153433 réponses à ce sujet

[Niamaduir]

@ Gwyvian

 

I really like what you posted and I think it is a well thought-out theory. I hope Bioware give us some more details about the Creators and Forgotten Ones along with a bit more insight into the society of Elvhenan. There are just so many questions many of which we have discussed here. Like the conversation that we had several pages back on how slavery would even work in a society where everyone is immortal and can use magic. I also get the feeling that unlike the Chantry/Christianity parallel that the Creators/Forgotten Ones RL parallel is more of a mishmash of Western mythologies with the possibility of some other cultural mythologies thrown in there for good measure.

 

[Abelas Forever!]

It's rather obvious that back at the time Venatori arrived to Redcliffe they were already serving 'the Elder One', that is Corypheus. 

I agree and the reason why they are doing all those things is because Corypheus has ordered them to do them.

[Abelas Forever!]

It's actually been confirmed in PC Gamer (I think) article I've read some time ago - I've read that's specifically the reason why they introduced him; kinda to replace Flemeth.

 

Are you sure? I mean it could be speculation. Because Morrigan could easily be the next Flemeth instead of him.

[BoscoBread]

That moment when Corypheus strides out of the burning rubble of Haven for the first time I felt a chill, because boy howdy did I remember fighting him in DA2. He had such potential to be an awesome villain, but it really wasn't given to us in DAI. He became such a cheesy "meh, who cares, I got elfroot to harvest" type of non-threat. What I find most sad about that is he really could be a tragic/sympathetic character if you had the option to learn more, and not everyone did. I find his concept fascinating. I wonder how he would have turned out if DAI had really been double the length like they originally said it was.

 

Which, come to think of it, I also wonder how things will work if they move Solas forward to DA4 with a new protagonist and someone new to the series starts playing with that game. They're going to miss a lot of context, moreso than people who started with DAI and didn't get any of the Dalish background of Fen'Harel to begin with. I certainly hope they wrap up some of those loose ends with the Inquisitor and not a new person. It would be a bit shaky then.

Yes.  (Obviously I'm a bit partial to Cory). But I think the magisters overall were incredibly tragic and when you read the WoT2 you find that he - Cory -  really was a deeply religious person. It was not power he wanted perse. He wanted affirmation. What a powerful story to weave in with what's going on with Solas and the rest of the pantheon.  Man facing God.

 

Which was not conveyed appropriately in-game.  I'm fine with wiki's for background. I'm fien for random fleshing out of characters -- like supplemental comics that go over their history(like Cassandra and Regalyan).  But to need that to actually tell the story they wanted to tell -- and with Cory THAT was the story they wanted to tell -- it shouldn't be necessary. Again, it was a mis-step. This game was far from pefect.  It shows where they bit off more than they could chew.  But not atrocious.  They have a lot of interesting lore. They just need to be better about implementing it.

 

This story really was abotu the elf/human - and mainly about the elf.  They could have streamlined it to just have an elf Inquisitor.  You ahve that parallel with Ameridan etc. etc.  They could have fleshed it out a lot better.  As much as I would have loved to play a Cadash/Adaar it was like 'why?'.   Another game perhaps.  One that focused on what it meant to be a dwarf or a Qunari blah blah.  Likely not an opinion that will get me a lot of love, but whatever.

 

As for a New Protag: I'll leave that to the DLC.  If it's not wrapped up well - then yeah I would agree.  If it is, then we shall see. It is getting LUDICROUS  that Leliana literally meets every important person in this universe.

[procutemeister]

A few cutscenes or more mentions would be fine, however him being in the background and not revealing himself is the reason why he almost managed to march on Southern Thedas with mages, corrupted templars, Wardens, Venatori and demon army, kill the Divine and Empress Celene and have pretty much free access to the Fade.

 

Corypheus is a schemer - his schtick is that he manipulates everything from shadows.

 

 

 

It's actually been confirmed in PC Gamer (I think) article I've read some time ago - I've read that's specifically the reason why they introduced him; kinda to replace Flemeth.

