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[drosophila]

I actually think they're remarkably similar in that first aspect. Vivienne does want to help mages, and agrees if you say "Templars aren't the solution." She does want to regain the position of power she attained (and worked super hard for btw, being at a disadvantage both because of her birth and her magic), but she can and does use that power to improve the plight of mages if she becomes Divine. Specifically, mages have a lot more personal freedoms under her Circles, and Templars are the ones with less leeway. She crushes whatever's left of the rebellion, but of course she does. The vast majority of the ones we meet in Redcliffe didn't want to leave the Circle at all. She basically does decide that mages' lives will be better off in conditions she herself dictates......but what is Solas doing?

OK, that's a fair point, I didn't actually know what happens if she becomes Divine, but it doensn't sound bad. Also, I just wanted to say that I do appreciate how hard she worked and I actually liked her for her ambition at first. It's just the way she thinks that getting ahead makes her somehow better is what bothers me the most. 

 

 

He tells Flemeth "the People need me." Okay, but do they really? More importantly, would they even accept it? He's preaching a narrative completely counter to what the Dalish believe. The city elves are either like Sera or more focused on not angering the humans so they don't get killed. We don't know how he plans on improving the situation, but how do we know the elves will even like what he has in mind? Like Lavellan can say if he dismisses helping a city elf, "You're deciding his reaction for him." Sure he wants to help the elves, but apparently his idea of "help" is the one that they're just going to have to go along with, because everything points to his plans being big, whatever they are. Maybe he's not going "Now I have all the power and I rule the world, muahahahaha," but neither does Vivienne.

 

I have wondered myself if the people really need him the way he thinks. But I don't think by people he is referring to the modern elves. In fact, it's very probable that whatever he's planning to do will be detrimental to all the modern races. I think his people are ancient elves, spirits, gods, or something else entirely. 

 

 

He does, however, seem to think "Now I have this power, and I'm going to use it to help my people...the way I want." And so does Vivienne.

 

We really don't know if that's what he's thinking. I really think his mission runs contrary to what he wants, but he feels compelled to do it for some reason. He tells Cole he wouldn't wish the path he has to walk on his biggest enemy. There seems to be no happiness or personal gain left for him in this task. 

[nikki-tikki]

That isn't his motives.  That's history.  His motive is to find the orb and seal the breach.  He tells the Inquisitor both these things.

 

Except we don't know what his actual motives are. Why did he give the orb to Corypheus again? Why does he need to unlock it? 

 

We just don't know.

[BoscoBread]

Both of you are right. Solas does need the orb.  To seal the breach. But like...this isn't 'whoops I lost the car keys'. This is 'whoops I lost the magical elven artifact and we need it back. and by the way I kind of started it'.  So knowing that is sort of important because...why did he have the powerful orb to begin with? you have no back story Solas? etc. etc.(stuff we've gone over)

 

 The Inquisitor does recognize the weirdness too late and it's not like he's not going to do something big.  he didn't leave the inquisition to start "THE FADE EGG AND THE FRILLY CAKE: ARTISNAL PATISSERIE"  he's going to do something major.  so knowing why he had the orb to begin with may have clued the inquisitor in.  He is hiding things from you and I felt he was shady REALLY REALLY early on. But like...who cares. He's smart, nice, and helpful.  I'll take it!  I don't think we need to excuse it. for some players - obviously none on here - actually really thought that was a big deal.  they hate the guy. you've seen it.  I don't care.  the more screwed up the better! let's recruit the dead magisters!

[Illyria]

Except we don't know what his actual motives are. Why did he give the orb to Corypheus again? Why does he need to unlock it? 

 

We just don't know.

 

That's true, but it's also his motives outside of the events of Inquisition.  He's upfront with his reasons for joining the Inquistion.  Yeah, he has a greater plan which we know nothing about.

