153431 réponses à ce sujet

[Caddius]

We know from the Temple of Mythal Codex entries that shapeshifting into dragons was reserved for the divine and their chosen followers, and we see an excerpt from someone being punished for breaking that sanctity. So it's been theorized that the Old Gods were actually the High Priests stuck in dragon form, the gods themselves (this seems more unlikely nowadays), or the Forgotten Ones being blasphemous.

[ChuChu]

We know from the Temple of Mythal Codex entries that shapeshifting into dragons was reserved for the divine and their chosen followers, and we see an excerpt from someone being punished for breaking that sanctity. So it's been theorized that the Old Gods were actually the High Priests stuck in dragon form, the gods themselves (this seems more unlikely nowadays), or the Forgotten Ones being blasphemous.

And if they were chosen followers? Only the most devout would sacrifice their lives like that, right, let alone achieve perfected uthenara?

Or something to do with the Forgotten Ones. Not saying it's anything to seriously think about. Just a passing thought that flitted by xD

[Siha]

But when the Well of Sorrows was revealed to be in prime condition, he was clued in that Mythal had endured everything and was still active in the world. So now it's the Orb or his best friend dying (again).

 

I am still puzzled here. Where do you all get this from, that Mythal dies or that Solas kills her?

 

What we know:

Mythal can transmit her soul, her self, in almost any container -- a full grown body or even just a wisp. Furthermore, she can even split it up and transmit tiny parts, which are enough to reconstruct herself later.

Mythal chose to live inside the body of Flemeth, and whenever one body failed she would switch bodies and transfer into the body of a "daughter" of Flemeth's.

The next time this transfer would have been necessary (because Flemeth's body was failing) was 10 years ago and the daughter in question was Morrigan. Since she broke the cycle, Mythal was stuck in Flemeth. However, 10 years have passed and this body is way overdue. Still sustained by Mythal's power, but all organic things must die eventually.

 

What we see:

A completely unagitated Flemythal greets Solas, they tell each they how sorry they are things didn't turn out as planned; and then Flemeth's body slumps down as Mythal's "power" (what exactly? Her soul? Her magic? A part of her, like those scattered throughout the world in DA2?) leaves it and transfers to Solas.

 

So how do we think this is murder? Why not another body change and Solas just acting as a new (temporary) host because Morrigan refused (yet) and no other willing and suitable body has been found? Maybe he only carries her around for a while, merging his powers with hers, and then finds her a new body (possibly Morrigan) and she goes on like before?

 

Either way, I don't see murder. Flemeth's body was old and had been sustained beyond her natural lifespan already. And that Mythal died, really, we've got no evidence for that.

 

Dragons are really resistant to the blight, I'm sure that would play a part in it. And the music... when its twisted to be sick, it super charges the infection? I like the theory mentioned earlier about the prison, though, and a cancerous infection kind of slowly oozing out. 

And something just occurred to me. What if shape changing was a thing back then? And the Arch Demons aren't just dragons, they are elves who shape shifted in to dragons?

 

We discussed this about... I dunno. A thousand pages back or so. Oxi brought forth a theory comparing the Blight with cancer (including possible effects on the brain --> the Song) and somebody else mentioned fungi, which would account for the sort of "viral spreading" and throughout infection of a host, including the changes to the body and mind. I can't quite decide which theory I prefer, cancer or fungus, but we can always come up with a hybrid -- a fungus infecting a host, triggering a cancer-like disease, which leads to brain cell decay and, thus, somehow allows for this sort of hive mind, e.g., by lowering the sensory gating (or the like). That "somehow" part, meaning how one thing leads to the other, that's still a gap though in this working theory. Dragons would then simply have a higher resistance to that fungus.

 

I've heard this before, the shapeshifting idea, along with the idea that in fact the archdemons are only remote-controlled by the gods/powerful mages. I forgot who brought it forth though and I don't think it was elaborated in too much detail.

 

And: yay, more art!

[Caddius]

Yeah, I screwed up. 

