153429 réponses à ce sujet

[madrar]

So I had a thought:

Dragons are resistant to the Blight. Much like my grandfather with the radiation the Navy cheerfully exposed him to back in the 40's, dragons' bodies take the taint and put it into lumps for containment. Dragons are hard to hit with the Blight. While Corypheus's dragon is blighted, it's also thirty percent blighted lyrium.

So how do the darkspawn infect Old God dragons so easily?

Are the Old Gods already infected? (Yet the Architect mentions the darkspawn following the song because it is beautiful and perfect, and that it changes when it rises as an Archdemon. Perhaps it's their Song as they dream, as opposed to when they awaken and feel the pain of being blighted?)

Are the Old Gods different from dragons in that respect?

 

Hmm.  No solution here, but two things to consider: 

 

1) Way, waaay back when we were hashing over the relationship between Will and Song, it was theorized that the call that draws darkspawn was likely the original Song of Creation, its source being the gods' untainted OGS theoretically amplified by their dragon vessel, as dragons are suggested to have extremely strong Will.  Assuming that would suggest that the change is directly due to being inflected with Blight: the original Song of Creation is overpowered by the Sundered Song (the song of red lyrium).  It would also follow that Archdemons could hold out much longer than "normal" dragons because their innate Will is bolstered by the power of the OGS inside them.   (In other words, a much louder counter-song would have  to be drowned out before the taint could take hold of the entity's mind and body.)

 

2)  I was under the impression that (in Dumat's case, at least) the magisters tinkered directly with "the darkness", introducing it directly into his bloodstream.  (Is that accurate, though?   I don't have a mental bookmark for where I picked up that thought, which makes it highly suspect.) If so, it seems like any natural environmental resistance could have been massively overwhelmed by having Blight pumped into its veins.

 

That said, nothing precludes them from being already exposed to red lyrium when they were trapped.  It's definitely possible, or even likely, if this hypothetical mess has a fragment of truth in it.  

[madrar]

Anyone got a picture of the Eluvian from the back?

 

I'm currently puzzling over whether or not the weird little twists and spirals around the Eluvian are reminiscent of the top part of Falon'Din's vallaslin, or whether the resemblance is merely coincidental? (Or because I'm wearing my tinfoil hat too tight?)

 

 

This one?

 

Spoiler

 

It looks a bit more like Elgar'nan's to me, which is... actually a bit worrisome, now that I think about it.  I'd chalked this up as a Falon'din/Dirthamen "twins" portal before now, but the vallaslin parallels (particularly in consideration of the mirrored light/dark sides of his full markings) make that feel like a viable alternative.  Hmm.

[ChuChu]

This one?

 

Spoiler

 

It looks a bit more like Elgar'nan's to me, which is... actually a bit worrisome, now that I think about it.  I'd chalked this up as a Falon'din/Dirthamen "twins" portal before now, but the vallaslin parallels (particularly in consideration of the mirrored light/dark sides of his full markings) make that feel like a viable alternative.  Hmm.

Could be either! If it resembles Elgar'nan's pattern it could be like a homage to the 'Father'.

[Caddius]

Glad you approve! If I didn't have your written points to go by, it'd be a very barren timeline indeed. xD

Top left even has your name in it, in case this ever gets seen by other people they need to know who to blame for the crazy. In fact, I almost want someone to throw this at Weekes. Demand Solas DLC. We're spiralling in to dark depths over here.

Who knows what we'll do next D:

Hey, I just transcribed the wiki's timeline and converted it into Arlathan dating.  You made the pretties. *salutes*

Now, if we can just make a super-gigantic digital map with shifting borders as time goes on and pop-up timeline notifications...

[ChuChu]

Hey, I just transcribed the wiki's timeline and converted it into Arlathan dating.  You made the pretties. *salutes*

Now, if we can just make a super-gigantic digital map with shifting borders as time goes on and pop-up timeline notifications...

Haha. I'm pretty sure there's timeline software floating around like that... and it'd be MUCH easier to curate. Or if there isn't, there should be. Something where everyone can see it but only certain people are given permission to add dates and events.

I debated finding one before I began laying it out, but I'm the weirdo who likes how it looks when you do it by hand :>

[madrar]

 

Do we have any good theories on the how and why of red lyrium in general? I recall it being discussed before but I don't know how far those got.

 

 

Seconding a lot of what Caddius posted, but with some additional nutbag theory notes:

 

Blue lyrium = blood of the Earth, Mythal's previous incarnation- an ancient draconic entity whose body (possibly corpse) forms the actual planet, oroboros-style. The Stone is her unborn child, the dwarves her maternal antibodies / immune system writ large, devoted to protecting the Stone: fighting off dengue, cancerous red lyrium and blight.  Blue lyrium sings the original Song of Creation.  

