153434 réponses à ce sujet

[Gwyvian]

I think back before Origins came out, Gaider and company listed Wheel of Time as one of their influences, along with Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings, and Buffy the Vampire Slayer. (Where is my Wesley, Bioware?  I want my Wesley.) The Qunari definitely remind me of the Seanchan, though the Seanchan needed those weird insect armor designs to appear alien. The fact that Jordan said they all spoke with heavy Texan accents was kind of strange, though. 

I think the Seanchan are a bit more intimidating, as they actually do have a continental empire across the sea that will send them reinforcements, and they're still in their expansion period. The visions in the last few books of the future of the Seanchan was also creepy as hell.

The part about the Qunari that fascinates me and horrifies me equally is what you mentioned. That the saarebaas is at ease with his position. That the Arishok is insulted that he should compliment the saarebaas for 'doing what the Qun demanded of him'. 

My fiance is tearing her way through the series for the first time, actually.

Massive Wheel of Time spoilers, because I have to rant:

Spoiler

She's a very intelligent woman, much more so than I am. But that still ddoesn't explain her goddamn eerie ability to predict things in this goddamn series.
It was around Book 4 that she started speculating that Verin was Black Ajah. By Book 10, she revised it to Verin having been forced into the Black Ajah. Just the other day she informed me she was gleefully shipping Thom and Moiriaine. She predicted Lan and Nyneave marrying back in Book One. She's predicted almost all of the major deaths, except she thinks that Rand is gonna die for sure. If it wasn't for that last one, I'd be sure she was playing a prank on me and looking things up.

Then one time she managed to pressure me into revealing the whole Slayer backstory thing. Except as she was pestering me about it, she figured it out on her own.    

 

I'm convinced this was the case. There are way too many parallels for this not to be the case. Either that, or Gaider is Jordan's parallel universe reincarnation in some weird way I will explain with quantum physics one day when I decide to put my mind to it.

 

That instance of the saarebas not just accepting his fate but actually lecturing you on why what you did was wrong, if you tried to help him, that struck a lightning bolt in my head about damane for sure.

 

Oh, first time WoT!   Good on her. I've been in a loop-read/listen ever since I finished it, meaning that every time I reached the latest book I had I would start over and I've been literally doing that for years now. (I am not obsessed. Just... slightly... fixated.)

 

I can't really picture the Texan accent, but then, I've been listening to WoT on audiobook for the past couple hundred reads, so I have Michael Kramer's and Kate Reading's interpretations of the accents firmly as canon (which is an amusingly choked slur that somehow makes sense to me, haha). I agree that the Seanchan are more intimidating - not even just for their overall strength but the speed with which they conquer and the absoluteness of their presence, you blink twice and everything is firmly in their grasp, period. I don't see that in the qunari, but then, we don't get that much content on them, so I'll withhold judgment about their scariness until we get a more involved story concerning them or territories held/contested by them.

 

As to predictions...

 

Spoiler

I was pretty sure that Verin was Black Ajah from the second book onward and I kept expecting that to be revealed, only time kept passing and it never came up, so I was lulled for a while. Then when she was doing her little compulsion experiment on the captured sisters in the Aiel camp I knew. She was Black Ajah, but not in the same way as other Black Ajah - still, her reveal sent delighted shivers down my spine when I read it and it only really made sense then. I couldn't say what tipped me off exactly, only that Verin seemed to know too many things and there was always something slightly off about her, even though - somewhat counter-intuitively - I still trusted her.

I admit I never saw Moiraine and Thom coming at all   I was pretty much wholly with Mat on that revelation, but Lan and Nynaeve on the other hand, that's the kind of romance that you just have to fulfill. Besides, I was certain that Nynaeve could and would do literally anything to make that happen and I wasn't disappointed. I cannot express how incredibly pleased I was with their subplot by the end of AMoL.

Slayer was quite interesting, though it took me a few reads before I started piecing together his entire story what with the prophecies and all, though it all makes sense. I mean, I realized who he was, just not all of who he was, if that makes any sense.

Actually, now that I think back on it, (regarding Verin) I think it was when she told Ingtar and co. that Moiraine sent her... and I somehow knew that she did no such thing, exactly because she and Siuan had discussed that she was pretending not to have an interest in Rand whatsoever in order to allay his suspicions, and it seemed like an amateur move on Moiraine's part to send a sister to follow him around; not the kind of mistake I associate with Moiraine even at her clumsiest (if such instances even exist). And other, small things, I always thought in the back of my mind that the only explanation for Verin is that she is somehow Black Ajah without being so, which never made sense to me until at the last it all clicked together.