Assuming that the dev notes and the visual cues in the scene, Mythal seems to transfer her 'godhood' (probably her personality and memories) to Morrigan, which is what that spark is. Then the raw power goes to Solas. So Flemeth essentially dies, but it's up in the air how much of her was Flemeth and how much was Mythal in the first place. I think I was focusing a bit on Solas's sad panda face just as the Orb breaks rather than the Epilogue itself. 

I completely forgot about the body transfer being 'overdue', as it were.  I'd be cranky too if I got stuck in an old body for that long when I'd expected to get rid of back pain.

I wonder if the daughters' personalities add to the main Flemythal combo? So instead of being just a spirit/human mix that's very convoluted like Anders and Justice, she's a conglomerate of Mythal, Flemeth, and centuries of daughters? 

[CapricornSun]

<snip>

And now for something TOTALLY different, I got bored. Have an arty Solas thing!

Spoiler

Preview: 

 

ChuChu, your art! Ack! I love it!   More pls.... 

[CapricornSun]

Speaking of art... Leaving these here.

 

Companion Fears Part 1 - Iron Bull, Cole, and Solas.

Spoiler

http://hauvatiaene.t...companion-fears

 

 

Lavellan, Blackwall, and Solas.

Spoiler

http://faejilly.tumb...st/119410201578

 

 

DA:I Romanceables looking fancy.

Spoiler

http://aidankalenko....xt-in-the-empty

 

[Siha]

Yeah, I screwed up. 

...

but it's up in the air how much of her was Flemeth and how much was Mythal in the first place.

...

I wonder if the daughters' personalities add to the main Flemythal combo? So instead of being just a spirit/human mix that's very convoluted like Anders and Justice, she's a conglomerate of Mythal, Flemeth, and centuries of daughters? 

 

I didn't mean to say "it is definitely wrong", only "where do you get this from?" because I think we are sort of in a hovering state. I personally also do not see where/when/how Flemythal transfers anything to Morrigan. I would even argue that she does not, because so far Morrigan is not willing but "a soul is not forced on the unwilling". Flemeth did push something through the Eluvian, but we don't know where it went to. Maybe it just waits in the crossroads until Morrigan is finally ready.

 

To the second and last sentences combined: this is a major gap in the writing, I think.

In general I think two things possible: (1) a body is only a container, otherwise empty, and the soul fills it or (2) the soul merges with the content of this container, adding to it.

In the case of Flemeth obviously (2) happened (because her ideas, opinions, memories etc. are still there). But when it comes to her daughters it seems to be (1). None of the additions made by any of her daughters over the centuries seems relevant. Might as well be the same old Flemeth. We never get another personality shine through, no other memories or anything. It's all only Flemeth (and Mythal).

 

In fact, it's even worse than (1), because it seems nearly like she didn't even transfer into the daughters' bodies but instead only sucked out their life force like a vampire -- in DAO Flemeth kept saying things like "I used to beautiful when I was young, so many ages ago, but now I'm only an old woman". Didn't quite resonate with the body acquisition for me. This is just one of the things that seem very imprecise to me.

 

Anyway, I consider this a slip or undecidedness by the devs. The issue with Flemeth and Mythal and the body hopping is overall extremely vague and, in part, even contradictory. Maybe they planned something first and now try to adjust it somehow. Or they didn't plan it out at all yet. I'm not sure. I just know that there is no clear guideline regarding the use of bodies and/or life force. All we know is that Mythal chose Flemeth as a host and that the hand-selected daughters contribute to the sustained existence somehow.

[Gwyvian]

Watch out for pale horses, guys. 

Spoiler

I couldn't help it. The narrator for it has gone on at great length about 'broken seals' and '-15 to fertility why did you go north you idiot you've doomed us all'.

So perhaps the Archdemons were originally the physical shells of something more powerful? Something bound into the dragons so that they could be trapped below ground? Not killed by Arlathan, because they were still needed?

The Warden and Old God Souls colliding equaling the death of both becomes curious indeed.

*cough* As someone who is part-Hungarian....  That's just hilarious. Attila... I should say: ATTila even though that pronunciation is completely off. 

 

Back on topic.

