illyria et Caddius aiment ceci

#101646
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Exaaaactly! See, I knew Arthurian legends was the way to go. I mean, Lady of the Lake! Mordred, oh, yes. It's all in there. And dragons! You even find a holy grail! :D

 

STEN: Congratulations. You found a waste-bin.

:P


  • Sable Rhapsody et Gwyvian aiment ceci

#101647
Gwyvian

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STEN: Congratulations. You found a waste-bin.

:P

 

...and it has a half-eaten cake in it!  :lol:


  • Caddius aime ceci

#101648
Maria13

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I like this idea. The greatest sacrifice for love: becoming the Betrayer.

 

 

 

I'd recommend this... http://southerncross...s-judas-eng.htm

 

J.L. Borges's Three Versions of Judas.... Where the basic postulate is just this...


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Caddius

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...and it has a half-eaten cake in it!  :lol:

 

 

STEN: Had.

ALISTAIR: Heeeey....I called dibs. :(


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#101650
ChuChu

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Hey guys, sorry if this has been discussed already. I was going through some things trying to find stuff to fill the huge gaps before -1600 Ancient. I didn't find much, but I found this. Thought it might be interesting:

 

The elven writing we find in the Arbor Wilds, that you can decipher if you drink from the well:

 

  • "His crime is high treason. He took on a form reserved for the gods and their chosen, and dared to fly in the shape of the divine. The sinner belongs to Dirthamen; he claims he took wings at the urging of Ghilan'nain, and begs protection from Mythal. She does not show him favor, and will let Elgar'nan judge him.

    For one moment there is an image of a shifting, shadowy mass with blazing eyes, whose form may be one or many. Then it fades."

There is also a reference I got from Caddius' timetable: 

 

  • "5185: The Alamarri tribes split from the Neromenian and cross the Frostback Mountains and settle in the lands that will eventually become known as Ferelden. Alamarri tribal legends say they were fleeing a ‘shadow goddess’..."

 

I'm probably lacking in sleep, but I haven't really tried to look for 'shadowy things' in codexes before. Do they pop up any place else? Also, the shape of the divine that the sinner dared to fly in... reserved for the gods and their chosen: I'm assuming that means dragon? Anyone have any theories on that codex entry, by the way?


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