153434 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

.....Only that's entirely your headcanon >_>''''

 

Also - I hardly see any sensible, mature Inquisitor behave like that, especially if she has to face the scenario in which Fen'Harel either has done something morally dubious or is about to do something terrible.

 

Except if his locking the gods away wasn't for a good reason, Mythal would have torn him apart. She wouldn't stand for him doing something like that if he was wrong to do it. So either both he and Mythal are evil, or they're both good. And elven lore sounds far too much like scapegoating to actually sound believable, it's about as obvious as scapegoating can get. "Oh he was just mad and jealous of both sides despite the fact that he was well respected by both, so of course he'd lock them away while Mythal just stands by and watches"... That sounds like bull****. You find it so unbelievable that a Dalish might decide that the hate to the Dread Wolf that the Dalish have towards him might be nothing more than a misunderstanding? Besides, he's an underdog thanks to that, and she loves underdogs. Fact is, the 'official' story the Dalish have makes no sense. Never mind that my character was already very dubious about a lot of Dalish lore to start with, especially considering over half of it seems to be written by a single person of questionable credibility (Gisharel). She's smart enough to know that basing all or most of your knowledge on a single source that you can't even verify isn't going to help you at actually knowing anything, and that's exactly what the Dalish have done for centuries. I already said many pages back that she highly suspects most Dalish lore is either grasping at straws or complete fabrication out of someones (likely Gisharel's) ass, especially stuff about Fen'Heral.

[Abelas Forever!]

He IS deciding everything for Lavellan - there's no point even arguing about that. This is not just about simple break-up - he doesn't just decides that he leaves her; he decides when and how he does it or the extent of things she knows. He decides there's nothing she can do to help him and - by erasing memory of Cole - ensures she has harder time following him and likely finding out what's going on. So far, she has nothing to say in here, be it the fact that he leaves her or the fact that she doesn't understand why he's done it in the first place.

Actually Solas didn't decide when and how he left Lavellan. He was going to tell everything to Lavellan but he lost his courage and told her about vallaslin instead. The last romance scene happened because that. He almost abandoned his mission because her but at the last moment he chose his mission instead of the romance. He handled the whole situation badly and made decision to leave her in that moment not before.

[Illyria]

Yes, I never felt that way. I see her as frustrated, sad, confused, deeply hurt, worried about him once he's gone, a touch angry, but manipulated? No.

 

I'm with you on this one, Cee.  I don't see the Solasmance as manipulative but if Solas had started messing around with my character's memories? Yeah, I wouldn't be in this thread anymore because there is no way I could like Solas.  Ever.

 

I hate memory manipulation plots.  I give Cole a pass because he's not human and doesn't really understand why it's wrong. But Solas is this great believer in freedom and hates the Qun due to their brainwashing.  The idea that he could do something worse to the woman he claimed to love is abhorrent.
 

[midnight tea]

Except if his locking the gods away wasn't for a good reason, Mythal would have torn him apart. She wouldn't stand for him doing something like that if he was wrong to do it. So either both he and Mythal are evil, or they're both good. 

 

.... or the situation is a bit more complicated than that, which is likely how it is. Flemeth/Mythal to be more of a gray character and likely so is Fen'Harel. 

 

 

And elven lore sounds far too much like scapegoating to actually sound believable, it's about as obvious as scapegoating can get. "Oh he was just mad and jealous of both sides despite the fact that he was well respected by both, so of course he'd lock them away while Mythal just stands by and watches"... That sounds like bull****. 

 

... Only you forget that we find out that likely before this whole "locking away the remaining gods" Mythal was already DEAD. 

[andy6915]

By the way, do people not get the significance of his romance tarot card?

 

 

The white wolf is, I suspect, Lavellan. She is the white wolf who will always be in his mind and by his side at heart, a companion who is his equal who he sees as a wolf as much as he sees himself as one. Of course, my interpretation could be wrong...

[dawnstone]

Is anyone doing Solas Positivity Week on tumblr? I have a few fics I'm trying to finish up for it  no weird porn this time, I promise. Link to the relevant post:

 

http://fenharelwin.t...ek-sun-july-5th

[Illyria]

She might be upset but don't you think Solas erasing her memory is going entirely too far and crossing an insanely large amount of lines? Why would he do that to her? If he's going to do that, he might as well erase the memories of the entirety of the Inquisition. I really don't think he'd do that. All he takes away from Cole is what Cole dove into his mind in the first place to see after he's gone.

