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[Sah291]

Credit roll.In closing, I think he should have told her but that's not Solas. I 100% believe that he wants to leave her with the freedom to chose to oppose him without the complexity of love and loyalty getting in the way. She's "free" to chose and he owed her that much at least.
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I think you are probably right with your interpretation.

Also, I feel like there is some subtext in the relationship between Solas and the Inquisitor (not just as an LI, but for all Inquisitors), that implies their paths/purpose may be opposed or possibly rivaled. He was the "villain" among them the whole time. Hence the "if we're both still alive, it will be clear" and "you will see" talk. The Inquisitor's purpose is to restore order and (to some extent) stop/reverse what he has done. He may have gone too far this time, but I think his goals are probably still the same ultimately. I don't think that has changed.

Which is partly why I think he is so surprised when the Inquisitor isn't what he expects, and why he's drawn in by a romanced Lavellan who appears to be possibly open to sharing his end goals, if even they are on different sides or their methods are different. But for now, it's just a dream/fantasy.

For now he had an unfair advantage keeping his identity concealed. He leaves with the upper hand, but I think he figures it won't last, so he has to make his moves quickly.

[andy6915]

You know, this kind of post might get dislikes if disliking posts was possible on here, but... Well, I have a thought about Solas. He fails a lot. He fails so often that he's still trailing behind his own failures, with more problems getting added each time he tries to stop failing. He failed when he locked the gods away, because elves went into decline. He failed when he gave the orb to Corifispits, which was an attempt to fix the last mistake. Then he failed when orb was destroyed instead of being recovered from Corphishits. Then he failed when he had to be the one to sorta-kill Mythal to try to fix the last 3 mistakes. He made a problem, and then made a bigger problem when he tried to fix the last problem, and then made and even bigger problem when he tried to fix the last problem that was meant to fix the first problem.

 

problem>try to fix>2 current problems>try to fix second problem>3 current problems>try to fix third problem>4 problems

 

I'm wondering where and how this pattern is going to finally break. He also did the same thing with the breakup, made a problem into an even bigger problem when he tried to fix it. I made a post a page or so ago saying no one is harder on Solas than Solas himself, but... Well, he has good reason to be hard on himself. He really needs to learn to cut his losses instead of constantly playing slot machines because he thinks he's going to get a jackpot soon, which he nearly did thanks to his girlfriend (either a jackpot of a loss cut). It's like he thinks that the best way to dig yourself out of a hole is to keep digging until you pop out on the other side of the planet after going right through the molten core.

 

 

...And now people will hate me. Don't get me wrong, I really liked his character. Nothing I said here means I didn't mean any of my prior posts, I just wanted to say my honest perspective about him. He's a flawed character, but that's partly why he's interesting.

[Cee]

I completely agree , Solas is underestimating The Inquisitor. I realize that after the events in All New Faded For Her he admits it is difficult for him to trust, and that he would try... And I think it makes it all the more painful when you see him clam up after the break up. Lavellan, and also non romanced inquisitors, would continue to surprise him, I am sure. It's a shame he does not venture to give them that opportunity. But... It does help to make for a great story! Solas' character flaws are one reason why we love him.

 

And it makes for good inspiration to bring extra feels to us all through your comics.

 

He's definitely underestimating an Inquisitor, romanced or not. He admits he has trust issues and to an inquisitor he dislikes, if told to trust in friends, he talks about having been betrayed and that made him unable to do so. Of course, after his quest he does say he will try, and he does try. He almost gets there. Almost.

 

And yet so far.

 

 

[midnight tea]

You know, this kind of post might get dislikes if disliking posts was possible on here, but... Well, I have a thought about Solas. He fails a lot. He fails so often that he's still trailing behind his own failures, with more problems getting added each time he tries to stop failing. He failed when he locked the gods away, because elves went into decline. He failed when he gave the orb to Corifispits, which was an attempt to fix the last mistake. Then he failed when orb was destroyed instead of being recovered from Corphishits. Then he failed when he had to be the one to sorta-kill Mythal to try to fix the last 3 mistakes. He made a problem, and then made a bigger problem when he tried to fix the last problem, and then made and even bigger problem when he tried to fix the last problem that was meant to fix the first problem.