[laurelinvanyar]

She is.

And my absolute favorite thing about the Qunari is that the Tal-Vashoth that are constantly waging war in the corners of their little empire? Their violence is a direct product of the Qun, but that violence also strengthens the Qunari's belief that, without the Qun, they are savages. It's a delightfully ironic (and bloody) twist. That the rebels against the Qun are still following the Qun just blows my mind. (This of course doesn't include the bakers and florists who, quite calmly, leave the jungles and set up shop somewhere south.) 

The tamrassran sexual services bit reminds me of the holy prostitutes you'd see in Antiquity. And it's a bit disconcerting. On the bright side, the revelation of just how much the Qunari do not equate love with sex means that my headcanon Aeducan/Sten romance is a bit more realistic. 

Wheel of Time spoilers.

Spoiler

I didn't see Verin coming either.
I always thought she was the one Aes Sedai with her head screwed on straight. Well, y'know, she still was, it was just a lot more complicated...
But goddamn. If that isn't the way one of the most composed, vindicated deaths I've ever seen in fiction.

 

 

Oh my god, this so much. I was sort of taken aback when Bull mentioned that bit. Like... the concept that the tamassrans have to do this and don't even get to choose it just makes my skin crawl. 

 

I'm not a fan of all the retcons of Qunari culture in DAI. 

Sten for LI 2015!!!!! Now that I know what "kadan" means.....argh my heart. I mostly blame Lizasaurus and electricfish. 

 

It really bothers me that we're supposed to see Iron Bull and go "Wow. Look how tolerant and chill the qunari are. Look how open and honest he is! He even told me he's a spy! Look how comfortable they are with sexuality! Look how progressive they can be!"

 

Umm...hello? Bull flat out tells you he's going to send info back to Par Vollen, and by just being there the qunari are taking an unofficial stake in the budding world power that is your inquisition. They feed you dribbles of info through Bull. What is Bull giving them? Troop movements? Psychological profiles of all the major players of the inquisition? All things that are bad news bears in the hands of a potential enemy. Even without the info Bull sends back, just being involved is a huge PR coup. 

 

And Bull is not enlightened. Or progressive. Or promoting sexual freedom. He sees nothing wrong with the qunari breeding programs, the mindwashing, any of it. If he turns Tal'Vashoth, it's only because he chose his friends over his philosophy. 

 

Sorry about the rant. Holy Spaceballs, I just can't stand the qunari. I hope Par Vollen and Tevinter just take each other out at this point. 

[Cee]

Have real world writing work to finish. What does one actually do, but poke at and edit/write Solavellan fics?

[Gwyvian]

1. Holy cow. Your fiancee is amazing.

Spoiler

I didn't see the Verin thing until it hit me in the feels.

 

2. I'm not sure the Qunari can physically control their Saarebas the way the damane are controlled via ter'angreal. The Arvaraad had a rod thingy, but I don't think it did much beyond stunning the poor saarebas. Seanchan has had several slave AND noble uprisings. That's what you get for promoting the most ruthless schemers in a "survival of the fittest" mentality. The control of the largest damane population is probably the only thing keeping the imperial family in power. 

 

3. Can I talk about something that really bothers me? Like really REALLY bothers me? We learn a lot about the Qun from Bull. First we learn that you don't get to pick your job. Then we learn that one occupation a qunari can have is to sexually pleasure other qunari. Even if the qunari don't equate sex with love or intimacy, even if the tamassrans are 100% ok with their job (and I can't imagine all of them are), the lack of consent in this equation really freaks me out. ESPECIALLY since, like the saarebas, they probably see this as perfectly natural and if they don't they just get brainwashed and AARRRGHGHGGHGHGH. 

 

That rod thing is mighty suspicious, though. I mean, I'm guessing they regularly shock the saarebas with it, yet when you speak to that one in DAII, he seems like he doesn't really need the pain treatment to make him do things, he is a willing prisoner, so to speak, so then what is its purpose beyond initial training? Clearly that guy was completely indoctrinated already, so why then? Sure, we can say that they just use it as a goad and don't trust that the saarebas knows what to do or that they're willing to perform, but that leads me to the question about how he got indoctrinated in the first place. Sure, cultural context explains some of it. Like women who can channel "walking up to sul'dam and demanding to become damane" as Tuon illustrates optimistically, yet it's unrealistic to imagine that not a single one of them rebelled at the prospect of having their mouths/eyes sewn up with a promise of pain and misery to be their lives thereafter - then that leads me to the indoctrination methods they use that we know of, the "reeducation," but if they do that, then why the goad? Do they not trust their own methods when it comes to saarebas? Am I nitpicking this question way too much when I should be working? Yes. I know this.   Still, the stick is suspicious. I'm sure it has to have at least some kind of quality that's reminiscent of the a'dam.

