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Solas Thread - NOW OFFICIALLY MOVED to Cyonan's BSN (link in OP)


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#104826
BoscoBread

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I'm not really sure the writer's intent there, if he was actually meant to come off slightly prejudice, but a lot of the time I got the impression he was trying to single the Inquisitor out. Especially with the Dalish in a romance, right up to the point of offering to remove the vallaslin, which is deliberately setting them apart from their identity as Dalish. He keeps alluding to the fact that he thinks the IQ is different or unique (if you don't go out of your way to earn his disapproval, that is).

I think part of it is that he sees individuals first and distrusts groups with power. That might be mistaken for bigotry. But maybe he wants the IQ to see themselves that way, so that they aren't careless with their power? Remember how he says an individual can walk away from power but a group never can.

Or it might be that, like Javik, he is a relic of the past and is the product of an ancient empire. He has wisdom that has been forgotten. But as open minded as he is, he still has a certian perspective from another era. I think that if we could go back in time IRL to meet some of the philosophers and political figures who paved the way for ideas about freedom, we would find a lot of problematic things about them by today's standards. Probably with every last one of them.

He's an exceptionalist - like you say, he values the individual above the group.  Which is...ok, but when you painting the rest of the group with a broad brush for good or bad it's just not ok.  It's a character flaw.  All of the companions have them.  Again, my earlier point stands, are you ok with him saying these things?  I am not generally, but you see through interactions he is learning and changing and growing.   Which was why I could stomach his more **** comments.  I think this was intentional. He's from another time and his opinions are colored by a lot of different things we don't know.  So it makes them somewhat understandable, but you don't have to tolerate them 100% of the time.  Honestly, my Lavellan, would have said something to him.  She doesn't know what he is.  To her he is just a hobo elf.  But she respected him enough and trusted the relationship enough to know that she could come to him and speak to him honestly about this.  Frankly, it's sort of sad you couldn't because it really could have been a powerful moment in the relationship with him.  Even as a friend.  It is likely, at the end, he will see he's wrong about this time.  That's probably going to be his big...THING.  You already start to see the wheels moving in his head when he's talking to Varric.

 

 

Regarding the bolded: This is just false.  Truly.  As far back as the Romans there were people in power that were anti-slavery.  There are dozens of examples in the American Revolution -- figures that were highly influential in the bid for freedom that likely would be considered incredibly liberal in today's society - and likely ignored by the right wing because of their stance on social issues.   Yes, there are philosophers and leaders who were influential for "freedom", that were also garbage people by today's standards, but it's highly likely a lot of their peers thought they were as well. Sorry, I just need this thing to die. It's used as such a hand-wavey excuse for real-life politics as a free pass to be a total *******.  As I said it's actually completely historically inaccurrate.  Like children getting married in the "middle ages" or rape being "common" (which is what the GoT writers used as an excuse for this last terrible season).  Spoiler: It wasn't ok then and it's not ok now. [not saying you're an *******, i just don't think it's a good lens at which to view Solas and excuse some of his character flaws.  he has them, celebrate that he's well written and complicated.  it's ok to be ok with him. i am.  i am huge samson fan and dude is a **** up. so...you know.]


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#104827
Meer

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Or it might be that, like Javik, he is a relic of the past and is the product of an ancient empire. He has wisdom that has been forgotten. But as open minded as he is, he still has a certian perspective from another era. I think that if we could go back in time IRL to meet some of the philosophers and political figures who paved the way for ideas about freedom, we would find a lot of problematic things about them by today's standards. Probably with every last one of them.

 

You'd be surprised. Many more were remarkably progressive, decent human beings. This idea that every historical figure must have been...at the very least, "problematic," never sat right with me. Many of the ideals we revere today as forward thinking and modern individuals were penned and aspired to hundreds of years ago. We still haven't gotten it right, either. Likely never will. Though the social mores of any given era and the mindset of the society in which a person might have lived ought always be considered when, well, considering a historical figure and their circumstances, what you mention here holds true for modern leaders and philosophers as well. No person in this world is sterling. Failings are to be expected no matter how far we advance. Even the most conscientious person stumbles into the problematic. This is because, as Kissiebear mentioned above, the reality of anything complicated (and people are complicated) is that it will never be black and white, opened and easily closed.

 

Solas is just another example of a flawed yet powerful individual whose intelligence, drive, and circumstances continually places him in a position where he may influence his people, outdated perspective or no.


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#104828
Sah291

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Regarding the bolded: This is just false. Truly. As far back as the Romans there were people in power that were anti-slavery. There are dozens of examples in the American Revolution -- figures that were highly influential in the bid for freedom that likely would be considered incredibly liberal in today's society - and likely ignored by the right wing because of their stance on social issues.