 

Red lyrium = blood of the Sun, an ancient draconic entity whose (possibly OGS-empty) body is currently trapped in the Void.  (Very literally.  Outer space.  The sky.  Heaven.)  Currently sings a different song, the Sundered Song.  Whether this Sundering was an innate and inescapable result of his creation or something that Elgar'nan tinkered with is still uncertain.  

 

Possibility #1:  The Song's "sundering" refers to the creation of the Sun.  Ignoring the likelihood of a pre-Elgar'nan entity of Order, if we imagine the world to have been the primordial creation of Elgar'nan and Earth (one will, one possibility) then the original state of the universe would have been utterly deterministic - a world of perfect Order, directed entirely by one Will. (Earth-Mythal's domain may be possibility, but possibility alone does not make the universe indeterministic.  In a completely Newtonian universe, flipping a coin is just the illusion of chance: if all factors are accounted for- the coin's weight, the air's density, the force applied, etc- the outcome would obviously be predetermined.   This fits the Andrastean Chant's description of the Maker's first creation, the world of spirits before the veil was raised.  

 

By introducing a second source of Will, by creating a triad- each possibility now has not one, but two possible outcomes.  Suddenly the isotope in Schrodinger's box can be both decayed, and not.  It inserts chaos theory, indeterminism, an infinitely branching (again, 'sundered') multiverse, and perhaps most importantly (the game suggests) neurological choice and individual free will.

 

An interesting possibility from a scientific standpoint, but a bit thematically problematic.

 

Possibility #2:  The "Sundered Song" of red lyrium is the result of Order attempting to reverse the effect of the Sun's creation by overwriting reality with a far stronger, "louder" song, in effect bringing the universe back under the control of a single Will.  The Sun's original blood was tinkered with, ramped in frequency and volume until it was essentially cancerous: its affect on choice and the triad like dropping a 10 ton sandbag on a balanced postal scale.

 

In some ways, this option feels like a better fit-  Elgar'nan's contribution to creation being the "spark of life", red lyrium's effect as a literal cancer of the Earth seems more thematically appropriate: it is life gone horribly awry, becoming an overwhelming force.   This perspective also seems to jive better with the way Solas regards blight (and by extension, red lyrium) as being fundamentally alien and unnatural. 

[myahele]

Yavana (daughter of Flemeth and wannabe host) said that it was the dragons that ruled the skies and that there was no Veil....so where are the Elves in this equation?

 

The Elgarnan's story reminds me alot of Greek/Roman creation stories: Older Diety is defeated and subsequently sealed and/or becomes a servant to the ruling diety.

 

Assuming that Dragons and their gods/rulers controlled the world, then perhaps Elgarnan (however he came to be) defeated the dragons and their Dieties and reduced them into servitude more or less. Perhaps Old Gods = the original rulers.

 

I'm more curious about the Dwarves involvement in the Old God's sealing.Could it have been a deal between Dwarves and Elves? The elves clearly benefit but what was in it for the Dwarves when surface issues really shouldn't be their problem? I'm pretty sure they used lyrium and runes to seal them up. Perhaps even red lyrium? It'll explain why Kieran gets nightmares when near lyrium, kinda like ptsd.

 

Whatver they used it was sinister enough for even the darkspawn to not go near an empty Old God prison cell

[madrar]

 

Headcanon accepted. This is strangely adorable and also I'm imagining the headlines: "Old man spotted wandering countryside in paint-smeared-pajamas; prime suspect in mysterious case of continuing high-brow vandalism rampant across Thedas (more on pg. 8)"

 

 

I think the poster's theory of the orb being Mythal's rather than Solas' simply because of the game file being named "elv_orbmythal" is super shaky. There's no possessive in there, and file names can be totally bonkers. When I'm naming projects, the file name usually just encompasses the main bits of what the subject matter is about for easy reference later.

 

<snip>

 

Agreed, a variable name in the code isn't much to go on.  >w<   If you're interested in additional possible evidence though, consider this:

 

The figures depicted in the red lyrium idol are a remarkable match for Elgar'nan's origin myth: Elgar'nan being the half-emergent figure jutting from where the female (Earth) and male (Sun) figures intersect, suggesting that this was most likely his idol. 

 

Similiarly, the wave pattern on Solas' orb seems to reflect the origin story of a different Pantheon member: Mythal, rising from the ocean of tears that covered the Earth.  Which, if the pattern held, would mean the orb was most likely hers.  (Triple threat theory also provides a plausible reason she would have granted it to FH: a period of magical probation when he was first released and restored to the Pantheon.)

[myahele]

If you look closely there are 3 figures in the red lyrium idol.

