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Solas Thread - NOW OFFICIALLY MOVED to Cyonan's BSN (link in OP)


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#101901
coldwetn0se

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Very nicely done. You do look awesome. :D
 
If you can find liquid latex in the color you want, you might try using that for a more durable vallaslin. It held up well for me during the long gone age when I would cosplay as a Trill at Star Trek conventions. :P


I think I love you. <3

;)

(Hey! Look at that. My phone "quoted", without spazzing out. :lol: )

Should take a snapshit of my twenty year old Klingon homeworld sign tattoo. Of course, you all would be subjected to my my hairy-assed calf....so very lazy at shaving when NOT summer. :blush:
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#101902
coldwetn0se

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LOL! Ahhhh...snap, crap, pop! I really did mean "snapshot". :pinched:
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#101903
Uirebhiril

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LOL! Ahhhh...snap, crap, pop! I really did mean "snapshot". :pinched:

 

If it's all the same, I don't think we want to see a picture of that. :lol: But tattoos are always interesting!


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#101904
coldwetn0se

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If it's all the same, I don't think we want to see a picture of that. :lol: But tattoos are always interesting!


LMAO! Yeah....NO one wants to see that!

But here is the tat (forgive the "follicles". Also, this tat has never been re-inked, so the colors are quite faded. Yup! That is what happens with old(er) tats. C'est la vie. B)

tat1_zpspq043iba.jpg
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#101905
madrar

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Chantry doctrine maintains that Andraste ascended to the Fade to live by the Maker's side and look pretty. So I think it's being literal.

 

Very literal, I think.  

 

At this point, we have a fair amount of evidence that a reincarnation loop underlies sentient life in Thedas.  Spirits of the dead pass into the Fade (psuedo-purgatory) where they are judged and the soul's fate decided: to remain as a spirit within the Fade, be wiped of memory and returned to the physical world, or to pass Beyond.

 

Or, at least that's how it worked until the Gods were locked away.  ("We are trapped. The ones born here do not understand the keenness of what we have lost, or why so many of their elders weep as they enter uthenera.   Without the wise to lead them, they will lose what they should have been.")

 

Again, consider how the Egyptian concepts of ka, ba, and akh parallel the following codex found in the Temple of Dirthamen:  

 

Reveal the heart, unite it with the flame, together they will form the key to... liberation? Advancement? The translation is not clear.

 

Heart- emotion and memory- Mythal's gift to sentient life.   Flame - drive, ambition, a need for purpose- the Sun's gift to sentient life.  Recall from magic theory that the fade seems to act as fuel, ignited by the fire of the mage's will, producing Change. Recall also how brightly people who embrace that power to Change the world shine: not just the Inquisitor, who shines "too bright" for Cole to see properly, but others in the Inquisition as well.  Solas is "bright and sad" to Cole, "bright and brilliant" to the Spirit of Wisdom.  Vivienne and Dorian shine:  

 

Cole: The Veil sings around both of you. It whispers through you and makes you both brighter.
Vivienne: The same could be said of any mage. Beyond that, I have little in common with a noble from Tevinter.
Cole: No. For most mages, it's a tool. A toil. You make it you.
 
The key is that they embrace their power to change the world around them.  They don't shrink from it, as those the Chantry has taught to fear their own magic.  And not just as mages, but within the larger world: they want to change the world that is, and they believe in their own power to do so.  This is where the connection to Andraste, and her death, enters.
 
(Spoilered for the JoH-less)
Spoiler
Spoiler
 
OGSes, I believe, are ascended souls -heart and flame- that in ages long past willingly bound themselves to Thedas to continue to serve the Purpose they held in life.  And as the Fade is Mythal's domain, I believe the contracts were originally hers.  The halam'shivanas of the Pantheon, the "sweet sacrifice of Duty", was never being able to pass Beyond.
 
It would also seem to explain why reborn OGS entities appear to maintain aspects of their original personality and a particular set of skills: Andruil and her chaotic archery, June and his cheerful craft, Dirthamen-Solas' pensive, thoughtful focus on balance and ability to access secrets.  Falon'Din-Solas' fierce commitment to free will and power over the Fade.  Heart and Flame: a core temperament and a skill that allows for the fulfilment of their Purpose.

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#101906
Gwyvian

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Omg! I accidently wiped my face when I was outside in the heat and my vallaslin looked faded up top (I took the pictures right after I applied my vallaslin in case I messed it up later on). After that I tried not to touch my face. I used children's facepaint I found at Micheal's (arts and crafts store) and applied it using one of my paint brushes. The left side was the hardest to apply. 

