Okay! Uh. I don't think anyone is really interested in this except for maybe Caddius, but you are all welcome to it! It's my hope it might help some of you lore craft. Obviously the really interesting bits don't have dates and are only speculative. Thus, they aren't in here. But you get the idea. Also Caddius' written timeline is to blame for most of the text references so if there's something wrong... point your fingers at him!
This is beautiful, and now I really need some answers. Was the Veil constructed because of human incursions, or was it part Solas' plan of locking the gods away, or was he really protecting the world from one of the gods superweapons (the Blight)? How long was it between Mythal's murder, the sealing of the gods and the fall of Arlathan - one year, two thousand years? Who turned off the Eluvians and when? Did the elves losing their immortality coincide with the gods being locked away and the creation of the Veil? Did Dumat carry Mythal's wisp, and was that what found Andraste after Dumat was slain? I mean the old gods starting to whisper to humans right after the elves lose their immortality is a pretty big red flag for them being tied to them. So many questions!
I wouldn't mind either, I actually like both, purely based on looks. But I personally prefer that monk look they went with. That was the first association I had when I saw Solas and all the stereotypes fit - intelligent, educated, humble, quiet, thoughtful, concentrated, restrained, a bit sad etc. The Egyptian prince look doesn't quite fit the character. All that pomp I associate with what media taught me about ancient Egypt isn't Solas. Also the whole elven culture as presented so far feels more like forest than desert. Even considering Solas isn't Dalish I still don't see how references to Egypt would fit into it. I might assume that's also why they changed it.
Or I'm all wrong.
*Triple-Threat Theory warning - if that's not your thing, look awaaaay*
I think the reasoning behind the Egyptian angle will be clearer when we explore Par Vallon, pseudo-Northern Africa / Egypt as the flipped map of Thedas applies to our own Earth. Much as Mythal's domain seems to have been the lands of Ferelden/Orlais and elves her chosen people, I think Falon'din/Dirthamen may have ruled over a portion of Par Vallon, and the Fex were his. (This connection may actually explain the disappearance of the Fex, as they and their lands were absorbed by other members of the Pantheon at a point in the timeline that plausibly coincides with Falon'din's failed rebellion/entrapment in the Fade + Dirthamen's exile as the Dread Wolf.)
Anyway, the intense focus of "Egyptian" culture on concepts we associate with Falon'Din/Dithamen underscores the match for me. The mummy-like wrappings underlying Solas' clothing, the use of binding linens, oils and extensive rituals to prepare beings for Uthenera, the full-body canopic jars containing preserved corpses, the weighing of the spirits of the dead and his place in the reincanation cycle, and of course, the connection between Anubis the Jackal-headed god (the Egyptian jackal actually being a type of African wolf) connecting directly to his restoration as Fen'Harel.
Consider parallels between Egyptian concepts of ka, ba, and akh and the following codex found in the Lost Temple of Dirthamen:
A number of notes are scribbled on this scroll, many crossed out or written in terse, angry letters:
Reveal the heart, unite it with the flame, together they will form the key to... liberation? Advancement? The translation is not clear. I also do not think this brazier is the flame it speaks of.
I think the untranslatable word here is "ascension". The heart is Mythal's contribution to sentient beings: emotion and memory. The flame is the Sun's contribution: ambition, self-direction, choice. Fuel and fire. Those souls who burn bright enough when these two are combined pass through the Fade into the heavens Beyond, becoming stars in the sky "at the right hand of the Maker", the Sun.
Why would you feel bad? Sir Barrus is a badass. Also Calpernia.
Maybe it's because I'm having major Templar feels, but Mages aren't the only ones who are locked and controlled by the chantry. Both sides have their flaws and their rights. Choosing Templars, I think, makes more sense politically/military and for closing the breach. But after more in depth stories and facts about Templars, makes me wish I could burn down the Chantry and give them all a good, long, paid vacation.
So much pity for mages, understandable, but not a lot of people are willing to see the other side of the coin.