 

As for losing a lot of context... anyone who begins with a title that has '4' in it and know enough about series that they're aware that those are not entirely self-contained stories, would likely expect to not know the story well the first time they play it. I began DA with DAI - didn't stop me to eventually getting to know more details from other games and sources

 

Yeah, you're right about Corypheus being a schemer... cutscenes would be good, but I'm not sure how they would present him (and maybe the Venatori/Red Templars).

 

As for the context... playing since DAO has made a bit biased towards having knowledge from previous games. 

 

Are you sure? I mean it could be speculation. Because Morrigan could easily be the next Flemeth instead of him.

 

This is interesting... I think it's possible that both he and Morrigan could have similar roles to Flemeth. They could even team up. Though I'm not sure it will happen.

[Sah291]

Are you sure? I mean it could be speculation. Because Morrigan could easily be the next Flemeth instead of him.

I agree. Although I suppose he ~is~ technically replacing Flemeth, at least temporarily, while he has absorbed her power. Whether Morrigan ends up with it in the end will be interesting. I think that at the very least there might be a conflict between Morrigan and Solas, as an antagonistic relationship between them was sorta hinted at. Maybe the Quizzy (or the next PC) will find themselves in the middle and will have to choose.

[Ardent Blossom]

I agree. Although I suppose he ~is~ technically replacing Flemeth, at least temporarily, while he has absorbed her power. Whether Morrigan ends up with it in the end will be interesting. I think that at the very least there might be a conflict between Morrigan and Solas, as an antagonistic relationship between them was sorta hinted at. Maybe the Quizzy (or the next PC) will find themselves in the middle and will have to choose.

I keep latching onto Kieran calling his mother "the inheritor." I didn't hear it in every play thru, so maybe not all of you took that branch on the dialogue tree (or could if you didn't have a god baby). Morrigan will, in my mind, inherit the spirit of Mythal at least. IMHO Solas won't be the new Flemythal...fingers crossed.

[drosophila]

I agree. Although I suppose he ~is~ technically replacing Flemeth, at least temporarily, while he has absorbed her power. Whether Morrigan ends up with it in the end will be interesting. I think that at the very least there might be a conflict between Morrigan and Solas, as an antagonistic relationship between them was sorta hinted at. Maybe the Quizzy (or the next PC) will find themselves in the middle and will have to choose.

 

I hope the choice of who drank from the Well will have some major implications. Maybe Morrigan or the IQ will be his "right hand" in DA4, similar to how Samson/Calpernia was to Cory in DAI. A relationship that will be made all the more interesting if it's Morrigan who dislikes him or if it's a romanced Inquisitor. 

[Abelas Forever!]

I agree. Although I suppose he ~is~ technically replacing Flemeth, at least temporarily, while he has absorbed her power. Whether Morrigan ends up with it in the end will be interesting. I think that at the very least there might be a conflict between Morrigan and Solas, as an antagonistic relationship between them was sorta hinted at. Maybe the Quizzy (or the next PC) will find themselves in the middle and will have to choose.

 

 

This is interesting... I think it's possible that both he and Morrigan could have similar roles to Flemeth. They could even team up. Though I'm not sure it will happen.

 

So many things are possible but I believe that it's more likely that we'll see Solas in the following DLC instead of Morrigan. Maybe we'll see both.  Solas has Mythal's power and Morrigan has her godhood. Which one of them is the next Flemeth? I would say that it's Morrigan because I believe that her story will continue and we'll be seing her in the future while Solas' story might be over in the DLC. Morrigan has also been in DA universe from the beginning.

 

I think Solas doesn't trust Morrigan but I don't know how Morrigan feels about Solas. Anyway I don't believe that there is a conflict between them. Morrigan also seems to want to restore old elven culture and I believe that Solas wouldn't disagree on that. They are not friends but I don't see that their goals are so different that they would start fighting against each other.

[midnight tea]

This story really was abotu the elf/human - and mainly about the elf.  They could have streamlined it to just have an elf Inquisitor.  You ahve that parallel with Ameridan etc. etc.  They could have fleshed it out a lot better.  As much as I would have loved to play a Cadash/Adaar it was like 'why?'.   Another game perhaps.  One that focused on what it meant to be a dwarf or a Qunari blah blah.  Likely not an opinion that will get me a lot of love, but whatever.

