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[Solas]

This was the exact reaction I expected from here when I actually noted Solas' flaws. Glad I don't even use Tumblr.

oh man I'm glad we pleasantly surprised you then I hope xD Love him hate him can't make up your mind or have neutral feels on the guy, everyone is welcome and everyones' opinions are welcome (incl. solas-critical opinions), so long as they're expressed politely (which 95% of the time they are!) it's all good

 

discussion thrives in this thread. 

[midnight tea]

This seems to happen in every fandom though. That segment is best left alone.

 

Yes... best locked in a room with fire-proof, metal door, IMO. Really, at this point I shouldn't be surprised that for some people the line between fantasy and fiction seems to be kinda blurry, but I never fail to be unnerved by it.

 

At this point I'm just glad that there are people who are totally cool about discussing all aspects of liked story or liked characters in a normal, civil fashion.

[RynJ]

Hah, I was just coming in here to shake my head at Tumblr, and look at the topic of discussion. 

 

Apparently I am now a bad fan because I acknowledge Solas haas flaws and that he may be morally grey and I just... can't even with Tumblr fandom right now. They're honestly kind of driving me away from wanting to create content and show it to them because I am 100% about character flaws and exploring them and seeing how they shape who a character is, and apparently that is bad. 

 

From what I gather of the Tumblr stuff, they're basically reacting to the Solas critical tag. And critical tags on Tumblr tend to be just raving haters. One can question exactly why they would look through a tag they know is like that and make themselves angry when they're so sensitive about this, but that's what they're talking about more than just normal fans who acknowledge that Solas has flaws.

 

All of this, to me, is a direct response to something very prevalent in Tumblr fandom in general: if a character does something bad or has "problematic" opinions of any kind, many people will tell you that it's not okay to like them. Because of this, the fans of that character go hard the other direction and try to pretend they have no flaws at all because according to much of Tumblr, that's the only way it's okay to like them. So everyone ends up getting massively defensive and fandom portrayals of characters override the real ones, especially when it's been a long time since there was canon content about that character. That or you have to bullet point list every single flaw to show that you know what they are every time you talk positively about that character. But that's that particular portion of Tumblr for ya. No matter what side you're on, you lose. 

[MayriyaNoori]

I rather enjoy reading and discussion about Solas' flaws. I think they are some of the most telling things as to what he thinks and the possibilities of what he is going to do next.

[drosophila]

oh man I'm glad we pleasantly surprised you then I hope xD Love him hate him can't make up your mind or have neutral feels on the guy, everyone is welcome and everyones' opinions are welcome (incl. solas-critical opinions), so long as they're expressed politely (which 95% of the time they are!) it's all good

 

discussion thrives in this thread. 

 

Solas would greatly approve of this thread

[Illyria]

It might be hated because this topic, like all character topics, is completely full of fans of that character. I'm one of those fans of Solas. But I said some rather negative things about him, so I expected anger.

 

I call him a gambler because he just can't cut his losses. He couldn't cut them after he screwed up with the god sealing, he couldn't after giving the orb to corphydicks (thought this one is at least understandable since at that point Coriphenus needed to be stopped) he couldn't after the orb was destroyed, and he couldn't after killing Mythal for good... I assume, anyway. The whole point of taking her power is that he's still going and refusing to cut losses. If he'd just stop, the failures would at least stop piling up. But no, after metaphorically putting himself in poverty and putting all his life savings into the slot machine he just has to empty out every last bit of money he has because he so desperately wants and needs to hit that jackpot.

 

We tend to be rather sensible around here.  We're not blind to his flaws because we love him.  In fact, I'm one of those people who will happily talk about all the flaws in my favourites *CoughCarverCough*

[Cee]

We tend to be rather sensible around here.  We're not blind to his flaws because we love him.  In fact, I'm one of those people who will happily talk about all the flaws in my favourites *CoughCarverCough*

 

I have already mentioned Anders.

[andy6915]

We tend to be rather sensible around here.  We're not blind to his flaws because we love him.  In fact, I'm one of those people who will happily talk about all the flaws in my favourites *CoughCarverCough*

 

I too greatly prefer Carver over Bethany and very much prefer his growth as a character to hers... Especially if you manage to pull off getting onto the friend path with him by meta gaming your ass off. And super especially if you make him a grey warden.

