153434 réponses à ce sujet

[BoscoBread]

Let me repeat: I want it confirmed in a game. I refuse mandatory secondary merchandise like comic books or novels, I don't want to be forced into Twitter threads or interviews. It is a game, a secluded universe I indulge in, an RPG. I want to keep it as such. I do not want meta-knowledge to influence my game, worse even: to give it sense. I want to keep up the boundaries. While I play there is my character, separated, and she exists on her own. She should not require my player-knowledge to get along in the world she is living in. She cannot know what I know as long as she is not told. So she simply lacks that knowledge.

 

I know you disagree, but I have a right on this approach to gaming. I just simply merely do not like this. Why can't they make a fictional world that can work alone? Why do they need to confirm outside of the story? The fiction I am familiar with, from LOTR to Star Wars, was able to deliver all important information in the story itself. Why not BW games?

 

 

That would be great. But isn't it interesting that the Qun still allows for careers? You are not born Arishok, you must work to get there. Funny, sort of. If you were determined to be Arishok, by their own logic, shouldn't that be clear pretty early so you can be sent right off to some Arishok preparation camp?

I wonder what a Qunari will choose to believe, that the female fighter is a woman who follows a wrong path or a warrior who assumes the wrong gender...?

 

 

And how does this relate to your female Trev thinking she were a son?

I was mostly making a jest that the Andrastian religion is a rip off of Christianity.  Because it is.

 

Regarding out-of-game lore: Yes.  I don't mind it perse - but like there was TOO much "stuff" in this game that required out of game context.  The entire Halamshiral sequence was all the more understandable if you read the companion book. 

 

The Solas romance even required Patrick Weekes to come in and remind people "hey, he still loves the Inquisitor" and it's like 'why do I need to know that? wouldn't it have been more interesting and compelling if they would have left that to the end and the resolution of the romance?' because - like you say - your character would NOT know this stuff.  Would not know that he was about to stay but then had to go - all of this will come out for them when he finally tells you who he was.  so shouldn't that be a nice little suprise for the player?

 

Corypheus came off to be a cheesy villain until you read the canticle of silence, out of game interviews, and then piece together what you get in game. come to find out he's incredibly tragic. 

 

What bothers me the most is the out-of-game interviews needed to actually get a better idea of the story. It's one thing to need supplemental material, but like, I shouldn't have to interview the author to get the point he was trying to make.  If I have to, they failed.

[Illyria]

Let me repeat: I want it confirmed in a game. I refuse mandatory secondary merchandise like comic books or novels, I don't want to be forced into Twitter threads or interviews. It is a game, a secluded universe I indulge in, an RPG. I want to keep it as such. I do not want meta-knowledge to influence my game, worse even: to give it sense. I want to keep up the boundaries. While I play there is my character, separated, and she exists on her own. She should not require my player-knowledge to get along in the world she is living in. She cannot know what I know as long as she is not told. So she simply lacks that knowledge.

 

I know you disagree, but I have a right on this approach to gaming. I just simply merely do not like this. Why can't they make a fictional world that can work alone? Why do they need to confirm outside of the story? The fiction I am familiar with, from LOTR to Star Wars, was able to deliver all important information in the story itself. Why not BW games?

 

 

That would be great. But isn't it interesting that the Qun still allows for careers? You are not born Arishok, you must work to get there. Funny, sort of. If you were determined to be Arishok, by their own logic, shouldn't that be clear pretty early so you can be sent right off to some Arishok preparation camp?

I wonder what a Qunari will choose to believe, that the female fighter is a woman who follows a wrong path or a warrior who assumes the wrong gender...?

 

 

And how does this relate to your female Trev thinking she were a son?

 

It is confirmed in game, though.  Everything I said came from what Bull and Sten said about gender, and what we know about how the Qunari see the world.
 

[ChuChu]

*Sorry if this has been discussed before*
 
Has Patrick (or anyone else) ever explained why Solas is not present in Wicked Grace scene? I have my own reasoning, but was just wondering if he discussed this scene anywhere and I just missed it.

Good question -- I don't know. I do know there is a Solas banter where he says he doesn't gamble anymore, though in another banter he was taught by and subsequently demolished Blackwall at Diamondback. With only a bucket for his bits. So yeah -- I dunno! But imagine if Solas had to walk away with a bucket for his bits. Maybe he just knew better than to play with Josephine. Leliana isn't in the game either, is she?