 

problem>try to fix>2 current problems>try to fix second problem>3 current problems>try to fix third problem>4 problems

 

I'm wondering where and how this pattern is going to finally break. He also did the same thing with the breakup, made a problem into an even bigger problem when he tried to fix it. I made a post a page or so ago saying no one is harder on Solas than Solas himself, but... Well, he has good reason to be hard on himself. He really needs to learn to cut his losses instead of constantly playing slot machines because he thinks he's going to get a jackpot soon, which he nearly did thanks to his girlfriend (either a jackpot of a loss cut). It's like he thinks that the best way to dig yourself out of a hole is to keep digging until you pop out on the other side of the planet after going right through the molten core.

 

 

...And now people will hate me. Don't get me wrong, I really liked his character. Nothing I said here means I didn't mean any of my prior posts, I just wanted to say my honest perspective about him. He's a flawed character, but that's partly why he's interesting.

 

Not really sure why people should hate you, since I think this is exactly what happens - I think his life is pretty much defined by sad irony; he wants to save the world or turn it for better, but he only makes things harder/more complicated; he cares about people, but he only ends up hurting them; he knows the taste of betrayal, but he himself is forced to betray others.

The saddest part of it is that he seems to be painfully aware of it. A lot indicates that he thinks of himself as already damned or beyond redemption - which is also likely a factor of why he breaks up with Lavellan. 

 

Though TBH, I think he fails so much, because whatever goal he's set himself upon is pretty much impossible. Too many big things stand on his way - however, I also don't think that he hopes he'll hit the jackpot anytime soon. He said to Varric in banter once that he's not much of a gambler anymore and I think he says it in a very broad sense. He probably liked to take risks in his youth, only for it to backfire badly.

At this point, I think whatever he's trying to save, he has the last shot to do it (as unlikely it is that he'll succeed) and it's not a matter of gambling with the fate, but desperate attempt to save and conserve whatever it was that was lost. This is also why he approves more of Inquisitor telling him that they want to undo Corypheus' damage and get things back to the way they were before, more than he approves of IQ saying that they want to help the world move forward. His meek approval signify that he still wants to make things better, but at this point he's burned himself too much to believe that it is possible, hence he'll just stick with safer - even if still highly risky - bet.

 

His major problem now seems to be that he thinks he's the only one who can make a difference and/or carry the dirty burden of whatever has to be done. Question now is whether he'd be able to trust anyone to either let them help him... or let them stop him, while he learns to either let things go, or entrust the fate of the world into somebody else's hands.

[Elessara]

You know, this kind of post might get dislikes if disliking posts was possible on here, but... Well, I have a thought about Solas. He fails a lot. He fails so often that he's still trailing behind his own failures, with more problems getting added each time he tries to stop failing. He failed when he locked the gods away, because elves went into decline. He failed when he gave the orb to Corifispits, which was an attempt to fix the last mistake. Then he failed when orb was destroyed instead of being recovered from Corphishits. Then he failed when he had to be the one to sorta-kill Mythal to try to fix the last 3 mistakes. He made a problem, and then made a bigger problem when he tried to fix the last problem, and then made and even bigger problem when he tried to fix the last problem that was meant to fix the first problem.

 

problem>try to fix>2 current problems>try to fix second problem>3 current problems>try to fix third problem>4 problems

 

I'm wondering where and how this pattern is going to finally break. He also did the same thing with the breakup, made a problem into an even bigger problem when he tried to fix it. I made a post a page or so ago saying no one is harder on Solas than Solas himself, but... Well, he has good reason to be hard on himself. He really needs to learn to cut his losses instead of constantly playing slot machines because he thinks he's going to get a jackpot soon, which he nearly did thanks to his girlfriend (either a jackpot of a loss cut). It's like he thinks that the best way to dig yourself out of a hole is to keep digging until you pop out on the other side of the planet after going right through the molten core.

 

 

...And now people will hate me. Don't get me wrong, I really liked his character. Nothing I said here means I didn't mean any of my prior posts, I just wanted to say my honest perspective about him. He's a flawed character, but that's partly why he's interesting.