[nikki-tikki]

Both of you are right. Solas does need the orb.  To seal the breach. But like...this isn't 'whoops I lost the car keys'. This is 'whoops I lost the magical elven artifact and we need it back. and by the way I kind of started it'.  So knowing that is sort of important because...why did he have the powerful orb to begin with? you have no back story Solas? etc. etc.(stuff we've gone over)

 

 The Inquisitor does recognize the weirdness too late and it's not like he's not going to do something big.  he didn't leave the inquisition to start "THE FADE EGG AND THE FRILLY CAKE: ARTISNAL PATISSERIE"  he's going to do something major.  so knowing why he had the orb to begin with may have clued the inquisitor in.  He is hiding things from you and I felt he was shady REALLY REALLY early on. But like...who cares. He's smart, nice, and helpful.  I'll take it!  I don't think we need to excuse it. for some players - obviously none on here - actually really thought that was a big deal.  they hate the guy. you've seen it.  I don't care.  the more screwed up the better! let's recruit the dead magisters!

 

Don't forget Glittery elven gods. 

[drosophila]

"THE FADE EGG AND THE FRILLY CAKE: ARTISNAL PATISSERIE"  

 

LOL, this might actually be his plan. For all we know, he absorbed Flemythal for her secret frosting recipe. 

 

I want this bakery in Val Royeaux! Right. This. Second. 

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

That isn't his motives.  That's history.  His motive is to find the orb and seal the breach.  He tells the Inquisitor both these things.

Those arn't motives. Those are goals. He obfuscates on what his motives, his reasoning for doing things, is. 

 

And the fact that the orb is his and the explosion at the conclave is ultimately his fault are things he just outright lied by omission about. Not saying I don't understand him not coming clean about it. I do. But those details *are* things he was not upfront about.

[Illyria]

Both of you are right. Solas does need the orb.  To seal the breach. But like...this isn't 'whoops I lost the car keys'. This is 'whoops I lost the magical elven artifact and we need it back. and by the way I kind of started it'.  So knowing that is sort of important because...why did he have the powerful orb to begin with? you have no back story Solas? etc. etc.(stuff we've gone over)

 

 The Inquisitor does recognize the weirdness too late and it's not like he's not going to do something big.  he didn't leave the inquisition to start "THE FADE EGG AND THE FRILLY CAKE: ARTISNAL PATISSERIE"  he's going to do something major.  so knowing why he had the orb to begin with may have clued the inquisitor in.  He is hiding things from you and I felt he was shady REALLY REALLY early on. But like...who cares. He's smart, nice, and helpful.  I'll take it!  I don't think we need to excuse it. for some players - obviously none on here - actually really thought that was a big deal.  they hate the guy. you've seen it.  I don't care.  the more screwed up the better! let's recruit the dead magisters!

 

Maybe the DLC will prove you wrong.

 

If you spared the Sentinals then Abelas will be co-owner and the business is doing well.  If you didn't spare the Sentinals then he'll be having some financial trouble and has had to hire Tal Vashoth bakers.

[Sabriel.]

Its best not to compare Vivienne's future actions to Solas's because we have absolutely no clue what Solas is about to do next, exactly WHO he is referring to when he says "the People" or anything. Right now, all we know is that he went to see Flemeth/Mythal, was upset, she collapsed in his arms and he has glowy eyes. That's it. Everything else is speculation and as easy as it is to get caught up in fan theory, we know zip about what his future plans are.

This is all true, yes. At this point no fan theory is any more or less likely, so my interpretation isn't any less valid either. We know nothing about his plans, so we can't definitively say they are good. Mind you if I'm proven utterly wrong later (could very well happen since my early theories about Solas while first playing through were waaaay off) I won't be upset or anything.

Regarding who "The People" are. The only time I've ever heard that phrase used is in regards to elves--Flemythal herself uses it to describe Merrill and a Dalish Inquisitor, both mortals to boot. (And wow, someone playing without subtitles might be confused whenever someone says it...since they can't hear a capital letter. Oops.)

EDIT MIDNIGHT TEA AND DROSOPHILIA since I can't multiquote thanks for your replies as well!

[drosophila]

Maybe the DLC will prove you wrong.