The templar feels are strong in me. I think implementation in the games has been poor for the templars. They were - too often - made out to be bad guys. You had to do some digging in the codex entries but even then - half the templars you run into in the games are like frothing at the mouth screaming "OMG BLOOD MAGIC LET'S BURN DOWN THE CIRCLE". So I get why people are more keen on "supporting" mages. DAI did a MUCH MUCH better job making me feel less for the mages and more for the templars. Sort of balanced it out. It also did a good job pointing the finger at the real problem...the Chantry. Hardened - Leliana will probably be Divine in my canon world state. Let Val Royeaux run red with blood I say. She'll get **** done. Then I'll bundle Samson up and give him some cocoa and let him just sleep. *pats sad Templar husbando*.
This. I would have liked the option to at least work with both in some way. But it was overly simplistic, even if we get good characters/side stories out of it (as with Samson, since he's all I've had so far).
Honestly, I think in the end, it might not matter. Because no matter who is Divine, there are still mages who refuse to go back to the circle. And the Templar order is pretty much in ruins or disbanded. So, I think no matter which side you chose, everyone's world states are going to be pretty much the same (with slight differences).
Still, I cannon the mages because I want Fiona and Samson alive.
I really wish we had to choose one side and destroy the other. I didn't like how the war was handled at all really. After all that build up, we basically have to save one side from their own stupidity. Meh.
I wouldn't have liked this. I have no desire to destroy either side.
This. I would have liked the option to at least work with both in some way. But it was overly simplistic, even if we get good characters/side stories out of it (as with Samson, since he's all I've had so far).
I get that you need an army to fight, so while you are saving one side, Corypheus and recruiting the other, but yeah...
Guys, guys. You want to know the history of these statues around the Eluvian? Just look at the buckles! It'll tell you everything.
No? -squints at Professor Kenric-
I like to think they're elven. Bald heads, and such. I don't think they were added by the Imperium because the swords don't look very Vint-y... and the humans could have chiselled the ears off at some point. As for earlier human colonies, I guess it's possible but... I like to think everything old was originally elven. It's a problem.
On a scale of 1-10, with 10 being the Temple of Mythal complete with drinking the Well, how juicy is the lore in Jaws of Haakon?
I'd give it a strong 7+, with the proviso that we're talking about the addition of some massive Tevinter-and-earlier questions with nothing to bolster them but supposition and guesswork. Hanging threads are positive lore points on my scale though- others might start stripping points away for that kind of thing.
In terms of lore-with-answers, probably a solid six? A ton of second-blight-era history, some tantalizing bits with Avvar and spirits, but not nearly enough Avvar myths and legends for my taste. @w@
Honestly, I think in the end, it might not matter. Because no matter who is Divine, there are still mages who refuse to go back to the circle. And the Templar order is pretty much in ruins or disbanded. So, I think no matter which side you chose, everyone's world states are going to be pretty much the same (with slight differences).
Still, I cannon the mages because I want Fiona and Samson alive.
There's a reason why I love/canon a softened Leliana as Divine, because the mages' freedom is important to her. They have freedom of choice. That's all people like Anders wanted. He ran away and wanted to go home and just be free. Others, like Minaeve, would be free to seek guidance and study or whatever they want.
My canon is definitely mage alliance, but I'd just like to see the content, so I expect to feel kind of bad. There's a reason I am choosing conscription versus alliance in this case, partly because there is historical precedent to fold them back in and partly out of safety concerns.
There's a reason why I love/canon a softened Leliana as Divine, because the mages' freedom is important to her. They have freedom of choice.
But I think - for that - you need someone that's more vicious. Sometimes words don't get things done. I thought softned Leliana would do it, but I think - for the long term - for the radical change she brings in. You need an iron fist.
I wouldn't have liked this. I have no desire to destroy either side.
Its the same difference to me, one side still gets destroyed depending on who you choose to help. Its just they get destroyed by an outside force, after all that build up. I mean I wouldn't even call the Mage-Templar war a war, all we see is bandits fighting basically, whilst the two armies hide from each other. This is one of my biggest problems with inquisition.
There's a reason why I love/canon a softened Leliana as Divine, because the mages' freedom is important to her. They have freedom of choice.