[Sah291]

@Gwyvian, I like your theory! It's funny you mention King Arthur, as I was watching the Mists of Avalon the other night, and I was thinking something similar....about the Inquisitor. But I could see Solas having accomplished something like that in his day. Explains why both sides felt betrayed when he....did whatever it was he did, and his confusion over who his "people" are if he had one foot in one tribe/faction, and the other in a new one at court. I wonder if this is what he considers to be the mistake? When you split your loyalties like that sometimes one side ends up getting hurt, or both.

As for the political theory, in light of the JOH codex on the Forgotten Ones, I think you might be right. It does sound like they were having an argument about "divine right of kings" or something similar with the whole "deeds" vs "nature" thing. I don't know if the political pararells are intentional, DAI is the most spiritual themed of the series so far, but I see it. The only problem there is Morrigan at the well, when she speculates that the gods were just ancient rulers (and thus long dead and powerless). Solas implies she's wrong. Clearly the Creators weren't just regular elves masquerading as gods, but they really ~were~ more powerful and had abilities others didn't, if not being actual gods. Which begs the question about what makes a "god" in the first place.

[Sah291]

Regarding out-of-game lore: Yes.  I don't mind it perse - but like there was TOO much "stuff" in this game that required out of game context.  The entire Halamshiral sequence was all the more understandable if you read the companion book.

I generally like and don't mind extended universe stuff, but I agree with you there, DAI did go a little too far with relying on so much out of game context. But I feel like this was a consequence of a lot of content being cut from the game during development for whatever reason, and not necessarily the original artistic vision. The devs have said it was originally a much bigger game. So hopefully they'll figure out how to strike a better balance in DA4.

[DustyTulip]

I generally like and don't mind extended universe stuff, but I agree with you there, DAI did go a little too far with relying on so much out of game context. But I feel like this was a consequence of a lot of content being cut from the game during development for whatever reason, and not necessarily the original artistic vision. The devs have said it was originally a much bigger game. So hopefully they'll figure out how to strike a better balance in DA4.

 

Agree 100%! As a person who started DA with Inquisition and never played/read/watched anything from the universe before, I played for about 20 hours and then went: 'OK... wait... what?.. I am supposed to have an opinion about Circles but what is the deal with them exactly?...' So switched off the game and opened the wikis. If I had to rely only on the game knowledge, I would probably stop playing. When my friend started playing DAI, I literally wouldn't let her do Halamshiral mission before she has read the Masked Empire. I was so lost on that mission before the book, and I knew that she would enjoy it so much more if she read the book and got to understand the trio a bit better.

 

But then also, I get obsessed about things that I like. So as much as like the idea of knowing only what my Inquisitor knows, I would never be able to restrict myself from buying comics, books, WT1, WT2, plushies...haha

[DustyTulip]

Good question -- I don't know. I do know there is a Solas banter where he says he doesn't gamble anymore, though in another banter he was taught by and subsequently demolished Blackwall at Diamondback. With only a bucket for his bits. So yeah -- I dunno! But imagine if Solas had to walk away with a bucket for his bits. Maybe he just knew better than to play with Josephine. Leliana isn't in the game either, is she?

My theory was that he always tried to keep his distance from everyone and not to get attached to other companions (because of the end of the game and Fen'Harel related things), so he never attended any 'bonding' events... but then he did play cards with Blackwall...

 

Vivienne and Leliana are not there either, yeah.

[midnight tea]

I generally like and don't mind extended universe stuff, but I agree with you there, DAI did go a little too far with relying on so much out of game context. But I feel like this was a consequence of a lot of content being cut from the game during development for whatever reason, and not necessarily the original artistic vision. The devs have said it was originally a much bigger game. So hopefully they'll figure out how to strike a better balance in DA4.

 

I don't really think that's the case, since from the start DA is set to be a multi-media franchise. Aside from many in-game details only making sense only if we play first two games, there are A LOT of things outside of games themselves - and I don't just mean tidbits and explanations from writers - there are books, comics... even frikking anime. And each of them contains a piece of information - just like sometimes different interactions with character (including mutually exclusive ones) in game itself have different pieces of information.

 

And while they make an effort to provide basics in each piece of medium, for those new to the story as well as casual players - but for anyone interested with more than that I think the entire franchise only makes sense if we take everything into account.

[midnight tea]

My theory was that he always tried to keep his distance from everyone and not to get attached to other companions (because of the end of the game and Fen'Harel related things), so he never attended any 'bonding' events... but then he did play cards with Blackwall...

 

Vivienne and Leliana are not there either, yeah.