 

If you spared the Sentinals then Abelas will be co-owner and the business is doing well.  If you didn't spare the Sentinals then he'll be having some financial trouble and has had to hire Tal Vashoth bakers.

 

Whoever drank from the Well is commanded to work as the server. In a French maid outfit. 

[Cee]

Those arn't motives. Those are goals. He obfuscates on what his motives, his reasoning for doing things, is. 

 

And the fact that the orb is his and the explosion at the conclave is ultimately his fault are things he just outright lied by omission about. Not saying I don't understand him not coming clean about it. I do. But those details *are* things he was not upfront about.

 

It was omission and obscuring details, taking many words to say a sentence when four would've done the trick. But he isn't outright lying. Still, he tells you why he's with the inquisition, which is what I said. He is with the inquisition because of history, because if Corypheus had merely died wherever he unlocked the orb, there would be no reason for him to have joined. He mentions it several times and is never unclear that he's trying to get the orb. You have several conversations where this comes up. This part is upfront. It is something you agree to do. He mentions it, he asks.

 

I had my questions about him throughout the entire thing. The missing details, the unchanging codex, some of his hesitations. I had them in my mind and figured we'd get more later. We kind of did, but as he says "the answers would only lead to more questions"

 

Still, whatever his plans are for the orb that's another thing entirely. Future.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

While Solas was mentioned, I agree that he's not in it for himself. He's still straightforward with you in a really obscured way, so it is a form of deception by omission and use for his own ends, but he asks, you discuss things, he explicitly states the main thread of what he's after. There's clearly more, but the fact he's not in it for himself is important.

Could argue being in it to assuage your guilt is, in a way, being in it for yourself. Solas wants to help The People, but he's specifically desperate to fix his own mistakes. And he wants to do so relying only on himself and how he thinks it should happen. I don't blame him for wanting to fix what he thinks he's screwed up or anything. Just saying that acting b/c otherwise he can't live with himself is part of his motivation.

[Cee]

Maybe the DLC will prove you wrong.

 

If you spared the Sentinals then Abelas will be co-owner and the business is doing well.  If you didn't spare the Sentinals then he'll be having some financial trouble and has had to hire Tal Vashoth bakers.

 

 

Bread Wolf DLC

[RynJ]

Could argue being in it to assuage your guilt is, in a way, being in it for yourself. Solas wants to help The People, but he's specifically desperate to fix his own mistakes. And he wants to do so relying only on himself and how he thinks it should happen. I don't blame him for wanting to fix what he thinks he's screwed up or anything. Just saying that acting b/c otherwise he can't live with himself is part of his motivation.

 

I highly doubt assuaging guilt is even close to his main motivation. The guy wants to change things, that's how he got to this position of feeling guilty in the first place. He wants to fix things because his original actions made things worse and he's decided that a different method of change has to be used now. He does seem to truly believe that what he's doing is to help "the people" and not himself. 

[BoscoBread]

@Illyria - he should know better than to go into business with friends. the business seems ok with abelas, but then both are arguing whether or not to add a savory foods café. solas says "NO! STAY TRUE TO THE SWEET TOOH!  ONLY CAKES". Abelas is like, 'look bro, we need more customers. we're on an side street, we don't get enough foot traffic. we need to get a chef in here and start a full menu."

 

then it goes straight to hell. the business closes. their reputations as restauranteurs RUINED. they WILL NEVER WORK IN VAL ROYEAUX AGAIN! abelas leaves to start a free range chicken farm in fereldan and takes on 6 wives like some weird hippie cult leader. and solas sells donuts out of a food cart that travels around denerim. 

[drosophila]

Could argue being in it to assuage your guilt is, in a way, being in it for yourself. Solas wants to help The People, but he's specifically desperate to fix his own mistakes. And he wants to do so relying only on himself and how he thinks it should happen. I don't blame him for wanting to fix what he thinks he's screwed up or anything. Just saying that acting b/c otherwise he can't live with himself is part of his motivation.

 

I think he's in it to fix his mistakes and it is right to do so. If you made a mess, you clean it. 