 

I wouldn't say they're shells exactly, more like living dragons were forcibly "connected" to something. Like Horcruxes. Well, I suppose you could consider that a shell in a way, but I'm inclined to think there is a connection in the fact that they would have used living creatures, not just a construct of some sort. (If this theory has any merit, of course.) Perhaps someone noticed the fact that dragons have the ability to actually form a kind of natural shield between themselves and the corruption that infected the gods, which would make them an ideal barrier to it, but instead of extracting their power somehow, they linked the essence of their lives - much like Zathrian and the Lady of the Forest - with an immortal protection. As long as one exists, the other does as well. So, they are not the physical prison necessarily, but a kind of access key to the physical prison.

Maybe. I'm not saying it's perfectly viable that the OGS is literally inside the given Archdemon, although I find it somewhat suspicious that (to my knowledge) Archdemons don't really exhibit so many specific traits of the corresponding OG in a more... literal sense. I mean, it's assumed that this is the case, but how much do we know of what the original OG was like when it was a god in Tevinter, not an Archdemon? I mean to say, Urthemiel was the dragon of beauty, right? So... the corruption just wiped all that out of existence? There is nothing related to beauty about Urthemiel the Archdemon apart from the fact that it is now the antithesis of beauty. So... could it be that the dragon is not the OGS directly, merely a living geas of sorts? How do we even know that a given Archdemon is a particular OGS?

 

...I'm probably just too tired to see the obvious connections and tomorrow I'll be scratching my head about what strange things I think of sometimes.

 

As to the Warden soul colliding with OGS; it makes sense, if they are so alien to one another to be complete opposites, they would cancel each other out. Alternatively, the OGS is only able to inhabit a particular, mindless form of vessel, thus having a body there that already is occupied would be like pouring tea into a full cup, i.e. it all spills over. It might try to revert the process, except the body it just vacated collapsed upon its exit, thus they both die.

 

Yes... sleep will fix my brain. I'm sure.

[Gwyvian]

I'm one of those horrible people who hasn't read the WoT series. I want to! I am just afraid to, honestly. BUT I like where that thought is going! I kind of thought perhaps there is an infection, too, I just didn't know how to explain it. Dragons are really resistant to the blight, I'm sure that would play a part in it. And the music... when its twisted to be sick, it super charges the infection? I like the theory mentioned earlier about the prison, though, and a cancerous infection kind of slowly oozing out. 

And something just occurred to me. What if shape changing was a thing back then? And the Arch Demons aren't just dragons, they are elves who shape shifted in to dragons?

And now for something TOTALLY different, I got bored. Have an arty Solas thing!

Spoiler

Preview: 

 

Nice art! 

 

I wouldn't say anyone is horrible for not reading WoT...   I would say such a person is missing out on a completely epic and awesome story, though. I just love WoT to pieces. And for DA theorycraft it's excellent source material (I'm pretty sure the devs have read it, there are just way too many parallels; that, or their minds are remarkably similar to Robert Jordan's).

 

I pretty much agree with everything; the Blight being what it is, it would make sense that this is some kind of infection. As to dragons, we know it definitely is a thing, putting everything aside, just look at Flemmeth and Morrigan, too, later on.

 

Come to think... that's more evidence for my "the Old Gods are the Elvhen pantheon remade to suit humans" theory... Mythal can transform into a dragon and bestow that power on her followers... and the Old Gods are at least related to dragons in some way, even if we go along this new theory of mine and say they're not literally the given OGS trapped in a dragon, only connected to them somehow.

 

I'm still not excluding the possibility that I'm just following a cloud of fluff in my exhausted ponderings.

[Caddius]

*cough* As someone who is part-Hungarian....  That's just hilarious. Attila... I should say: ATTila even though that pronunciation is completely off. 

 

 

How exactly is it pronounced, then?

Where do you fall on the great 'Who were the Huns, actually?' I figured I might as well ask if there's an actual Magyar in the thread. (I avoid Hungarian, because puns area weakness of mine and I've been really trying to Czech myself before someone slaps me.  ) I've been hearing more about the Sumerian-Hun-Maygar connection lately, which is interesting, but the whole field is well above my pay grade. 

