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[Abelas Forever!]

He decides to break with her on a spot, but it's not like Corypheus attacks right after they break up. Solas has enough time to consider whether he should leave it at that or approach Lavellan (or be approached by her... or Cole) and try and explain it to her, or dunno... do anything to fix him handling this thing badly. Yet he chooses to leave Lavellan in the dark, hurt and confused. Hence it all still remains his decision.

Yes the break-up is his decision but he didn't plan how and when he would do it. After he had made that decision he decided to stick to it because of reasons we can only guess.

[midnight tea]

Yes the break-up is his decision but he didn't plan how and when he would do it. After he had made that decision he decided to stick to it because of reasons we can only guess.

 

Sticking to him ending relationship is one thing - sticking to not making the sudden break-up any easier for Lavellan is another.

[Abelas Forever!]

Sticking to him ending relationship is one thing - sticking to not making the sudden break-up any easier for Lavellan is another.

I don't know how he would have made the break-up easier for Lavellan after he had broken up with her. I don't see a way how he could have done that without telling everything to her and I think that telling her everything after the break-up would have been even harder than before it.

[midnight tea]

I don't know how he would have made the break-up easier for Lavellan after he had broken up with her. I don't see a way how he could have done that without telling everything to her and I think that telling her everything after the break-up would have been even harder than before it.

 

Solas has grown quite accustomed to telling things while avoiding 'incriminating' details, so I don't think him just hinting at any good reason why he left her is in any way problematic. 

 

Also - if it's getting harder to tell the truth after he breaks up with her (which I don't think is the case), how hard it will be for Lavellan and Solas to confront the truth later?

[Abelas Forever!]

Solas has grown quite accustomed to telling things while avoiding 'incriminating' details, so I don't think him just hinting at any good reason why he left her is in any way problematic. 

 

Also - if it's getting harder to tell the truth after he breaks up with her (which I don't think is the case), how hard it will be for Lavellan and Solas to confront the truth later?

There are several problems if he only hints why he left Lavellan. One is that Lavellan might not understand the hint or misunderstands what it means. If she understands the hint then she probably has a lot  of questions in which she wants to have answers and she probably goes to Solas and starts asking them so what would be the point of hinting in that case?

 

If Lavellan confronts Solas about the truth later it's more difficult situation than if he would have told her about it earlier. But the point is not how difficult is it for him to tell her the truth. The point is that he tried to tell her but he lost his courage to do that. He also chose his mission over their relationship. If Lavellan will confront him about the truth later he will pay the price for not telling her earlier but then again for some reason he couldn't do that. I think it would have been too great risk for telling her everything because she might have wanted to stop him and he couldn't allow anyone to stop him.

[RoraM]

I honestly don't know how to make a break-up hurt any less after I've decided to end a relationship. No explanation seems sufficient to spare the other's feelings. Sadly, the person dumped will always be at a disadvantage, as they necessarily are the second one to know the relationship has ended. Nevertheless, it still is my prerogative to end a relationship I am no longer committed to, for whatever reason. I also know what it's like to be dumped. It is natural to want to run a post mortem on the relationship, but at the end of the day, once a relationship is terminated, there is no obligation to provide answers. Solas' approach is utilitarian: what does it matter when the end result remains the same?

[Elessara]

I admit I kind only skimmed the past couple of pages but the convo seems to be the same so I'll just jump in here ...

 

From Solas' conversations with Iron Bull it becomes clear that Solas regards freedom of thought to be very important.  He hates the Qun for messing with people's heads the way they do.  He probably hated himself for suppressing Cole's memories of his plans but he'll do he must to carry out his plans - break up with Lavellan, suppress Cole's thoughts, take the life of Mythal (or Mythal's current host I should say).

 

Also, Solas seems to be the type of person that prefers a difficult/painful truth to a comfortable lie that makes things easier.

[dreadwoof]

Well then why does he leave only after trying to ensure that his feelings were real??? And if he doesn't indeed have any intention of fixing anything, why he has to leave her so hurt and confused???

 

He definitely has all of the intent to fix things, especially after the immediate danger of Corypheus has been done with. His next move is to set his plan in motion. The after-credits scene tells us that much.

