153434 réponses à ce sujet

[RynJ]

 

He ends their romance at the most unexpected moment and we know through banter with Cole that she can't help but to think that it's because something's wrong with her. And why shouldn't she? Solas at first tells her that she matters to him and deserves to know the truth.... only to decide that she doesn't even deserve to know why he left her. That's a pretty bad punch into girl's self-esteem right there.

 

He exacerbates it by telling her later that they have more important things to do and seems to treat her like a child, rather than respected adult he apparently had her for till the breakup - no matter how strong psychologically Lavellan is, I'm surprised we don't hear her heart crack loudly right then and there.

 

Even worse, he promises her that she'll find out what that was all about after fight with Corypheus... only to disappear right after the fight's done. He assures her that what they had was real, true, but like I said - it will just make it harder for her to get over him and smells awfully like playing with her feelings, especially if (as we know through Cole) Solas likely doesn't expect to come back or involve anyone he met along the way into whatever he's supposed to do from now on.

 

IMO Lavellan has the right to feel used and emotionally abused. It'll be even worse if she finds out who he is.

 

Wasn't the point of him leaving her because he decided he couldn't tell her the truth without wrecking his mission? He ended the relationship because he didn't want to lie to her or drag her into his mess. If he'd told her why he broke up with her, that would make the entirety of him breaking up with her pointless, would it not? And hell, Solas can't even lie and say it's because he doesn't want to be with her because that isn't true. For someone who withholds a lot of information, Solas sure doesn't like outright lying. It's pretty funny.

 

He's not treating her like a child, in my eyes. He's trying to be cold so she lets him go quicker. He's trying to break attachment any way he can at that moment. It's not his best moment but Solas' emotional intelligence isn't always on point.

 

As for the point of him promising her, I see this a lot but when did he ever promise her anything? If I recall correctly, he says "all will be clear" or something along those lines. Which possibly may have been the case had the orb not broken. There was never any "I promise, Lavellan, I will sit you down and tell you all about me, my past, and why we can't be together" or anything I perceived as close to it. Heck, I'm of a mind that he was just going to grab that orb and take off. That would have made a few things clear immediately!

 

The last point I can see as making Lavellan upset, but keep in mind that Solas is only "human". This is just as hard, if not harder, for him than it is for her. I highly doubt he said it to purposefully play with her feelings. What would be the point of that and what would that gain him? It's already been confirmed by Weekes himself that Solas is not intending to manipulate his romanced Lavellan and actually does love her. 

 

Not that it isn't valid to be upset at Solas for the romance and one can have their Lavellan feel about it however they wish. These are just some counterpoints to what I disagree with personally in your arguments! I will say that I as a player just don't see the emotionally and mentally abusive elements in this romance that some people say there are (mostly not here, again) and I think "abusive" is being thrown around WAY too willy nilly in this fandom in general considering its very serious connotations and a lot of people's personal experiences. Lavellan entered into nothing she didn't want to. In fact, she was much more the instigator and the one who pushes the romance further while Solas hesitates at every turn. That was the point. Nothing happens without our say-so except Solas breaking up with us at the end, which was within his character's agency to do even if we may not like it. 

[Uirebhiril]

I don't see it as well - I don't necessarily accuse him of malicious intents, in fact I think he did it all because he's either unable or terrified to let her go entirely.

I'm just saying how his actions can be read in-story and why either erasing her memory or even giving her some sort of reason or way that will make it easier for her to move on would be better than how he left it.

 

Really, I think he didn't erase her memories of the relationship because it's not his usual way of dealing with things. It wouldn't have even come to his mind to do so, never minding the logistics of trying to make everyone in Skyhold who knew forget. Seriously, who does that?

 

And if you ask me, erasing her memory to "make it easier" for her to move on is what would be treating her like a child. Is she incapable of being an adult about things? A delicate little girl who can't handle a bump in the road? Will she forever dissolve into tears and crumble at the mere sight of him because she's that fragile and needs to be protected from the world? Nah. My Lavellan could forgive a lot of things that she may learn about Solas later, but if that had to be one of them, she'd never speak to him again.

 

I do hope we - players and Lavellans both - get closure in future DLC if there can't be a reunion or something. I'd be pretty irritated by the story if we don't.