By physical shells, I was more musing that there might be some kind of Fade entity or Void entity that interacts with Thedas through the dragon form, whether it was possessed, created, or what-have-you.

As for Urthemiel, he does have a certain sense of poetry. Sending Tamlen as an assassin after Mahariel was a very dark, poetic ending. The fabulous way he showed off his mighty purple chest to raise morale in the Deep Roads, as well.

Also, to embrace my stereotypes of poets, the fact he's the only Archdemon to die within a year and failed to sack a single proper city is probably evidence he's a poet. 

But I am curious what the Old Gods were like in the Fade, back in the day. I can only imagine Corypheus and Dumat's conversations.

DUMAT: ...

CORYPHEUS: ...

DUMAT: ....

CORYPHEUS: Teach me to be like you, senpai.

[Ilwerin]

"the Old Gods are the Elvhen pantheon remade to suit humans" 

You named it perfectly I was thinking about this some time, mother Giselle made me think in fact - but I have difficulties to determine the pairs... 

But right know I can't get off my head the spectacular similarity in Andraste's and Flemeth's "crown", so I can hardly think about anything else

 

 

How exactly is it pronounced, then? 

Where do you fall on the great 'Who were the Huns, actually?' I figured I might as well ask if there's an actual Magyar in the thread.   (I avoid Hungarian, because puns area weakness of mine and I've been really trying to Czech myself before someone slaps me. 

Vowels should be pronounced shortly, no "Ateela"... rather with emphasis on first "A".

Btw, what was the problem with Czech?  

[NightSymphony]

Just one comic to share

 

Poor Solas

http://crisisv.devia...arget-534062370

[CapricornSun]

Just one comic to share

 

Poor Solas

http://crisisv.devia...arget-534062370

 

'Poor Solas' indeed.

[RawToast]

Geek Remix theorized in her JoH walkthrough that great dragons are high dragons possessed by a spirit, since great dragons are said to have been intelligent with the ability to talk. Given the fact that

Spoiler

hakkon was bound to a high dragon and spoke in his boss battle

, this theory has some pretty solid evidence. And the old gods are said to have spoken to their disciples. So it's not much of a stretch that the old gods are the greatest of great dragons, bound with the souls of powerful spirits, perhaps something on par with the Forbidden Ones or the elven pantheon/forgotten ones.

 

idk where i'm going with this i just felt like i should mention it. 

[madrar]

I disagree. Do you think he would rather sacrifice his friend Mythal, than hated inquisitor (not everyone was his lover)? Besides, maybe I am wrong (as non native english speaker I sometimes understand things differently  - well except Sera - I don't  understand the meaning of more than a half of everything she says ), but I had a feeling, that the Mark is unremovable - death or no.

 

Ah!  You're right- I think it was Abelas the spirit of Justinia who let that slip.  

 

"It is part of you now, and cannot be removed without your death."

 

As for sacrificing Mythal instead of the Assquisitor, I agree that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense from a logical, what-should-Solas-do perspective.  I think his choice was forced by gameplay factors and theme, since it does fit in terms of the larger picture.  Remember Mythal as the Lady of Regret, and her role as Possibility in the choice magic triad? 

 

The inevitable sacrifice when making a choice is potential.  As a slightly ridiculous example, if you decide to have waffles for breakfast, you're sacrificing all the other breakfasts you could have eaten.  Significant choices imply the necessary death of possibility, if you see what I mean, and that is precisely what Mythal represents: possibility.   Potential.  Every time the collective mind of Thedas makes a critical decision about the path it is going to take (what kind of world it's going to be) the Wife figure is murdered/sacrificed to drive that change.  In a Solavellan scenario, unlike an Assquisitor, a friendly Quiz or even a male Lavellan, I think it's possible mark-immortal f!Lavellan could be that sacrifice.  She represents the potential for an alternative future for the People.

 

And if that's true, then -caught in an almost impossible choice between sacrificing Lavellan and Mythal- it seems Solas chooses to save Lavellan.