 

Don't worry, no one's going to hate you for this.  A lot of people here have commented on the exact same topic.  We're honestly not blind to Solas' faults or mistakes.

 

Although with regards to locking the gods away ... we're not really sure that's what he did.  We can make an assumption given the evidence and I'd say it's a very strong assumption but we really don't know what happened.  Let's assume, however that he did lock the gods away.  If his intention was to free the elves from the tyranny of the gods then he succeeded.  I'm also not sure if the elves were starting to lose their immortality before or after the gods were locked away.  If it was before then that's probably not Solas' fault.  I think I ran across a reference that indicated the gods were still around when the elves started to become mortal but I don't quite remember where I read that and I believe it was an in game reference so it may not be accurate.

 

At any rate, I don't think it's fair to assume that everything he's done has been a complete failure.  We know he feels guilty about much of what he's done and that he feels as though he failed.

 

I'm not going to argue against giving the orb to Corypheus b/c ... really, wtf?!  lol

[MayriyaNoori]

He does that for EVERY Inquisitor, so this has nothing to do with "fulfilling clan Lavellan's request". It's more a matter of necessity - Inquisitor is, pretty obviously, the one person from whom a lot depends on, but at the same time they're fairly regular people before they acquired the Anchor. With such great responsibility falling on Heralds out of the blue, it's pretty obvious they need guidance.

 

If anything, it seems that Solas has experience guiding important people - by his own admission, he's joined his share of causes and it's likely not the first time he's there to guide people and 'nudge the history' in his own way. I think it's especially noticeable that he thinks of himself as a mentoring figure when we hear his banter with Sera, when he lectures her about how to effectively lead her group, even though she doesn't really want his lessons..... only to conclude at the end, after Sera complains that he makes her head hurt sometimes, that 'he's been known to do that'.

 

... So he knows he can go overboard with this as well Still, many times he just can't help himself. One of his major flaws, I think, is that he thinks he knows what's best for everyone. It indicates that he likely has control issues, aside form pretty obvious trust issues.

I was just more implying that Fen'Harel is doing something that at least one Dalish clan out in the world attributes to him. Not that he heard them.

[andy6915]

Not really sure why people should hate you, since I think this is exactly what happens - I think his life is pretty much defined by sad irony; he wants to save the world or turn it for better, but he only makes things harder/more complicated; he cares about people, but he only ends up hurting them; he knows the taste of betrayal, but he himself is forced to betray others.

The saddest part of it is that he seems to be painfully aware of it. A lot indicates that he thinks of himself as already damned or beyond redemption - which is also likely a factor of why he breaks up with Lavellan. 

 

Though TBH, I think he fails so much, because whatever goal he's set himself upon is pretty much impossible. Too many big things stand on his way - however, I also don't think that he hopes he'll hit the jackpot anytime soon. He said to Varric in banter once that he's not much of a gambler anymore and I think he says it in a very broad sense. He probably liked to take risks in his youth, only for it to backfire badly.

At this point, I think whatever he's trying to save, he has the last shot to do it (as unlikely it is that he'll succeed) and it's not a matter of gambling with the fate, but desperate attempt to save and conserve whatever it was that was lost. This is also why he approves more of Inquisitor telling him that they want to undo Corypheus' damage and get things to the way roughly to how they were before more than he approves of IQ saying that they want to help the world move forward. His meek approval signify that he still wants to make things better, but at this point he's burned himself too much to believe that it is possible, hence he'll just stick with safer - even if still highly risky - bet.

 

His major problem now seems to be that he thinks he's the only one who can make a difference and/or carry the dirty burden of whatever has to be done. Question now is whether he'd be able to trust anyone to either let them help him... or let them stop him, while he learns to either let things go, or entrust the fate of the world into somebody else's hand.

 

It might be hated because this topic, like all character topics, is completely full of fans of that character. I'm one of those fans of Solas. But I said some rather negative things about him, so I expected anger.