 

I think I've read a few times that initially DAI was just supposed to have human protagonist - with a lot indicating that it might originally been Hawke. With EA giving BW more development time, they eventually added more races to the mix (and I think that whatever they've cut to focus on adding those, they've eventually made the right decision). 

Therefore I'm not sure if the story is supposed to be specifically about elf Inquisitor - I think it's more like the story just appears to be that way, because of all the elf-related things in the background or the emerging realization that elvhen gods (or some really powerful beings) were actually real, and some actually walk Thedas today, trying to accomplish... well, something - be it revenge (Mythal), restoration of some sort (Solas/Fen'Harel) and Maker knows what else.

 

As for JOH and Ameridan - while the parallel between Lavellan and Ameridan is nice and all, the point of him being a.) Dalish and b.) mage, was there predominantly to show the efforts of Chantry (and those ruling Thedas, in general) to purge any mention of elves and mages from Thedosian history.

[midnight tea]

So many things are possible but I believe that it's more likely that we'll see Solas in the following DLC instead of Morrigan. Maybe we'll see both.  Solas has Mythal's power and Morrigan has her godhood. Which one of them is the next Flemeth? I would say that it's Morrigan because I believe that her story will continue and we'll be seing her in the future while Solas' story might be over in the DLC. Morrigan has also been in DA universe from the beginning.

 

I think Solas doesn't trust Morrigan but I don't know how Morrigan feels about Solas. Anyway I don't believe that there is a conflict between them. Morrigan also seems to want to restore old elven culture and I believe that Solas wouldn't disagree on that. They are not friends but I don't see that their goals are so different that they would start fighting against each other.

 

Well, we still have to find out what will be consequences of drinking from Well Of Sorrows... I'd be very disappointed if nothing came out of it.

 

As for relationship between Solas and Morrigan - eh, a lot can happen at this point and it may yet be important or irrelevant... Though IMO it might be as pivotal as the one, I think, they were building between him and Cassandra/Varric. Let's not forget after all that Inquisitor and Solas may dislike one another and be bad enough Inquisitor (who made enough bad decisions) to utterly fail at something important (in DLC... DA4?), in which case there might have to be an NPC in their stead who'd have to do something important - be it at stepping up at the role of a friend or someone whom Solas at least respects enough to listen to.

[Abelas Forever!]

Well, we still have to find out what will be consequences of drinking from Well Of Sorrows... I'd be very disappointed if nothing came out of it.

 

As for relationship between Solas and Morrigan - eh, a lot can happen at this point and it may yet be important or irrelevant... Though IMO it might be as pivotal as the one, I think, they were building between him and Cassandra/Varric. Let's not forget after all that Inquisitor and Solas may dislike one another and be bad enough Inquisitor (who made enough bad decisions) to utterly fail at something important (in DLC... DA4?), in which case there might have to be an NPC in their stead who'd have to do something in their stead - be it at stepping up at the role of a friend or someone whom Solas at least respects enough to listen to.

I'm not sure I understand. Solas' relationship between Varric/Cassandra? I didn't notice anything special between him and them. They had some banter but nothing that special. What NCP would replace who and are you talking about DA4?

[midnight tea]

I'm not sure I understand. Solas' relationship between Varric/Cassandra? I didn't notice anything special between him and them. They had some banter but nothing that special. What NCP would replace who and are you talking about DA4?

 

Nothing special? It's quite obvious from banter alone that Solas has great respect for Cassandra and seems to quite like Varric. What I mean is that these two NPCs are likely established to be 'replacement friends/people he respects', in case Inquisitor failed to do impress Solas in any way

[Illyria]

I think I've read a few times that initially DAI was just supposed to have human protagonist - with a lot indicating that it might originally been Hawke. With EA giving BW more development time, they eventually added more races to the mix (and I think that whatever they've cut to focus on adding those, they've eventually made the right decision). 

Therefore I'm not sure if the story is supposed to be specifically about elf Inquisitor - I think it's more like the story just appears to be that way, because of all the elf-related things in the background or the emerging realization that elvhen gods (or some really powerful beings) were actually real, and some actually walk Thedas today, trying to accomplish... well, something - be it revenge (Mythal), restoration of some sort (Solas/Fen'Harel) and Maker knows what else.