On the matter of leaving her with those final words... I think it's more complex than it appears.

 

While his inner thought process is, admittedly, an open-to-debate, grey area, Solas is adamant and open on his opinions of what he values and through his dialogue he never fails to share them. He is quite forthright on that matter. During his final romance scene he says to Lavellan that truth is the greatest gift he can offer, and (based on when and what he gives an approval bump) he is a firm believer that it's better for people to face the grit of reality and grow from it than it is to live unknowing and blind from the truth. Solas is an advocate of freedom so having a choice in knowing is also something he strongly supports. This sheds light on how he can be somewhat hypocritical because, after all, he falters when faced with the possibility of revealing his whole self and in return shatters both his and Lavellan's heart because he deems his mission more important.

 

So MY line of thought of why he tells Lavellan this, instead of completely severing the tie he was obviously trying to cut after the break-up, is that he thinks the truth will hurt her less. It will hurt, yes, but not in a way he believes is worse. To Lavellan and us, it may seem harsher than just lying or avoiding but perhaps to the one who has witnessed what divine silence can bring it IS better.

 

I suspect he knows that one way or another Lavellan will find out and hopefully, his words will remind her and bring her to realise that he is not the sum of what the legends and tales history and her people yield with unforgiving. 

 

Maybe I'm just romanticizing this all, but for me, this speaks volumes of Solas' character and his complexities. It does not mean that he is without fault, it just signals how his actions can be perceived. And at this point, everything written about him in here can be completely on point or not at all and it would still make sense. Maybe.

 

Either way, bless Weekes for giving me a character that has a delicious sense of vagueness which I can spend my nights crying over. g'night

[jawsisinmywc]

The Solas bot on twitter just said "We will want to launder our clothes later. Or burn them" Does anyone remember when/where Solas says that?

[lynroy]

Fallow Mire if I remember right.

[Cee]

 

Also, Solas seems to be the type of person that prefers a difficult/painful truth to a comfortable lie that makes things easier.

 

This, exactly. A good example is with the Dalish. If you try to comfort the sister and choose the "he was brave" option about her brother who went off to find the artifact and was killed by blood magic, he disapproves. If you tell her that 'kids are stupid' (to paraphrase), he approves. You're not sugarcoating the delivery.

[Ramification]

My interpretation of the break-up.

Solas sees how everything is going down post Mythal Temple and decides it's time to confess. He'll come clean to his love because he hates the lies AND the truth will better arm her in decisions like the one at the Well of Sorrows.

He likes symbols, so he takes her away to some place meaningful. The journey gives him some time to prep and he wants to be totally away from the distractions of Inquisition.

Show time. He's looking her in the eyes and he recognizes that she's oblivious to what's about to come out of his mouth. She trusts him 100 percent! Suspects nothing this big. He gets a cold feeling in the pit of his stomach because he doesn't know how she'll react. She might not believe him like the Dalish when he tried to share even more palatable concepts. Or she might be disgusted and hate him. He's feared this for a long time and ugh...he looses his nerve. He can't face her accusations or enmity.

He backs off into safer territory and talks about the Vallaslin. He tells a truth with meaning but nothing about himself.

The Quiz listens and no matter what choice she makes she believes him. Ugh that makes him love her more because other elves thought him a madman. So maybe there is another way? If she believed him maybe he should just get his head out of all this ancient history and...

.....kisses kiss......

Wait . No wait. No no. He can't keep that all from her and just BE with her. That's a HUGE lie!!!!!!!

<Backing-up from her>

What was he thinking? She'll never accept all this and is he realllly going to abandon everything now? Give himself this gift he doesn't deserve and manipulate someone who loves and trusts him? He can't respect himself and he would lose respect for her/them if he had to watch her wandering around blindly in love not knowing who he is.

He ends it there and then knowing he can't give her a future. She'll get over it. She's strong and being cold will help her get over it faster.

Cut to every other post break up banter and Solas is torn up about it. Cole confirms it. Solas is rolling the break up over in his mind heartbroken too.