 

[madrar]

If you look closely there are 3 figures in the red lyrium idol.

 

Spoiler

 

*nods*  

 

The Earth (the one with the suspicious Mythal-esque headwear), the Sun (the figure embracing her) and Elgar'nan (the third half-figure emerging where the two main figures meet.)

[Uirebhiril]

Similiarly, the wave pattern on Solas' orb reflects the origin story of a different Pantheon member: Mythal, rising from the ocean of tears that covered the Earth.  Which, if the pattern held, would mean the orb was most likely hers.  (Triple threat theory also provides a plausible reason she would have granted it to FH: a period of magical probation when he was first released and restored to the Pantheon.)

 

I thought it was said somewhere that the intent was to make the orb pattern like a fingerprint.

[madrar]

I thought it was said somewhere that the intent was to make the orb pattern like a fingerprint.

 

Entirely possible- this is just theory mongering.  ^w^   Any chance you have a pointer to that reference?

[CapricornSun]

I thought it was said somewhere that the intent was to make the orb pattern like a fingerprint.

 

Entirely possible- this is just theory mongering.  ^w^   Any chance you have a pointer to that reference?

 

Page 210 of The Art of Dragon Age: Inquisition mentions the fingerprint pattern.

 

"By contrast, Corypheus's weapon is pure: a simple, unadorned sphere. Its reflective surface is marked with an organic fingerprint pattern."

[Cee]

Dorian Pavus & Solas - unwanted memories

Bethany Hawke & Solas - compromise

Denam & Solas - speaking without words

 

Arl Eamon Guerrin & Bartrand Tethras - falling to pieces

 

Corypheus & Cailan Theirin - gestures of friendship

 

m!Lavellan & Dennet - save your breath

 

f!Lavellan & Samson - shelter from a storm (for our residents with Samson feels)

 

Flemeth & Abelas - "won't let you go" (from my loyal service?)

[BubbleDncr]

Just found the perfect song for Solas and Lavellan

 

 

[madrar]

 

*brain explodes* Ugh, too many ideas in my head after catching up... I'm not sleeping much tonight, either, I see.

 

Actually, elements!

 

Wait, wait. Guys. Elements! Dwarves would be earth, naturally. Perhaps elves could be water and humans air, or vice versa. The qunari could be fire, based on their dragon-descended theory. Oooh, I have to chew on this a bit.

 

*suspends further theory on this*

 

Nooo, come back!

 

There's a lot to like about humours / classical alchemical elements and how they correspond to the known races:

 

Humor         Domain    Humour characteristics                                     DA God                  DA Race

 

Phlegm         Water      calm, thoughtful, patient, peaceful                         Mythal                     Elves

Yellow Bile    Fire         ambitious, leader-like, restless, easily angered     Sun/False Sun        Qunari / Kossith / Humanity

Black Bile      Earth       despondent, quiet, analytical, serious                   Earth/Stone             Dwarves

Blood             Air          courageous, hopeful, playful, carefree                  True Sun/Solas?      Idealized Humanity?

 

The parallels are pretty suggestive... but suggestive of exactly what, I have no idea.   ^w^

[Cee]

Just found the perfect song for Solas and Lavellan

 

 

 

:/

 

I'm going to hold out a tiny team  optimism flag, though I think I'm more in the expecting bittersweet camp, but hopeful. It changes, depending how much hellspiraling happens.

[myahele]

Twisted Tree Rise - Remnant of an ancient elf's home-tree?

 

 

 

We hear stories of them living in trees and imagine wooden ramps or Dalish aravels. Imagine instead spires of crystal twining through the branches, palaces floating among the clouds. Imagine beings who lived forever, for whom magic was as natural as breathing. That is what was lost.

 

 

* High elevation and cloudy

* Next to remnants of an ancient structure 

* Statue with a wolf and a dragon

* Could just be my game (on console here) but there's a circular black mist always present on top of the tree, pretty eery

[madrar]

Yeah, totally true. I dunno, I keep thinking back to what happened between her and her sister (following lights, fire, death, and suddenly she started hearing voices). Combine that with being so singular in her goals and I get weird vibes. But yes, could definitely be self involvement and fanaticism to blame!

Edit: haha same wave length, lizasaurus

 

Yeah.  The whole thing with Halliserre and the lights and the fires and the carnage is just... jesus.

 

I've got nothing.  No idea.  Not even a half-baked crackpot theory to fill the gap.  

 

Bonus weirdness: the whole oddly personal and detailed account of events is written up by Kordillus Drakon nearly 200 years later: a guy whose name (Cordylus + Drakon  = "water lizard" + "dragon" in Greek, plus Cordylus' oroboros-like behavior) is almost as lore-suspicious as his efforts to bolster the Andrastean faith.