 

I think if he played in that Wicked Grace scene everyone beside himself would end up naked

[Sah291]

I don't really think that was, since from the start DA is set to be a multi-media franchise. There are A LOT of things outside of the game, and I don't just mean tidbits and explanations from writers - there are books, comics... even frikking anime. And each of them contains a piece of information - just like sometimes different interactions with character (including mutually exclusive ones) in game itself have different pieces of information.

And while they make an effort to provide basics in each piece of medium, for those new to the story as well as casual players - but for anyone interested with more than that I think the entire franchise only makes sense if we take everything into account.

Oh I don't mean it was ever meant to be totally self contained, just that they maybe went a little too far cutting out some stuff that probably would have been better off left in for exposition. Like, I feel like we are missing something with Cory in particular, in between Haven and the ending. I have a theory about why (maybe part of Cory's story was originally meant to involve Hawke in the expansion), but nonetheless he could have used a little more fleshing out, I thought.

I for one am glad they didn't go into a whole thing rehashing about the Circles and the Chantry/Templars, as those issues should be pretty clear by now if you played the first two games. But I felt like we needed more about the Venatori, etc.

And just to stay on topic, I did feel like it was evident from the writing that Solas really did love the Quizzy and wasn't just faking the whole time. I don't feel like Weekes really *needed* to tell us that in an interview, but it's still nice extra clarification that he did anyway, and that we got to hear a little bit more of his intention as the writer. So nice extra info to have, but not necessary to still enjoy the story for what we see on screen.

[drosophila]

Art again.

 

 

A time when the Pantheon got along. Mostly. By nikki-tikki.

Spoiler

Source: http://glitterotti.t...a-time-when-the

 

 

 

OMG, the look on Andruil's face!

[Illyria]

OMG, the look on Andruil's face!

 

That's Dirthamen.

 

...

 

And all three of them are naked.

[procutemeister]

My theory was that he always tried to keep his distance from everyone and not to get attached to other companions (because of the end of the game and Fen'Harel related things), so he never attended any 'bonding' events... but then he did play cards with Blackwall...

 

Vivienne and Leliana are not there either, yeah.

 

I agree with this, and I also think that he doesn't join Wicked Grace because he's naturally introverted and prefers to keep to himself.

 

Oh I don't mean it was ever meant to be totally self contained, just that they maybe went a little too far cutting out some stuff that probably would have been better off left in for exposition. Like, I feel like we are missing something with Cory in particular, in between Haven and the ending. I have a theory about why (maybe part of Cory's story was originally meant to involve Hawke in the expansion), but nonetheless he could have used a little more fleshing out, I thought.

I for one am glad they didn't go into a whole thing rehashing about the Circles and the Chantry/Templars, as those issues should be pretty clear by now if you played the first two games. But I felt like we needed more about the Venatori, etc.

 

I also agree that Cory needed more fleshing out, especially since his first appearance was in the DA 2 DLC, and not everyone would have known who he was. He, along with the Venatori and the Red Templars needed more screen time--the only instance I remember seeing the Venatori/Red Templars in a cutscene was during the destruction of Haven, and Calpernia/Samson during their quests. (Personally I'm quite salty about this because I'm really intrigued by both their characters and wanted more scenes of them.)

 

In DA:O there were the occasional scenes where you would see what Loghain/Howe were up to while you were out using the treaties. Something like that would have been good for Corypheus, his lieutenant and army. It would have established him as a more tangible threat outside of the Haven arc.

[CapricornSun]

I also agree that Cory needed more fleshing out, especially since his first appearance was in the DA 2 DLC, and not everyone would have known who he was. 

 

My sister and her hubby never played DA2's Legacy DLC so they were quite confused as to who Cory was when he made his appearance at Haven. Like they had a feeling that they're supposed to know who that guy is. xD (Compare that to my reaction of "Oh snap! It's that guy from Legacy!")

 

 

In DA:O there were the occasional scenes where you would see what Loghain/Howe were up to while you were out using the treaties. Something like that would have been good for Corypheus, his lieutenant and army. It would have established him as a more tangible threat outside of the Haven arc.

 

I agree. Scenes like that would've been nice. 

[midnight tea]

In DA:O there were the occasional scenes where you would see what Loghain/Howe were up to while you were out using the treaties. Something like that would have been good for Corypheus, his lieutenant and army. It would have established him as a more tangible threat outside of the Haven arc.