 

I don't know if a 26 year old should look adorable, but I do like being called that :3 

 

It looks great!  :lol:

 

Hey, being adorable at 26 is a thing!  :D I'm in that camp, too, which can be irritating in certain instances, e.g. "Oooh, I know you asked me to wake you up, but you looked so adorable as you slept, I just couldn't bring myself to do it!  <3" (This being 2-3 hours after I wanted to get up.... *sigh*) But, on the whole, it's not a bad thing!  :D



#101907
madrar

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Exaaaactly! See, I knew Arthurian legends was the way to go. I mean, Lady of the Lake! Mordred, oh, yes. It's all in there. And dragons! You even find a holy grail! :D

 

Bonus madness: the urn-grail is being guarded by a splinter sect that mirrors Catharism in ways that make my mind explode.  (The name of Andraste's disciple Cathaire is most certainly not a coincidence.)  The Cathar believed that human souls were the genderless spirits of angels, cursed to be reincarnated until they broke the cycle through a ritual called the consolamentum- unburdening themselves from unavoidable 'regret' acquired in the process of living.

 

Among Mythal's many titles, of course, is the "Lady of Regret".  Due both to her nature and the nature of the reincarnation cycle, she is one of the only gods among the Pantheon who is sustained from lifetime to lifetime without being wiped clean of memory: who she is and all that has come before.  

 

In this context, however, there is a more subtle point to be made about the nature of the word.  It is tied, fundamentally and inescapably, to the idea of free will and choice.   A puppet cannot "regret" its actions.  In order for the word to have meaning, a being must be able to say, "I could have chosen differently."   Regret, as a concept, requires free will.  It is dependent upon it, and is- for fallible Gods as we are - an unavoidable result of living.  Embracing choice, embracing one's own agency and the power to change, means inevitably enduring regret.

 

To tie this into my previous post, it's worth noting that the rituals that surround Mythal's worship are described as signifying "an intent to lay one's self bare, to champion a cause without pity, regret, or shame."  Mythal as Flemeth advises Hawke not to cling to regret- "to hold it so close it poisons your soul."  Regret, she seems to advise, should not be allowed to obstruct the path of Duty or Purpose.  The prospect of making a wrong choice -past or future- cannot be allowed to cow the individual into letting the currents of fate decide for her. We must, she advises, leap into the abyss and learn to fly on the way down.  

 

Spoiler


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#101908
Caddius

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Just had that conversation with Cole about how red lyrium sings a different song from the blue lyrium, one that the old whispers want to get behind the door, or something to that effect. And that Templars' attempts to connect to something 'bigger than themselves, something older' is what blocks the magic. It's interesting just how much of our hints come through dear Cole. And how confusing they can be.  :lol:


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#101909
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Preview:
littler_timeline.jpg

 

I'm way late to the party here (still catching up on the thread) but this... this is freaking gorgeous.   @w@


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#101910
madrar

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Translated into Jungian psychology (yes, I know I always end up here) these stages can be applied on a psyche-level transformation by being the Shadow, the animus/anima, the wise old man/woman archetype and the individuation, respectively. Translating this into Thedas as not a process, but a state of being in a cyclical shifting of powers, the Blight/red lyrium is clearly shadow-matter, i.e. the enemy within. The animus/anima is a representation of the purified soul, i.e. we could consider this the Fade in a sense, spirits and essences. The wise old man/woman - well, the first person who comes to mind is Flemmeth, but also Solas (and perhaps other gods); in fact, this could be a representation of the god-sphere in a sense, as citrinitas is the "solar light" which transcends the differentiation of animus/anima. Finally, the merging of the ego and the Self, true individuation in rubedo, the "distilled" product that goes through the previous 3 stages and is transformed.

 

Yeah, I could theorize on this for ages. I'm probably grasping at straws, though.  :whistle:

 

*gets the crazy eyes*

 

Gwyvian.   @w@   We need to talk.

 

Given the hints we have about the fractal nature of the DA universe and the (very theoretical) relationship between OGSes, Gods, and the brilliantly-burning souls we know of as "stars" as functional aspects of a single, once-unified mind, the potential for the Big Bang / Big Crunch of the universe as a scientific parallel for the process of Jungian individuation has driving me insane for a while now, but psychoanalysis is very much not my field. 

 

I can point out how the emergence of Pantheon and their various domains map to the brain and throw some hard science at DA's primordial creation myths that suggest the gods and other sentient entities of Thedas are a single mind taking itself apart and putting itself back together, but aside from an incredibly shallow understanding of the basic concepts of Jungian analysis, that's it.  That's as far as I can go.  

 

Gaider has more or less built this world on a Jungian model: the sleeping Fade of the individual being the personal unconscious, the raw Fade being the collective, populated by spirits and demons (literally "daemons", neurologically) acting independently for the benefit and detriment of the conscious mind that is the physical world, etc, etc.  But I can't dig any deeper than that, and it feels like something pretty fundamental has to be underlying the whole thing.