 

I call him a gambler because he just can't cut his losses. He couldn't cut them after he screwed up with the god sealing, he couldn't after giving the orb to corphydicks (thought this one is at least understandable since at that point Coriphenus needed to be stopped) he couldn't after the orb was destroyed, and he couldn't after killing Mythal for good... I assume, anyway. The whole point of taking her power is that he's still going and refusing to cut losses. If he'd just stop, the failures would at least stop piling up. But no, after metaphorically putting himself in poverty and putting all his life savings into the slot machine he just has to empty out every last bit of money he has because he so desperately wants and needs to hit that jackpot.

[andy6915]

Basically, he's a gambler who's stuck in the fallacy right now-

 

www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/174-sunk-cost-fallacy

 

"Description: Reasoning that further investment is warranted on the fact that the resources already invested will be lost otherwise, not taking into consideration the overall losses involved in the further investment."

[midnight tea]

I think at this point it's a matter of momentum - he can't stop, because it's not just a matter of him making a personal investment, but fate of the world. He's pretty much put himself in a no-win situation.

[Uirebhiril]

It might be hated because this topic, like all character topics, is completely full of fans of that character. I'm one of those fans of Solas. But I said some rather negative things about him, so I expected anger.

 

This is often true, but of all the game characters I've seen over the years Solas seems to have attracted individuals who are capable of discussing his good and bad points without having some sort of frothing need to be "right" about if he's good or bad. Don't like him, but have an interesting point to make or a question to ask? Great! Like him and want to discuss how cute he is when he chuckles? Sure! And somehow the Solas thread has collectively made this work from the earliest days when all we knew of him was that we had an elf mage companion on our team. It's quite refreshing.

[andy6915]

I think at this point it's a matter of momentum - he can't stop, because it's not just a matter of him making a personal investment, but fate of the world. He's pretty much put himself in a no-win situation.

 

No, he does have a winning solution: STOP. His goal is to put elves back on top, right? To make them the masters of the world and above other races like they used to be? And to possibly tear the veil down that he created because he's decided the fade really needs to be back in the physical world again? He'll trade one oppressed race at the expense of other races and cause a fade induced apocalypse, because that's what he thinks he needs to do to undo his very first mistake of making the veil and locking the other gods away. But while things absolutely suck for elves now, I don't think his plan will end well.

 

So in a way, you're right. If he fails his plans he'll think he failed, and if he succeeds the rest of the world will fail. It will be a failure for someone either way.

[Solas]

For Solas now I think, he clearly truly believes that this is the only way and that he has to do it (whatever it is, presumably something involving stuff like saving the People, however misguided his ideas may be) and that he has no choice. He put a lot of thought into altering his course (see: PW on how he nearly gave it all up to stay with her but realizes he couldn't) but at his core he simply can't. He is not the kind of man that takes things lightly or makes decisions easily. 

 

It's inexorable. Flemeth says alas, so long as the music plays, we dance

 

Even powerful entities in Thedas like Flemeth are compelled to do certain things and bound to others. Solas is another one of these figures. 

[andy6915]

It's inexorable. Flemeth says alas, so long as the music plays, we dance

 

Even powerful entities in Thedas like Flemeth are compelled to do certain things and bound to others. Solas is another one of these figures. 

 

Yes. He's drained his money, his life savings, and still doesn't have the jackpot. So he had to take someone else's money (Mythal's power) to maybe hit the jackpot he wants so badly, because he blew everything he had on trying and failing. Problem is that the slot machine is going to shoot an apocalypse out of it instead of money.

 

You know, pride really is his weakness. I can quite easily understand the reason behind his name being elven for pride.

[Solas]

This is often true, but of all the game characters I've seen over the years Solas seems to have attracted individuals who are capable of discussing his good and bad points without having some sort of frothing need to be "right" about if he's good or bad. Don't like him, but have an interesting point to make or a question to ask? Great! Like him and want to discuss how cute he is when he chuckles? Sure! And somehow the Solas thread has collectively made this work from the earliest days when all we knew of him was that we had an elf mage companion on our team. It's quite refreshing.