[CapricornSun]

Just one art posted while I was sleeping

 

Stare Down the Dread Wolf

http://ghelphaene.de...-Wolf-543708640

 

 

 

Sunny...if you want to play with doll makers..I have links to many of them on my Deviant Art page :-P I am addicted to making dolls of my Dragon Age characters.

 

Thanks! I tried the mermaid dollmaker and made merpeople dolls of my canon DA pairings of Solas and Lavellan, Alistair and Mahariel, and Anders and Hawke. xD

 

Dolls under the spoiler tag in case anyone's interested.

Spoiler

 

 

 

Oh little conflicted cute!Solas.

 

Also why does Alistair have one eye? I don't think she has drawn him like that before.

What happened to Alistair's eye?

 

I think it's a profile shot hence you only see one eye. (He's facing the doctor. )

[drosophila]

Really, I think he didn't erase her memories of the relationship because it's not his usual way of dealing with things. It wouldn't have even come to his mind to do so, never minding the logistics of trying to make everyone in Skyhold who knew forget. Seriously, who does that?

 

And if you ask me, erasing her memory to "make it easier" for her to move on is what would be treating her like a child. Is she incapable of being an adult about things? A delicate little girl who can't handle a bump in the road? Will she forever dissolve into tears and crumble at the mere sight of him because she's that fragile and needs to be protected from the world? Nah. My Lavellan could forgive a lot of things that she may learn about Solas later, but if that had to be one of them, she'd never speak to him again.

 

I do hope we - players and Lavellans both - get closure in future DLC if there can't be a reunion or something. I'd be pretty irritated by the story if we don't.

 

Yay for strong Lavellans! The breakup was when mine realized she could distance herself from his opinions, get closer with the other races and work harder towards peace and unity. Also, she turned her focus more to the "real" world. It was a very Solas-centric, spirit-centric, fade-centric playthrough before that.

[MayriyaNoori]

Guys, guys. Here's some sad Solavellan music.

 

Spoiler

 

And my two cents.

 

I don't think Solas was being abusive at all and my reasoning is based on Cole. Cole heals pain and it's not the Inquisitor he's reading after the break up, it's Solas. And Solas seems to keep himself quiet for Cole's sake, based on some remarks in their conversation. So, for Cole to pick up on this so clearly.....I mean he is quoting exactly what Solas said.....so Solas is not just sad, Solas is painfully sad about breaking it off with Lavellan. For Solas to be in so much pain at ending it....I just don't equate that with him intentionally being abusive.

 

*goes back to doodling Dragon Age stuff and listening to Solavellan music*

[midnight tea]

Wasn't the point of him leaving her because he decided he couldn't tell her the truth without wrecking his mission? He ended the relationship because he didn't want to lie to her or drag her into his mess. If he'd told her why he broke up with her, that would make the entirety of him breaking up with her pointless, would it not? And hell, Solas can't even lie and say it's because he doesn't want to be with her because that isn't true. For someone who withholds a lot of information, Solas sure doesn't like outright lying. It's pretty funny.

 

He doesn't like lying, true, but he's spent a lot of time learning well how to not lie, but at the same time give a relatively satisfying answer. Plus, he didn't necessarily have to tell her whole truth to help her move on. Why can't he tell here ever something like "Vhenan, I am sorry, but there's something or someone I've dedicated myself to long before I've met you. I can't tell you the details, because it would put you in danger." It would still be better than giving her basically no answer at all.

 

 

 

He's not treating her like a child, in my eyes. He's trying to be cold so she lets him go quicker. He's trying to break attachment any way he can at that moment. It's not his best moment but Solas' emotional intelligence isn't always on point.

 

If he's trying to break attachment then why he leaves only after either admitting that his feelings were real or telling her that he hopes that one day she'll understand why he had to leave?

 

 

 

As for the point of him promising her, I see this a lot but when did he ever promise her anything? If I recall correctly, he says "all will be clear" or something along those lines. Which possibly may have been the case had the orb not broken. There was never any "I promise, Lavellan, I will sit you down and tell you all about me, my past, and why we can't be together" or anything I perceived as close to it. Heck, I'm of a mind that he was just going to grab that orb and take off. That would have made a few things clear immediately!

 

We have an option to ask him "After this is over, will you talk with me?", to which he answers "If we're both alive after the fight, then I promise you, everything will be clear."