I think, softened or hardened, Leliana makes the same changes for the mages. The only thing that's different on whether she is softened of hardened is how she deals with people who object to her changes. Either the Chantry runs with blood or she negotiates peace.
Ont he mirror: It could go both ways, I think. I mean we know Shartan's had his ears docked before, so. XP
Okay! Uh. I don't think anyone is really interested in this except for maybe Caddius, but you are all welcome to it! It's my hope it might help some of you lore craft. Obviously the really interesting bits don't have dates and are only speculative. Thus, they aren't in here. But you get the idea. Also Caddius' written timeline is to blame for most of the text references so if there's something wrong... point your fingers at him!
Kidding. Kidding.
I also put this together for personal reasons. I wanted to have a scope of how far apart things are. I also wanted to have all three forms of calendar (FA, TE, and Chantry) in here for easy reference. The top graph is representative of everything, while the bottom is a zoom in of more recent events (well, the past 1200 years). The coloured part on the top far right represents events after the Chantry took over. Little itty bitty thing compared to the rest of DA's history, isn't it? So much blank space we don't know about before that. Andraste's era was the most dense. So is the Dragon Age, but I deliberately left a lot of the Dragon Age out because we know most of it and it gets really busy. Because of that, Inquisition events aren't really covered at all.
It's not huge but it's between 2000x2500 pixels so big enough to warn you. Here it is!
<snip!>
Good gracious me, that is amazing! Right, there goes a chunk of my day. XD Hehehe, I just dug my way through the wiki's timeline last week, too, it's nice to have it all laid out like this instead! More visual, and organized. Also woo, all the dates laid out togehter instead of listed events in different terms/units! XD And of course, your artwork at the top is lovely. Wonderful creation, this!
Gotta love how close togetherr the Old Gods coming onto the scene is with Elves losing their immortality. And, of course, Andraste's birth and Dumat's demise. Also, around 8000 FA? The story of the attack on Antiva City is just fascinating for me, for some reason. I'd love to see it illustrated or animated or something, its just sounds so cool. O___o Kind of a downer, though, and far out of the way, so doubtful. A girl can dream though, right? XD
Spoilered for ridiculously boring off topic-ness. ;D Sorry.
Spoiler
"The country of Antiva is overrun by Darkspawn. The Grey Wardens arrive to evacuate Antiva City but the royal family refuse to leave. The Antivan Royal Guard rebels and kills King Elaudio before they are stopped by the Wardens. It is publicly reported that he was killed by the darkspawn. The Wardens evacuate the surviving royals and court members via Griffon. As they retreat they are attacked by the Archdemon and the surviving royals are killed along with most of the Wardens. Using improvised Aravels supported by magic and drawn by Griffons, the Grey Wardens evacuate a large number of civilians from Wycome to Starkhaven."
I mean. Blight, armies of Darkspawn, Grey Wardens on griffons, an overrun capitol city, a difficult King, Royal assassination, a cover up, a last minute escape via flying aravels led by griffons, aaaand an Archdemon swooping (heh) out of the sky and attackignt he Royal party itself... Daaaamnnn.
Anywho, back to timeline. Kossith landed around the time of blight number one, or just before, no? And ogres presumably were created after they were compeltely wiped out in the first Blight. So I'm guessing they still had horns and giant stature even back then? Hum. Unless the older generations of ogres were different than what we see now, I guess?
It's amazing how much content and interesting stuff is crammed into Thedas's history. Just amazing. XD
But I think - for that - you need someone that's more vicious. Sometimes words don't get things done. I thought softned Leliana would do it, but I think - for the long term - for the radical change she brings in. You need an iron fist.
Words aren't the only way to be diplomatic and negotiate. She's not above fighting when necessary, but it's not her primary tactic at all. The iron fist technique is not something I agree is most effective nor desirable. Keeping violence to a last resort versus cleaning house is not weakness. Sometimes holding back and giving people a chance and being firm in other ways IS what gets things done versus jumping the gun.