 

I agree we could have more, but it's not like there's nothing - both his lieutenants have side-quests dedicated for themselves, Cory or red lyrium and red templars.

 

Granted, while Samson's quest-chain is longer/more elaborate (requires us to do things across two zones AND a war table mission later), Calpernia's side-quest is better, because not only we get a few cutscenes where we see her (or rather, 'see' her through the special crystal), but we get to hear Corpheus' memoirs recorded in red lyrium.

[Cee]

 And just to stay on topic, I did feel like it was evident from the writing that Solas really did love the Quizzy and wasn't just faking the whole time. I don't feel like Weekes really *needed* to tell us that in an interview, but it's still nice extra clarification that he did anyway, and that we got to hear a little bit more of his intention as the writer. So nice extra info to have, but not necessary to still enjoy the story for what we see on screen.

 

Agreed, it was pretty obvious to me, and I avoided meta stuff until after playing.

[Uirebhiril]

I also agree that Cory needed more fleshing out, especially since his first appearance was in the DA 2 DLC, and not everyone would have known who he was. He, along with the Venatori and the Red Templars needed more screen time--the only instance I remember seeing the Venatori/Red Templars in a cutscene was during the destruction of Haven, and Calpernia/Samson during their quests. (Personally I'm quite salty about this because I'm really intrigued by both their characters and wanted more scenes of them.)

 

 

That moment when Corypheus strides out of the burning rubble of Haven for the first time I felt a chill, because boy howdy did I remember fighting him in DA2. He had such potential to be an awesome villain, but it really wasn't given to us in DAI. He became such a cheesy "meh, who cares, I got elfroot to harvest" type of non-threat. What I find most sad about that is he really could be a tragic/sympathetic character if you had the option to learn more, and not everyone did. I find his concept fascinating. I wonder how he would have turned out if DAI had really been double the length like they originally said it was.

 

Which, come to think of it, I also wonder how things will work if they move Solas forward to DA4 with a new protagonist and someone new to the series starts playing with that game. They're going to miss a lot of context, moreso than people who started with DAI and didn't get any of the Dalish background of Fen'Harel to begin with. I certainly hope they wrap up some of those loose ends with the Inquisitor and not a new person. It would be a bit shaky then.

[Sah291]

Yeah that part where Dorian tells the Quizzy that the Venatori are obessed with him/her. I thought "oooh, interesting". We can infer it has something to do with the anchor, time magic, etc....but I really wanted to know more. I'm a scifi junky though and I like time travel stories, so when I heard time magic, I was like "that's awesome".

Anyway, back to Cory, that's why I wonder if Cory's story arc originally involved Hawke. Because Legacy set up such a personal connection to Cory with Hawke's family/father. But with the expansion dropped, they had to drop that personal arc, but Cory was still central to the main story plot. I think the implication here is that Cory is not the real antagonist for the Quizzy, Solas is, and Cory was more of a pawn. Which makes sense. But they could have fleshed out some stuff with Samson and Calpernia more to make up for that lost personal touch, to flesh Cory out.

Don't get me wrong I still enjoyed the game very much. I just really hope the DLC has more stuff about the anchor and the fade, as hinted in the survey thing.

[midnight tea]

Yeah that part where Dorian tells the Quizzy that the Venatori are obessed with him/her. I thought "oooh, interesting". We can infer it has something to do with the anchor, time magic, etc.... I really wanted to know more. I'm a scifi junky though and I like time travel stories, so when I heard time magic, I was like "that's awesome".

 

But... we do eventually find out why Venatori were obsessed with Quizzy - because they 'stole' the Anchor (and survived the Fade together with it). That's the reason why Cory attacked Haven in the first place; he thought at that point that he'd be able to retrieve it.

[procutemeister]

My sister and her hubby never played DA2's Legacy DLC so they were quite confused as to who Cory was when he made his appearance at Haven. Like they had a feeling that they're supposed to know who that guy is. xD (Compare that to my reaction of "Oh snap! It's that guy from Legacy!")

 

 

I agree. Scenes like that would've been nice. 

 

I wasn't able to buy Legacy, so when Corypheus showed up I was at a bit of a loss like your sister and her husband.  I only vaguely remembered his name from the DA Keep.

 

I agree we could have more, but it's not like there's nothing - both his lieutenants have side-quests dedicated for themselves, Cory or red lyrium and red templars.

 

Granted, while Samson's quest-chain is longer/more elaborate (requires us to do things across two zones AND a war table mission later), Calpernia's side-quest is better, because not only we get a few cutscenes where we see her (or rather, 'see' her through the special crystal), but we get to hear Corpheus' memoirs recorded in red lyrium.