 

In any case, he promised her that she'll get some answers, no matter what happens with the orb. In any case - I can't see him "making things clear" by just grabbing the orb and bolting any way better... or at least making Lavellan feel any better, let's be honest here

 

 

 

 

The last point I can see as making Lavellan upset, but keep in mind that Solas is only "human". This is just as hard, if not harder, for him than it is for her. I highly doubt he said it to purposefully play with her feelings. What would be the point of that and what would that gain him? It's already been confirmed by Weekes himself that Solas is not intending to manipulate his romanced Lavellan and actually does love her. 

 

I'm not denying that he loves her - I'm only telling that, from perspective of Lavellan, what he does to her can be read as a pretty bad. To put it shortly, Solas simply didn't play it right and now has to face the possibility of deeply hurting the one person he cared so much about (the horrible irony being that it was something that likely happened to him in the past, and now he condemns his beloved to similar fate and crushing feelings of betrayal - even if unintentionally).

 

 

 

 

Not that it isn't valid to be upset at Solas for the romance and one can have their Lavellan feel about it however they wish. These are just some counterpoints to what I disagree with personally in your arguments! I will say that I as a player just don't see the emotionally and mentally abusive elements in this romance that some people say there are (mostly not here, again) and I think "abusive" is being thrown around WAY too willy nilly in this fandom in general. Lavellan entered into nothing she didn't want to. In fact, she was much more the instigator and the one who pushes the romance further while Solas hesitates at every turn. That was the point. Nothing happens without our say so except Solas breaking up with us at the end, which was within his character's agency to do even if we may not like it. 

 

Lavellan might have been aware that Solas has his reservations, but he hardly protested as much as, say, Blackwall did, plus he eventually decided to commit to relationship. She might have seen his reluctance, but he withholds any information from her about why he's that way, making him pretty much entirely responsible for their broken hearts. He's very much aware of it - in fact, it would be even worse if he blamed her for seducing him or something.

[RynJ]

Yay for strong Lavellans! The breakup was when mine realized she could distance herself from his opinions, get closer with the other races and work harder towards peace and unity. Also, she turned her focus more to the "real" world. It was a very Solas-centric, spirit-centric, fade-centric playthrough before that.

 

My Lavellan looked at certain things differently after hearing Solas' opinion, but being open-minded and looking at things in a new way is always a good thing to do and Solas has more unique knowledge than most. And though he definitely gave her the most to think about, other companions did too! I guess my Lavellan has an edge because I headcanon her as very emotionally secure with high adaptability and emotional and social intelligence as her main character strengths. A counterpoint to Solas in a way, I suppose! My other PCs were kind of wrecks so someone had to be the stable protagonist.    But it made it so she could look past the sadness of the break up and reconcile her feelings easier. Which is why she now worries about Solas and whatever mess he's clearly in rather than be upset with him for breaking it off.

 

I actually find it interesting the different ways people perceive Solas and his romance and how they have their Lavellans react! I don't always approve, but I like reading this stuff anyways! 

[drosophila]

My Lavellan looked at certain things differently after hearing Solas' opinion, but being open-minded and looking at things in a new way is always a good thing to do and Solas has more unique knowledge than most. And though he definitely gave her the most to think about, other companions did too! I guess my Lavellan has an edge because I headcanon her as very emotionally secure with high adaptability and emotional and social intelligence as her main character strengths. A counterpoint to Solas in a way, I suppose! My other PCs were kind of wrecks so someone had to be the stable protagonist.    But it made it so she could look past the sadness of the break up and reconcile her feelings easier. Which is why she now worries about Solas and whatever mess he's clearly in rather than be upset with him for breaking it off.

 

I actually find it interesting the different ways people perceive Solas and his romance and how they have their Lavellans react! I don't always approve, but I like reading this stuff anyways! 

Same here, all player reactions are interesting and I like discussing different interpretations.

[CapricornSun]

Interrupting with art again. (Sorry.)

 

After the last romance scene with Solas. Omg, I feel so bad for both of them....

Spoiler

Source: http://nanananananab...cene-with-solas

 

 

"Would you like to hear a secret, Vhenan?"

Spoiler

Source: http://esuerc.tumblr...a-secret-vhenan

 

 

"You are so beautiful."

Spoiler

Source: http://osatokun.tumb...e-far-away-they

 

 

Solas sketchcard.