 

I would absolutely kill for a beginner-level description of exactly how individuation works.  (Not intended by the writers I'm sure, but it's kind of hilarious that Thedas is in its Middle Ages... hee.)  Also, does Jung get into things like repression?  The effect of pushing things down into the subconscious- that sort of thing?  



#101911
madrar

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*looks around, realizes she has actually caught up with the thread*

 

Good lord, it's been so long I've forgotten what comes after Tinfoil Hat Theories.

 

Porn, right?  Tell me it's porn. 


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#101912
Gwyvian

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Very nicely done. You do look awesome.  :D

 

If you can find liquid latex in the color you want, you might try using that for a more durable vallaslin. It held up well for me during the long gone age when I would cosplay as a Trill at Star Trek conventions.  :P

 

Oh, fellow Trekkies!  :wub: (Yes, I know, I'm supposed to reply to one quote at a time now, but... :D)

 

This has been nibbling at the back of my mind too.  There are a handful of lone mountains scattered across Thedas- ones that seem to rise from flat ground miles away from any connective mountain range- which seem like a good start toward a list of suspects:

 

The White Spire, near the forest of Arlathan

Dragon's Peak near the Brecilian forest

Mont de Glace on the edge of the Sundered Sea

 

Other possibilities:

 

Solatarios, the "Lonely One", near Asariel.  (Described as a solitary hill, possibly suggesting a very, very old mountain.)

Arl Dumat, which looks like a volcano on the border of the Urthemiel plateau

Belenas, which used to stand where Lake Calenhad now is according to Avvar myth.

The nameless theoretical volcano that created the Frostback Basin caldera

 

*tinfoil territory, beware!*

 

One of the things that seems potentially interesting here is that we seem to find volcanoes or the remnants of mountains that have been brought low in myths that are directly associated with the fall of Gods.  The caldera left by the Nameless God we find in the Frostback Basin.  Lake Calenhad, a crater filled with the Lady's tears when Korth fell to the serpent Nathramar and Belenas was levelled.  (Red lyrium Andruil taken out by Mythal.)    

 

Also (-and please somebody step in here if this isn't right, because I have no idea where this thought is coming from) I seem to remember a legend stating that if the line of Calenhad ever failed, Dragon's Peak would erupt.  It definitely feels like there's something here- some connection between each mountain, its God, and -potentially- a bloodline of the God's chosen.

 

As an aside, all of this does really weird things in my head when I think about this codex describing entities "hunting the pillars of the Earth".  The capitalization doesn't seem accidental, and perhaps this is how we reconcile the idea of "pillars" and huntable things: blood lines whose extermination would fell a "pillar"- one of the nine mountains.  That runs a bit counter to the original idea of one mountain = one god, though- perhaps the pillars of Earth are a separate thing?

 

That's a pretty comprehensive (and plausible) list right there.  :lol: I like the theory, too. Perhaps we can fuse the theory: it is one mountain = one god, but not originally. It could be that once one rises to godhood, they are "granted access" to the pillars of the Earth and they take control of one of them, i.e. becoming linked.

 

This would also explain the mythological compartmentalization of specialties that I had a problem with originally; i.e. the gods take over a certain source of power which is actually responsible for the various "gifts" given to mortals/immortal elves... not in a direct way, but in an elemental way. (See, I knew elements were the way to go!  :lol:) I mean that, for instance, the gift of fire isn't directly related to "there's a pillar about the gift of fire," rather the presence of heat and energy being present and mutable in the world, which leads the people to master it eventually.

 

Hmmm.....


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#101913
CapricornSun

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Oh hey! Art.  :ph34r:

 

Some Solas and Lavellan arts.

Spoiler

 

And some Solas arts.

Spoiler

 

Selfie. (Modern AU Zevran, Fenris, and Solas). 

 

Cute doodles.

 

Solas, Lavellan, and Cole in a haunted house.


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#101914
Gwyvian

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Bonus madness: the urn-grail is being guarded by a splinter sect that mirrors Catharism in ways that make my mind explode.  (The name of Andraste's disciple Cathaire is most certainly not a coincidence.)  The Cathar believed that human souls were the genderless spirits of angels, cursed to be reincarnated until they broke the cycle through a ritual called the consolamentum- unburdening themselves from unavoidable 'regret' acquired in the process of living.

 

Among Mythal's many titles, of course, is the "Lady of Regret".  Due both to her nature and the nature of the reincarnation cycle, she is one of the only gods among the Pantheon who is sustained from lifetime to lifetime without being wiped clean of memory: who she is and all that has come before.  