Words aren't the only way to be diplomatic and negotiate. She's not above fighting when necessary, but it's not her primary tactic at all. The iron fist technique is not something I agree is most effective nor desirable. Keeping violence to a last resort versus cleaning house is not weakness. Sometimes holding back and giving people a chance and being firm in other ways IS what gets things done versus jumping the gun.
I'm not a fan of the softened Leliana ending, for the same reason I'm not a fan of Briala-Celene ending - its just too perfect. She basically gets everyone to agree with her through the power of niceness, its not for me. Murdering everyone that opposes you and bullying everyone that might is much more my thing. Much more doable too.
Hurrah! Uh. Just remember it's not official and, I believe some nugs snuck in to my office while I was sleeping. So while I tried my best I'm sure there are things amiss somewhere
No worries, I'm sure the nugs didn't do any....
...actually, keep an eye on those shady beasts. Their cuteness is calculated move.
Hah, that would be awesome. I was already enthusiastic to reply that Merrill used blood magic to cleanse the tainted eluvian *wink wink*, but then I recalled she only used it to increase her power, because she had no lyrium. There goes my enthusiasm *sobs*
I just played the Dalish Origin last week. When Tamlen spoke of his vision, I immediately thought of the black city..which could be Arlathan.
Would it be possible.. that there's an entity in the fade that wants to get out and can only escape through an eluvian? And the same entity played mind games with Tamlen, sent Audacity to tempt Merrill into fixing the eluvian and when that didn't work out, sent Felassan after Briala's eluvian network? I'm assuming it's Falon'Din, but I have no proof. I know I had one good example to support my hypothesis, but naturally, I didn't write it down and forgot.
I love this
+1 in the interested camp. I want to stick that timeline on my wall.
Hey, wait! Before you give up hope on the idea - there's nothing to say that blood magic was a prerequisite to what Merrill did; it may matter a great deal if she had used lyrium instead, it might have had an effect we aren't aware of. I'm fairly certain that using blood magic vs. regular magic does influence the final product in some ways, apart from just power.
I like the idea about an entity trying to escape the Fade, especially if it's Falon'Din. *adds to bag of thought marbles*
That could just be due to dev oversight. At the Temple of Mythal, the spirit thing that rises out of the Well of Sorrows when Corypheus goes for the eluvian has human ears. The devs admitted that was an error on their part as they didn't think the spirit/being/thing would be able to be seen so clearly.
So thinking on this a little more. Duncan calls it a Tevinter artifact, but he could be mistaken. Like, there's a banter where Dorian tells Solas a magic technique is from Tevinter and Solas informs him it's elven.
As far as the human-made temple honoring Falon-Din - I could be mistaken, but didn't the elves try to live peacefully with humans for a while before discovering their lifespan was shortening because of them? So your theory that the ruin was a place where elves and humans lived together before the fall of Arlathan could be right... actually, I'd think it'd have to be even before Arlathan because I think that's when the elves segregated themselves from the rest of the world.
Or that.
Solas does say that Falon'din was obsessed with getting more worshipers. Who's to say he stuck with just getting worship from elves? Those ruins could be an old temple that ancient Tevinters (back before their three tribes had merged to be called "Tevinter", anyway) built for him back before he was sealed away and elven civilization collapsed and Tevinter as a whole took up Old God worship. Hence why Duncan thinks some things in the ruins look Tevinter; they are.
I tend to agree that this wasn't a dev oversight - I mean, Tamlen is pointing out that there are human and elven elements to the place, there is way too much suggesting that this was from a time when elves and humans (and possibly dwarves) coexisted. And what is to say, really, whether or not humans worshipped elven gods? It makes sense if they could get along for a while. Like Rome!
Or, this is where the Old Gods are born in a sense... humans "take up" the elven gods in corrupted form...? Hmm...
My Trev sided with the Templars and I felt so bad during the entire thing.
Maybe it's because I'm having major Templar feels, but Mages aren't the only ones who are locked and controlled by the chantry. Both sides have their flaws and their rights. Choosing Templars, I think, makes more sense politically/military and for closing the breach. But after more in depth stories and facts about Templars, makes me wish I could burn down the Chantry and give them all a good, long, paid vacation.