Spoiler

Source: http://vanessasketch.../solas-finished

 

 

Solas as a Quarian.

Spoiler

Source: http://50shadesoftha...s-a-quarian-tho

 

 

DAI Hogwarts AU.

Spoiler

Source: http://fooshfoosh.tu...ary-hogwarts-au

 

 

Earlier:

 

 

Solas sitting on Cullen's shoulders to reach something.

Spoiler

Source: http://cheekywithcul...n-just-conjures

 

[drosophila]

Sorry to detract from the discussion, but got inspired to share my selection of Solavellan songs.

 

Here's one that reflects her feelings immediately after the breakup:

Spoiler

 

 

And one about moving on:

Spoiler

 

 

Finally: Creators, what has she done?!

Spoiler

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4KC51M82Xc

[midnight tea]

Really, I think he didn't erase her memories of the relationship because it's not his usual way of dealing with things. It wouldn't have even come to his mind to do so, never minding the logistics of trying to make everyone in Skyhold who knew forget. Seriously, who does that?

 

Considering that Skyhold itself has been forgotten by pretty much everyone until Solas led Inquisition to it I think it's fair to assume that we don't really know the extent of his power to manipulate people's memory.

 

 

 

 

And if you ask me, erasing her memory to "make it easier" for her to move on is what would be treating her like a child. Is she incapable of being an adult about things? A delicate little girl who can't handle a bump in the road? Will she forever dissolve into tears and crumble at the mere sight of him because she's that fragile and needs to be protected from the world? Nah. My Lavellan could forgive a lot of things that she may learn about Solas later, but if that had to be one of them, she'd never speak to him again.

 

Oy, it's not like Lavellan has only her love life to deal with. She has entire Inquisition and basically fate of the world on her head - and if the leaked survey speaks anything that's true, there's even more trouble coming her way. A lot is asked from Inquisitors already and we don't know how much more will be asked of them in the future, though I think we can all suspect that this will likely be stuff that will be likely pretty heavy.

 

What's more - Solas is hardly 'bump on a road'... we all know that he's not just some random apostate hobo after all. So what's going to happen if it's going to be revealed to Inquisitor that he's not just an ancient elf and someone once considered god, but a legendary trickster blamed for downfall of elven nation and also one who is likely at least partially responsible for he situation she and everyone else are in?

Sorry, but as badass and stable as Lavellan can be, I can't see this realistically NOT messing with head and heart of even the strongest person, unless Solas does something to either explain or redeem himself. 

[Uirebhiril]

He doesn't like lying, true, but he's spent a lot of time learning well how to not lie, but at the same time give a relatively satisfying answer. Plus, he didn't necessarily have to tell her whole truth to help her move on. Why can't he tell here ever something like "Vhenan, I am sorry, but there's something or someone I've dedicated myself to long before I've met you. I can't tell you the details, because it would put you in danger." It would still be better than giving her basically no answer at all.

 

 

Just going to say here - while we all wish for closure or a reason when a relationship ends or something happens, it is ultimately up to us to move on, not wait for someone else to help us. I mean, sure, we might get drunk with a friend or something, but the actual effort of sorting through our feelings, working out our pain, and coming to an understanding for ourselves is our responsibility. I want Lavellan to have closure, but she shouldn't just stop living her life if she never sees Solas again.

[midnight tea]

Just going to say here - while we all wish for closure or a reason when a relationship ends or something happens, it is ultimately up to us to move on, not wait for someone else to help us. I mean, sure, we might get drunk with a friend or something, but the actual effort of sorting through our feelings, working out our pain, and coming to an understanding for ourselves is our responsibility. I want Lavellan to have closure, but she shouldn't just stop living her life if she never sees Solas again.

 

Not my point. People might as well get over things pretty smoothly, but that doesn't excuse anyone from making it harder than it should be - especially in situations like this, when it's implied that Solas indeed cares deeply for her, even after the breakup.

[RynJ]

Considering that Skyhold itself has been forgotten by pretty much everyone until Solas led Inquisition to it I think it's fair to assume that we don't really know the extent of his power to manipulate people's memory.