 

That moment when Corypheus strides out of the burning rubble of Haven for the first time I felt a chill, because boy howdy did I remember fighting him in DA2. He had such potential to be an awesome villain, but it really wasn't given to us in DAI. He became such a cheesy "meh, who cares, I got elfroot to harvest" type of non-threat. What I find most sad about that is he really could be a tragic/sympathetic character if you had the option to learn more, and not everyone did. I find his concept fascinating. I wonder how he would have turned out if DAI had really been double the length like they originally said it was.

 

Which, come to think of it, I also wonder how things will work if they move Solas forward to DA4 with a new protagonist and someone new to the series starts playing with that game. They're going to miss a lot of context, moreso than people who started with DAI and didn't get any of the Dalish background of Fen'Harel to begin with. I certainly hope they wrap up some of those loose ends with the Inquisitor and not a new person. It would be a bit shaky then.

 

The problem is that Cory didn't feel like enough of a threat after Haven, and I think that it's because we never get to actually see him trying to counter or recover from the blows struck against him, for example, recruiting/banishing the Wardens and choosing a ruler at Halamshiral. The characters kept talking about how these actions have huge repercussions against Cory but that point would have been driven home by a cutscene or two with him. 

 

I agree that being able to hear Cory's memoirs in the red lyrium crystals was a good way to make him more personal, but I think that there should have been more. With the little that we got from those, he had a lot of potential to become someone we could sympathize with. 

 

I actually want Solas to be in the next game, but I agree that people starting with DA 4 would lose a lot of the context. The loose ends definitely have to be wrapped up by the Inquisitor, especially the personal ones. However, he should be in the next game because he's now a huge player is shaping the future of Thedas. Personally, I can see him as having a role similar to Flemeth's for the future games. 

[Abelas Forever!]

But... we do eventually find out why Venatori were obsessed with Quizzy - because they 'stole' the Anchor (and survived the Fade together with it). That's the reason why Cory attacked Haven in the first place; he thought at that point that he'd be able to retrieve it.

I think that venatori was interested in Inquisitor because they worked for Cory so he was behind their interest.

[midnight tea]

I think that venatori was interested in Inquisitor because they worked for Cory so he was behind their interest.

 

It's rather obvious that back at the time Venatori arrived to Redcliffe they were already serving 'the Elder One', that is Corypheus. 

[Niamaduir]

Saw this on my Tumblr dash this morning and I am now chomping at the bit to see how my commission turns out

 

Source: http://needapotion.t...sitor-aerin-and

 

Spoiler

 

[midnight tea]

The problem is that Cory didn't feel like enough of a threat after Haven, and I think that it's because we never get to actually see him trying to counter or recover from the blows struck against him, for example, recruiting/banishing the Wardens and choosing a ruler at Halamshiral. The characters kept talking about how these actions have huge repercussions against Cory but that point would have been driven home by a cutscene or two with him. 

 

A few cutscenes or more mentions would be fine, however him being in the background and not revealing himself is the reason why he almost managed to march on Southern Thedas with mages, corrupted templars, Wardens, Venatori and demon army, kill the Divine and Empress Celene and have pretty much free access to the Fade.

 

Corypheus is a schemer - his schtick is that he manipulates everything from shadows.

 

 

 

I actually want Solas to be in the next game, but I agree that people starting with DA 4 would lose a lot of the context. The loose ends definitely have to be wrapped up by the Inquisitor, especially the personal ones. However, he should be in the next game because he's now a huge player is shaping the future of Thedas. Personally, I can see him as having a role similar to Flemeth's for the future games. 

 

It's actually been confirmed in PC Gamer (I think) article I've read some time ago - I've read that's specifically the reason why they introduced him; kinda to replace Flemeth.

 

As for losing a lot of context... anyone who begins with a title that has '4' in it and know enough about series that they're aware that those are not entirely self-contained stories, would likely expect to not know the story well the first time they play it. I began DA with DAI - didn't stop me to eventually getting to know more details from other games and sources

[Sah291]

But... we do eventually find out why Venatori were obsessed with Quizzy - because they 'stole' the Anchor (and survived the Fade together with it). That's the reason why Cory attacked Haven in the first place; he thought at that point that he'd be able to retrieve it.

They did, but I just wanted to know more about them and what they were doing/planning. There is a climax at Haven, posing some very interesting themes/questions.