 

I don't think he's doing it to assuage his guilt. He seems to feel really guilty and nothing he does will bring back things exactly to the way they were. I don't think his guilt will go away, nor that he wants it to. Midnight Tea pointed out a great quote from him a few days ago, "Honor your mistakes, because there might be times they're all you're left with." (not an exact quote) Cole tells him at one point he could "let them go" and he admits he knows that, yet he doesn't. I think he thinks it's fair for him to feel regret and it's not looking for it to go away. 

[nikki-tikki]

@Illyria - he should know better than to go into business with friends. the business seems ok with abelas, but then both are arguing whether or not to add a savory foods café. solas says "NO! STAY TRUE TO THE SWEET TOOH!  ONLY CAKES". Abelas is like, 'look bro, we need more customers. we're on an side street, we don't get enough foot traffic. we need to get a chef in here and start a full menu."

 

then it goes straight to hell. the business closes. their reputations as restauranteurs RUINED. they WILL NEVER WORK IN VAL ROYEAUX AGAIN! abelas leaves to start a free range chicken farm in fereldan and takes on 6 wives like some weird hippie cult leader. and solas sells donuts out of a food cart that travels around denerim. 

 

i thought you were gunna end it with Hobo Solas. Disappoint. 

[Sabriel.]

In fairness to Solas' lying through omission about the Orb, well. If he ever came clean about his exact involvement there, he'd probably be dead. Cassandra was ready to have him executed in the early days just for having little success in stopping the Breach. But knowing he helped cause it? Hahaha.

This is why I hope any potential reunion with him allows my Lavellan to shout and throw things and hit him before they make out.

[MoonDrummer]

 I don't care.  the more screwed up the better! let's recruit the dead magisters!

What about kings from different franchises? 

[midnight tea]

This is why I hope any potential reunion with him allows my Lavellan to shout and throw things and hit him before they make out.

 

I keep predicting that "slap-then-kiss" option would likely be the most popular one picked by those who romanced him (in case they actually gave us that option!)

 

I wonder however what options will be there for befriended Inquisitors?

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[drosophila]

@Illyria - he should know better than to go into business with friends. the business seems ok with abelas, but then both are arguing whether or not to add a savory foods café. solas says "NO! STAY TRUE TO THE SWEET TOOH!  ONLY CAKES". Abelas is like, 'look bro, we need more customers. we're on an side street, we don't get enough foot traffic. we need to get a chef in here and start a full menu."

 

then it goes straight to hell. the business closes. their reputations as restauranteurs RUINED. they WILL NEVER WORK IN VAL ROYEAUX AGAIN! abelas leaves to start a free range chicken farm in fereldan and takes on 6 wives like some weird hippie cult leader. and solas sells donuts out of a food cart that travels around denerim. 

 

I think the business failed, because he refused to sell tea along with the cakes. 

[BoscoBread]

@MoonDrummer - The more the merrier. You could just have The Wild Hunt open a portal - their beautiful bone ship filled to the brim with the most wonderful and sexual army - EREDIN, AVALLAC'H, CARANTHIR!!!  

 

I guess loony Radovid could be there. He's good at war.

 

Also, STAVOS!

[midnight tea]

I think the business failed, because he refused to sell tea along with the cakes. 

 

No tea??? This is an OUTRAGE!

[Cee]

In fairness to Solas' lying through omission about the Orb, well. If he ever came clean about his exact involvement there, he'd probably be dead. Cassandra was ready to have him executed in the early days just for having little success in stopping the Breach. But knowing he helped cause it? Hahaha.

This is why I hope any potential reunion with him allows my Lavellan to shout and throw things and hit him before they make out.

 

Somehow, even while not at anywhere close to full power, I think he could've taken multiple pursuers, if not escaped. He knows the eluvian network. He dodges Leliana's people and vanishes. He's a Rift Mage which is such a rare and strong practice. Still, he had to be modest for self-preservation and indeed, he does use a form of manipulative nudging but he's also not a huge liar either.

 

But we'll see where this goes in DLC and beyond.