 

In this context, however, there is a more subtle point to be made about the nature of the word.  It is tied, fundamentally and inescapably, to the idea of free will and choice.   A puppet cannot "regret" its actions.  In order for the word to have meaning, a being must be able to say, "I could have chosen differently."   Regret, as a concept, requires free will.  It is dependent upon it, and is- for fallible Gods as we are - an unavoidable result of living.  Embracing choice, embracing one's own agency and the power to change, means inevitably enduring regret.

 

To tie this into my previous post, it's worth noting that the rituals that surround Mythal's worship are described as signifying "an intent to lay one's self bare, to champion a cause without pity, regret, or shame."  Mythal as Flemeth advises Hawke not to cling to regret- "to hold it so close it poisons your soul."  Regret, she seems to advise, should not be allowed to obstruct the path of Duty or Purpose.  The prospect of making a wrong choice -past or future- cannot be allowed to cow the individual into letting the currents of fate decide for her. We must, she advises, leap into the abyss and learn to fly on the way down.  

 

Spoiler

 

Hmmm, yes, fascinating points. *brain cogs whir*

 

Especially taken into a reincarnational context: regret is a permanent part of Mythal regardless of her advice because she is aware of all the strings of fate that have woven both the world and her in it to the point where she is at, yet that is exactly what enables her to see the wisdom in letting go of regret. I agree about this signifying free will, part of that is the choice to let go of what was or not to let go; ultimately, in my mind she represents a kind of martyr in this sense. She regrets for all, she holds all the memories (of the Collective, you could say) in a pool of sorrow, allowing her followers to transcend this aspect of existence and become Enlightened. (At least, that's my psychological/theological mish-mash takeaway.)

 

I find it interesting that the Cathar are so "prominent" in the ranks of Andraste's disciples in the form of Cathaire; a true cathartic transcendence is indicated yet again, reincarnations culminating in an ultimate Enlightenment and the whole "divine justice" of such a black thing as starvation being placed into the center of this holy war. In general I often find it slightly ironic how things demonized in general by such a religious institution (as even in Andraste's era it was, I presume, based on our experience of such things as the Inquisitor) becomes quite acceptable when doled out to the enemies of that institution; while mass starvation isn't the worst by far, it is still an interesting thing to hold in high regard due to it being a fortuitous circumstance for the divine army. (Only the Cathars would think this is good, haha.)

 

In fact... I'll go one step farther and bring the Moira into this, the weavers of fate. I am intimately acquainted with this subject and given her form of reincarnation, I believe there are quite a few pieces of evidence that would tie Mythal to such a role. She sees the strings of fate as I said before, because she has witnessed a lot and can remember all of that; she may not weave it directly, I'm still dubious about that, yet she has a distinct tendency to 1. always be present at great Moments of Fate for our various heroes, and 2. always say/do just the right things to set things into motion.

 

More on this later.


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#101915
Caddius

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*looks around, realizes she has actually caught up with the thread*

 

Good lord, it's been so long I've forgotten what comes after Tinfoil Hat Theories.

 

Porn, right?  Tell me it's porn. 

By porn you mean an abundance of exquisitely drawn maps, right?  :huh:

 

Again, with my Rogue Inquisitor (First Josie romance, yay! *throws confetti and throws out the silly stabbing daggers*) I keep hearing lines of dialogue that makes me twitchy after all of the dissecting of foreshadowing and theory-crafting. Namely, how casually Josie mentions wanting to see what lies beyond the Amaranthine Ocean, and knowing the Executors' warnings to certain Antivan merchants...

I'm just not sure if I want it in DLC or in DA4.  :lol:



#101916
Illyria

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I was reading World of Thedas last night and came across the poem Where Willows Wail.

 

'When waked, we walked where willows wail

whose withered windings wont wassail.

We weary-worn with waited wale,

were wavering with wanion ward.

When wishing waned, we wighters warred.

When wolfen wan, we wastrels warred.'

 

It was thought to be a poem from the Alamarri until an excavation at the Temple of Mythal found an elven connection.

 

Tel'enara bellana bana'vhenadahl

Sethen'a ir san'shiral, mala tel'halani

Ir sa'vir te'suledin var bana'vallaslin,

Vora'nadas san banal'him emma abel revas.

Ir tela'ena glandival, vir amin tel'hanin.

Ir tela las ir Fen halam, vir am'tela'elvahen.

 

Translated from elven the poem reads:

 

'We/it lost eternity or the ruined tree of the People,

Time won't help when the land of dreams is no longer our journey.

We try to lead despite the eventual failings of our markings.

To the inevitable and troubling freedom we are committed.

When we could no longer believe, we lost glory to war.

When the Wolf failed/won, we lost the people to war.'