[midnight tea]

I rather enjoy reading and discussion about Solas' flaws. I think they are some of the most telling things as to what he thinks and the possibilities of what he is going to do next.

 

One of reasons why I like to discuss him I mean, he obviously is the key to figure out where the franchise may take us next, be it in terms of emotional or moral conflicts or the overall plot.

[drosophila]

We tend to be rather sensible around here.  We're not blind to his flaws because we love him.  In fact, I'm one of those people who will happily talk about all the flaws in my favourites *CoughCarverCough*

 

My favorite characters tend to be the most flawed ones. In fact, in the beginning of my first playthrough I disliked Solas, because I thought, "This guy is way too smart, he knows it, and I can't stand how he's always showing he's better than everyone, intentionally or not."  He became so fascinating only after I discovered he's made mistake after mistake, is keenly aware of it, and keeps going. 

[Ramification]

 

With regards to his thinking about trying over and over, well it's heartbreaking that the Inquisitor, especially one he loves, basically serves to lend his notion of dusting yourself off and trying and trying again until you get it right.

 

You know, this one:

 

 

But the Inquisitor's words can also mean to try and work with what you have, to make the best of it. But Solas has a blind spot.

 

In any case, Solas takes those words and interprets them as reinforcing his own beliefs, but remember conversations between Solas and Varric. Solas has a certain blindness and stubbornness with regards to the present. Even after waking from uthenera, he still spends a large part of his time in the Fade. He is fixated on elements of the past. He feels like he made mistakes and got things wrong but in the end, people endure, they adjusted, there is sadness and loss but there's also ways in which people move on, they endure, they're stubborn in figuring out how to live.

 

This is extremely telling:

 

• Varric: All the "fallen empire" crap you go on about. What's so great about empires anyway?
• Varric: So we lost the Deep Roads, and Orzammar's too proud to ask for help. So what? We're not Orzammar and we're not our empire.
• Varric: There are tens of thousands of us living up here in the sunlight now, and it's not that bad.
• Varric: Life goes on. It's just different than it used to be.
• Solas: And you have no concept of what that difference cost you.
• Varric: Oh I know what it didn't cost me. I'm still here, even after all those thaigs fell.
• Solas: You truly are content to sit in the sun, never wondering what you could've been, never fighting back?
• Varric: Ha, you've got it all wrong, Chuckles. This is fighting back.
• Solas: How does passively accepting your fate constitute a fight?
• Varric: In that story of yours—the fisherman watching the stars, dying alone—you thought he gave up right?
• Solas: Yes.
• Varric: But he went on living. He lost everyone, but he still got up every morning. He made a life, even if it was alone.
• Varric: That's the world. Everything you build, it tears down. Everything you've got, it takes—and it's gone forever.
• Varric: The only choices you get are to lie down and die or keep going. He kept going. That's as close to beating the world as anyone gets.
• Solas: Well said. Perhaps I was mistaken.

 

I love this banter. Can someone share the story of the fisherman they are referencing? I vaguely remember it. 

[Cee]

This is the one from earlier:

 

• Solas: Is there at least a movement to reunite Orzammar and Kal-Sharok?
• Varric: What is it with you, Chuckles? Why do you care so much about the dwarves?
• Solas: Once, in the Fade, I saw the memory of a man who lived alone on an island. Most of his tribe had fallen to beasts or disease. His wife had died in childbirth. He was the only one left. He could have struck out on his own to find a new land, new people. But he stayed. He spent every day catching fish in a little boat, every night drinking fermented fruit juice and watching the stars.
• Varric: I can think of worse lives.
• Solas: How can you be happy surrendering, knowing it will all end with you? How can you not fight?
• Varric: I suppose it depends on the quality of the fermented fruit juice.
• Solas: So it seems.

[Illyria]

Hah, I was just coming in here to shake my head at Tumblr, and look at the topic of discussion. 

 

Apparently I am now a bad fan because I acknowledge Solas haas flaws and that he may be morally grey and I just... can't even with Tumblr fandom right now. They're honestly kind of driving me away from wanting to create content and show it to them because I am 100% about character flaws and exploring them and seeing how they shape who a character is, and apparently that is bad. 

 

*sigh*

 

Oh Tumblr.  You're my problematic fav.

