153433 réponses à ce sujet

[Heidirs]

My issue isn't with the use of the words (since it's clearly a Dalish thing - Ellana also uses it with her Keeper, after all) but with the context.  Solas often thinks of Ellana as 'his da'len' while thinking about her in a romantic context.  It's especially irksom as Solas only ever uses da'len once in the game with Lavellan, as a reponse to her use of 'ha'hren'.  All the other times he's used it have been when he's insulting someone (mostly Mhiris).  In the game Solas uses 'lethallan' with a Lavellan he's friendly with.

 

Bria and Felassan are deliberatly mimicing the Dalish use of ha'hren and da'len.  It's also not romantic (while Weekes hasn't confirmed Bria's sexuality she is in a relationship for most of the book and an 'it's complicated' for the rest).

 

I can agree with all of that.

[Cee]

I would leave a message but I'm worried I'd come off as rude.

 

Especially if something like that dynamic is something a writer is personally into. Like, it's a possibility. She uses it in her other Solavellan stuff, at least the one I remember seeing) but not sure if that's her interpretation or just a dynamic she likes to use.

[Niamaduir]

I was actually reading this on tumblr on my way to work today and found it quite interesting: http://therealdragon...olas-and-mirhis. (not sure if this has been posted before?.. sorry,  if it was). All my playthroughs were as Dalish Elf so I never picked up on this.

 

I always get the "Ma harel, da'len" line and all I have played so far is a dalish, archer and mage. Also, I always talk to Mihris about why she's not with her clan which is around were I get that line from Solas, I think.

[Illyria]

Especially if something like that dynamic is something a writer is personally into. Like, it's a possibility. She uses it in her other Solavellan stuff, at least the one I remember seeing) but not sure if that's her interpretation or just a dynamic she likes to use.

 

Yeah, that's why I'm torn.  It's not something I think works, but it may be what she's into.

[Heidirs]

It could be something she's into but has never had anyone mention to her why it could be seen as problematic. I do think there are polite ways of asking. Such as mentioning why you find it bothersome but also expressing interest in why she chooses to use it so that you appear more open minded and inquisitive about her views rather just expressing yours or coming across as suggesting she's wrong. Though, that does take some delicacy, and you never can know how she'll react. Most people are pretty kind if you take pains to be polite. Other people will blow up at you no matter what, but at least you can know you approached the subject in the best way possible.

[DustyTulip]

Yeah, that's why I'm torn.  It's not something I think works, but it may be what she's into.

 

 

It could be something she's into but has never had anyone mention to her why it could be seen as problematic. I do think there are polite ways of asking. Such as mentioning why you find it bothersome but also expressing interest in why she chooses to use it so that you appear more open minded and inquisitive about her views rather just expressing yours or coming across as suggesting she's wrong. Though, that does take some delicacy, and you never can know how she'll react. Most people are pretty kind if you take pains to be polite. Other people will blow up at you no matter what, but at least you can know you approached the subject in the best way possible.

 

The question could be as simple as asking why she has chosen 'da'len' instead of 'lethallan'. I am willing to volunteer to ask the question and see how this goes?..

 

From reading her notes, it does seem that a lot of Solas / Ellana conversations are role played with her boyfriend first and then she writes them in, so that could be part of this.

Modifié par DustyTulip, 01 juin 2015 - 04:12 .

[Niamaduir]

The thing about fic is that it's your interpretation of the game and the dynamics. While most here seem to shy away from the da'len/hahren dynamic because of Solas' use of it in game, I would also say that the fic in question is a AU with a modern setting and the use of those words seem to begin as a joke, which gets folded into the text banter. It also helps to establish that there is an age difference between the characters without them explicitly talking about how old they are. I think the added challenge here, with the fic in question, is that it is a modern setting. You are taking the bones of the game and re-imagining them in setting that is equivalent to our own. So there will be differences, languages change, almost dead languages may change even more as the culture tries to reclaim its history. The story is not a direct parallel to the one in game, which does allow the author more freedom. Her Solas, though he shares much of the same personality, is not the game's Solas. He does not seem to have the same "mistake" driving him, and through he uses the name Fen'Harel as a nom de plume, I got no indication that he is Fen'Harel in the same way he is in game. 

[Cee]

It's not really a thing limited to Message Sent, which was just an example. I've seen others utilize it.

 

 

Whoever it was that kept mentioning Bastille songs as hellspiral songs, I'm listening to Bad Blood (the album, not the Taylor Swift song) and I get it.