[Uirebhiril]

Ah!  You're right- I think it was Abelas, not Corypheus,who let that bit slip.  

 

"It is part of you now, and cannot be removed without your death."

 

Wasn't that spirit-Justinia in the Fade who said that?

[madrar]

I know I keep bringing up the Wheel of Time, but so far there have been a LOT of parallels there, so....

 

Upon reading this, I instantly thought this: what if the Archdemons are kind of like the seals on the Dark One's prison? I.e. each time an Archdemon is slain, this prison you mention becomes closer to being opened, where in Thedas it is not necessarily the Dark One who is lurking (although, why not? It would make sense to seal away some great evil) and like the seals, they are "infected" by that evil, i.e. they radiate it until they are broken. The seals are made of Quendilar, which is indestructible by even the One Power (parallel: the Archdemons cannot be slain except by a Grey Warden, who doesn't actually slay it entirely, rather he/she essentially "accepts the soul" into him/herself where it is subsequently destroyed for... lack of compatibility?), yet the seals break anyway for reasons unknown (i.e. there is a force in existence that can destroy it).

 

In other words, what if the Archdemons aren't the corrupted Old Gods literally, but more like a remote connection to them?

 

I'm pretty sure someone's going to come up with a succinct answer as to why this is all wrong, but at any rate, I'd like to know those reasons!   I need to fill in gaps in my lore anyway.

 

We aren't given a lot to build on in game, but the little we do have seems to support the idea that the OGSes of the Pantheon are held within the dragons we know as Archdemons - which is more or less the same concept as dragons being 'possessed' by the spirits of the Gods.  I think these dragon vessels acted as battle forms in the attack/defense of Arlathan, selected for their physical advantages and ability to amplify the Will of the soul within.  The details of the theoretical attack and Fen'Harel's "betrayal" were written up a few pages back, but more to the point, I think they've been intentionally drawing darkspawn to them in the ages since in an attempt to delay the inevitable: darkspawn reaching the buried Dark City where their master Elgar'nan is currently trapped.  Given that, Archdemons do essentially act as seals on the Big Bad's prison.  It also implies that blights aren't so much an purposeful attack on the surface as they are a carefully balanced delay tactic, intended to be drawn out as long as possible without tipping the surface world into unrecoverable chaos.

 

I think we have limited evidence for this in the immortality of Archdemons and the unique ability of Grey Wardens to "permanently" kill them.  A key concept to note here is that the physical world of Thedas has a relationship to the Fade that directly parallels the relationship of a physical body to its soul.  I believe the Fade is quite literally the soul of the Earth, and Mythal is a fragment of that soul.  As souls are her contribution to sentient life, most beings on Thedas are connected to this Fade by default.  Dwarves, of course, are a bit different.  They've lost their connection to their original source- the Fade of the Earth, and are now connected to the emergent Fade of the fetal Stone: an explanation for their gradual evolution toward beings of emotion, individuality, and -potentially- perhaps eventual magic.  

 

Of course, darkspawn are a special case as well.  We know they, like Cole, do not eat- and like him, I believe the explanation is that they are sustained instead by their connection to the Fade of a Maker: the dark soul of Elgar'nan. They, and all blighted things, are connected to this Fade: including tainted Archdemons, and critically, Grey Wardens.  It's the Warden's connection to this alternate Fade that is the source of the nightmares they endure.  The taint connects their soul to both realms, and as the taint progresses, they lose their connection to Earth's fade and become more and more fully creatures of Elgar'nan.   

 

Archdemons do not rise until they are completely blighted- fully connected to Elgar'nan's Fade.  Thus when they die, their OGS returns to this alternate fade, where it can be immediately redirected into the nearest entity with an "open" connection to it, ie: any blighted creature.  Since Wardens have a connection to both Fades, the OGS is drawn in, but -critically- when the Warden dies, his split soul is pulled back into the Fade of the Earth, carrying the Archdemon's merged OGS along with it.   