I really enjoy this about the Solas thread in particular. Of course we've had ups and downs like any other character thread but we've been around for many many months (heck longer than a year right?) now so little blips here and there are to be expected. It's a nice contrast to some areas of the Tumblr Solas fan/critical discussion which, while I still really enjoy and actively participate in, there are some individuals there who are the type to get frothing about being "right" - fans and people who dislike his character both I have observed. But that's tumblr for you isnt it. Tumblr does that with everything    

[Solas]

Also: yes I suspect that whatever Solas' plans are, the outcome of it would be amazing in some ways and really bad in other ways. It won't be some magic bullet that will just fix Thedas or the lot of elves with no negative impact or fall-out.

 

"When the Wolf lost/won"

"Betrayer" and "deception" alongside "struggle" and "noble opposition"

"To the inevitable and troubling freedom we are committed"

 

It's all good-bad duality, it's all juxtaposition. He's trying to bring about some kind of seismic-scale change, and change can be both destructive and creative.

[Cee]

With regards to his thinking about trying over and over, well it's heartbreaking that the Inquisitor, especially one he loves, basically serves to lend his notion of dusting yourself off and trying and trying again until you get it right.

 

You know, this one:

 

 

But the Inquisitor's words can also mean to try and work with what you have, to make the best of it. But Solas has a blind spot.

 

In any case, Solas takes those words and interprets them as reinforcing his own beliefs, but remember conversations between Solas and Varric. Solas has a certain blindness and stubbornness with regards to the present. Even after waking from uthenera, he still spends a large part of his time in the Fade. He is fixated on elements of the past. He feels like he made mistakes and got things wrong but in the end, people endure, they adjusted, there is sadness and loss but there's also ways in which people move on, they endure, they're stubborn in figuring out how to live.

 

This is extremely telling:

 

• Varric: All the "fallen empire" crap you go on about. What's so great about empires anyway?
• Varric: So we lost the Deep Roads, and Orzammar's too proud to ask for help. So what? We're not Orzammar and we're not our empire.
• Varric: There are tens of thousands of us living up here in the sunlight now, and it's not that bad.
• Varric: Life goes on. It's just different than it used to be.
• Solas: And you have no concept of what that difference cost you.
• Varric: Oh I know what it didn't cost me. I'm still here, even after all those thaigs fell.
• Solas: You truly are content to sit in the sun, never wondering what you could've been, never fighting back?
• Varric: Ha, you've got it all wrong, Chuckles. This is fighting back.
• Solas: How does passively accepting your fate constitute a fight?
• Varric: In that story of yours—the fisherman watching the stars, dying alone—you thought he gave up right?
• Solas: Yes.
• Varric: But he went on living. He lost everyone, but he still got up every morning. He made a life, even if it was alone.
• Varric: That's the world. Everything you build, it tears down. Everything you've got, it takes—and it's gone forever.
• Varric: The only choices you get are to lie down and die or keep going. He kept going. That's as close to beating the world as anyone gets.
• Solas: Well said. Perhaps I was mistaken.

[Cee]

I really enjoy this about the Solas thread in particular. Of course we've had ups and downs like any other character thread but we've been around for many many months (heck longer than a year right?) now so little blips here and there are to be expected. It's a nice contrast to some areas of the Tumblr Solas fan/critical discussion which, while I still really enjoy and actively participate in, there are some individuals there who are the type to get frothing about being "right" - fans and people who dislike his character both I have observed. But that's tumblr for you isnt it. Tumblr does that with everything    

 

I agree, and it's why I've stayed. Most people here are fans of Solas but we can also be critical of Solas. A large part of why he's such a compelling character is because he is so flawed, so gray, so layered - mysterious, tragic, self-denying, but also prone to assumptions, makes questionable decisions, is somewhat blind to alternate solutions, among other things. He's utterly complex. And the fact we can still have these discussions during the long wait for DLC says something.

[Kestrel]

Hah, I was just coming in here to shake my head at Tumblr, and look at the topic of discussion. 

 

Apparently I am now a bad fan because I acknowledge Solas haas flaws and that he may be morally grey and I just... can't even with Tumblr fandom right now. They're honestly kind of driving me away from wanting to create content and show it to them because I am 100% about character flaws and exploring them and seeing how they shape who a character is, and apparently that is bad. 