Solas believes he had no choice. It's better this way for a myriad of reasons and he's over confident enough to believe he's handling this in the best way for her sake. Now that he's resigned to his plans, I suspect he fears she would try to stop him if she catches on. If she does find out and chooses to try to stop him, better she's free to do that without the complication of an "emotional entanglement". Although, I think Solas misses the fact that breaking up with her didn't end anything in their hearts and a confrontation will be complicated no matter what. He did the best he could at the time, but recognizes that he could have done better as demonstrated in self deprecating comments such as "it was selfish of me" and "I'm furious with himself too."

Credit roll.

In closing, I think he should have told her but that's not Solas. I 100% believe that he wants to leave her with the freedom to chose to oppose him without the complexity of love and loyalty getting in the way. She's "free" to chose and he owed her that much at least.


--------------

[NightSymphony]

Art time

 

In Hushed Whispers Part 14 - The End

http://krissymadcat....rt-14-543901365

 

*rolls eyes*

http://kradmousey.de...laven-543924223

[Vlk3]

@Ramification,

 

I think you got it just right. The whole break-up scene and all the reasons behind it.

[ChuChu]

Solas' final words to the Inquisitor (what we had was real) are undoubtedly the last gift of truth he can offer her, as he knows not whether he will live to see her again, or if he does, it wouldn't be under the same light. It also serves to soften the blow of what he knows will befall the Inquisitor next: his abrupt disappearance, Leliana revealing his 'past', and all while dealing with the breakup up, still. Since a romanced Inquisitor should already be aware of his value for truth and freedom, then these words would not be taken lightly -- or at least, he would hope.

Also, regarding meeting under a different light in the future, this falls under the assumption that Solas will reveal (or some other source will reveal) more of his plot machinations and more of his history. Or, if that information is withheld it would be all the worse, because whatever designs Solas enacts could be taken in the wrong way by everyone -- it could be assumed his actions are nefarious. His past actions malevolent. The final words he says to an Inquisitor, whether romanced or not, pre-emptively attempt to defend his character and ties to the Inquisition... Not to mention his love for her.

The fact that Solas delivers these final words and still calls her vhenan after 'breaking up' with her tells me his actions were more an attempt to be noble (to his mission and to the Inquisitor)... than being a reflection of his heart.

I'm in the camp that this was just a hiccup in their relationship, a consequence of Solas' good intentions, and that he still loves her ardently. With that in mind, I hold out optimistically that he would want to continue the relationship in DLC if the Inquisitor still expressed her love for him, regardless of what was discovered after Corypheus' defeat. Because dammit, Solas deserves it. -waves team optimism flag-

[Uirebhiril]

Solas believes he had no choice. It's better this way for a myriad of reasons and he's over confident enough to believe he's handling this in the best way for her sake. Now that he's resigned to his plans, I suspect he fears she would try to stop him if she catches on. If she does find out and chooses to try to stop him, better she's free to do that without the complication of an "emotional entanglement". Although, I think Solas misses the fact that breaking up with her didn't end anything in their hearts and a confrontation will be complicated no matter what.

 

I suspect this is what some people mean when they say that Solas took Lavellan's decision away from her. While it is true to a degree - she was never given a chance to say whether or not she believed him, hated him, forgave him, whatever - it's also his right to share only what he is comfortable with. Because he could not bring himself to do so, and he can't risk giving himself up in the face of whatever mission he has left to do, he ends it. Which, again, is his own right. In the moment he was probably overwhelmed and heartbroken, but even after they returned to Skyhold and he had a chance to think it over he may have decided it was for the best and hardened his own heart in the face of it. Treating Lavellan with cool indifference was a better option than sending mixed signals, especially since it was obvious during the breakup that he still deeply cared for her.

 

That, and his parting words about how their relationship had been real is as much as he could offer for closure and "helping" Lavellan move on. I would certainly like more of the story, to see how he and Lavellan could deal with whatever he has to say, and Lavellan would like an explanation too - but no one is guaranteed even that much when they take up with someone else in a relationship. He said they couldn't be together, but what they had meant something, and that's that. At least, until DLC comes and we either cry ugly tears or sing praises to Weekes. Or both.

[andy6915]

Leliana revealing his 'past',

 

I didn't get this scene. She was made divine and the conversation was about that, and further talking just got standard dialogue. Nothing said about Solas.