 

This seems to happen in every fandom though. That segment is best left alone.

 

Problematic faves and all. I mean, I had an Anders friendmance and sent Hawke on the run with him.

 

*hisses*

 

I too greatly prefer Carver over Bethany and very much prefer his growth as a character to hers... Especially if you manage to pull off getting onto the friend path with him by meta gaming your ass off. And super especially if you make him a grey warden.

 

Rival Warden!Carver for life.  With a purple Hawke I get the impression she's never trying to annoy him.  It's just their outlook on life is so different.  Plus, he's trying to keep a low profile in a the most anti-mage Free March state and she's making sarcastic comments to the Knight Captain about mage freedom.

[midnight tea]

Back to the topic... Anyone has a feeling that our favorite apostate hobo got a rather distinct 'reformed bad boy' vibe?

 

I wouldn't be surprised if during time of Fen'Harel's alleged rebellion, he had a rockstar-like status among the elvhen people xD

[drosophila]

Back to the topic... Anyone has a feeling that our favorite apostate hobo got a rather distinct 'reformed bad boy' vibe?

 

I wouldn't be surprised if during time of Fen'Harel's alleged rebellion, he had a rockstar-like status among the elvhen people xD

I see Blackwall as reformed. Solas is still bad to the bone

[Uirebhiril]

I see Blackwall as reformed. Solas is still bad to the bone

 

I have more of an issue with Blackwall than Solas, to be honest. I still hold with the feeling that he acts noble and does the right thing because that's how he wants to be seen, and maybe that's how he really wants to be - but he holds himself back from that by virtue of playing the part, rather than being the part. I don't see him as reformed at all. It does make him an interesting character, but certainly not one that has repented and learned from his actions. I'd love to see an arc with him that explores that idea, but it's just my interpretation and probably not the story he's meant to follow.

 

We still have to wait and see as far as Solas is concerned.

[midnight tea]

I see Blackwall as reformed. Solas is still bad to the bone

 

I don't mean he's entirely reformed What I mean is that he seems to be a textbook example of a dynamic character. He's someone who learned a hard lesson from life and changed himself throughout... even if his journey isn't yet over.

 

Hence I suspect he might have been much 'wilder' in the past, which eventually contributed to first crisis. He even admits to being "hot-blooded and cocky, always ready to fight" in his youth as well and - like I said earlier - he admits to Varric that 'he's not much of a gambler anymore', which means that there were times when he was way more of a risk-taker.

 

It might also explain why he has such allergic reaction to Sera - for all the differences between them, there are also pretty significant similarities. I think Solas might not be very fond of her because she may remind him of himself from the past - obviously, I don't think he was ever as ditzy or random, but likely was way more idealistic, spontaneous and fond of taking risks or thought of the world as simpler than it was.

 

I also wouldn't be surprised if he was popular with the ladies - he's way too smooth and comfortable with flirting for someone who's apparently been so sheltered most of his life. Probably ate young elvhen maiden hearts for breakfast. Might be even that his popularity among the people he led made him even more careless and prideful, which eventually led to his downfall. He seems to admit it when he (almost tearfully ) tells Cole that what he did was "A mistake. One of many made by a much younger elf who was certain he knew everything".

[midnight tea]

I have more of an issue with Blackwall than Solas, to be honest. I still hold with the feeling that he acts noble and does the right thing because that's how he wants to be seen, and maybe that's how he really wants to be - but he holds himself back from that by virtue of playing the part, rather than being the part. I don't see him as reformed at all. It does make him an interesting character, but certainly not one that has repented and learned from his actions. I'd love to see an arc with him that explores that idea, but it's just my interpretation and probably not the story he's meant to follow.

 

Well no, he only grows to actually repent for what he did during the course of the playthrough (that is, if IQ inspires them enough to confront their past and their deception). Makes me wonder what else they have stored for him on his road to redemption... or at least I hope we'll get something for him in the DLC, just like we'd hopefully get something for any other companion.

[Uirebhiril]

Well no, he only grows to actually repent for what he did during the course of the playthrough (that is, if IQ inspires them enough to confront their past and their deception). Makes me wonder what else they have stored for him on his road to redemption... or at least I hope we'll get something for him in the DLC, just like we'd hopefully get something for any other companion.

