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Solas Thread - NOW OFFICIALLY MOVED to Cyonan's BSN (link in OP)


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#101951
Caddius

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How does carrying over the save work for the witcher? Do they have their own version of the keep? I'll be using a different console when I get the 3rd one. 

 

What I like about the North is that all the Kings are both pretty cool and massive asses at the same time. Foltest and Eyeball McSpoony stand out. I would say Henselt, but I've been informed by friends that liking Henselt would make me a bad person, they wont tell me why though, and demand I find out myself.  :lol:

Play Roche's Path and you'll understand why saying Henselt would make you a bad person.  :unsure:

And yeah, I love (most) of the monarchs in The Witcher. For a man who produced a flesh-eating monster with his overly beloved sister, Foltest sure was charming.

Eyeball McSpoony.  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: He's my favorite.


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#101952
VelvetV

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The game very much acknowledges that those two have met before. :)

 

Ah, okay then. I was avoiding all spoilery stuff, so I had no idea :)

 

This is good! The game is going for something new and unexpected.



#101953
MoonDrummer

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I didn't know Triss would survive either way, I just assumed it. But I wouldn't really have minded her dying either. Saskia was simply more important for me.

I went about your way, only I let Sile live. I liked how somebody said that I really didn't do her any favor by letting her live, only to be hunted down by the bloodthirsty mob, me replying that I was very much aware of this. :lol:

I like Triss, I feel like I missed a bit on that by not playing the first game and I'm a bit confused about the whole Yennefer thing, but overall I liked the romance, even if she does disappear for the most part. 

 

As for letting Sile live, Iorveth told me that Loredo would eventually be killed and he ended up selling Flotsam and screwing over everyone in the city, so I think I'll just make sure the people I want to die are dead from now on.  :lol:

 

I was going to let Stennis live until he started talking.



#101954
Illyria

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God lord, that's a thick poem to untangle.  Not even Cole pulls off that crazy degree of alliteration- which itself seems to suggest authorship by spirits/ancient Elvhen, regardless of the contents.  Though I doubt we can take the words too literally, given how difficult it must have been to twist meaning into alliterative shape, let's try pulling it apart:

 

When waked, we walked where willows wail
whose withered windings wont wassail.
 
When we woke, we travelled (eluvian?) paths long abandoned.  "Where willows wail" brings to mind the paths between eluvians, where flora responds to the presence of Elvhen, but that's just supposition.  "Withered windings wont wassail" underscores the idea that these paths are in poor repair, or decaying.  "Withered" in particular suggests either lack of use or lack of sustaining magic while the authors slept. 
 
We weary-worn with waited wale,
were wavering with wanion ward.
 
Mentally exhausted by the hanging threat of punishment, we found our strength had been sapped by vengeful magic.  This is debatable on a number of levels.  "Waited wale" seems to me to imply a Damacles-like sense of impending doom, the "wale" of the master's lash.  I think "Wanion ward" is literally vengeful/cursed magic.  Taken together, this might point to the authors as being rebel slaves of the Elvhen pantheon: those who had risen against their masters found that the power of their vallaslin had been stripped.
 
When wishing waned, we wighters warred.
When wolfen wan, we wastrels warred.
 
When magic began to fade, we fought each other.  When Halamshiral fell, we fought the humans.  These lines seem to reference two significant conflicts in elvhen history, but again, this is a very debatable interpretation.  "When wishing waned" seems like a plausible fit for the waning of magic among the elvhen, and in that case, they fought "wighters" - strong, brave soldiers, possibly a sign of respect for their brethren.   "When wolfen wan" (when the Emerald Knights failed) they fought "wastrels" - a term of contempt for their adversary.  
 
*shrug*  That's all I can piece together.  Anyone else have a take on this?