What is it that Cullen says in DA2? Something about the poor, oppressed apprentice being a powerful image that mages are perfectly willing to use.
My sympathies have kind of swung all over the place. I was really pro-mage with Origins, partially because I was playing Amell who thumbed her nose at templars every chance she got. But then in DA2, I played a Hawke who was completely on Anders' violent revolution train, and it became harder and harder to see that sort of character as a hero. Understandable, yes, but not always sympathetic or forgivable. After DA:I and Asunder and all the other stuff that's come out, I just feel bad for everyone. It's easy to see why the mages' situation blows, but the templars are no better off. They can't go and try to live normal lives any more than the mages can; their lyrium addiction is too crippling. They're just as caught between a rock and a hard place.
Illyria, nikki-tikki, Caddius et 1 autre aiment ceci
Anyone got a picture of the Eluvian from the back?
I'm currently puzzling over whether or not the weird little twists and spirals around the Eluvian are reminiscent of the top part of Falon'Din's vallaslin, or whether the resemblance is merely coincidental? (Or because I'm wearing my tinfoil hat too tight?)
I'm not a fan of the softened Leliana ending, for the same reason I'm not a fan of Briala-Celene ending - its just too perfect. She basically gets everyone to agree with her through the power of niceness, its not for me. Murdering everyone that opposes you and bullying everyone that might is much more my thing. Much more doable too.
The Bria/Celene ending isn't perfect! They just have to have another lover's tiff and Orlais explodes again.
My sympathies have kind of swung all over the place. I was really pro-mage with Origins, partially because I was playing Amell who thumbed her nose at templars every chance she got. But then in DA2, I played a Hawke who was completely on Anders' violent revolution train, and it became harder and harder to see that sort of character as a hero. Understandable, yes, but not always sympathetic or forgivable. After DA:I and Asunder and all the other stuff that's come out, I just feel bad for everyone. It's easy to see why the mages' situation blows, but the templars are no better off. They can't go and try to live normal lives any more than the mages can; their lyrium addiction is too crippling. They're just as caught between a rock and a hard place.
This sums up why I have a huge problem with a large part of the DA fanbase linking mages with real life oppressed groups because it's not as simple as 'mages=good, templers=bad'. We've seen there's good on both sides. We've met templers who just want to protect mages from a world that hates them, and we've met mages that are the reason the world hates them.
You have no idea. How ready my body is...
I am going to laugh so hard when we meet the elven gods and they're nothing like the headcanons going around.
Spoiler
Sable Rhapsody, CapricornSun, DarthEmpress et 8 autres aiment ceci
But I think - for that - you need someone that's more vicious. Sometimes words don't get things done. I thought softned Leliana would do it, but I think - for the long term - for the radical change she brings in. You need an iron fist.
Regarding Leliana as Divine:
I believe whether she is ultimately successful hinges on the sort of society she introduces changes into. When you look at revolutions from a historical perspective, one of the determining questions for lasting changes tends to be: "Are the people ready?" For instance, with the American Revolution and those that came after, philosophers had already begun to wave the flag of liberty. Their words, written or shared in public, at dinners or in salons, helped people believe they could be free of kings. The idea was planted and took root. Of course there were a myriad of other factors in play, but the fact remains that public opinion is paramount when it comes to change. Just look at the difference between the American and French revolutions, the difference in approach, culture, and leadership. Washington to Robespierre, privileged colonists to long-oppressed peasantry, ready and not ready.
This is why my choice is often Cassandra, the moderate. I don't believe Thedas is ready for the radical changes Leliana wants to bring about, admirable as they are. Leliana and Vivienne share the same issue: can their successors preserve their ruling styles? Or will they be overturned at the cost of much blood?
I'm not a fan of the softened Leliana ending, for the same reason I'm not a fan of Briala-Celene ending - its just too perfect. She basically gets everyone to agree with her through the power of niceness, its not for me. Murdering everyone that opposes you and bullying everyone that might is much more my thing. Much more doable too.
I don't think either are perfect. There are hints that it might not work. There are also difficulties in each.