 

Even with turning himself in, it still felt like Blackwall was doing it to "do what was right," not because he felt that it was the right thing to do. If that makes sense. It would be interesting to explore him more as a character, but not sure how much chance we'll get for that. If the expansion/DLC we get is big enough, it might include arcs for each of the companions. I'd really like that since you can never have enough interaction, and this crew is a hell of a grab bag of motivations and beliefs and issues. Just think of the stories we can have.

[drosophila]

I don't mean he's entirely reformed What I mean is that he seems to be a textbook example of a dynamic character. He's someone who learned a hard lesson from life.

 

Hence I suspect he might have been much 'wilder' in the past, which eventually contributed to first crisis. He even admits to being "hot-blooded and cocky, always ready to fight" in his youth as well and - like I said earlier - he admits to Varric that 'he's not much of a gambler anymore', which means that there were times when he was way more of a risk-taker.

 

It might also explain why he has such allergic reaction to Sera - for all the differences between them, there are also pretty significant similarities. I think Solas might not be very fond of her because she may remind him of himself from the past - obviously, I don't think he was ever as ditzy or random, but likely was way more idealistic, spontaneous and fond of taking risks or thought of the world as simpler than it was.

 

I also wouldn't be surprised if he was popular with the ladies - he's way too smooth and comfortable with flirting for someone who's apparently been so sheltered most of his life. Probably ate young elvhen maiden hearts for breakfast. Might be even that his popularity among the people he led made him even more careless and prideful, which eventually led to his downfall. He seems to admit it when he (almost tearfully ) admits to Cole that what he did was "A mistake. One of many made by a much younger elf who was certain he knew everything".

 

No doubt in my mind that he was extremely popular with the ladies. And he still would be if he wanted to focus on that. 

 

I do imagine him being wild, hot-blooded, and popular among the people in the past. I'm not sure if he led an organized movement though, even one of rebellion. He seems more the type to act solo and and at times even disapproves when the Inquisitor relies on team work. I imagine if he ever overturned an establishment, it was through infiltrating in an organization and carefully and methodically pulling the strings to achieve the outcome he wanted ... at least in the short term. 

 

Also I'm not sure if he had a "downfall". The way I interpreted it was that he actually achieved what he was planning. Otherwise, why would he go to sleep instead of keep trying? But when he woke up, the outcome of his victory was not what he anticipated. 

[midnight tea]

Even with turning himself in, it still felt like Blackwall was doing it to "do what was right," not because he felt that it was the right thing to do. If that makes sense. It would be interesting to explore him more as a character, but not sure how much chance we'll get for that. If the expansion/DLC we get is big enough, it might include arcs for each of the companions. I'd really like that since you can never have enough interaction, and this crew is a hell of a grab bag of motivations and beliefs and issues. Just think of the stories we can have.

 

I think the reason for it is that Thom Rainier doesn't believe in himself at all - he likely thinks he's too much of a scum to being able to do something right, hence he only can do something "Blackwall-ish" or inspired by (competent) Inquisitor.

 

I quite like is final scene right before Corypheus fight (if we've picked the right option for him and let him join Inquisition as Rainier) when it's shown that he still doesn't think much of himself, but that he starts to believe that he's not beyond redemption.... Uh, I really, really wish they've got something in store for him and the rest. I totally agree that there are so many interesting stories - or arc completions - to be had!

[drosophila]

 

 

I also wouldn't be surprised if he was popular with the ladies - he's way too smooth and comfortable with flirting for someone who's apparently been so sheltered most of his life. Probably ate young elvhen maiden hearts for breakfast. Might be even that his popularity among the people he led made him even more careless and prideful, which eventually led to his downfall. He seems to admit it when he (almost tearfully ) tells Cole that what he did was "A mistake. One of many made by a much younger elf who was certain he knew everything".

 

Going on a tangent, it just occurred to me that this might be why he had so much difficulty resisting Lavellan, even if he knew it was wrong to pursue a relationship with her. If you think of it, one moment he has unlimited female attention, then the next he wakes up and he is a hermit with a pretty bad reputation (either an elven apostate or Fen'Harel don't exactly have a desirable status at present days). He himself admits, "It's been a long time." And then Lavellan actually takes an interest in him. Of course he would feel this is very special. 