 

Unfortunately, there seems to be a critical distinction between a soul being redirected from one body to another via the Fade and actually passing through the veil in death.  The latter seems to have a memory-wiping component, notable in other examples of theoretical reincarnation: Andruil's OGS in Sera, June's OGS in Sandal, and -critical to our discussion here- Dirthamen's OGS in Solas.  When Solas tells the Inquisitor that he "learned it in the Fade", I believe he's being entirely truthful.  Dumat's death released Dirthamen's OGS, but at the cost of his memory and personal connection to his past, which he's been slowly recovering via punctuated stretches of Uthenera ever since the first blight.  (Note that Mythal's transfer from daughter to daughter circumvents this wiping, as does the Dark Ritual- suggesting that Ghilan'nain's OGS may be fully aware and intact within Kieran.)

 

Back with more thoughts on Mythal and what's going on with her OGS when I get kicked off the Witcher again.  @w@ 

 

^{_{I need to buy another PS4- this timesharing thing is ridiculous}}

[RawToast]

Geek Remix theorized in her JoH walkthrough that great dragons are high dragons possessed by a spirit, since great dragons are said to have been intelligent with the ability to talk. Given the fact that

Spoiler

hakkon was bound to a high dragon and spoke in his boss battle

, this theory has some pretty solid evidence. And the old gods are said to have spoken to their disciples. So it's not much of a stretch that the old gods are the greatest of great dragons, bound with the souls of powerful spirits, perhaps something on par with the Forbidden Ones or the elven pantheon/forgotten ones.

 

idk where i'm going with this i just felt like i should mention it. 

 

Just adding to this, in the comics Yvanna says that the remaining great dragons are all asleep, except for the Queen of dragons who was woken by Maric's blood. So, kinda like archdemons. And coming from Flemeth's daughter too.

[nikki-tikki]

Played briefly on my mage tonight and mostly did lots of talking to people in Haven and practical things. I find myself a little tempted away from another Solas romance by Sera....though both have their own measures of difficulty. But I've been playing my mage with a more middle option sass and Sera is even cuter....but ugh her railing against 'elfy' things and making a Lavellan work harder to win her over and deny parts of herself or change....

 

If only I made my original human mage concept. I just didn't want to get race gated out of Solas, because you all understand....

 

Just do it. You might find other romances refreshing. I'm finding myself in a little bit of a rut about Dorian atm...

[Caddius]

Just adding to this, in the comics Yvanna says that the remaining great dragons are all asleep, except for the Queen of dragons who was woken by Maric's blood. So, kinda like archdemons. And coming from Flemeth's daughter too.

I haven't read the comics, just read summaries.

So the dragon blood that Flemeth had Calenhad drink to become a Reaver, it was Great Dragon blood, right? It almost feels like there's a mirrored image of the Archdemon-Grey Warden relationship in the Great-Dragon Reaver. One has the capability to destroy, the other to resuscitate.

I wonder what threat made Flemeth hide the Great Dragons away? Was it a project back when she was just Mythal? Or was it Flemeth hiding them from those crazy dragon-hunting Pentaghasts?

I could see the Titans, the Creators, the Forgotten Ones, and other nebulous foes managing to overthrow the dragons as rulers of the skies. The murals of dragons fighting alongside elves suggests that the dragons were either allies or enslaved. (The ritual to bind a dragon in playthroughs where the Inquisitor drinks from the Well suggests that they were bound. Or, possibly, just shapeshifted followers of the Creators, or even the Creators themselves.)

[myahele]

I have a theory that the Ancient Dragons are the survivors of when Dragons ruled the world, according to Yavana.

 

The Drake's Fall codex entry says: "Legends speak of a place where dragons go to die. In the far south, in the lands of the barbarian tribes, it is said that a dragon at the end of her days lies down and allows the bitter cold to take her.

It is not just a legend! I have seen Drake's Fall with my own eyes, the ancient bones of these grand beasts piled atop one another. I felt the power that suffused this place and knew the Imperium would claim it.

We built a city on the bones. We delved deep into the earth, collecting what remained of the primordial dragons who were so like our Old Gods."

 

There's also the fact that Ancient Dragons, while similar, are different from High Dragons. It was suggested in another thread that the creatures of Thedas might be experiencing a sort of "De-evolution" of sorts.