Oh, people can be difficult, that's certainly true. However, I guess, I do put something of myself into a decision like that and I'm one of those people who is all about diplomacy, negotiation, compromise, and reaching out to people. Until I am REALLY pushed and something else becomes necessary, hence the last resort sort of thing. (I can probably count on one hand the number of people who have seen me actually angry). I understand leading without harshness, quiet strength, and kind of being accepting, a sort of voice of reason and a sort of catalyst for people I care about. And extended over groups too. Which is why that outcome made me really happy when that's what I got.
Ont he mirror: It could go both ways, I think. I mean we know Shartan's had his ears docked before, so. XP
Good gracious me, that is amazing! Right, there goes a chunk of my day. XD Hehehe, I just dug my way through the wiki's timeline last week, too, it's nice to have it all laid out like this instead! More visual, and organized. Also woo, all the dates laid out togehter instead of listed events in different terms/units! XD And of course, your artwork at the top is lovely. Wonderful creation, this!
Gotta love how close togetherr the Old Gods coming onto the scene is with Elves losing their immortality. And, of course, Andraste's birth and Dumat's demise. Also, around 8000 FA? The story of the attack on Antiva City is just fascinating for me, for some reason. I'd love to see it illustrated or animated or something, its just sounds so cool. O___o Kind of a downer, though, and far out of the way, so doubtful. A girl can dream though, right? XD
Spoilered for ridiculously boring off topic-ness. ;D Sorry.
Spoiler
"The country of Antiva is overrun by Darkspawn. The Grey Wardens arrive to evacuate Antiva City but the royal family refuse to leave. The Antivan Royal Guard rebels and kills King Elaudio before they are stopped by the Wardens. It is publicly reported that he was killed by the darkspawn. The Wardens evacuate the surviving royals and court members via Griffon. As they retreat they are attacked by the Archdemon and the surviving royals are killed along with most of the Wardens. Using improvised Aravels supported by magic and drawn by Griffons, the Grey Wardens evacuate a large number of civilians from Wycome to Starkhaven."
I mean. Blight, armies of Darkspawn, Grey Wardens on griffons, an overrun capitol city, a difficult King, Royal assassination, a cover up, a last minute escape via flying aravels led by griffons, aaaand an Archdemon swooping (heh) out of the sky and attackignt he Royal party itself... Daaaamnnn.
Anywho, back to timeline. Kossith landed around the time of blight number one, or just before, no? And ogres presumably were created after they were compeltely wiped out in the first Blight. So I'm guessing they still had horns and giant stature even back then? Hum. Unless the older generations of ogres were different than what we see now, I guess?
It's amazing how much content and interesting stuff is crammed into Thedas's history. Just amazing. XD
Thanks again for this, ChuChu! Brilliant stuff.
Thanks, I'm ever pleased when I can sabotage someone's day! That goes to the rest of you, too! -cackle-
The top one is the most revealing, I think, seeing all that time stretched out before the human kingdoms were hatched. Because we know at some point in there, the Elven Pantheon had some serious stuff go down. It's a very long time, though. It was so empty, that's why I tossed some doodles in xD
The bottom gets so full of stuff I actually had to cut things and it still can be a bit difficult to read. Hopefully it's still follow-able. I can't help but wonder what we'd deduce if only we knew which parts to look at.
I was pretty entranced by that story too! I thought to myself, damn, that's a lot of drama packed in to one little side event.
The Kossith landed around the time the Magisters stepped foot in the Golden City, yeah... -410 Ancient... about 15 years earlier. So near the First Blight! This was probably when the first Ogre Darkspawn/Kossith Broodmothers appeared. Even though I don't have everything noted (obviously), and now you've brought something up that makes me go trace my finger along the dates... I think referencing events is so much handier now! Unless I'm missing something, the next time the Kossith show up they've already converted to the Qun and it's the Storm Age. But I don't think they would have changed too much physically, more likely Brood mothers just have really nasty children.
Oh. And now that I think about it... I don't have anything about the Fex in that time table! Fex are much too much mystery.
Retour en haut
I didn't like how the war was handled at all really. After all that build up, we basically have to save one side from their own stupidity. Meh. 
Their cuteness is calculated move.