[midnight tea]

No doubt in my mind that he was extremely popular with the ladies. And he still would be if he wanted to focus on that. 

 

I do imagine him being wild, hot-blooded, and popular among the people in the past. I'm not sure if he led an organized movement though, even one of rebellion. He seems more the type to act solo and and at times even disapproves when the Inquisitor relies on team work. I imagine if he ever overturned an establishment, it was through infiltrating in an organization and carefully and methodically pulling the strings to achieve the outcome he wanted ... at least in the short term. 

 

Also I'm not sure if he had a "downfall". The way I interpreted it was that he actually achieved what he was planning. Otherwise, why would he go to sleep instead of keep trying? But when he woke up, the outcome of his victory was not what he anticipated. 

 

I was so surprised when I first decided to romance him with my mage elf - I was all like "goddamnit, where's this confidence coming from?" It's such a stark contrast to, say, Cullen's romance.

 

Anyway - I see him as a person who does what's necessary, so whether he likes leading or not, he'd step up if the situation demanded it. In any case, he might have been either a formal or informal leader of some sort. While he appears to be a 'lone-wolf' type, his desire for solitude and working alone now seems to be dictated by him losing faith in other people. There was some severe betrayal that happened at some point - one that shook him to the core and kinda broke him. I don't think he ever got over it.

 

As for downfall... well, there rather obviously was one. Even if he didn't think what he did would backfire so badly in the long term, I don't think he went to sleep simply because "the job was done" or he achieved his goal. Something else happened - we know that Mythal got murdered, we know (if we read ancient elven texts in temple of Mythal written by Abelas) that many elder ancient elves entered uthenera after it happened, basically abandoning younger generation of elves. It might have been that the situation was so bad, the the only thing that he was able to do was to wait and wake up when things settled or opportunity arose for him to finish what he started.

[drosophila]

 

As for downfall... well, there rather obviously was one. Even if he didn't think what he did would backfire so badly in the long term, I don't think he went to sleep simply because "the job was done" or he achieved his goal. Something else happened - we know that Mythal got murdered, we know (if we read ancient elven texts in temple of Mythal written by Abelas) that many elder ancient elves entered uthenera after it happened, basically abandoning younger generation of elves. It might have been that the situation was so bad, the the only thing that he was able to do was to wait and wake up when things settled or opportunity arose for him to finish what he started.

 

Interesting, I didn't think of it like this... But it's sound, it might well be the case.

[Sah291]

I don't mean he's entirely reformed What I mean is that he seems to be a textbook example of a dynamic character. He's someone who learned a hard lesson from life and changed himself throughout... even if his journey isn't yet over.
 
Hence I suspect he might have been much 'wilder' in the past, which eventually contributed to first crisis. He even admits to being "hot-blooded and cocky, always ready to fight" in his youth as well and - like I said earlier - he admits to Varric that 'he's not much of a gambler anymore', which means that there were times when he was way more of a risk-taker.
 
It might also explain why he has such allergic reaction to Sera - for all the differences between them, there are also pretty significant similarities. I think Solas might not be very fond of her because she may remind him of himself from the past - obviously, I don't think he was ever as ditzy or random, but likely was way more idealistic, spontaneous and fond of taking risks or thought of the world as simpler than it was.
 
I also wouldn't be surprised if he was popular with the ladies - he's way too smooth and comfortable with flirting for someone who's apparently been so sheltered most of his life. Probably ate young elvhen maiden hearts for breakfast. Might be even that his popularity among the people he led made him even more careless and prideful, which eventually led to his downfall. He seems to admit it when he (almost tearfully ) tells Cole that what he did was "A mistake. One of many made by a much younger elf who was certain he knew everything".

Yes I agree.

I sort of imagine a young Solas to be kind of like Hawke in a way. Somebody very charismatic that rose up as a folk hero, but was either betrayed, or did the betraying himself, or a little of both. He did something he thought would be saving his people, but then had a rude awakening when it didn't turn out the way he hoped. Solas is jaded after so many years of failed causes, betrayals, etc. Nothing he builds lasts, and I see a lot of that in his banter with Varric. They seemed to be picking up on those sorts of themes with his character anyway. Speaking of which, anyone notice Varric gives him the same nickname he gives sarcastic Hawke?