[Heidirs]

I assume people just see da'len as an endearment, not with the meanings of "child" or "student" attached to it. I would say from a cultural context, that would be an incorrect use of the word. But from a creative standpoint... *shrug*

[MayriyaNoori]

I admit, I also thought Lavellan was in her early 20s. It caught me by surprise when it turned out she's actually 27.

 

 

EDIT: I didn't realize I was top of the page. Have a beautiful Solas screenshot. (I really love captaincaranis' Solas screenshots! )

 

SOURCE

 

I'm pretty sure captaincaranis is the reason I have a Tumblr account. Such amazing pictures.

[Garnet]

Ooh.. someone made a no hat mod for Solas at Halamshiral. Yay! Sexy bald egg! (sorry console players )

[MayriyaNoori]

Ooh.. someone made a no hat mod for Solas at Halamshiral. Yay! Sexy bald egg! (sorry console players )

I just started my third playthrough today and I have shamelessly made another Lavellan who will romance Solas!
You have just made my day. My thanks.

*squee*

[RoraM]

I felt so silly when I found out that it was simply the technical issue of clipping, rather than an aesthetic choice on Solas' part to wear some kind of traditional eleven facial adornment for the Halam'shiral ball.

[Cee]

I wish mods were compatible with those of us who can't run the game with Ultra meshes.

[Garnet]

I wish mods were compatible with those of us who can't run the game with Ultra meshes.

Yeah..I haven't actually added any mods to my game yet so I'm not sure if it will work for me. Still, I love looking at mods. :3 I'm on my 3.1 playthrough because of my ps4 profile bugging out.

 

And the clipping issue is silly. It looks like a very painful piercing.

 

This has probably been posted, but it's really pretty. I love all of you amazing artists !

http://ritriland.tum...st/118954136456

[Cee]

I felt so silly when I found out that it was simply the technical issue of clipping, rather than an aesthetic choice on Solas' part to wear some kind of traditional eleven facial adornment for the Halam'shiral ball.

 

It looks so painful. Someone referred to it as "face shrapnel" once and that made me laugh because it fits perfectly.

 

Though even though it looks goofy as hell,  I do love the implications of what he's wearing. It's a nice touch (and very Solas).

 

http://geeky-jez.tum...he-orlesians-at

[Garnet]

It looks so painful. Someone referred to it as "face shrapnel" once and that made me laugh because it fits perfectly.

 

Though even though it looks goofy as hell,  I do love the implications of what he's wearing. It's a nice touch (and very Solas).

 

http://geeky-jez.tum...he-orlesians-at

 

hehe. I read that before. I love Solas' secretive snarkyness. But the face shrapnel. Ouch! And his bald head, the one thing that made me iffy of him at first, is really quite attractive to me now. :/

[RoraM]

The baldness never bothered me. Have you touched a freshly shaved head? It's so soft. I like to imagine Solas assiduously shaves his head (although perhaps he doesn't need to shave every day, being elvhen). It speaks to discipline and care.

[Illyria]

The thing about fic is that it's your interpretation of the game and the dynamics. While most here seem to shy away from the da'len/hahren dynamic because of Solas' use of it in game, I would also say that the fic in question is a AU with a modern setting and the use of those words seem to begin as a joke, which gets folded into the text banter. It also helps to establish that there is an age difference between the characters without them explicitly talking about how old they are. I think the added challenge here, with the fic in question, is that it is a modern setting. You are taking the bones of the game and re-imagining them in setting that is equivalent to our own. So there will be differences, languages change, almost dead languages may change even more as the culture tries to reclaim its history. The story is not a direct parallel to the one in game, which does allow the author more freedom. Her Solas, though he shares much of the same personality, is not the game's Solas. He does not seem to have the same "mistake" driving him, and through he uses the name Fen'Harel as a nom de plume, I got no indication that he is Fen'Harel in the same way he is in game. 

 

I get what you're saying, but I think there's a fine line in fanfiction between 'creative freedom' and 'being out of character'. Using 'da'len' in that context is out of character for Solas as we know him in game, while 'lethallan' isn't.

 

I assume people just see da'len as an endearment, not with the meanings of "child" or "student" attached to it. I would say from a cultural context, that would be an incorrect use of the word. But from a creative standpoint... *shrug*

 

^^^^

 

Ooh.. someone made a no hat mod for Solas at Halamshiral. Yay! Sexy bald egg! (sorry console players )

 

That is going to look so great with the Dalish Halamshiral outfits everyone is wearing!