That's what I mean though, whether they might be considered too this or too that to whomever. Point is, you don't have to accept all the bad along with the good, or throw out everything with the bath water. It's more nuanced than that, and it can be misleading to take things out of the historical context in which they were meant and judge them by modern standards. History can be lost or misinterpreted this way.

I'm not excusing flaws, just pointing out everyone has them.

I don't follow GoT, so I will take your word for it.

#104829
Sah291

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You'd be surprised. Many more were remarkably progressive, decent human beings. This idea that every historical figure must have been...at the very least, "problematic," never sat right with me. Many of the ideals we revere today as forward thinking and modern individuals were penned and aspired to hundreds of years ago. We still haven't gotten it right, either. Likely never will. Though the social mores of any given era and the mindset of the society in which a person might have lived ought always be considered when, well, considering a historical figure and their circumstances, what you mention here holds true for modern leaders and philosophers as well. No person in this world is sterling. Failings are to be expected no matter how far we advance. Even the most conscientious person stumbles into the problematic. This is because, as Kissiebear mentioned above, the reality of anything complicated (and people are complicated) is that it will never be black and white, opened and easily closed.
 
Solas is just another example of a flawed yet powerful individual whose intelligence, drive, and circumstances continually places him in a position where he may influence his people, outdated perspective or no.


It depend who the "we" is. What you might find non problematic might be considered so to someone else, and vise versa, and attitudes change, even in modern times. Some figures we hold up today might be villified tomorrow, or vise versa. So I agree, it's not black and white.

I thought that was the point about Fen'Harel possibly being misunderstood, and with how much Morrigan got wrong. Or the Dalish forgetting what the vallaslin originally meant. Not that you can balme them for getting it wrong. They tried. But history isn't back and white, and that was all I meant.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, that was not my intent.

#104830
BoscoBread

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It depend who the "we" is. What you might find non problematic might be considered so to someone else, and vise versa, and attitudes change, even in modern times. Some figures we hold up today might be villified tomorrow, or vise versa. So I agree, it's not black and white.

I thought that was the point about Fen'Harel possibly being misunderstood, and with how much Morrigan got wrong. Or the Dalish forgetting what the vallaslin originally meant. Not that you can balme them for getting it wrong. They tried. But history isn't back and white, and that was all I meant.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, that was not my intent.

I'm not offended and I doubt Meer is. It's just a debate. No need to apologize :)  They happen from time to time here...with less frequency now than a few months ago but it still happens. Likely will pick up when we get the DLC/Expanision thing and we know the end.


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#104831
Sah291

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I'm not offended and I doubt Meer is. It's just a debate. No need to apologize :)  They happen from time to time here...with less frequency now than a few months ago but it still happens. Likely will pick up when we get the DLC/Expanision thing and we know the end.


Oh good I'm glad. :)

I did notice the thread has slowed down a bit, but I imagine it will be moving crazy fast again when the next DLC comes out.

#104832
NightSymphony

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Art break

 

Grim and Fantastic

http://whatitmeansto...efits-541791687

 

In Hushed Whispers Part 13

http://krissymadcat....rt-13-541674884

 

Solas Airbrush

http://yaralia.devia...las-2-541769345

 

Shiny Head

http://yaralia.devia...las-2-541769345


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#104833
Cee

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I just wish they would make some kind of DLC announcement. Even if it's not dated just yet, just spill something already.

 

Even though we'll all likely be waiting much longer for the other resolution we want.

 

tumblr_mor77c6lbc1squ2xdo2_500_thumb.gif


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#104834
PorcelynDoll

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I'm not too sure if Leliana will become Divine in this scenario.  You may have to avoid recruiting Vivienne.  As for Solas you should be able to make up approval through the artefacts, saving Wisdom, exiling the Wardens and going for Celene/Briana.

Why would someone kill his friend :(

My elf is a Templar but I am playing her as resonable and open minded.She just wants to help and protect people like Ser Barris.

I worked out the numbers from the divine elcetion wiki and I only get Cass/Viv points for chooseing the free allys and declaring for faith. I also never allow Celene to live, I just haven't liked her since Return to Ostagar came out.  I like Gaspard and Briala which the wiki says nets +5 Leiliana. Celene alive only gives me +1 if I spare Gaspard plus Celene/Briala gives ponts to Viv.

Thanks for all the help. I'll let you know if it was successful.



#104835
Sable Rhapsody

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I just wish they would make some kind of DLC announcement. Even if it's not dated just yet, just spill something already.