 

 
This whole thing is crazy interesting.  @w@   The references to lost immortality, the "blocked" paths of the reincarnation cycle, the failing of vallaslin's power- and then again- the two big conflicts of Elvhen history: the fall of Arlathan and Halamshiral.  I'm going to have to chew all of this over for a bit.
 

 

 

I gave my own (very short) analysis of the poem earlier.  I haven't had time to go over it properly.  To be honest, I hadn't really looked at the Aldamarri version of the poem as I hadn't seen it as important as the elvish version of it (plus, way too much aliteration in there.  I have the feeling Weekes was behind this one), so your insight into it was very interesting.

 

EDIT: I personally see the later aliterative poem as being what remained of the original elvish after being past down through generations.  Do you have World of Thedas?  The section on this poem offers some in universe scholarship which you might be interested it.  I wont reproduce it if you have your own copy, though.


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#101955
madrar

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I am at utterly your disposal to talk about this subject! *bow*

 

This is actually quite a good understanding of the parallels, the only thing I would add is the respective relationships of these various layers. As I said in my alchemy post, Jungian psychology has a heavy basis in the magnum opus among other things; not to digress, the short of the construct is: the persona, the ego, the shadow, the animus/anima and the self.

 

This.  Is.  Awesome.   Thank you!   Putting aside how it might potentially map to the universe at large, I would love to dig deeper into how it seems to map to Solas.  

 

We have a parallel for the persona- the god "masks" of Fen'Harel, Dirthamen and Falon'din.

 

The ego- literally Solas = "Pride" = Ego.  Not in the literal sense perhaps, but as a secondary layer of meaning, I'm almost certain it's intentional.

 

The shadow:  his partner OGS Falon'din, still connected but now repressed/relegated to the subconscious/Fade.   We know Solas harbors a fair bit of self-recrimination for the "cocky, brash" youth he used to be, back when Dirthamen and Falon'din shared a conscious mind.  He blames the Shadow side of himself for the conflict and misery that followed the failed rebellion, forgetting that it was objectively justified.  And given the hinted cyclical/fractal nature of the universe, I don't think it's coincidence that his Shadow is a fragment of the Sun: impulsiveness, anger, ambition, propensity for war, etc.  Push it down, try to suppress it, and Bad Things Happen.

 

Do you think Lavellan's role as a potential Anima might explain divergence in the romanced/non-romanced Solavellan path? (ie: does the Anima factor into the individuation process?)  

 

Given the larger picture, it seems like in order to fix the world, we might want to start with fixing Solas.  =w=  Pushing him to reconcile more completely with his Shadow side, this sublimated right brain with its (super useful!) empathy, abstract morality, and unrelenting drive to take action when faced with social injustice, could be key.  


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#101956
Illyria

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This.  Is.  Awesome.   Thank you!   Putting aside how it might potentially map to the universe at large, I would love to get just a bit deeper into how it might map to Solas.  

 

We have a parallel for the persona- the God masks of Fen'Harel, Dirthamen and Falon'din.

 

And the ego- literally Solas = "Pride" = Ego.  Not in the literal sense perhaps, but as a secondary layer of meaning I'm certain it's intentional.

 

The shadow:  his spirit-self Falon'din, still connected but now repressed/relegated to the subconscious/Fade.   We know Solas harbors a fair bit of self-recrimination for the "cocky, brash" youth he used to be, back when Dirthamen and Falon'din shared a conscious mind.  He blames the Shadow side of himself for the conflict and misery that followed the failed rebellion, forgetting that it was objectively justified.  And given the hinted cyclical/fractal nature of the universe, I don't think it's coincidence that his Shadow is a fragment of the Sun: impulsiveness, anger, ambition, propensity for war, etc.  Push it down, try to suppress it, and Bad Things Happen.

 

Do you think Lavellan's role as a potential Anima might explain divergence in the romanced/non-romanced Solavellan path? (ie: does the Anima factor into the individuation process?)  