 

 

 

Oy, it's not like Lavellan has only her love life to deal with. She has entire Inquisition and basically fate of the world on her head - and if the leaked survey speaks anything that's true, there's even more trouble coming her way. A lot is asked from Inquisitors already and we don't know how much more will be asked of them in the future, though I think we can all suspect that this will likely be stuff that will be likely pretty heavy.

 

What's more - Solas is hardly 'bump on a road', especially if it's going to be revealed to Inquisitor that he's not just an ancient elf and someone once considered god, but a a legendary trickster blamed for downfall of elven nation and also one who is likely at least partially responsible for he situation she and everyone else are in. Sorry, but as badass and stable as Lavellan can be, I can't see this realistically NOT messing with head and heart of even the strongest person, unless Solas does something to either explain or redeem himself. 

 

She might be upset but don't you think Solas erasing her memory is going entirely too far and crossing an insanely large amount of lines? Why would he do that to her? If he's going to do that, he might as well erase the memories of the entirety of the Inquisition. I really don't think he'd do that. All he takes away from Cole is what Cole dove into his mind in the first place to see after he's gone.

 

That, in fact, I would say would be an absolutely unforgivable and horrible thing for Solas to do to an Inquisitor who romances him. Multiple times the level of anything else "bad" he did during the romance. Messing with someone's mind even when you can't know how they would handle grief or even if you do know is messed up. Lavellan is not entitled to having Solas stay with her or even explain everything about himself to her, but she's certainly entitled to her memories and experiences.

[midnight tea]

She might be upset but don't you think Solas erasing her memory is going entirely too far and crossing an insanely large amount of lines? Why would he do that to her? If he's going to do that, he might as well erase the memories of the entirety of the Inquisition. I really don't think he'd do that. All he takes away from Cole is what Cole dove into his mind in the first place to see after he's gone.

 

That, in fact, I would say would be an absolutely unforgivable and horrible thing for Solas to do to an Inquisitor who romances him. Multiple times the level of anything else "bad" he did during the romance. Messing with someone's mind even when you can't know how they would handle grief or even if you do know is messed up.

 

 

.... How is it better than messing with Lavellan's feelings when you're aware that this relationship is doomed from the start?

 

He might have not be able to resist her and didn't expect for it to end like this... and yet it did - and he does nothing to make it easier for either of them. And I'm not even saying about erasing memory at this point - just handling the situation better than he did.

[drosophila]

Some input from my husband:

 

"What Varric would say is she needs to remember. And so does he."

[andy6915]

Could people NOT tell that breaking up with her hurt him a lot? Like I said, my character managed to not break from it because she could tell it absolutely shattered him to do that. So she thinks he must have had a very good reason, and that he did it quickly and coldly precisely because it was obvious that if he broke up with her in a gentle way then he wouldn't have been able to go through with it at all. He had to put on a metaphorical mask to suppress his own emotions enough to be able to do it, and the coldness ess part of it. It's almost like Morrigan's romance of all things, with how she too forced herself to leave despite knowing how much she would hate doing it.

Part of why she knows this is because of that Damned nightmare segment. His greatest fear is dying alone, so to do something that he knew was likely to result in exactly that... He MUST have had a good reason, for him to break his own heart and possibly accomplish his own greatest fear over it. That is a large part of why she and I could accept it.

[coldwetn0se]

Posting on my phone, so this will be brief.

Why do some believe that Solas is capable of erasing anyone's memories? I read the Cole situation (postCory), as simply Solas telling/showing (in Cole's mind eye), that it would hurt Solas and others for Cole to continue to have this knowledge (which Weekes clarified that Cole knew most of it), so Cole did what Cole is capable of doing: forgetting.

More simply put, this Cole's own doing, at the behest of his friend Solas, to minimize the pain he himself holds, that Cole is burdened with this knowledge. (And certainly doesn't want him or anyone else he cares for to follow him down the rabbit hole....so to speak. )

This is just my interpretation of it.

[Cee]

 He's not treating her like a child, in my eyes. He's trying to be cold so she lets him go quicker. He's trying to break attachment any way he can at that moment. It's not his best moment but Solas' emotional intelligence isn't always on point.

 

This exactly. He returns to calling her Inquisitor (this killed me), he tries to treat her with a certain cold distance. And it hurts him too.

 

The voice acting when you talk to him after the breakup, it is formal and cool, but there's a certain sadness in there.