 

Seriously.  The longer we go without Dragon Age, the more tempted I am to give in to my inner 6 year old and blow a bunch of money on Disney Infinity :D


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#104836
NightSymphony

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All this talk of Mass Effect in here lately has made me want to play ME3 again..so I started a new game.  I really need to remember to bring Javik with me to the Asari temple. Every single time I play, I forget.

 

Also..kind of random..the Lil' Bub plushie that I ordered came today, so I took this picture.

 

http://img.photobuck...zpsmsxbwibn.jpg

 

Solas Approves!!! :lol:


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#104837
laurelinvanyar

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He's an exceptionalist - like you say, he values the individual above the group.  Which is...ok, but when you painting the rest of the group with a broad brush for good or bad it's just not ok.  It's a character flaw.  All of the companions have them.  Again, my earlier point stands, are you ok with him saying these things?  I am not generally, but you see through interactions he is learning and changing and growing.   Which was why I could stomach his more **** comments.  I think this was intentional. He's from another time and his opinions are colored by a lot of different things we don't know.  So it makes them somewhat understandable, but you don't have to tolerate them 100% of the time.  Honestly, my Lavellan, would have said something to him.  She doesn't know what he is.  To her he is just a hobo elf.  But she respected him enough and trusted the relationship enough to know that she could come to him and speak to him honestly about this.  Frankly, it's sort of sad you couldn't because it really could have been a powerful moment in the relationship with him.  Even as a friend.  It is likely, at the end, he will see he's wrong about this time.  That's probably going to be his big...THING.  You already start to see the wheels moving in his head when he's talking to Varric.

^This. 

 

A huuuge part of Solas' hangups is his need to dissociate himself from modern Thedas, and therefore the guilt of his mistakes. The Dalish still worship the very "Gods" he tried to free them from, and won't listen to him (unsurprising, since he's only one hobo apostate vs almost 1000 years of tradition)? Wrong. Bad. Unacceptable. And easy to write off, since the whole entire political landscape of Dragon Age is, in his mind, an unintended consequence. If you gain his respect, it's always as an individual, regardless of race. He's no more forgiving to a Dalish inquisitor than he is to a dwarf inquisitor. A big part of his character growth involves him letting go of some of his preconceptions, and taking the time to learn about and appreciate this world instead of continually comparing it to what the world should be. You can see this in his banter with Varric about Orzammar. Solas has some idea of what the dwarves were, and is continually confused by the dwarves' lack of initiative in restoring that. 

 

I hope he can come to accept the situation as it is, or at least work towards his better future without needing to "Press the Reset Button" aka unleash who knows what kind of shenanigans with the Pantheon/Veil/Old Gods/whatever wackadoodle plan he's got. I kind of doubt it though. Deep thought followed by self-realization makes a rather boring plotline. Not a single dragon in there. 


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#104838
NightSymphony

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New comic by lilumsnow. It's not Solas, but it made me giggle. :D

http://liliumsnow.de...rdens-541860416


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#104839
Cee

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New comic by lilumsnow. It's not Solas, but it made me giggle. :D

http://liliumsnow.de...rdens-541860416

 

Ah, the innocent and cute Alistair days.

 

Oh, Solas, why do you have to be the definition of "it's complicated"? :P


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#104840
FemShem

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I just wondered if anyone else thought his character was a little inconsistent when you get to Skyhold.  At Haven he's speaking ancient Elvan, seems to be pro-elf, and gets on to Sera who thinks she might get something from the rhythm of the words.

Then after Halam your Inq chats him up and if you Dalish when you mention Briala he goes on about...
"Oh, because we're both elves."  and suddenly he doesn't consider the elves his people.

I'm confused.  BioWare doesn't usually leave writing holes.  

Is it inconsistent or did I miss a play by the character.  Since this is a fan thread, I thought someone might know.

I've done a few playthroughs and it always hits me funny.



#104841
Ramification

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Or it might be that, like Javik, he is a relic of the past and is the product of an ancient empire. He has wisdom that has been forgotten. But as open minded as he is, he still has a certian perspective from another era. I think that if we could go back in time IRL to meet some of the philosophers and political figures who paved the way for ideas about freedom, we would find a lot of problematic things about them by today's standards. Probably with every last one of them.

 

  "To arrive at a just estimate of a renowned man’s character one must judge it by the standards of his time, not ours. Judged by the standards of one century, the noblest characters of an earlier one lose much of their lustre; judged by the standards of today, there is probably no illustrious man of four or five centuries ago whose character could meet the test at all points." Mark Twain. 


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#104842
BoscoBread

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I just wondered if anyone else thought his character was a little inconsistent when you get to Skyhold.  At Haven he's speaking ancient Elvan, seems to be pro-elf, and gets on to Sera who thinks she might get something from the rhythm of the words.