 

Her periods of unresponsive stillness and hearing voices, though, I think is a pretty pointed nudge towards the idea of Andraste having temporal lobe epilepsy, a la modern theories about Joan of Arc and other religious figures.  Somebody on the writing team is a neuroscience geek.  

[Caddius]

Yeah.  The whole thing with Halliserre and the lights and the fires is just... jesus.  I've got nothing.  No idea.  Not even a half-baked crackpot theory to fill the gap.  

 

Her periods of unresponsive stillness and hearing voices, though, I think is a pretty pointed nudge towards the idea of Andraste having temporal lobe epilepsy, a la modern theories about Joan of Arc and other religious figures.  Somebody on the writing team is a neuroscince geek, and I love it.   ^w^

I'd be willing to bet that the first Neromenian Dreamers that were contacted by the Old Gods/Forgotten Ones exhibited similar symptoms. Still developing theories, but it looks likely that A) Something powerful was sending Andraste visions She had magical potential and C) Andraste managed to spin all of this into her being a prophet of the Maker of Thedas, much like the Inquisitor can potentially spin banishing the demons at Adamant as being the blessing of Andraste.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I'm going to hold out a tiny team  optimism flag, though I think I'm more in the expecting bittersweet camp, but hopeful. It changes, depending how much hellspiraling happens.

 

I'm hellspiralling over this entry from WoT2.  Talking about Zathrian, but it hits home especially hard with Solas, or any of the ancient elvhen:

 

It can be argued that an immortal would have to be distant, or eventually all it would know is loss.  What would our world look like to such a creature?  What actions would they be capable of when everything except themselves is fleeting and therefore of little relevance to eternity?  If we as elvhen discover a path back to what we were, we must be sure that the path is wide enough for all.  For the individual who stumbles into that journey, who endures when all else is dust, can only be alone.

--Keeper Ilan'ta

 

[Janic99]

This one?

 

Spoiler

 

It looks a bit more like Elgar'nan's to me, which is... actually a bit worrisome, now that I think about it.  I'd chalked this up as a Falon'din/Dirthamen "twins" portal before now, but the vallaslin parallels (particularly in consideration of the mirrored light/dark sides of his full markings) make that feel like a viable alternative.  Hmm.

Agree with Elgar'nan/Falon'din/Dirthamen XD

I was comparing this to both of these vallaslin pics: http://img2.wikia.no...designs_dao.png

https://41.media.tum...4bdzio1_500.png

 

but if you turn the pic upside down it reminds me of this one: 


if you check the forehead and the chin  

[Sifr]

That last part of the quote from WOT2 is very poignant and tragic;

 

"For the individual who stumbles into that journey, who endures when all else is dust, can only be alone."

 

Spoiler

 

Was I the only one who thought of this?

[madrar]

The Blight itself clearly predates the Magisters. We see red lyrium in the Primeval Thaig (which is probably older than Arlathan itself) and there's plenty of theories about the Pantheon (Andruil, mostly) being blighted. 

 

The First Blight (recorded Blight with an archdemon) starts pretty much right after the ritual to send the magisters into the Golden/Black City, a little more than 1000 years before the Dragon Age. 

 

Whoa- before we go too much further, we need to be sure not to confuse these two.  

 

Multiple pieces of evidence suggest red lyrium pre-existed the magisters, but (as far as we know) Blight did not.  I think running theory holds that in tinkering with the "darkness" they found in the Black City, the Architect (possibly inadvertently) created a secondary and far more virulent path of infection- creating a fast-moving, infectious blood-borne disease that could directly attack sentient life (Blight) from what had been a relatively slow-moving cancer (red lyrium).

 

They're connected, certainly.  But not quite interchangeable.

[Caddius]

Whoa- before we go too much further, we need to be sure not to confuse these two.  

 

Multiple pieces of evidence suggest red lyrium pre-existed the magisters, but (as far as we know) Blight did not.  I think running theory holds that in tinkering with the "darkness" they found in the Black City, the Architect (possibly inadvertently) created a secondary and far more virulent path of infection- creating a fast-moving, infectious blood-borne disease that could directly attack sentient life (Blight) from what had been a relatively slow-moving cancer (red lyrium).

 

They're connected, certainly.  But not quite interchangeable.

The Blight is also used to describe the corruption itself, as well as the Archdemon and darkspawn surge events. Not to speak for her, but I believe Laurelin was using it in that context.

From the 'Pillars of the Earth' Codex entry, it would seem that there was a proto-Blight and proto-darkspawn as well. Not enough info on whether that was the cancer stage's version of the darkspawn, or if it turned virulent and that's what led to desperate attempts to seal it away.