 

I bolded the bits I found most interesting.

 

Ir abelas if this has been discussed before.


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#101917
Caddius

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Between Sifr's posts in the dwarf thread translating Tug the dwarf's 'The Stone lives beneath Orlais' and associated ancient dwarven to being something about 'dying in the service of the Dark Stone', and this elven poetry, I've really got to get World of Thedas. Both volumes.

Failings of our markings? What, did the vallaslin lend some magical ability? I can almost see their immortality being that they all have vallaslin of some kind (the nobility having it on their forearm or a tramp Arlathani stamp or something) and that ties them into a greater magical whole that rejuvenates them, sort of like how the Templars and dwarves are/were apparently connected to something greater that was anti-magic. *shrug*

Solas definitely seems to have been involved in some 'elven skirmishes,' as he puts it. The Fade no longer being their journey? Is that a reference to Uthenera, or to something else?

(Random side-note, back in the days when I tried out DnD, I had a friend named Tug who played a dwarf fighter that was geared up similar to Tug the dwarf. But with some oddly chosen skills. I learned his intentions when the first combat broke out. He gleefully shouted, "Tug goes prone!" and laid his heavily armored self on the ground, ignoring his tanking duties as his terrified companions learned whether or not Wizards could tank.)


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#101918
Gwyvian

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*gets the crazy eyes*

 

Gwyvian.   @w@   We need to talk.

 

Given the hints we have about the fractal nature of the DA universe and the (very theoretical) relationship between OGSes, Gods, and the brilliantly-burning souls we know of as "stars" as functional aspects of a single, once-unified mind, the potential for the Big Bang / Big Crunch of the universe as a scientific parallel for the process of Jungian individuation has driving me insane for a while now, but psychoanalysis is very much not my field. 

 

I can point out how the emergence of Pantheon and their various domains map to the brain and throw some hard science at DA's primordial creation myths that suggest the gods and other sentient entities of Thedas are a single mind taking itself apart and putting itself back together, but aside from an incredibly shallow understanding of the basic concepts of Jungian analysis, that's it.  That's as far as I can go.  

 

Gaider has more or less built this world on a Jungian model: the sleeping Fade of the individual being the personal unconscious, the raw Fade being the collective, populated by spirits and demons (literally "daemons", neurologically) acting independently for the benefit and detriment of the conscious mind that is the physical world, etc, etc.  But I can't dig any deeper than that, and it feels like something pretty fundamental has to be underlying the whole thing.

 

I would absolutely kill for a beginner-level description of exactly how individuation works.  (Not intended by the writers I'm sure, but it's kind of hilarious that Thedas is in its Middle Ages... hee.)  Also, does Jung get into things like repression?  The effect of pushing things down into the subconscious- that sort of thing?  

 

I am at utterly your disposal to talk about this subject! *bow*

 

This is actually quite a good understanding of the parallels, the only thing I would add is the respective relationships of these various layers. As I said in my alchemy post, Jungian psychology has a heavy basis in the magnum opus among other things; not to digress, the short of the construct is: the persona, the ego, the shadow, the animus/anima and the self.

 

Because this relates to your question, I shall start with the shadow: there is indeed repression in Jungian psychology, albeit the Jungian model is based on a slightly different construct than the traditional definition of repression you might find in Freudian psychology. I.e. repression is already accounted for in the whole unconscious/conscious divide, meaning that the shadow realm (the personal unconscious) is where the base instincts of people is pushed down into. The shadow is quite an important part of this model, because Jung recognizes the fact that one is simply not a complete person without this aspect of him/herself, yet he also recognizes that in order to function in society, the persona (i.e. the face we show to society) is a requirement. Many basic problems come from an extreme reaction to this balance in either direction: the desire to see the destruction of the persona or the desire to utterly quash the shadow. The shadow is where projections come from, too: an unconscious reaction to elements we instinctively know belong to our darker side, e.g. we loathe someone without any good reason (this is a recognition of something in ourselves), or complexes which cause us to see things in our surroundings which aren't actually there, e.g. we perceive someone to be brooding when in actuality they are fine. In general, Jung places a great deal of importance on dreams and visions, which all connect to both the personal unconscious and the collective unconscious, i.e. in Thedas, as you rightly say, the sleeping Fade and the raw Fade.