 

As for JOH and Ameridan - while the parallel between Lavellan and Ameridan is nice and all, the point of him being a.) Dalish and b.) mage, was there predominantly to show the efforts of Chantry (and those ruling Thedas, in general) to purge any mention of elves and mages from Thedosian history.

 

Originally DAI was human only.  The races were added in when the extra year was given.  A lot of DA2's scrapped expanion pack, Exalted March, was rolled into DAI (the Arbor Wilds, for example).  Gaider said it would've been different from DAI and hinted that it would not have ended well for Hawke and her lover.

[BoscoBread]

I'm not sure I understand. Solas' relationship between Varric/Cassandra? I didn't notice anything special between him and them. They had some banter but nothing that special. What NCP would replace who and are you talking about DA4?

Oooph.  Outside of the Inquisitor - romanced/friendly - Cass and Solas have quite a bond.  It was actually pretty powerful and I think if properly implemented later on could be really emotional for both.  As for varric:  varric is the only one outside of a Lavellan - that makes Solas think that moving forward and embracing a new future is worth it. 

 

I recommend go back listening to the banters for both on youtube.

[Sah291]

Nothing special? It's quite obvious from banter alone that Solas has great respect for Cassandra and seems to quite like Varric. What I mean is that these two NPCs are likely established to be 'replacement friends/people he respects', in case Inquisitor failed to do impress Solas in any way

Replacement friends...poor Solas.

But no I agree. I caught that between Varric and Solas in the opening, and their friendship grows in the banter.

[Abelas Forever!]

Oooph.  Outside of the Inquisitor - romanced/friendly - Cass and Solas have quite a bond.  It was actually pretty powerful and I think if properly implemented later on could be really emotional for both.  As for varric:  varric is the only one outside of a Lavellan - that makes Solas think that moving forward and embracing a new future is worth it. 

 

I recommend go back listening to the banters for both on youtube.

 

Nothing special? It's quite obvious from banter alone that Solas has great respect for Cassandra and seems to quite like Varric. What I mean is that these two NPCs are likely built to be 'replacement friends/people he respects', in case Inquisitor failed to do impress Solas in any way

I remember that he said that Cassandra has impressed him or something like that but I'm not sure what that means. He seems to respect people even though he doesn't like them.

 

I guess I should see those videos.

[Ardent Blossom]

I hope the choice of who drank from the Well will have some major implications. Maybe Morrigan or the IQ will be his "right hand" in DA4, similar to how Samson/Calpernia was to Cory in DAI. A relationship that will be made all the more interesting if it's Morrigan who dislikes him or if it's a romanced Inquisitor. 

Yeah...I can never drink from the Well. I didn't in my first play through because if Solas wouldn't I certainly wasn't going to. In subsequent play throughs I didn't because I was afraid Mythal would make me do something unpleasant to Solas in the future. Yup, I see Thedas through Solas colored glasses.

There needs to be some fall out from the geas in DLC. I'm still miffed about those darn indecipherable elven codices.

[midnight tea]

Yeah...I can never drink from the Well. I didn't in my first play through because if Solas wouldn't I certainly wasn't going to. In subsequent play throughs I didn't because I was afraid Mythal would make me do something unpleasant to Solas in the future. Yup, I see Thedas through Solas colored glasses.

There needs to be some fall out from the geas in DLC. I'm still miffed about those darn indecipherable elven codices.

 

I usually complete everything (zones, companion quests, etc.) before Temple of Mythal, so I can go straight to finale, just in case I wanted to replay TOM and switch from Morrigan to my IQ... for the sake of squeezing additional drama out of DLC (in case Well played any role in it)

[Ardent Blossom]

I usually complete everything before Temple of Mythal, so I can go straight to finale, just in case I wanted to replay TOM and switch from Morrigan to my IQ... for the sake of squeezing additional drama out of DLC (in case Well played any role in it)

I have a save for that too...don't we all?