 

As to the third point - the qunari definitely are creepy. I think part of their problem is that they have a "perfect" social structure, a concept which we know is already inherently flawed before it is even attempted in practice. The Qun already struggles against the natural order of "where there is light, there is a shadow" which means that the Qun cannot exist without its antithesis, i.e. it is doomed to an eternal struggle. The fact that it precludes individual growth and expansion of ideas that do not conform with the "norms" (the entirety of the Qun is a somewhat grotesque gross representation of society's tendencies towards normalization) is actually perfectly like the Borg in this case, and just as with the Borg, it is their single largest flaw. Which is why Bull being crushed and left empty after his big decision is so significant - and I really wish I could share my article already that summarizes my thoughts on this so well, but that'll have to wait.

[Garnet]

Sten for LI 2015!!!!! Now that I know what "kadan" means.....argh my heart. I mostly blame Lizasaurus and electricfish. 

 

It really bothers me that we're supposed to see Iron Bull and go "Wow. Look how tolerant and chill the qunari are. Look how open and honest he is! He even told me he's a spy! Look how comfortable they are with sexuality! Look how progressive they can be!"

 

Umm...hello? Bull flat out tells you he's going to send info back to Par Vollen, and by just being there the qunari are taking an unofficial stake in the budding world power that is your inquisition. They feed you dribbles of info through Bull. What is Bull giving them? Troop movements? Psychological profiles of all the major players of the inquisition? All things that are bad news bears in the hands of a potential enemy. Even without the info Bull sends back, just being involved is a huge PR coup. 

 

And Bull is not enlightened. Or progressive. Or promoting sexual freedom. He sees nothing wrong with the qunari breeding programs, the mindwashing, any of it. If he turns Tal'Vashoth, it's only because he chose his friends over his philosophy. 

 

Sorry about the rant. Holy Spaceballs, I just can't stand the qunari. I hope Par Vollen and Tevinter just take each other out at this point. 

 

I get the feeling that's why they sent Bull. He's very personable. You just can't not like the guy. (At least I can't, but I adore FPJ. ) I don't agree with his views on a lot of things, but he himself seems to have broken away from Qunari social norms. Especially if he's a Tal Vashoth. I let the Chargers die one play through because I'm a monster and I feel like he's so much better off being a Tal Vashoth. He seems happier like, "Thank goodness that life is behind me now." Now he can be a pariah like his boyfriend. (Adoribull is just too darn cute.)

 

Also, I just started reading the WOT series. Yay!

[Caddius]

I'm reminded of Weekes interview about Bull.

It went something like, 

Q: So why are the Qunari interested in the Inquisition? Why send Bull?

A: Well, the Qunari, generally speaking, are interested in securing and controlling magic, preventing horrible accidents. Demons raining out of the hole in the sky is pretty much their definition of 'unsecured, uncontrolled, horribad magic'. 

 I think he was a bit more eloquent than that. But I just pictured Sten-Arishok's exasperation with the South. 

Here's hoping we see him in the next DLC. 

[electricfish]

<snip>

 

One thing I'd like to point out with that rod in DA 2 is that in the context of that quest, it seems to allow the saarebas to speak normally to Hawke. He only spoke in grunts and growls before then (how the other Qunari could understand the meaning I have no idea), and it's only after getting blasted with the rod does he speak words.  It likely interacts with the collar in some way. Maybe like disarming a shock collar?

 

Saarebas normally have their mouths sewn 99% shut and their tongues cut, but to be extra sure a demon doesn't "ride their words" it would be safest if there was a method to prevent speech entirely. A shock collar that immediately discharges based on the vibration of the throat would be most useful, and as minimally magical as possible. If the Qunari have learned anything of rune crafting, special symbols of enchantment could also be used for the express purpose of controlling their mages.