 

According to Jung, it is a mistake to assume that people "grow out of" the kind of "inferior" behavior that society requires us to repress throughout the developmental process, i.e. when one is an adult, aggression, lust, etc. that is left to run wild in early stages of development have not vanished at all, they are merely kept in check, so to speak, and when people do unexpected things (i.e. they snap and kill someone or they do something you would never think they could do), that is actually an expression of the shadow. It is also true that there is something inherently unnatural in someone who is so attached to the persona that they seem flawless and it leads to a shadow being cast anyway, because one cannot light a candle without casting a shadow; people usually sense that there is something horrible and dark in such a person. Which is actually true, though perhaps not as dramatically as one might assume, seeing as everyone has a shadow and that does not mean that they are inherently evil; it is all a matter of balance and whether or not one tends to both sides of him/herself. I find this part particularly fascinating, as people have such a knee-jerk reaction to their shadows, yet they are increasingly ruled by them the more they try to suppress it. It all makes sense to me!

 

The animus/anima is the realm that represents the opposite gender in the psyche, i.e. anima for men, animus for women; to put it very succinctly, you could say that this is the "mold" by which we choose our partners, the repressed elements of gender which is not ascribed to us by society... and I could go on, but here all I have to add that is even mildly on-topic is again the creation mythology: where male and female become distinct in terms of Mother Earth and Father Sky, the first division where such distinction matters and upon which the balance of duality is founded. That's universal enough that it would be a horrible oversight to leave it out of any self-respecting mythopoeic world.

 

The persona I touched upon already; all I would add is that this is the very surface, what people seem to be, and it is at the core of society in general. It is the foundation upon which all "othering" or differentiation creates conflict, which is again inherent to any self-respecting mythopoeic world, because it has such a strong anchor in our world. The important thing is that it is the persona model which adheres to the ideal of everyone in their place and everyone doing what they are good at; in its purest form, this would be the Qun. You cannot be a cobbler and a poet at the same time, it says, even though the true person behind the persona is much more complex than that.

 

The ego: this is possibly the most important and volatile of the layers of the psyche, as thought, emotion, sensation, intuition all revolve around the ego. The ego is inherently selfish, yet it is the ego that enables us to function normally, as to be able to be individuals; you must be able to distinguish yourself from everyone else. In this, I would say that here there are few large-scale parallels to be drawn apart from these obvious categories; we have elements of thought, emotion, etc. which are symbolized in many, many things across Thedas (not the least of which again involve demons and spirits, as you pointed out, all suspiciously named after virtues and vices that poke around in our mind).

 

I'm trying to be as succinct as possible, but it's a large subject.  :D

 

 

A beginner's level description of individuation... I think I can do that: imagine a tree in soil. The soil is the collective unconscious and the roots are the personal unconscious. In the trunk you go through the layers of the superego from within to without; the inner core is the true self, followed by the animus/anima, then the shadow, then the ego and finally, the persona, which is the outer bark. Growing from the collective unconscious upward, the crown of the tree becomes the final product of individuation, drawing on the roots of the collective/personal unconscious, filtered through the various layers of the psyche and finally reaching a point where the tree is truly an "individual," i.e. a fulfillment of the collective qualities of humanity by coming to a point of self-realization. (Much like the Big Bang/Big Crunch idea: you grow outward to finally reach the innermost point of your being, purified into an individual born of a collective, who then contributes to the collective which will bear more individuals.)

 

This is not to be confused with Western culture's idealized "individualism," which ultimately promotes selfishness and disregard for fellow human beings, of course. In fact, individuation can be seen as quite the opposite: the ego, while fundamental, must be put aside in order to fully transcend this process of growth. You become part of a whole, an individual with a healthy psyche who functions as a "representative" of the collective, in a sense. One may think that this is already described in the persona, yet this is also not true, as the persona is something that is dictated from the outside-in, not inside-out; the persona requires a restriction of your true self and a rigid adherence to what is expected of you, while individuation requires the ability to deviate from the norm without being consumed by the shadow. (The qunari would hate Jung.) In essence, individuation is the point where you become a fully developed expression of the collective, which you chisel throughout your life.

 

I would say that individuation is actually the most significant part of mythopoesis in general, because this is essentially what is described as the "hero archetype;" in mythology, the hero is the bridge between mortals and gods, the process of becoming someone unique and productive to society by embracing their inner godly powers and distinguishing themselves from other mortals by becoming the best they can (and I'm really barely scratching the surface with that). This is what is attributed to the adolescent phase of development. Now, as a mythopoeic form of art, any fantasy requires that there be some sort of hero to act as a role model for the reader/experiencer, which in DA is the Warden, Hawke and the Inquisitor, respectively. Individuation is what gaming is all about in a sense, but RPG's especially so, as they conduct actual mythopoesis.

 

 

...aaaand I will stop now before someone throws something at me.  :D I might as well just paste my thesis in here at some point and that would summarize all my thoughts on this latter subject, but I shan't torment everyone with that.

 

 

Back to theory-crafting!  :bandit:


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#101919
Caddius

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...aaaand I will stop now before someone throws something at me.  :D I might as well just paste my thesis in here at some point and that would summarize all my thoughts on this latter subject, but I shan't torment everyone with that.