Then after Halam your Inq chats him up and if you Dalish when you mention Briala he goes on about...
"Oh, because we're both elves."  and suddenly he doesn't consider the elves his people.

I'm confused.  BioWare doesn't usually leave writing holes.  

Is it inconsistent or did I miss a play by the character.  Since this is a fan thread, I thought someone might know.

I've done a few playthroughs and it always hits me funny.

It's consistent.  As he's Fen'Harel and not really of this time, his "people" are not the people of this time. They would be the ancient elves.  Noone from this time - as he points out - remembers that time correctly at all so he can't even talk about it with people let alone connect with people on simple things like 'Oh hey, remember that store in arlathan with the merchant that would cheat you'. Small stuff that connects people in general.  He's totally alone. Totally apart.  Like...the only thing they have in common is that they look the same but  he wouldn't consider them his people because they are of a totally separate time, culture, and place.  


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#104843
Ramification

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I just wondered if anyone else thought his character was a little inconsistent when you get to Skyhold.  At Haven he's speaking ancient Elvan, seems to be pro-elf, and gets on to Sera who thinks she might get something from the rhythm of the words.

Then after Halam your Inq chats him up and if you Dalish when you mention Briala he goes on about...
"Oh, because we're both elves."  and suddenly he doesn't consider the elves his people.

I'm confused.  BioWare doesn't usually leave writing holes.  

Is it inconsistent or did I miss a play by the character.  Since this is a fan thread, I thought someone might know.

I've done a few playthroughs and it always hits me funny.

 

I don't think this is an over sight from Bioware, I think it's a clue. Solas doesn't seem to feel that he has anything in common with modern elves. They don't appear to be "the people" he's referring to. When you walk about the Emerald Graves he also refers to "his people" but there he's talking about the ancient elves. He never refers to any modern elves as "his people". He sets them apart. 

 

I admit, I was sufficiently quelled after the somewhat patronizing tone Solas took around my pro elf stance post-ball. Those Orlesians snobs called my Quiz a savage so I was pretty fed up right? Like after the party my Quiz went straight to Solas (her bf afterall!) for some commiseration and all she got was cold condescension. I slunk away feeling like a nationalist thug after his high minded rebuke. 


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#104844
CapricornSun

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Some more art stuff.

 

Lavellan riding the Dread Wolf. (No, it's nothing dirty, okay?)

 

Relaxing night.

 

Art of Solas and Lavellan based on a fic called "Keeping Secrets" on AO3.

 

"This must be the first time they’ve seen people like us. I wonder what they think of the giants passing their home."

 

"I enjoy those frilly little cakes."

 

Solas covered in mud. Preparing to wear the Avvar armor maybe? (Slightly NSFW for butts.)

 

Cute chibi DA:I charm set. Look at sleepy Solas. <3

Spoiler

 

 

EDIT: Top Solas.

 

Have some high def Solas. Those freckles. <3

 

Source: http://venusolasfan....eople-what-they

 

tumblr_nndmdaGmQJ1uoh2mvo3_r2_1280.jpg


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#104845
CapricornSun

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Forgot to add these.

 

Body painting. (Slightly NSFW)

 

Solavellan comic based on this artwork. Too bad it's in Korean. :( (Slightly NSFW)


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#104846
Cee

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Oh, that is supposed to be painting. :blink: When I first saw it come up on my dash I thought it was some kind of blood kink play. <_<



#104847
Cee

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EDIT: Top Solas.

 

Have some high def Solas. Those freckles. <3

 

Source: http://venusolasfan....eople-what-they

 

tumblr_nndmdaGmQJ1uoh2mvo3_r2_1280.jpg

 

These freckles, indeed. <3


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#104848
CapricornSun

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Oh, that is supposed to be painting. :blink: When I first saw it come up on my dash I thought it was some kind of blood kink play. <_<

 

When I first saw that artwork, I was also wondering whether it was paint or blood. The artist did tag it as "bodypainting" so I guess that answered the question. 

 

Though I guess the artist could have used a different color for the paint, like blue or something.  :mellow:



#104849
Illyria

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Oh, that is supposed to be painting. :blink: When I first saw it come up on my dash I thought it was some kind of blood kink play. <_<

 

I was too distracted by the kind of weird angle her torso is at to notice the red paint.
 


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#104850
CapricornSun

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More art.

 

May the Dread Wolf never catch your scent. (Slightly NSFW for nudity)

 

*sniff* Oh Solas. :(

Spoiler

 

Solas and Fen'Harel.

 

Solas with (mostly) uneaten cakes.


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