 

That, in fact, I would say would be an absolutely unforgivable and horrible thing for Solas to do to an Inquisitor who romances him. Multiple times the level of anything else "bad" he did during the romance. Messing with someone's mind even when you can't know how they would handle grief or even if you do know is messed up. Lavellan is not entitled to having Solas stay with her or even explain everything about himself to her, but she's certainly entitled to her memories and experiences.

 

*marries this post*
 

[midnight tea]

Actually Solas didn't decide when and how he left Lavellan. He was going to tell everything to Lavellan but he lost his courage and told her about vallaslin instead. The last romance scene happened because that. He almost abandoned his mission because her but at the last moment he chose his mission instead of the romance. He handled the whole situation badly and made decision to leave her in that moment not before.

 

He decides to break with her on a spot, but it's not like Corypheus attacks right after they break up. Solas has enough time to consider whether he should leave it at that or approach Lavellan (or be approached by her... or Cole) and try and explain it to her, or dunno... do anything to fix him handling this thing badly. Yet he chooses to leave Lavellan in the dark, hurt and confused. Hence it all still remains his decision.

[andy6915]

... Only you forget that we find out that likely before this whole "locking away the remaining gods" Mythal was already DEAD. 

 

Which is another thing the Dalish don't even know about, how does that hurt her thought that most of their lore is wrong? That's just more proof that they very likely got everything about Fen'Heral wrong, not less proof.

 

 

I'm with you on this one, Cee.  I don't see the Solasmance as manipulative but if Solas had started messing around with my character's memories? Yeah, I wouldn't be in this thread anymore because there is no way I could like Solas.  Ever.

 

I hate memory manipulation plots.  I give Cole a pass because he's not human and doesn't really understand why it's wrong. But Solas is this great believer in freedom and hates the Qun due to their brainwashing.  The idea that he could do something worse to the woman he claimed to love is abhorrent.
 

 

And that is exactly the reason he didn't do that to her.

[RynJ]

He IS deciding everything for Lavellan - there's no point even arguing about that. This is not just about simple break-up - he doesn't just decides that he leaves her; he decides when and how he does it or the extent of things she knows. He decides there's nothing she can do to help him and - by erasing memory of Cole - ensures she has harder time following him and likely finding out what's going on. So far, she has nothing to say in here, be it the fact that he leaves her or the fact that she doesn't understand why he's done it in the first place.

 

Also, so far, only WE know that he's Fen'Harel - I'd say that AT BEST, Lavellan is aware that he's not just random apostate dreamer, maybe even has an inkling that he's an ancient elf, but Dread Wolf? Nah.

 

Plus, her finding out that he's the Dread Wolf, who - like you mentioned - is not exactly well-portrayed in elven lore might make her feel even worse about her being basically tricked by legendary deceiver and start doubting the extent to which she actually knows him or how genuine his feelings were.

 

I am arguing about that. Him deciding when and how to end the relationship is still him deciding to leave the relationship. That is not Lavellan's choice, it's his. Ending a relationship is not always an agreement both parties come to. Sometimes, one decides to end it and it is their choice and their right to do so no matter what their reason is, even if it's a stupid reason or you don't like it. It is also his choice whether or not he wants to reveal things about himself to Lavellan or wants Cole to know. None of that is her decision at all. She may deserve to know, but knowing his background is not a choice she can make, until we have some way of learning it from someone other than Solas. Solas must make the choice to tell her. He decides to do this alone more than he decides she can't help him in how I see what happened. I don't know what choice Solas made for Lavellan.

[midnight tea]

By the way, do people not get the significance of his romance tarot card?

 

 

The white wolf is, I suspect, Lavellan. She is the white wolf who will always be in his mind and by his side at heart, a companion who is his equal who he sees as a wolf as much as he sees himself as one. Of course, my interpretation could be wrong...

 

I'd say that it's a rather wonky interpretation, considering that wolf is not shown to be an equal. It's at the edge of the card, not even its entire snout in the frame and it's looking down and away (an entirely different direction Solas is looking).