[laurelinvanyar]

I get the feeling that's why they sent Bull. He's very personable. You just can't not like the guy. (At least I can't, but I adore FPJ. ) I don't agree with his views on a lot of things, but he himself seems to have broken away from Qunari social norms. Especially if he's a Tal Vashoth. I let the Chargers die one play through because I'm a monster and I feel like he's so much better off being a Tal Vashoth. He seems happier like, "Thank goodness that life is behind me now." Now he can be a pariah like his boyfriend. (Adoribull is just too darn cute.)

 

Also, I just started reading the WOT series. Yay!

It's exactly the reason they send Bull. Which is sort of sinister. "Hey, let's send you this guy who is super friendly/open about him being a spy. That way you hopefully let your guard down because he knows how to fit in socially with the rest of Thedas."

 

Bull having broken partly away from the Qun actually makes him a great candidate for this spy position. The Ben'Hassrath know if they don't move him away from Seheron, he will snap. In this way they get an ideal spy while salvaging a useful asset. 

 

I do like Bull. I think he's a nice guy. I appreciate that he understands the Qun is difficult for outsiders to grasp. I even trust him. I just don't trust the people who sent him. The whole dreadnought quest felt like one big set up, though I'm willing to attribute that to bad writing. I see his defection a bit differently than you do. To me, he doesn't leave the Qun because he thinks the philosophy is wrong. He just values the lives of his men more. Faced with life without the Qun, he's afraid of living without it, of going savage like other Tal'Vashoth. 

[Caddius]

So a question about the Qunari:

They've mostly been sitting in Par Vollen, fighting Tal-Vashoth everywhere, and Tevinter and Tal-Vashoth and Fog Warriors and seditious parrots in Seheron. Sten sees another invasion of Thedas as inevitable, the Arishok just wanted to get home, and Iron Bull states that they aren't really paying attention to the 'war' with Tevinter.

My question is, what are the waiting for?

It used to be my theory that they were waiting for reinforcements from the homeland. Now it's evident that they were exiled from the kossith, or left voluntarily. No ships are coming for them. Are they just waiting for the situation to degrade so that they can seize defensible mainland territories without an Exalted March hitting them?

If so, I think the Reconstruction after the Venatori situation is an ideal time to hit Tevinter, if not the rest of the continent. Still doesn't explain the centuries of waiting. I mean, it seems like they're struggling to even keep Seheron under control. (I'll admit that a jungle island with that many factions is almost impossible to control.)

 

Also, this map business makes me long for a Total War title or mod for Dragon Age. There's a Crusader Kings 2 one sort of in the works, but no movement towards DA.

[lynroy]

Qunari armor really doesn't do wonders for Solas' figure. xD

I'd love to see my Lavellan wearing it though.

Screenshots of the Qunari armor for those who haven't seen it already.

SOURCE

Spoiler

What the Hell? Kill it with fire!

[Gwyvian]

One thing I'd like to point out with that rod in DA 2 is that in the context of that quest, it seems to allow the saarebas to speak normally to Hawke. He only spoke in grunts and growls before then (how the other Qunari could understand the meaning I have no idea), and it's only after getting blasted with the rod does he speak words.  It likely interacts with the collar in some way. Maybe like disarming a shock collar?

 

Saarebas normally have their mouths sewn 99% shut and their tongues cut, but to be extra sure a demon doesn't "ride their words" it would be safest if there was a method to prevent speech entirely. A shock collar that immediately discharges based on the vibration of the throat would be most useful, and as minimally magical as possible. If the Qunari have learned anything of rune crafting, special symbols of enchantment could also be used for the express purpose of controlling their mages.

 

Hmm, yes. See, that always seemed odd to me, that little speech scene. It makes sense, this explanation, there is some correlation here, i.e. that rod is more than just a goad, otherwise there would be no real distinction between the saarebas' before and after. True, it seems like a one-off ability when he is released, but the fact that it can happen at all...

[Garnet]

It's exactly the reason they send Bull. Which is sort of sinister. "Hey, let's send you this guy who is super friendly/open about him being a spy. That way you hopefully let your guard down because he knows how to fit in socially with the rest of Thedas."

 

Bull having broken partly away from the Qun actually makes him a great candidate for this spy position. The Ben'Hassrath know if they don't move him away from Seheron, he will snap. In this way they get an ideal spy while salvaging a useful asset. 