[Uirebhiril]

Maybe in the end it will be Fen'Harel that was betrayed, rather than being the betrayer. He didn't act in time, or acted in the wrong way, or was completely oblivious to things. Then he's framed. Then things get worse and he's hated and is forgotten about. Meanwhile he's standing there with a quivering lip and tears in his eyes and blames himself for it all and is trying to make up for what he feels was his mistake and failing.

 

I doubt that will be the case, but wouldn't that just put everyone on their ear.

 

Which does remind me, who was it that said that Solas has complex feelings about Mythal? I still wonder what that's about.

[midnight tea]

Hah, I was just coming in here to shake my head at Tumblr, and look at the topic of discussion. 

 

Apparently I am now a bad fan because I acknowledge Solas haas flaws and that he may be morally grey and I just... can't even with Tumblr fandom right now. They're honestly kind of driving me away from wanting to create content and show it to them because I am 100% about character flaws and exploring them and seeing how they shape who a character is, and apparently that is bad. 

 

Curious... I mean, I always thought he is an interesting character in large part because of his flaws? If we deny their existence, what is there to gush about? That he's a mysterious, brooding, possible-god-like figure symbolized by the ever-sexay wolf? Oh gawd, I don't want Solas to turn into yet another anime-ish cliche >.<

[midnight tea]

Maybe in the end it will be Fen'Harel that was betrayed, rather than being the betrayer. He didn't act in time, or acted in the wrong way, or was completely oblivious to things. Then he's framed. Then things get worse and he's hated and is forgotten about. Meanwhile he's standing there with a quivering lip and tears in his eyes and blames himself for it all and is trying to make up for what he feels was his mistake and failing.

 

I doubt that will be the case, but wouldn't that just put everyone on their ear.

 

Honestly? I wouldn't be surprised if that was the way he was betrayed - because the fact that he was betrayed at some point is kinda well-established.

 

Or it might as well be sort of "Batman: The Dark Knight" scenario, when an accomplice or someone he trusts or cares about does something bad and Fen'Harel takes the blame.

[andy6915]

Hah, I was just coming in here to shake my head at Tumblr, and look at the topic of discussion. 

 

Apparently I am now a bad fan because I acknowledge Solas haas flaws and that he may be morally grey and I just... can't even with Tumblr fandom right now. They're honestly kind of driving me away from wanting to create content and show it to them because I am 100% about character flaws and exploring them and seeing how they shape who a character is, and apparently that is bad. 

 

This was the exact reaction I expected from here when I actually noted Solas' flaws. Glad I don't even use Tumblr.

[Kestrel]

Curious... I mean, I always thought he is an interesting character predominantly in large part because of his flaws? If we deny their existence, what is there to gush about? That he's a mysterious, brooding, possible-god-like figure? Oh gawd, I don't want Solas to turn into yet another anime-ish cliche >.<

 

That's basically how some people seem to see him. He's their imaginary boyfriend and they will tolerate no negativity about him. 

[Cee]

Hah, I was just coming in here to shake my head at Tumblr, and look at the topic of discussion. 

 

Apparently I am now a bad fan because I acknowledge Solas haas flaws and that he may be morally grey and I just... can't even with Tumblr fandom right now. They're honestly kind of driving me away from wanting to create content and show it to them because I am 100% about character flaws and exploring them and seeing how they shape who a character is, and apparently that is bad. 

 

If these people fail to see/acknowledge Solas' layers and flaws, well, they have failed in understanding the character. He's so compelling because of how layered he is.

 

I don't really encounter anyone praising him as a flawless character though, but I suppose I'm not following those people. Though we are on the verge of Solas positivity week so I guess expect more emphasis.

 

It's what I like about everyone in here. We can have an actual civil discussion about all these things.

[Cee]

That's basically how some people seem to see him. He's their imaginary boyfriend and they will tolerate no negativity about him. 

 

This seems to happen in every fandom though. That segment is best left alone.

 

Problematic faves and all. I mean, I had an Anders friendmance and sent Hawke on the run with him.