 

Given the larger picture, it seems like in order to fix the world, we might want to start with fixing Solas.  =w=  Pushing him to reconcile more completely with his Shadow side, this sublimated right brain with its (super useful!) empathy, abstract morality, and unrelenting drive to take action when faced with social injustice, could be key.  

 

I'm still not too sure why you theorise that Solas/Fen'Harel is also the Twins.  I remember you bringing this up a lot in the past.  Is there a chance you could explain it to me in a way that assumes I am really, really stupid?


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#101957
Jadestone

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SO MUCH INTERESTING THEORY HAPPENING!!! I am delighted. I also don't have time to contribute right now :( I will just read and try to wrap my brain around it instead.

 

I do have time to dump another fic though! I think other people here were mentioning that they found the da'len/hahren dynamic used in a lot of Solavellan fics uncomfortable.

 

I also do not think my Lavellan would be the sort to appreciate it.

 

So:

 

A Slip of the Tongue

Spoiler

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#101958
Cee

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Map porn totally counts.   <3

 

That made me think of Kestrel's latest: http://archiveofouro...g/works/3951532


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#101959
Cee

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SO MUCH INTERESTING THEORY HAPPENING!!! I am delighted. I also don't have time to contribute right now :( I will just read and try to wrap my brain around it instead.

 

I do have time to dump another fic though! I think other people here were mentioning that they found the da'len/hahren dynamic used in a lot of Solavellan fics uncomfortable.

 

I also do not think my Lavellan would be the sort to appreciate it.

 

So:

 

A Slip of the Tongue

Spoiler

 

 

I'm one of those who dislikes that dynamic and I really liked this. :)

 

 

Despite these sorts of tales taking place in between scenes we already know, it's still inevitable to wish he just goes for it. :P  Nice final line too.


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#101960
madrar

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I'm still not too sure why you theorise that Solas/Fen'Harel is also the Twins.  I remember you bringing this up a lot in the past.  Is there a chance you could explain it to me in a way that assumes I am really, really stupid?

 

This post outlines the basic idea, but admittedly kind of poorly.   TwT   The whole thing is built from a multitude of teeny, tiny details and is almost entirely circumstantial, but it has a lot of explanatory power: much of the timeline (and several otherwise difficult-to-explain pieces of lore like the "Tevinter" mosaics) can be tamed into making sense if we use it as a base assumption. 

 

Quick attempt at a 1000-foot overview:

 

As an entity, Solas embodies balance in a literal sense: he is composed of two fragments of the eternal war that underlies the DA universe: Order and Chaos.  Ancient Elvhen mosaics imply that the two halves may have originally shared a single physical body, which makes a certain amount of sense given that Dirthamen and Falon'Din seem to map to the left and right forebrain of a single sentient being.  I believe they were, originally, intended to act as one.

 

~I'm going to seriously simplify functional lateralization here - cog sci people look awaaaay~

 

Dirthamen (who is dominant in the Solas we know) represents the left brain, where analytic processing takes place.  Math, science, logic- these areas are where the left brain shines.  More importantly, when it comes to morality, this side of the brain takes a deliberative, calculative view: the greatest good for the greatest number.  The right side of the brain, Falon'din, processes social cues a bit differently.  The left brain is empathetic- it understands emotional processing in others, and has an abstract view of morality.  This is the side that would have pushed the combined self to take action when the Pantheon's rule over the People became an iron fist, and it was the side that was consigned eternally to the Fade when the rebellion failed.  (Due to his domain and theoretical ability to use the Fade as a spiritual path between bodies like eluvians provide paths between places, Falon'din couldn't be punished with exile in abyssal form the way Dirthamen could be. Instead, he was imprisoned by Mythal and relegated permanently to the fade.)