 

I do like Bull. I think he's a nice guy. I appreciate that he understands the Qun is difficult for outsiders to grasp. I even trust him. I just don't trust the people who sent him. The whole dreadnought quest felt like one big set up, though I'm willing to attribute that to bad writing. I see his defection a bit differently than you do. To me, he doesn't leave the Qun because he thinks the philosophy is wrong. He just values the lives of his men more. Faced with life without the Qun, he's afraid of living without it, of going savage like other Tal'Vashoth. 

 

No, I agree with this. I just think in the end, eventually, he's happier having left that life behind him. He's not happy about being an outcast and he has a lot of disdain for the Tal'Vashoth but he himself says it doesn't bother him as much as it should. Or something like that. I'm just not good with expressing my thoughts. I'm trying to get better at it. :x

[Caddius]

Hmm, yes. See, that always seemed odd to me, that little speech scene. It makes sense, this explanation, there is some correlation here, i.e. that rod is more than just a goad, otherwise there would be no real distinction between the saarebas' before and after. True, it seems like a one-off ability when he is released, but the fact that it can happen at all...

"Qunlat, tamrassran-lover! Do you speak it?! Say 'Arrghblarrgle!' again, I dare you!"

[laurelinvanyar]

So a question about the Qunari:

They've mostly been sitting in Par Vollen, fighting Tal-Vashoth everywhere, and Tevinter and Tal-Vashoth and Fog Warriors and seditious parrots in Seheron. Sten sees another invasion of Thedas as inevitable, the Arishok just wanted to get home, and Iron Bull states that they aren't really paying attention to the 'war' with Tevinter.

My question is, what are the waiting for?

It used to be my theory that they were waiting for reinforcements from the homeland. Now it's evident that they were exiled from the kossith, or left voluntarily. No ships are coming for them. Are they just waiting for the situation to degrade so that they can seize defensible mainland territories without an Exalted March hitting them?

If so, I think the Reconstruction after the Venatori situation is an ideal time to hit Tevinter, if not the rest of the continent. Still doesn't explain the centuries of waiting. I mean, it seems like they're struggling to even keep Seheron under control. (I'll admit that a jungle island with that many factions is almost impossible to control.)

 

Also, this map business makes me long for a Total War title or mod for Dragon Age. There's a Crusader Kings 2 one sort of in the works, but no movement towards DA.

My best guess? They've been gathering information and setting up agents throughout the south. My biggest regret in DA2 was that Hawke didn't have the opportunity to shank Tallis, take that list of spies, and clean out Kirkwall. "Hmm...oh it's totally fine that the society that almost conquered my home has agents everywhere. I'll just let them continue to feed info to the people that almost destroyed the city. Derp."

 

The qunari are probably playing the long game. If they attack Tevinter in earnest, it's possible they will face a somewhat unified south with BOTH divines calling exalted marches. Better to wait until the south is weakened, then seize Tevinter. Let that sit for a while, solidify your holdings, continue to gather information/quietly provoke civil unrest in neighboring countries. Wait for another opportunity then seize another country, probably Nevarra. Rinse and repeat. 

 

We've heard the DLC survey about a qunari invasion. Right now the Inquisition is the only political power capable of rallying the entire south. And Tevinter is weakened and not in favor with the rest of the world. It's possible they're willing to gamble on the general ill-will tevinter has earned throughout DAI combined with the instability elsewhere. 

 

As for Seheron, I don't really know how many resources the qunari have put toward the fight there. Seheron makes a good launching pad for a tevinter invasion, which is why the Vints are certainly fighting hard to gain it back. It could be they're just putting up a token resistance, keeping their finger in the pie so to speak. So long as they have a toe-hold on Seheron, they can probably sweep the island when they actually need it for that launching pad. 

[Gwyvian]

So a question about the Qunari:

They've mostly been sitting in Par Vollen, fighting Tal-Vashoth everywhere, and Tevinter and Tal-Vashoth and Fog Warriors and seditious parrots in Seheron. Sten sees another invasion of Thedas as inevitable, the Arishok just wanted to get home, and Iron Bull states that they aren't really paying attention to the 'war' with Tevinter.

My question is, what are the waiting for?

It used to be my theory that they were waiting for reinforcements from the homeland. Now it's evident that they were exiled from the kossith, or left voluntarily. No ships are coming for them. Are they just waiting for the situation to degrade so that they can seize defensible mainland territories without an Exalted March hitting them?

If so, I think the Reconstruction after the Venatori situation is an ideal time to hit Tevinter, if not the rest of the continent. Still doesn't explain the centuries of waiting. I mean, it seems like they're struggling to even keep Seheron under control. (I'll admit that a jungle island with that many factions is almost impossible to control.)