[coldwetn0se]

I might be sounding like a broken record.

I still am failing to see where some believe that Solas possesses a "mind-altering" skill set. The ability to change or erase someone's memories. The evidence that we have, only seems to come from Cole. During our first conversations with Cole, he can tell the Inquisitor about how (and why) he can make people forget. Including himself. Now, if someone chooses to interpret Cole forgetting Solas' plans, as some sort of manipulation on Solas' part, that is entirely their choice. I don't personally see it that way, since Cole (once again, going off of those first dialogues with him) is pretty clear as to why he uses this ability of forgetting.

It is true, that there is one dubious point, that might influence the idea of Solas having the ability to "bend someone's mind" (for the lack of better term...sorry about that ). During the banter Cole and Solas have, when discussing Solas' past, Cole begins to reveal things as the memories come to him. Then he "gasps" and says, "Where did it go?" . Solas then apologizes to Cole, but explains that this is a hurt he can not heal. To me, all Solas is doing, is blocking Cole off from those memories. One minute Cole has access, and the next....he does not.

The only evidence of altering or removing memories, is from Cole. You can even see him fret over it a bit, when he starts becoming more human (if you follow that path). Little things he used to do, without others knowing or remembering (i.e. honey in Leliana's wine). It is a talent that can become harder or hampered when taking the human path, and it does illustrate (in a "meta" way), how often he most likely used it amongst many at Skyhold.

BTW, as much as I am squeamish about mind reading and memory altering (NO one wants to know what is in my head....or most peoples heads ), Cole being a spirit and having a very specific purpose, does make him an exception for me. At least, in this story. That may not be true for other gamers, and I can appreciate that. But for me, I see his talent as unique to his very make-up and being. It fits his role, and I as both the player and PC (so far all of my PC's have been of a similar mind on this matter), are accepting of this.

[Ramification]

Solas' final words to the Inquisitor (what we had was real) are undoubtedly the last gift of truth he can offer her, as he knows not whether he will live to see her again, or if he does, it wouldn't be under the same light. It also serves to soften the blow of what he knows will befall the Inquisitor next: his abrupt disappearance, Leliana revealing his 'past', and all while dealing with the breakup up, still. Since a romanced Inquisitor should already be aware of his value for truth and freedom, then these words would not be taken lightly -- or at least, he would hope.

Also, regarding meeting under a different light in the future, this falls under the assumption that Solas will reveal (or some other source will reveal) more of his plot machinations and more of his history. Or, if that information is withheld it would be all the worse, because whatever designs Solas enacts could be taken in the wrong way by everyone -- it could be assumed his actions are nefarious. His past actions malevolent. The final words he says to an Inquisitor, whether romanced or not, pre-emptively attempt to defend his character and ties to the Inquisition... Not to mention his love for her.

The fact that Solas delivers these final words and still calls her vhenan after 'breaking up' with her tells me his actions were more an attempt to be noble (to his mission and to the Inquisitor)... than being a reflection of his heart.

I'm in the camp that this was just a hiccup in their relationship, a consequence of Solas' good intentions, and that he still loves her ardently. With that in mind, I hold out optimistically that he would want to continue the relationship in DLC if the Inquisitor still expressed her love for him, regardless of what was discovered after Corypheus' defeat. Because dammit, Solas deserves it. -waves team optimism flag-

 

Love your optimism. I'm hoping for the same.

 

I think Solas underrates Lavallen's capacity to understand the situation once she's digested allllllll the info. He often told her that she "surprised him", complimented her subtlety and ability to make hard decisions. However, when it came to the complexity of his own baggage he underestimated her. That's just my thinking anyway and I recognize we don't know everything he's hiding yet. I'm hoping they can be together and Solas miscalculated the possible outcomes. 

 

I don't remember him calling her "Vhenan" after the break? When did that happen?

[ChuChu]

I didn't get this scene. She was made divine and the conversation was about that, and further talking just got standard dialogue. Nothing said about Solas.

You have to read Solas' tarot after end game.

[andy6915]

You have to read Solas' tarot after end game.

 

... Oh for f***...