[Gwyvian]

I was mostly making a jest that the Andrastian religion is a rip off of Christianity.  Because it is.

 

Regarding out-of-game lore: Yes.  I don't mind it perse - but like there was TOO much "stuff" in this game that required out of game context.  The entire Halamshiral sequence was all the more understandable if you read the companion book. 

 

The Solas romance even required Patrick Weekes to come in and remind people "hey, he still loves the Inquisitor" and it's like 'why do I need to know that? wouldn't it have been more interesting and compelling if they would have left that to the end and the resolution of the romance?' because - like you say - your character would NOT know this stuff.  Would not know that he was about to stay but then had to go - all of this will come out for them when he finally tells you who he was.  so shouldn't that be a nice little suprise for the player?

 

Corypheus came off to be a cheesy villain until you read the canticle of silence, out of game interviews, and then piece together what you get in game. come to find out he's incredibly tragic. 

 

What bothers me the most is the out-of-game interviews needed to actually get a better idea of the story. It's one thing to need supplemental material, but like, I shouldn't have to interview the author to get the point he was trying to make.  If I have to, they failed.

 

I don't know about this... I found Corypheus plenty tragic without having any of the out-of-game information at hand and I certainly didn't need the confirmation of Solas' feelings to know it; so as far as I'm concerned, they did do their job. Maybe it's not self-evident and maybe these facts are hidden in a mesh of details, but I know that my feelings on any of the characters, the story or any other element have not changed drastically from the initial impressions I got from the game, only perhaps deepened a bit here and there, but not to such a significant degree that I would say that the story needed the out-of-game content as a crutch. E.g. Halamshiral I really don't get - I understood all of it perfectly well before I ever read the book. The clues are all there. The only thing that changed for me after reading the book was that I felt more sympathy for Briala and less for Celene (meaning I already felt that way about them after Halamshiral to a degree), but I already knew what happened in a nutshell and I did not learn so much more that anything really changed for me in-game after that. Just like with other stories you see the aftermath of in-game or that you get a summary of, obviously the minute details are all missing and you get even the small references thereafter, but those are not necessary to understand the overall gist of events.

[Caddius]

I remember that he said that Cassandra has impressed him or something like that but I'm not sure what that means. He seems to respect people even though he doesn't like them.

 

I guess I should see those videos.

I've heard most of the Cassandra/Solas banter. They're very good friends.

Someone in this thread earlier posted something along the lines of how, whenever something weird comes up, Cassandra will bring it up to Solas later,

"Solas? What is the thing? Explain the thing."

And Solas does tend to gush over Cassandra. 

He and Varric butt heads a little more often, but they're still good friends. And Varric does get him to consider the fermented fruit juice, if only for a time. 

[midnight tea]

And Solas does tend to gush over Cassandra. 

 

Why wouldn't he? Cassandra is awesome

[Abelas Forever!]

I've heard most of the Cassandra/Solas banter. They're very good friends.

Someone in this thread earlier posted something along the lines of how, whenever something weird comes up, Cassandra will bring it up to Solas later,

"Solas? What is the thing? Explain the thing."

And Solas does tend to gush over Cassandra. 

He and Varric butt heads a little more often, but they're still good friends. And Varric does get him to consider the fermented fruit juice, if only for a time. 

I saw some of the banter and I started to remember the rest of them but to me it didn't seem that they are good friends. They get along well and it seems that they respect each others and share their opinions. But to me it didn't seem that they are good friends or even friends. I guess I just see it differently.

 

EDIT: I guess I see them like co-workers. They talk about things but when they have freetime then  they don't spend it together. They might like to work together etc but they want to spend their freetime with someone else.

[BoscoBread]

<snip>

 

Oh. I guess this is where you and I differ - I found Corypheus was more tragic with the extra material and his writing poor in game. But this is my opinion and certainly not fact.  Obviously you disagree.

 

As for Solas - no I didn't need it either. That was my point. I found the relationship plenty of emotional without the PW interview.  I thought that interview was totally unncessary and the info. presented in it, worven in the DLC or new game and in the conclusion to the romance.  If I was writing it, I would have preferred to keep the audience questioning - even a little - if he was sincere.  But again, opinion.