 

I'd say that the Hierophant card shouldn't be interpreted without taking into consideration what's on the Tower card. If anything, the wolf seems to symbolize the fate or burden Solas imposed on himself. In the Tower card that burden is dominating and consuming - and in this, the wolf is made non-threatening and kinda pushed away. There are two conclusions that can be drawn from this - either the card symbolizes that Solas might see yet another way to deal with the crisis (that doesn't involve doing something terribad) or simply symbolizes the short moment in which he felt happy and almost ready to just let the past go; maybe even pass the responsibility of the future onto another person/generation.

 

In fact, I recommend listening to NerdApprorpiate interview with Mr. Weekes - he rather heavily implies that (for a brief time, at least) Solas was ready to let go his past, to the point that he probably intended to actually FORGET it (I quote verbatim: "he's so ready to just lose himself and forget about the past")....

[andy6915]

I am arguing about that. Him deciding when and how to end the relationship is still him deciding to leave the relationship. That is not Lavellan's choice, it's his. Ending a relationship is not always an agreement both parties come to. Sometimes, one decides to end it and it is their choice and their right to do so no matter what their reason is, even if it's a stupid reason or you don't like it. It is also his choice whether or not he wants to reveal things about himself to Lavellan or wants Cole to know. None of that is her decision at all. She may deserve to know, but knowing his background is not a choice she can make, until we have some way of learning it from someone other than Solas. Solas must make the choice to tell her. He decides to do this alone more than he decides she can't help him in how I see what happened.

 

I think most people are mad at him mainly because he took their agency away. People who play Bioware games are used to having their way, having the entire world mold to their decisions and choices. So to have a character decide to actually do their own thing and express their own agency and be the one who breaks up with them instead of the other way around really really p!sses them off, they hate someone not just bowing to what they want to happen.

[Illyria]

I'm with you on this one, Cee.  I don't see the Solasmance as manipulative but if Solas had started messing around with my character's memories? Yeah, I wouldn't be in this thread anymore because there is no way I could like Solas.  Ever.

 

I hate memory manipulation plots.  I give Cole a pass because he's not human and doesn't really understand why it's wrong. But Solas is this great believer in freedom and hates the Qun due to their brainwashing.  The idea that he could do something worse to the woman he claimed to love is abhorrent.
 

 

Adding to this:

 

I never got the impression that Solas had the power to erase memories.  I think Cole did that to himself at Solas' request.

[midnight tea]

Which is another thing the Dalish don't even know about, how does that hurt her thought that most of their lore is wrong? That's just more proof that they very likely got everything about Fen'Heral wrong, not less proof.

 

Yes, what the Dalish know is wrong, which is exactly why your Lavellan's assumptions about Fen'Harel might be wrong as well. Same with the perception of any gods and their actions.

[RynJ]

I think most people are mad at him mainly because he took their agency away. People who play Bioware games are used to having their way, having the entire world mold to their decisions and choices. So to have a character decide to actually do their own thing and express their own agency and be the one who breaks up with them instead of the other way around really really p!sses them off, they hate someone not just bowing to what they want to happen.

 

It's funny thinking of this in a meta way because of just this. He DID technically take OUR choice away because we're playing a game where we make choices for our companions and in reaction to the things they say and do and, usually, when to enter OR END a romance. But in their world, I don't see how breaking up with Lavellan is taking away her choice. But funny enough, it takes away ours as a player!   I don't think this is really happening here on the forums (and by that I mean this thread because these forums sometimes, man), but I've noticed that sometimes a lot of anger comes from the fact that players forget to separate themselves from their PC. Their PC is them, but in the confines of the game they are on "equal footing" with all the characters around them and sometimes, when people aren't bowing to their whim for being leaders, they will be treated like such.

[andy6915]

Yes, what the Dalish know is wrong, which is exactly why your Lavellan's assumptions about Fen'Harel might be wrong as well. Same with the perception of Dread Wolf or his actions.

 

Of course, she could be wrong. She certainly didn't expect Mythal to be the Orlais court wizard's mother, for example. Part of why she trusts him though is that Mythal apparently did according to her own interpretation of the lore, and she believed in Mythal a lot. She thought Mythal was the woman in the fade who blessed her with the mark, which should tell you her thoughts on Mythal.

 

By the way, did you actually read my first post in this topic? Because it doesn't sound like it, you are giving the vibe that you didn't read that post about how and why she feels that way about Fen'Heral.