 

 

 

 

 

[Niamaduir]

 

We have an option to ask him "After this is over, will you talk with me?", to which he answers "If we're both alive after the fight, then I promise you, everything will be clear."

 

In any case, he promised her that she'll get some answers, no matter what happens with the orb. In any case - I can't see him "making things clear" by just grabbing the orb and bolting any way better... or at least making Lavellan feel any better, let's be honest here

 

 

If we break down Solas' reply, you notice that there is no subject indicating who or what (or even how) will be made clear. We are inferring from the context of the dialogue that what will be made clear is why Solas ended the relationship. Also given the phrasing "If we're both alive after the fight, then I promise you, everything will be clear." there is no indication that Solas would tell Lavellan anything at all. If we omit the "then I promise you" the sentence stand as "If we're both alive after the fight everything will be clear". This is a very interesting way to put something. It implies that Lavellan will gain an understanding, yet it does not give a concrete verb for how that understanding is achieved. Also, everything is non-specific collective noun meaning 'all things,' but what is Solas using the word to refer to? If we take in the context of the conversation then for Lavellan, "everything" becomes all the reasons he had to break off the relationship and why he was so hesitant about engaging in it in the first place. But that might not be what Solas means when he says "everything" and the only other dialogue we have to shed some possible light on what he means is the line "You saw more than most."  I don't think he is only referring to the fact that most people see a knife-eared apostate when they look at him. 

 

For me, Solas' phrasing implies that Lavellan will have a "Eureka!" moment or that point where everything falls into place and you "get it," so to speak. Remember Solas approves of you asking questions, it is possible that he feels that he has slipped up enough and/or the Inquisitor had learned enough about Elvhenan to make that intuitive leap.  My personal theory is that had Solas recovered the orb, it would have immediately become apparent who he was and there would be no need for words as the sentence implies. He never promises her answers, only clarity, which is a very Solas thing to do.  

 

 

 edit toppost: I love all of captiancaranis shots

Spoiler

[andy6915]

And enough hints were dropped, at least enough to know he's an ancient elf who isn't who he says he is.

Anyway, he's not gone in a way that you can't get answers. You have the anchor, something that gives you an insane focus when dreaming. It will take time, but she WILL track him down in the fade someday and get answers.

[Solas]

@Spice+Wolf mention ah I love S+W!

 

@drosophila [Wolf Children spoilers]

Spoiler

Lovely story, glad I watched it. Very poignant and also adorable. Obviously sad in places and in others bittersweet but it was good sadfeels rather than just feeling bereft/bulldozed/traumatized, yknow? Lol Thank you for the recc.

[drosophila]

@Spice+Wolf mention ah I love S+W!

 

@drosophila [Wolf Children spoilers]

Spoiler

Lovely story, glad I watched it. Very poignant and also adorable. Obviously sad in places and in others bittersweet but it was good sadfeels rather than just feeling bereft/bulldozed/traumatized, yknow? Lol Thank you for the recc.

Glad you enjoyed it!

[midnight tea]

Could people NOT tell that breaking up with her hurt him a lot? Like I said, my character managed to not break from it because she could tell it absolutely shattered him to do that. So she thinks he must have had a very good reason, and that he did it quickly and coldly precisely because it was obvious that if he broke up with her in a gentle way then he wouldn't have been able to go through with it at all.

Part of why she knows this is because of that Damned nightmare segment. His greatest fear is dying alone, so to do something that he knew was likely to result in exactly that... He MUST have had a good reason, for him to break his own heart and possibly accomplish his own greatest fear over it. That is a large part of why she and I could accept it.

 

The fact that it hurt him might be obvious for Lavellan, but it still doesn't excuse Solas from doing it the way he did. Even if she's perfectly aware that she meant something for him, eventually it apparently wasn't enough to either stop him from leaving or even trusting enough to know much about him. So far, the only thing she knows is that he left and apparently he's convinced that Lavellan can't do anything to help him. He basically decides everything for her, which is really not much different from him just purging her memory.

[drosophila]

And enough hints were dropped, at least enough to know he's an ancient elf who isn't who he says he is.

Anyway, he's not gone in a way that you can't get answers. You have the anchor, something that gives you an insane focus when dreaming. It will take time, but she WILL track him down in the fade someday and get answers.

This. I'm as certain as one could possibly be with the given info that tracking him down would involve the mark and the fade.