[Cee]

I've never quite been 'into' baldness, but I know that I tend to fall for personalities and then the physical things kind of fall more into place on the attractiveness scale and that definitely happened with Solas as well. Though a lot of his original promo art did him absolutely no justice.

 

As a funny aside, I also never tend to be interested in older men and Solas is definitely 'older' (surprise!).

[Illyria]

I've never quite been 'into' baldness, but I know that I tend to fall for personalities and then the physical things kind of fall more into place on the attractiveness scale and that definitely happened with Solas as well. Though a lot of his original promo art did him absolutely no justice.

 

As a funny aside, I also never tend to be interested in older men and Solas is definitely 'older' (surprise!).

 

Liara's older, too.

[Cee]

Liara's older, too.

 

Hehe, yes, but that one is something she tells you directly.

 

I seem to like older women and men closer to my age/slightly younger, with exceptions. I think the only other person in Mass Effect I might conceivably romance if it were possible would be Samara. I know you can kiss and share some lines but I mean full.

 

I guess I like wisdom and someone with a lot of stories to tell.

[RoraM]

I get what you're saying, but I think there's a fine line in fanfiction between 'creative freedom' and 'being out of character'. Using 'da'len' in that context is out of character for Solas as we know him in game, while 'lethallan' isn't.

 

  

I adore "Message Sent", but I, too,  find Solas' continued use of "da'len" jarring, more so than Ellana's playful use of "hah'ren".  I think his initial use in-game of "da'len" was the equivalent of reciprocating the extended olive branch by acknowledging the existence of their shared kinship and the respect Lavellan was clearly offering.  His hesitation in using the endearment, at least, to me, demonstrates he views her as anything but a child.  Then again, I have to remind myself that this is Sheila's version of Solas, not my own.  Perhaps her Solas does view Ellana as a child and always will.  It is an alternate universe, after all.  And if Ellana finds his hands "vulgar" (chapter 11:  Shayna Street) and thinks that an attractive quality, who am I to argue?

[Heidirs]

Just finished The Masked Empire. WHAT ARE THE THEORIES ON WHAT HAPPENED TO FELASSAN?!?! OMG!

 

I like Gaspard a lot more than I did in the game. But I still wouldn't let him touch the throne with his expansionism ideals.

 

I realize that I dislike and respect Celene the way I dislike and respect and Vivienne. They both play the game, and they are good at, but they are only out for themselves and have done some terrible things. I feel more affirmed in my decision to let Celene die in game.

 

I was worried reading the book would make me want to reconcile Celene and Briala in game. I'm glad I still have no desire to do that.

 

I actually have a little more hope for Briala, that she isn't going to turn out like Celene and end up putting herself above her cause. We'll see if that holds true.

[freelovefreeway]

Endearments, or arguably words in general, only mean what they mean to the people they're shared between. To lots of us (and maybe Solas in game) the literal translation of da'len gets in the way. To the characters in Message Sent it doesn't, so I think all we can do is respect what it means to them.

 

My husband and I occasionally call each other "baby." We aren't infantilizing each other or trying to reclaim power from the last time the other person said "baby." It's just a stupid word. I use the same word to call my babies "babies" in the literal, "You are my baby (and will always be my baby so deal with it)," kind of way. And I've called my babies "baby" in a endearment kind of way. It's the same word. I use it for vastly different relationships implying vastly different things, but it all works because everyone knows what it means in any given circumstance.

 

As long as everyone understands and agrees on what the word stands for, we're all good. If one side brings in extra connotations, then it's not good. I call my kids "boogers" and they get mad at me. It means the same thing as any other endearment to me, but they can't get past the other meanings (so I switch to Bouguereau and they accept it). 

 

As long as neither Solas nor Ellana consider it to literally mean child, then everything is fine. Maybe to them it is just a "respected elder" and "respected person younger than me." Maybe it started as the literal meaning used as a joke and that became a meaningless name that is now more name than word.

 

It gets more complicated with the idea that in-game Solas might have a problem with it so it might come off as out-of-character, but, as Niamaduir pointed out, they aren't the same Solas. Message Sent is very AU.

 

There's also the problem that some fanfics use the word and do intentionally mean all the things that make it creepy, but I don't think anyone thinks that's the case with Message Sent.

 

So, for me, if neither of the characters have a problem with it, then I'm not going to continue caring that the author is continuing to have them use it.