 

When Dirthamen was released from the Void as Fen'Harel, he was still connected to Falon'Din through the fade (aka, on a subconscious level) and thus we find F'H still represented in statuary as two halves: the loyal Hound (Order) and the howling Dread Wolf (Chaos).  The Solas we know today is much the same.  He is governed primarily by his right brain: the monosemantic, predeterministic, analytic self.   That's not to say he's totally without connection to Falon'Din, however.  Unless he's been painting in his sleep, the fact that Solas can express himself through art is a significant hint that he's not as completely divorced from his left brain as it might seem at first glance.  

 

Still, a lot of the problematic character traits we see in Solas are directly related to "Dirthamen's" dominance.  As I mentioned earlier, the left brain is monosemantic and predeterministic, which is just a complicated way of saying that once it believes it knows what a thing is, that is literally all that it can be.  Because the left brain handles the heavy lifting of analytic processing, it tends to cut corners where it can in terms of taking in new data from the outside world.  Instead it creates its own internal idea of how the world works, and references that instead.  In many ways, the left brain is almost entirely disengaged from the reality of the world around it.

 

This is (kind of brilliantly) referenced in Solas' rant against an Assquisitor.  Lines like "how entirely expected" are the essence of the predeterministic left brain.  This tendency even surfaces with a friendly Inquisitor, since the Inquisitor's deviation from expectation comes as such a surprise.  (As we know, it takes him forever to notice, and even then he treats the Inquisitor as a strange oddity- a unique blip in his conception of how the world works, rather than allowing external data to change his internal perspective.)

 

This is also apparent in the way Solas views other members of the Inquisition.  Cassandra is often "Seeker"- her role literally stands in for who she is in his mind: his conception of her place in the universe. Verric is often simply "Child of the Stone".  On a more romantic note, the same holds for "Vehnan".  More obviously, this applies to his perspective during Cole's quest to become human- a position some felt to be out of character, but completely in line with the monosemantic nature of the left brain.  

 

"This is not some fanciful story, Child of the Stone.  We cannot change our nature by wishing."

 

To Solas, Cole simply is what he is -a Spirit of Compassion- and that is all that he can and should be.   The thought that he could choose to be otherwise, and take action to literally make it so, is almost impossible for him to admit.

 

Bonus: as we Solavellans can attest, the left neocortex also has a prominent role in romantic love: it makes the left ACC and AI light up like a Christmas tree.  What it can't do very well is judge how the other person is feeling, sense pain in others, or react properly in an emotional context.  ...so, yeah.  Sounds familiar.

 

Holy HELL, I am way off topic.  @w@   Sorry about that.   The basic in-game evidence is all in the other thread.  


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#101961
Jadestone

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That made me think of Kestrel's latest: http://archiveofouro...g/works/3951532

 

oh my GOD, I WAS JUST WISHING FOR SOLAVELLAN WAR TABLE BANGIN' FIC THE OTHER DAY

 

little did I know my desire had already been fulfilled <3 


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#101962
madrar

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EDIT: I personally see the later aliterative poem as being what remained of the original elvish after being past down through generations.  Do you have World of Thedas?  The section on this poem offers some in universe scholarship which you might be interested it.  I wont reproduce it if you have your own copy, though.

 

I would love to track that down.  Is it in the first WoT or WoT2?  (I'm still slowly chugging through the latter.)



#101963
Cee

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oh my GOD, I WAS JUST WISHING FOR SOLAVELLAN WAR TABLE BANGIN' FIC THE OTHER DAY

 

little did I know my desire had already been fulfilled <3

 

The descriptions are just so good (and fun!).



#101964
madrar

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*blush*  :lol:

 

This is basically the subject of my thesis, fantasy and sci-fi across all media and how they are filling the void left behind by mythology by engaging in mythopoesis; your examples are good!

 

<snip>

 

*demands posted thesis*   @w@

 

I have to admit, though- it sounds like it skirts an aspect of Campbell-Jungian thought that always sets my teeth on edge: the fetishization of the unknown and the idea that modern life has a gaping hole where the gods used to be.  