 

Also, this map business makes me long for a Total War title or mod for Dragon Age. There's a Crusader Kings 2 one sort of in the works, but no movement towards DA.

 

To me it seems a bit like a Daenerys situation. She's going, going, going and then just stops, starts to scramble, scrambles even more and suddenly her hands are full with actually ruling - i.e. I think that this is the major difference between ruling and conquering, and it boils down to the single reason why empires built on conquest require constant expansion to last for very long. If there is no enemy outside, then they start to consume themselves and I think that's what happened here, the qunari got complacent to a degree, the Tal-Vashoth started rearing their heads and the war with Tevinter got relegated into a sloppy series of skirmishes. In short, they have no idea that they are being consumed from the inside but that consumption is very distracting and time-consuming. It's like scheduling almost anything in a workday, it starts out regulated and then suddenly you realize that there simply isn't time enough for anything unless you viciously rip out an hour or two from here and there, consequences be damned (and then you feel so much better when you do even if some things fall apart). I need to work on that metaphor.

[laurelinvanyar]

No, I agree with this. I just think in the end, eventually, he's happier having left that life behind him. He's not happy about being an outcast and he has a lot of disdain for the Tal'Vashoth but he himself says it doesn't bother him as much as it should. Or something like that. I'm just not good with expressing my thoughts. I'm trying to get better at it. :x

Hey now! You're expressing yourself just fine!

 

Anyway, sorry for the qunari conspiracy theories folks. You caught me mid-Adaar headspace. XD

[Caddius]

Excellent points. (As usual from you two. )

So another question popped into my head. The Qunari arrived as an invasion fleet. There's something incongruous about them being that organized and numerous without having had an established nation beforehand. In which case, what the devil did the kossith do to drive them off? I guess I'm just trying to wrap my head around the logistics of it?

Gwyvian, I'm reminded of how the Nazi economy was propped up by plundering their neighbors, and how desperate the regime was to maintain the illusion of German economic prosperity. So they kept on pushing. Same with Rome, but over a much longer time-scale because Romans>Nazis. The Roman model of government was designed for navigating the various tribes of Latium, then of mainland Italia. It was decidedly not equipped for the empire spanning the Mare Nostrum they almost accidentally acquired. The Republic evolves, spasms, and then you get the years of the Principate and the Empire. Even then, the government evolves, with administration split into halves and quarters, civil wars, a change of religion, remodeled taxation and armies, collapse of trade, funny hats.

I don't think the Qunari have undergone that kind of change. It's almost like they're content to perfect the operation of the Qun within Par Vollen and Seheron, and get really good at fighting as much as recruiting. Then yeah, they'll pounce.

So the GIMP thing is kind of a pain.  So many buttons. 

[laurelinvanyar]

Excellent points. (As usual from you two. )

So another question popped into my head. The Qunari arrived as an invasion fleet. There's something incongruous about them being that organized and numerous without having had an established nation beforehand. In which case, what the devil did the kossith do to drive them off? I guess I'm just trying to wrap my head around the logistics of it?

Gwyvian, I'm reminded of how the Nazi economy was propped up by plundering their neighbors, and how desperate the regime was to maintain the illusion of German economic prosperity. So they kept on pushing. Same with Rome, but over a much longer time-scale because Romans>Nazis. The Roman model of government was designed for navigating the various tribes of Latium, then of mainland Italia. It was decidedly not equipped for the empire spanning the Mare Nostrum they almost accidentally acquired. The Republic evolves, spasms, and then you get the years of the Principate and the Empire. Even then, the government evolves, with administration split into halves and quarters, civil wars, a change of religion, remodeled taxation and armies, collapse of trade, funny hats.

I don't think the Qunari have undergone that kind of change. It's almost like they're content to perfect the operation of the Qun within Par Vollen and Seheron, and get really good at fighting as much as recruiting. Then yeah, they'll pounce.

So the GIMP thing is kind of a pain.  So many buttons. 

The Qunari also have the benefit of Qamek. The Romans tied their conquests to the empire by adapting the religions of the conquered. The Qunari can re-educate or just drug up those that don't submit. And many will submit when they realize they can keep their comfortable lives, for the most part. The people who stand to lose the most are mages and the nobility, who would have been leashed and killed off respectively anyway.

 

Combine that with the Ben'Hassrath's internal surveillance and...