 

For one thing, the Sarcophgi in ancient Tevinter ruins are BIG, much larger than regular humans. It was even said that perhaps Corypheus (and Architects) tall frame was not due to mutation, but that's how tall they naturally were. And to a lesser extent explains why archways/doorways were pretty tall in ancient buildings. Lastly, Abelas and Solas' frame is much larger than modern elves

[Caddius]

Hmm. I'd forgotten all about Drake's Fall. That does suggest that the Old Gods were different from regular dragons in a similar way to the Great Dragons. So, Old Gods are special Great Dragons rather than special dragons.

Another question: Why is there suddenly an Eluvian in Drake's Fall during Witch Hunt? Morrigan didn't drag it there, did she? Was it under a cloaking spell? Were they just re-using a cool looking area?

[RawToast]

I haven't read the comics, just read summaries.

So the dragon blood that Flemeth had Calenhad drink to become a Reaver, it was Great Dragon blood, right? It almost feels like there's a mirrored image of the Archdemon-Grey Warden relationship in the Great-Dragon Reaver. One has the capability to destroy, the other to resuscitate.

I wonder what threat made Flemeth hide the Great Dragons away? Was it a project back when she was just Mythal? Or was it Flemeth hiding them from those crazy dragon-hunting Pentaghasts?

I could see the Titans, the Creators, the Forgotten Ones, and other nebulous foes managing to overthrow the dragons as rulers of the skies. The murals of dragons fighting alongside elves suggests that the dragons were either allies or enslaved. (The ritual to bind a dragon in playthroughs where the Inquisitor drinks from the Well suggests that they were bound. Or, possibly, just shapeshifted followers of the Creators, or even the Creators themselves.)

 

It was to protect them from the humans, yes. There was a place built specifically for that purpose, The Silent Grove, after the imperium fell. Makes me feel bad for killing them in inquisition. Yvanna was the reason the dragons came back, she woke them. However, she was unable to wake the great dragons. That's why she needed Alistair.

 

She says that "the blood of the dragons is the blood of the world." Reminds me of lyrium.

 

I think the dragons were allies, considering the way Yvanna speaks about them. And Flemeth seems to share her opinion. I think the ancient elves at least respected them, or their power, though i imagine they had ways to prevent them from eating everyone alive. They certainly didn't make sport of killing them, thats for sure. And considering the fact that dragons are a form reserved for the gods, the might have been some kind of law prohibiting hunting them, like a lot of cultures do in our world.

 

It's pretty likely they were subservient to the creators in one way or another, be it outright slavery or a partnership of sorts like mabari and halla. 

[Caddius]

And the presumable Titan that the Tevinter architect (er, not the Architect, the guy that made the giant statues in the Western Approach and elsewhere) met wants to find the 'blood of the world' so he doesn't die of (I'm guessing) starvation, and the guy thinks he's talking about lyrium.

So the Arlathani elves and Creators, plus dragons.

And Titans and presumably dwarves.

And the 'Pillars of the Earth' and their 'mindless' servants, possibly proto-darkspawn, possibly the Old Gods, possibly the Titans and proto-dwarves. *strokes beard*

[RawToast]

Hmm. I'd forgotten all about Drake's Fall. That does suggest that the Old Gods were different from regular dragons in a similar way to the Great Dragons. So, Old Gods are special Great Dragons rather than special dragons.

Another question: Why is there suddenly an Eluvian in Drake's Fall during Witch Hunt? Morrigan didn't drag it there, did she? Was it under a cloaking spell? Were they just re-using a cool looking area?

 

They were probably just re-using the area. But I imagine Morrigan either brought the eluvian there or rebuilt it there, since it's the same Eluvian from the Dalish origin and probably to make use of the power in the area.

 

Someone on the forums said that after Morrigan used it once it stopped working, so she had to get a new one. Probably the one she was working on in the last court, that appears in DAI. I think that's because of Merril, since she was also using shards from the same Eluvian Morrigan first used. Irrelevant, but still thought i'd mention it.