 

 

Back to theory-crafting!  :bandit:

*throws likes at Gwyvian*

Well, I understood it. *beams* Which, considering my very little experience with Jungian psychology, means you explained it well. :lol:

I hadn't quite thought of the self-realization aspect of video games in general, as well as the Hero's Journey. *strokes beard thoughtfully* While it may be a strange example, when I think of the step where the hero sort of 'ascends' and gets their act together, I always compare Empire Strikes Back Luke Skywalker with Return of the Jedi Luke Skywalker. ESB Luke is occasionally whiny, clever but he tends to get into trouble, a bit arrogant, and walks around in blazing orange jumpsuits and a variety of 80's clothing.  :lol: From his opening scene in RotJ, he's eerily calm, wearing a simple black tunic with a collar that resembles a cleric, and proves to be much more competent. He's found his clarity of purpose. When he first found out the truth that Darth Vader is his midichlorian donor, he screams about how he can't be true and chooses death over confronting that truth. Compare, "I accept that you were once Anakin Skywalker, my father."

That, or Aang in the Series finale of Avatar:lol: 

As I play Here Lies the Abyss at the end of the game, the moment of my Inquisitor finally getting to grips with their fate and becomes the hero they were meant to be is when they accept the chains of command by leaving Hawke or the Warden to their death, and banish the demons at Adamant by clenching their fist, and then spin that into further evidence of Andraste's favor. Sacrifice, mastering the Anchor, and utilizing the people's faith for a greater good.

And now comes the realization that I'm talking out of my ass and understood nothing of the Jungian psychology.  ^_^


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#101920
Gwyvian

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*throws likes at Gwyvian*

Well, I understood it. *beams* Which, considering my very little experience with Jungian psychology, means you explained it well. :lol:

I hadn't quite thought of the self-realization aspect of video games in general, as well as the Hero's Journey. *strokes beard thoughtfully* While it may be a strange example, when I think of the step where the hero sort of 'ascends' and gets their act together, I always compare Empire Strikes Back Luke Skywalker with Return of the Jedi Luke Skywalker. ESB Luke is occasionally whiny, clever but he tends to get into trouble, a bit arrogant, and walks around in blazing orange jumpsuits and a variety of 80's clothing.  :lol: From his opening scene in RotJ, he's eerily calm, wearing a simple black tunic with a collar that resembles a cleric, and proves to be much more competent. He's found his clarity of purpose. When he first found out the truth that Darth Vader is his midichlorian donor, he screams about how he can't be true and chooses death over confronting that truth. Compare, "I accept that you were once Anakin Skywalker, my father."

That, or Aang in the Series finale of Avatar:lol:

As I play Here Lies the Abyss at the end of the game, the moment of my Inquisitor finally getting to grips with their fate and becomes the hero they were meant to be is when they accept the chains of command by leaving Hawke or the Warden to their death, and banish the demons at Adamant by clenching their fist, and then spin that into further evidence of Andraste's favor. Sacrifice, mastering the Anchor, and utilizing the people's faith for a greater good.

And now comes the realization that I'm talking out of my ass and understood nothing of the Jungian psychology.  ^_^

 

*blush*  :lol:

 

This is basically the subject of my thesis, fantasy and sci-fi across all media and how they are filling the void left behind by mythology by engaging in mythopoesis; your examples are good! That is exactly what I am talking about. The archetypical hero always has godly attributes, yet s/he is a mortal; translated to fiction, they are the chosen ones for whatever reason. Usually they must undergo trials (in psychology this is the phase where one confronts the archetypes of childhood and is reborn in a painful process called adolescence and eventually becomes a fully developed individual) and they grow into their role and save the world. To put it succinctly. So Luke's evolution from the guy who everything happens to into the one who can defeat the archetypes his father represents and evolve beyond that while saving everyone in the process is the transformation from "just any guy" into "hero." The "just any guy" part of it is very important, of course, because that is the starting point where readers/watchers can form a bond, the idea being that you evolve subconsciously and consciously along with him where he evolves literally. You naturally translate this into your own existence, of course, you find synchronicities between what you read/experience to your own life, which enables you to learn from fiction as if you had actually experienced everything you read/watched/played. I've tested this quite extensively and there's actually an amazing level to which this works; I can do things and know things that I would never have, had I not "participated" in particular works of fiction.