[midnight tea]

Adding to this:

 

I never got the impression that Solas had the power to erase memories.  I think Cole did that to himself at Solas' request.

 

 

It's implied that he has the power to manipulate others - whether it's waking them up/making them fall asleep or modifying memory. We don't know the extent of his powers, but everything about Cole's 'message from Solas' implies that what happened to Cole was Solas' doing, not Cole's. When Cole erases his memory of... welll... Cole on spirit path, it didn't happen the way it did after we visit him post-Cory fight.

[andy6915]

It's implied that he has the power to manipulate others - whether it's waking them up/making them fall asleep or modifying memory. We don't know the extent of his powers, but everything about Cole's 'message from Solas' implies that what happened to Cole was Solas' doing, not Cole's. When Cole erases his memory of... welll... Cole on spirit path, it didn't happen the way it did after we visit him post-Cory fight.

 

I'm not even sure what he makes Cole forget. All his memories about Solas in a way that his own mind has erased Solas specifically from all memories, like with Xion from Kingdom Hearts? Or merely his memories about what was troubling Solas and how to contact him, but he stills remember Solas as his friend?

[RynJ]

I'm not even sure what he makes Cole forget. All his memories about Solas in a way that his own mind has erased Solas specifically from all memories, like with Xion from Kingdom Hearts? Or merely his memories about what was troubling Solas and how to contact him, but he stills remember Solas as his friend?

 

All Solas made Cole forget is where he is right now and what he's doing at the moment. We dug up the Weekes tweet that confirmed that a few pages back!

[andy6915]

All Solas made Cole forget is where he is right now and what he's doing at the moment. We dug up the Weekes tweet that confirmed that a few pages back!

 

Good. I read some speculation a long while back about how some people thought Solas might have made Cole forget he ever existed in the first place.

[midnight tea]

I am arguing about that. Him deciding when and how to end the relationship is still him deciding to leave the relationship. That is not Lavellan's choice, it's his. Ending a relationship is not always an agreement both parties come to. Sometimes, one decides to end it and it is their choice and their right to do so no matter what their reason is, even if it's a stupid reason or you don't like it. It is also his choice whether or not he wants to reveal things about himself to Lavellan or wants Cole to know. None of that is her decision at all. She may deserve to know, but knowing his background is not a choice she can make, until we have some way of learning it from someone other than Solas. Solas must make the choice to tell her. He decides to do this alone more than he decides she can't help him in how I see what happened. I don't know what choice Solas made for Lavellan.

 

And I'm NOT arguing about what you're trying to argue here. I mean YES, it is his choice that he leaves Lavellan, but whether it is an agreement between both people or not, you'd think that if he respects her, he takes her feelings into consideration and doesn't leave her in the dark the way he did. This is what I mean when I say that he decides everything for her - for whatever reason he at least doesn't appear to take into consideration how she feels or deserves to know. He likely does, but yet decides he won't be fixing anything and just leaves it at that. Therefore if it backfires on him, he'll only have himself to blame.

[midnight tea]

Good. I read some speculation a long while back about how some people thought Solas might have made Cole forget he ever existed in the first place.

 

I think it would make things very confusing in a DLC, when Cole would be like "eh... who are you?". In any case, thanks to that we know that Solas can erase specific memories.

[RynJ]

And I'm NOT arguing about what you're trying to argue here. I mean YES, it is his choice that he leaves Lavellan, but whether it is an agreement between both people or not, you'd think that if he respects her, he takes her feelings into consideration and doesn't leave her in the dark the way he did. This is what I mean when I say that he decides everything for her - for whatever reason he at least doesn't appear to take into consideration how she feels or deserves to know. He likely does, but yet decides he won't be fixing anything and just leaves it at that. Therefore if it backfires on him, he'll only have himself to blame.

 

That's a different matter. You were arguing before that he makes decisions for Lavellan and that's why I disagreed. It wasn't about whether he did what he did well. I think every Solas fan can give a resounding 'no' to that one! 