 

I'm glad I kept my post game file. Sorta. I saved at the beginning of the party so I could get every single of dialogue possible from party members by picking different options for each reload. So I'll have to return to my quarters. Wish I knew about this a few days ago.

[Cee]

... Oh for f***...

 

I'm glad I kept my post game file. Sorta. I saved at the beginning of the party so I could get every single of dialogue possible from party members by picking different options for each reload. So I'll have to return to my quarters. Wish I knew about this a few days ago.

 

It's on the wiki. His codex changes after the end.

 

http://dragonage.wik...ex_entry:_Solas

[MayriyaNoori]

*wakes up and catches up with thread*

 

Whoa.....well.

 

I have had an interesting thought already today though. Think about this.

 

Lavellan says at the temple of Mythal that her clan placed Fen'harel statues outside camp to protect them from bad spirits, aka demons, and two interesting things. First, Solas doesn't comment on this which could actually be taken as him not offended by this gesture of her clan. That is speculating, but Solas is generally very vocal when it comes to offending him. and quite eloquent about I might add. Second.....in a way Solas has fulfilled the request of clan Lavellan by protecting their a member of their clan from demons in his own ways. Guiding and teaching her as much about the Fade and spirits as he can and within what the Inquisitor will allow.

 

He does this EVEN if he and the inquisitor don't get along.

[ChuChu]

Love your optimism. I'm hoping for the same.

I think Solas underrates Lavallen's capacity to understand the situation once she's digested allllllll the info. He often told her that she "surprised him", complimented her subtlety and ability to make hard decisions. However, when it came to the complexity of his own baggage he underestimated her. That's just my thinking anyway and I recognize we don't know everything he's hiding yet. I'm hoping they can be together and Solas miscalculated the possible outcomes.

I don't remember him calling her "Vhenan" after the break? When did that happen?

I completely agree , Solas is underestimating The Inquisitor. I realize that after the events in All New Faded For Her he admits it is difficult for him to trust, and that he would try... And I think it makes it all the more painful when you see him clam up after the break up. Lavellan, and also non romanced inquisitors, would continue to surprise him, I am sure. It's a shame he does not venture to give them that opportunity. But... It does help to make for a great story! Solas' character flaws are one reason why we love him.

Also! As for the vhenan bit, it's technically after the break up but it happens during that scene all the same. So you didn't miss anything, it was just my wording! After he steps back and breaks it off/says he won't distract her again, there is a line of dialogue to take that results in him saying something like 'vhenan, please'. It's heartbreaking.

[midnight tea]

*wakes up and catches up with thread*

 

Whoa.....well.

 

I have had an interesting thought already today though. Think about this.

 

Lavellan says at the temple of Mythal that her clan placed Fen'harel statues outside camp to protect them from bad spirits, aka demons, and two interesting things. First, Solas doesn't comment on this which could actually be taken as him not offended by this gesture of her clan. That is speculating, but Solas is generally very vocal when it comes to offending him. and quite eloquent about I might add. Second.....in a way Solas has fulfilled the request of clan Lavellan by protecting their a member of their clan from demons in his own ways. Guiding and teaching her as much about the Fade and spirits as he can and within what the Inquisitor will allow.

 

He does this EVEN if he and the inquisitor don't get along.

 

He does that for EVERY Inquisitor, so this has nothing to do with "fulfilling clan Lavellan's request". It's more a matter of necessity - Inquisitor is, pretty obviously, the one person from whom a lot depends on, but at the same time they're fairly regular people before they acquired the Anchor. With such great responsibility falling on Heralds out of the blue, it's pretty obvious they need guidance.

 

If anything, it seems that Solas has experience guiding important people - by his own admission, he's joined his share of causes and it's likely not the first time he's there to guide people and 'nudge the history' in his own way. I think it's especially noticeable that he thinks of himself as a mentoring figure when we hear his banter with Sera, when he lectures her about how to effectively lead her group, even though she doesn't really want his lessons..... only to conclude at the end, after Sera complains that he makes her head hurt sometimes, that 'he's been known to do that'.

 

... So he knows he can go overboard with this as well Still, many times he just can't help himself. One of his major flaws, I think, is that he thinks he knows what's best for everyone. It indicates that he likely has control issues, aside form pretty obvious trust issues.