[Caddius]

The Qunari also have the benefit of Qamek. The Romans tied their conquests to the empire by adapting the religions of the conquered. The Qunari can re-educate or just drug up those that don't submit. And many will submit when they realize they can keep their comfortable lives, for the most part. The people who stand to lose the most are mages and the nobility, who would have been leashed and killed off respectively anyway.

 

Combine that with the Ben'Hassrath's internal surveillance and...

In that beautiful, hypothetical world of the Total War: Dragon Age I am torn between playing the Qunari and the Tevinter Imperium.

Roman Sorcerers against Ox-Borg. Winner takes the Nocen Sea.

 

Qamek is terrifying. 

[Siha]

I have actual and significant issues with Cullen's character(and the writing) and am happy to discuss them in good faith

 

Not true. I never got that PM from you explaining your opinion. Or about the mage/Templar issue. And don't you ******* dare say I couldn't ******* discuss that **** in good ******* faith, you ******** ****** ******.   

 

Also, unless I missed it, they have to repurchase the game as well?  I mean they already spent $60.00 if not more on the game.  So now they have to purchase it again? I know it's not full price anymore but the least they could have done was to give those upgrading a free copy. 

 

What they *should* do is allow people with older consoles to get one copy of the game for a newer console at no charge - but that will never happen.

 

I haven't caught up completely yet, so maybe this has been answered already. In that case I'm sorry. Bear with me.^^

So, I think this is not BW but Microsoft acting, if what you say is true for Xbox (which I don't know). PS actually does offer this "cross-generation purchase" (for the lack of a better word). If you buy a game for PS3 or PS4 you are also eligible for downloading its respective other version for free. I could download DAI for PS3 (if I had one) without trouble. I did not try it but I did see the option. And a friend of mine said it works fine.

[laurelinvanyar]

In that beautiful, hypothetical world of the Total War: Dragon Age I am torn between playing the Qunari and the Tevinter Imperium.

Roman Sorcerers against Ox-Borg. Winner takes the Nocen Sea.

 

Qamek is terrifying. 

I'm kind of hoping we get to play a third party and just let them take each other out lol. If I have to choose between Ari-Sten and Dorian I'm probably going to cry. 

 

I've been trying to brainstorm ideas about why the qunari showed up at par vollen in the first place. Remnants of an army fleeing the Kossith? Religious exiles/pilgrims? Or perhaps like the Seanchan, we're only seeing the vanguard. Only the kossith took too long to send the rest of the army and that vanguard eventually forgot its purpose/became an independent settlement. 

[Caddius]

I'm kind of hoping we get to play a third party and just let them take each other out lol. If I have to choose between Ari-Sten and Dorian I'm probably going to cry. 

 

I've been trying to brainstorm ideas about why the qunari showed up at par vollen in the first place. Remnants of an army fleeing the Kossith? Religious exiles/pilgrims? Or perhaps like the Seanchan, we're only seeing the vanguard. Only the kossith took too long to send the rest of the army and that vanguard eventually forgot its purpose/became an independent settlement. 

I'm thinking that the kossith are tied to either the Executors' masters or their blood is even more tainted than whatever happened to the Qunari. Highly advanced, highly bellicose empires. Eventually Koslun gets sick of this and creates a new philosophy obsessed with discipline.  The Qun becomes a growing religion, but it's heavily persecuted. They might manage to get control of a small kingdom or so, but against overwhelming pressure from the rest of the continent, they decide to pull a Mayflower and go settle the lands of the 'heathen'. Unfortunately for the Qunari, they are not armed with germs, and so have to win the conflict militarily. 

It's been mentioned before that kossith religion was a kind of animism. So I'm willing to bet that the kossith's willingness to meddle with spirits and demons led to the Qunari paranoia of magic and demons. Then they end up in Thedas, ready to conquer, and find the human mirror of the kossith. Cue total war. 

Those are my conspiracy theories, at least.

[Gwyvian]

Excellent points. (As usual from you two. )

So another question popped into my head. The Qunari arrived as an invasion fleet. There's something incongruous about them being that organized and numerous without having had an established nation beforehand. In which case, what the devil did the kossith do to drive them off? I guess I'm just trying to wrap my head around the logistics of it?