 

In a nutshell, I attribute people's attraction to genre fiction (whether in books, movies or video games) to a basic need that modern society and some theology as it is fails to fulfill. We no longer live with mythology in our everyday lives, so we replace it with new mythology that is based on Tolkien's suspension of disbelief; i.e. what we are all doing here on this forum on this thread all contributes to that. However, I venture beyond this and postulate that because of the evolution of entertainment, we are actually expanding upon what mythology originally gave us; i.e. in a genre fiction book, you are not merely hearing about a hero, but you journey with the hero and can imagine yourself in that role; you begin to emulate characters or specific characteristics that enrich you as an individual. Genre fiction movies do not add too much to that, in fact it places some inhibitions on your ability to integrate what you see, yet the concept of visualizing everything and being shown, not told, is brought to a new height, which may be a better way to receive certain types of information; add to that the level of audio input and you have yet another layer of reception that loops back to the era of oral tradition. Finally, with video games you reach an even deeper layer, because you literally experience on a level where you actually play the hero in the story. This has a lot of traps in it and it is still a relatively new enough phenomenon that the full repercussions aren't fully explored, yet I think that video games have the potential to outstrip classical mythology by leagues if used properly (provided that consumer culture can be coaxed to not only consume, but actually absorb and integrate on a conscious level - yet even without that I think that people sense they are being enriched and changed by their virtual experience which has an impact regardless of whether or not you analyze it to death). In general I'm all about an academic review of gaming in terms of psychology, anthropology and literature; plus I get to say that when I'm playing games I am researching, and I actually mean that.  :D

 

One day! One day I shall write a book about this. Once I stop running around like a headless chicken trying to squeeze in all my ambitions into one profession. I want to do so many things.....

 

Edit: top post lazy screenshot solution...

Spoiler


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#101921
Illyria

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Between Sifr's posts in the dwarf thread translating Tug the dwarf's 'The Stone lives beneath Orlais' and associated ancient dwarven to being something about 'dying in the service of the Dark Stone', and this elven poetry, I've really got to get World of Thedas. Both volumes.

Failings of our markings? What, did the vallaslin lend some magical ability? I can almost see their immortality being that they all have vallaslin of some kind (the nobility having it on their forearm or a tramp Arlathani stamp or something) and that ties them into a greater magical whole that rejuvenates them, sort of like how the Templars and dwarves are/were apparently connected to something greater that was anti-magic. *shrug*

Solas definitely seems to have been involved in some 'elven skirmishes,' as he puts it. The Fade no longer being their journey? Is that a reference to Uthenera, or to something else?

 

 

I think 'failings of our markings' refers to the betrayal of the gods (which connects to the 'troubling freedom' of the next line).

 

Actually:

 

The 'lost eternity' is the immortality of the elves.  This lost of immortality was caused by the betrayal of Mythal (the 'ruined tree of the people' is her vallaslin.)  Those who remained loyal to the gods were able to keep their immortality (Abelas and his company are still servants of Mythal, and still immortal (unless the theory in World of Thedas is correct and Abelas and the rest of his cult are elves who believed they are from Arlathan (possibly from drinking from the well?)))

 

The land of dreams obviously means the Fade.  It not being their journey means that once all elves were dreamers?

 

So... the immortality of the elves and their magic were tied up in the power of the gods?  Or am I just seeing things in this poem I want to see?


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#101922
CapricornSun

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I just stumbled upon some really sad Solavellan artwork and the artist just had to include the singing of the Dalish lullaby to make it even sadder. :(

 

 

And to counter that, here's some really, really NSFW art of Solas doing naughty things to Lavellan with a paintbrush:ph34r:

(Actually, the artist says it's just a general f!Inquisitor but I'd like to think it's Lavellan anyway. Fight me! :P)


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#101923
MoonDrummer

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Oh, I won't call you bloody idiot to your face. :P

Iorveth is the best! That bloodthirsty madman is just adorable. I'd side with him again and again.

But be sure to go the Roche path at least once because it will be a completely different game then and it is great to see the other side of the coin.

And in The Witcher, just kill everything. :P Well... actually I let every major person live, hoping to see him/her again in the next game. (The decisions you make do actually matter here.)

Oh, and at the end, make sure to tell me what decision you made. I am curious! :lol:

Completed it, saved Triss and let Letho go. I feel like I made a mistake in saving Triss though. 


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#101924
NightSymphony

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Art time for me toooo

 

Awww...this is too adorable!!

http://liliumsnow.de...-Idea-533571929

 

Lineart

http://danisjarofsta...neart-533583332

 

Wicked Eyes And Wicked Hearts

http://huntersarz.de...henan-533579317

 

In Hushed Whispers Part 10

http://krissymadcat....rt-10-533511548

 

 

 

NSWF

Source - http://mahou-shota.d...-Lath-533422368

Direct link - http://pre10.deviant...ota-d8tl3c0.png


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#101925
Cee

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Was this posted? It's adorable.

 

http://lilium-snow.t...d-wolf-lavellan


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