 

He takes into consideration how she feels, but he also has to take into consideration what is very, very important to, at least as he perceives it, saving his people. Lavellan is not his whole world and he has something that he believes is more important than his own feelings and relationships that he feels he needs to do.  Leaving her in the dark wasn't something he wanted to do but something he felt he had to do. He respects her and he wanted so badly to tell her, but felt as if he was betraying his purpose by doing so. Because if he told her, he'd never want to leave. Weekes said that he was a hair away from giving up everything and being with Lavellan until he snapped back into rebel, savior, whatever mode and decided he couldn't.

 

I don't think fixing anything is something Solas has any intention of doing right now so he's not thinking any backfiring will come relationship-wise. When he broke away from Lavellan, I doubt he meant it to be anything but permanent at the time. As for only having himself to blame, he definitely knows that too. Solas seems to blame himself alone for a great many things. 

 

Anyways, good debate! I'm going to head off for now though!

[andy6915]

That's a different matter. You were arguing before that he makes decisions for Lavellan and that's why I disagreed. It wasn't about whether he did what he did well. I think every Solas fan can give a resounding 'no' to that one! 

 

He takes into consideration how she feels, but he also has to take into consideration what is very, very important to, at least as he perceives it, saving his people. Lavellan is not his whole world and he has something that he believes is more important than his own feelings and relationships that he feels he needs to do.  Leaving her in the dark wasn't something he wanted to do but something he felt he had to do. He respects her and he wanted so badly to tell her, but felt as if he was betraying his purpose by doing so. Because if he told her, he'd never want to leave. Weekes said that he was a hair away from giving up everything and being with Lavellan until he snapped back into rebel, savior, whatever mode and decided he couldn't.

 

I don't think fixing anything is something Solas has any intention of doing right now so he's not thinking any backfiring will come relationship-wise. When he broke away from Lavellan, I doubt he meant it to be anything but permanent at the time. As for only having himself to blame, he definitely knows that too. Solas seems to blame himself alone for a great many things. 

 

Anyways, good debate! I'm going to head off for now though!

 

The one who is hardest on Solas... Is Solas himself.

[midnight tea]

That's a different matter. You were arguing before that he makes decisions for Lavellan and that's why I disagree with this. It wasn't about whether he did what he did well. I think every Solas fan can give a resounding 'no' to that one! 

 

With him deciding how to handle the situation he inadvertently decides things for Lavellan - that's just how it is. He handled it badly and doesn't try to do much to make situation easier either for him or for her sake. My only argument in this entire discussion is that for someone who supposedly cares deeply for her, he does very little to save her even an inch of unnecessary heartache.

Maybe because he thinks there's nothing he can do to make her feel better, or maybe for some different reason - what remains as fact is that Lavellan is the only Inquisitor who's forced to fight Corypheus with a broken heart. And while we don' know what will happen with other love interests (who knows, maybe they'd be killed or something? ) we also know that she'd get the nastiest surprise, if it turns out that she'll have to confront him and/or his past.... or plans for the world.

 

He takes into consideration how she feels, but he also has to take into consideration what is very, very important to, at least as he perceives it, saving his people. Lavellan is not his whole world and he has something that he believes is more important than his own feelings and relationships that he feels he needs to do.  Leaving her in the dark wasn't something he wanted to do but something he felt he had to do. He respects her and he wanted so badly to tell her, but felt as if he was betraying his purpose by doing so. Because if he told her, he'd never want to leave. Weekes said that he was a hair away from giving up everything and being with Lavellan until he snapped back into rebel, savior, whatever mode and decided he couldn't.

 

The fact that he leaves her for something more important than her or his own feeling is, I think, kinda easy to guess for any Lavellan with two brain-cells to rub together. Thing is that she has no idea what it is - and it could be everything. To be honest, one of the first ideas that came to my mind was that Solas has a wifey and a dozen children waiting for him wherever ancient elves are holed now It would be... a bit anti-climatic, but GAWD, I'd laugh so hard if Mrs. Fen'Harel just showed up one day at Inquisition's doorstep and loudly demanded either returning the bastard to her or for Inky join a party to hunt him down ;D

 

 

I don't think fixing anything is something Solas has any intention of doing right now so he's not thinking any backfiring will come relationship-wise. When he broke away from Lavellan, I doubt he meant it to be anything but permanent at the time.

 

Well then why does he leave only after trying to ensure that his feelings were real??? And if he doesn't indeed have any intention of fixing anything, why he has to leave her so hurt and confused???