Gwyvian, I'm reminded of how the Nazi economy was propped up by plundering their neighbors, and how desperate the regime was to maintain the illusion of German economic prosperity. So they kept on pushing. Same with Rome, but over a much longer time-scale because Romans>Nazis. The Roman model of government was designed for navigating the various tribes of Latium, then of mainland Italia. It was decidedly not equipped for the empire spanning the Mare Nostrum they almost accidentally acquired. The Republic evolves, spasms, and then you get the years of the Principate and the Empire. Even then, the government evolves, with administration split into halves and quarters, civil wars, a change of religion, remodeled taxation and armies, collapse of trade, funny hats.

I don't think the Qunari have undergone that kind of change. It's almost like they're content to perfect the operation of the Qun within Par Vollen and Seheron, and get really good at fighting as much as recruiting. Then yeah, they'll pounce.

So the GIMP thing is kind of a pain.  So many buttons. 

 

Exactly the examples I was thinking of.   Ah, Romans.  They devised a very clever way to keep a balance between conquering and ruling for the most part (like the way they absorbed peoples), yet my distinct impression was that the collapse of the empire was due to the fact that there's only so far that you can keep a conquering empire alive and hold on to what you have already; it was doomed to fail if they continued the expansion and I saw a lot of "scrambling" in the laws and political/social systems they began to adapt to shift the empire's purpose away from that destructive spiral, but we know that didn't prevent the collapse ultimately, not least because it was fundamentally ineffective in many ways already. Similarly I think the Nazis would have had much more difficulty in holding power if they hadn't kept pushing, but again, the problem is that you begin to run out of enemies (or at least, enemies that you can fight effectively), or you begin to destabilize, whichever comes first, so again, doomed to fail. Ultimately the model already carries a seed of failure in it that's very difficult to overcome (I'm minded of the "preview" of Raistlin's future as a god: what happens when there's literally no one left to rule over and no one left to fight?).

 

As to the kossith - I'm minded most of a Vulcan/Romulan type of exodus at this juncture, some core philosophical and spiritual difference that ends up creating an entirely new race, but it could even have been a "peaceful" venture (meaning that they left the kossith willingly) to find a place where they can stage their massive war on the rest of Thedas for all we know. Right now I think they have perfectly infiltrated everywhere and just might have a plan to simultaneously attack across all fronts, but at this point it seems more like a contingency plan than anything else.

 

We just know so little about them and their plans, despite all this content and two companions and tidbits from here and there, lore and information on current events, etc. it seems to me that we still haven't actually seen the qunari to any real effect. Their entire existence is almost ephemeral to me, I hear but I do not see. It's odd, because I don't get that sense with other cultures we never see close up. Perhaps it's because the qunari really do have a Borg-esque presence in the world, it's just so alien to any other form of existence that you have to literally board their ship and witness firsthand how they exist to really get them, and for good measure toss in an experience or two as one. Plus, we rarely come across any substantial information about groups other than what we might call the military arm of the qunari, so it's difficult to gauge them.

[electricfish]

I'm kind of hoping we get to play a third party and just let them take each other out lol. If I have to choose between Ari-Sten and Dorian I'm probably going to cry. 

 

I've been trying to brainstorm ideas about why the qunari showed up at par vollen in the first place. Remnants of an army fleeing the Kossith? Religious exiles/pilgrims? Or perhaps like the Seanchan, we're only seeing the vanguard. Only the kossith took too long to send the rest of the army and that vanguard eventually forgot its purpose/became an independent settlement. 

 

I would say it somewhat depends on the attitude and potential society that Kossith are/used to be. Due to very selective breeding over 1-2 thousand years, modern Qunari are most certainly not much like their ancient Kossith relatives. Were Kossith more akin to dragons with an internal rage and very loose tribal society?  Were they structured similarly to modern Qunari with intense personal restrictions based? Or did the race have a schism due to a group beginning to develop independence and some semblance of society/structure?

 

Did Kossith have a schism first and send a vanguard + pilgrims to Par Vollen, or did they try to live on whatever homeland they came from, but found it to be incompatible with whatever thing was important to them? The Qunari didn't have much trouble taking over Par Vollen, which means they came from some sort of established society. Whether that society is the entirety of the Kossith, or they are a branch that separated and later found their homeland to be too hostile is the question.

[Gwyvian]

...and the Kossith Wild Hunt swooped in and... 

 

Back to the Seanchan parallel, I think the qunari could totally be a vanguard who got "stranded" on a new land in similar fashion and ended up sticking around. Colonial settlements slowly turning into a rebellious faction/"one true" empire while chaos rules in the homeland that eventually creates an irrevocable split. I like both ideas right now.