 

Spoiler

 

I'm probably arguing a straw man given my weak grasp on Jung, but to me, the rational/scientific drive to understand the world does nothing to diminish it.  If anything (personally speaking) it actually enhances the sense of ego-deflating awe he associates with deity worship.  Understanding the Sun to be an almost unimaginably vast, roiling nuclear inferno millions of miles away with a critical role in the paper-thin balance of life on Earth is far more awe-inspiring to me than if it was a mysterious, life-giving orb hanging in the sky.

 

*bites down on the urge to yell C'MON FIGHT ME at Jung's gravestone*

 

Anyway, the core concept (games as a way to engage personal mythopoesis) could very well be the point for Bioware.  The subtext that the struggle to maintain Balance between Order/Chaos is universal, that the Hero's Journey continues outside the game world, and that free will / choice is modern magic all seem to point at that general idea.

 

"Nice work saving Thedas, now get out there and change the World."  ^w^


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#101965
MayriyaNoori

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I think my mind just melted a little reading the whole Fen'Harel-Falon'Din-Dirthamen stuff.

 

AND I LOVED IT!!

 

On a slight side note, and I'm sure this must have been discussed at some point but why are there absolute no elven/humanoid depictions of Fen'Harel? And if there are could someone point me to them and just disregard the following stuff I say.

 

I mean, I guess it makes sense in a way that if Fen'Harel himself was asked "Hey, can we make an image of you?" and his reply being an a big "No, just in case I need to be sneaky-sneaky in a few thousand years."



#101966
Nehn

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I'm sorry, this is COMPLETELY offtopic, but the recent Game of Thrones episode PISSED ME OFF. I AM SO ANGRY THAT IT WAS OVER. HOW DARE THEY END IT WHEN THE EPISODE WAS GETTING SO AMAZING.

 

Now then, time for some Dragon Age fan fiction writing (to publish or not to publish ...) to get over my anger. Cole, where are you when I need you. 


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#101967
NightSymphony

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Cole to brighten your day/night

 

http://hessarian.dev...Grace-503114302

 

http://frosted-monst...-Cole-499578994

 

http://isbjorg.devia...-Cole-519870714

 

http://nyansekai.dev...sitor-530130990

 

http://jazzmire.devi...-Cole-517781293


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#101968
NightSymphony

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And this pretty awesome Solas art

http://shivikai.devi...-Mage-533704973


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#101969
CapricornSun

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My turn for art. :P

 

Even the wolves ship Solavellan. :lol:

 

Modern AU Solas and Lavellan.

 

More haunted house fun! :D (Cole, Solas, and Lavellan.)

Spoiler

 

Solas and Lavellan at the Crossroads.

 

"Who's that pokemon?"

 

Cute Solas by osatokun.

 

Solas and the orb.

 

Young Solas.

 

Beauty and the Beast parody. xD (Josephine, Blackwall, and Solas.)

 

The Inquisition as Animal Crossing characters!


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#101970
NightSymphony

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hehehe..that first one with the wolves is adorable!! :D



#101971
Cee

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Little Cole frog ^_^

 

I like another person'a set better, but this one at least made Solas a wolf.



#101972
NightSymphony

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hehehe...another adorable comic by liliumsnow

http://liliumsnow.de...-Idea-533765791

 

Edit:  I use the the word adorable way too much in this thread. :-P


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#101973
Cee

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hehehe...another adorable comic by liliumsnow

http://liliumsnow.de...-Idea-533765791

 

Edit:  I use the the word adorable way too much in this thread. :-P

 

 

I think adorable is the exact right term for her work though. :)


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#101974
ChuChu

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I'm way late to the party here (still catching up on the thread) but this... this is freaking gorgeous.   @w@

<3



#101975
Cee

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I'm so very glad JoH is coming out for everyone next week. Finally. Then we can talk about it a bit more openly soon afterward, and hopefully we'll begin to hear about other DLC plans  in the next month or two.


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