This is why I really hope it's a DLC which acts as an finale. Once you're done, you're sent back to a save point before the endgame.
I've given up on Solas coming back as a party member - besides, that'd be really anticlimactic, and I doubt we'd be realistically able to convince him anyway - but I think my Lavellan at least deserves some explanation, even if it's a case of him or the Inqusition. I'm probably on team bittersweet at the moment.
So I'm in that dungeon below the Dead Hand in the exalted plains, solving the puzzle. I didn't think of it before, but what does it mean? Have you guys discussed it before?
I assume it's an ancient elven puzzle from before the fall. An archer (Andruil?) shoots a magical arrow into a pair of halla horns (Ghilan'nain?), but a wolf is in the way (Fen'Harel?). The codex of Falon'Din's down there, could this place have been his? Maybe there were two factions in the past, and Andruil and Falon'Din were in one and Ghilan'nain and Fen'Harel were in the other.
Also what does this circle surrounding the horns mean? It's all over the walls, too.
SIgh... I used to just enjoy the fun puzzles. You guys are a bad influence 
This is why I really hope it's a DLC which acts as an finale. Once you're done, you're sent back to a save point before the endgame.
I've given up on Solas coming back as a party member - besides, that'd be really anticlimactic, and I doubt we'd be realistically able to convince him anyway - but I think my Lavellan at least deserves some explanation, even if it's a case of him or the Inqusition. I'm probably on team bittersweet at the moment.
He seemed pretty determined that we were not going to even have the option to follow him. He might need the power of the Anchor, but even then I think what we're most likely to get is an explanation and a heartfelt farewell. The game is not built to have an actual ending, so unless any DLC that might deal with this (and there might not be any such DLC, although it seems likely and probably even planned from early on that there should be) does it the way ME3's ending did, it doesn't look promising for Solas and Lavellan on the romance front.
I guess I'll be fine with it if it really does turn out that way--it'll be sad, I'm sure, but if there's resolution at all to allow my Inquisitor to understand and move on, then I can't complain too much.
Something to consider, too: Unless your Dalish character wasn't a very good Dalish elf/didn't agree with her clan much, it may be a bit too much for the relationship to suddenly realize that Solas is Fen'harel. It's pretty much certain that if there is post-campaign DLC, we're going to learn who he is. Even with evidence to suggest he's not at all like what Lavellan thought, she's been taught since she was an infant that Fen'harel is hateful and spiteful and cunning and pretty much hates the People. Depending how the information is revealed, her reaction could realistically be very knee-jerk, even after learning that Fen'harel is a "noble rebel" and even knowing that Solas in fact does care deeply for all the people of Thedas.
So I'm in that dungeon below the Dead Hand in the exalted plains, solving the puzzle. I didn't think of it before, but what does it mean? Have you guys discussed it before?
Spoiler
I assume it's an ancient elven puzzle from before the fall. An archer (Andruil?) shoots a magical arrow into a pair of halla horns (Ghilan'nain?), but a wolf is in the way (Fen'Harel?). The codex of Falon'Din's down there, could this place have been his? Maybe there were two factions in the past, and Andruil and Falon'Din were in one and Ghilan'nain and Fen'Harel were in the other.
Also what does this circle surrounding the horns mean? It's all over the walls, too.
SIgh... I used to just enjoy the fun puzzles. You guys are a bad influence
I think those are stylized trees, not halla antlers. Trees would represent Mythal or Falon'din.
That puzzle and area is something I suspect might actually be tied to Fen'harel. In that same region in the Crow Fens, you will find an ancient shrine to Fen'harel. Solas approves if you place a landmark flag there.
As for the meaning, well... we've seen wolves as guardians in elven lore. They protected the Emerald Knights. Fen'harel's likeness was also meant to keep demons away. The archer does not appear to be female, so it's probably not Andruil (though who it could be, if not just a generic person, I don't know). If the trees represent Mythal, then there's your most likely answer: Fen'harel is Mythal's protector. If the archer does represent Andruil, it may suggest that she had some animosity toward Mythal. SInce the trees contain lights, it could also imply some meaning for the ancient Emerald Knights who guarded against dangers from the Fade--thus it could be that the trees actually represent Falon'din and have some importance to the Emerald Knights. Solas says that Falon'din was vain, so perhaps the giant hand was once part of Falon'din's likeness.
If it were Ghilan'ain then it would imply that Fen'harel was trying to guard Ghilan'ain (likely from Andruil). But again, I think they are trees, not antlers.
Wouldn't it have been wonderful if Solas had just been able to be up front about the whole ancient elf schtick and actually told us about all the elfy stuff we ran across? Sera would have hated him for it, I guess, but everyone else could have greatly benefited from his knowledge. Well, assuming they believed him. Which they probably wouldn't. Which is why he wouldn't tell anyone.
Guest_Chiara Fan_*
Speaking of my warrior playthrough - I randomly picked Dorian and Solas to complete some side-missions post-Temple Of Mythal (where I allied with Sentinels, as usual)... and I got a dialogue I haven't heard before:
Dorian: We found elves, living ancient elves, at the Temple of Mythal. Does that bother you, Solas?
Solas: I'm pleased we were not forced to kill them, if that's what you mean.Dorian: I mean them being there at all. Thousands of years later, and they live.
Dorian: There could be others, in ruins we haven't yet discovered. Shouldn't we be looking for them?
Solas: Perhaps Abelas will do that.
Dorian: Hmm, I wonder if that's a good thing?
.... Foreshadowing?
You mean you think he plans to find other ancient elves to raise an army to rebuild Elvhenan?
If so, I want to sign up!
(Although they probably wouldn't let a shemlen like my "shadow wearing vallaslin" join... *grumble grumble*)
I think those are stylized trees, not halla antlers. Trees would represent Mythal or Falon'din.
That puzzle and area is something I suspect might actually be tied to Fen'harel. In that same region in the Crow Fens, you will find an ancient shrine to Fen'harel. Solas approves if you place a landmark flag there.
As for the meaning, well... we've seen wolves as guardians in elven lore. They protected the Emerald Knights. Fen'harel's likeness was also meant to keep demons away. The archer does not appear to be female, so it's probably not Andruil (though who it could be, if not just a generic person, I don't know). If the trees represent Mythal, then there's your most likely answer: Fen'harel is Mythal's protector. If the archer does represent Andruil, it may suggest that she had some animosity toward Mythal. SInce the trees contain lights, it could also imply some meaning for the ancient Emerald Knights who guarded against dangers from the Fade--thus it could be that the trees actually represent Falon'din and have some importance to the Emerald Knights. Solas says that Falon'din was vain, so perhaps the giant hand was once part of Falon'din's likeness.
If it were Ghilan'ain then it would imply that Fen'harel was trying to guard Ghilan'ain (likely from Andruil). But again, I think they are trees, not antlers.
Wouldn't it have been wonderful if Solas had just been able to be up front about the whole ancient elf schtick and actually told us about all the elfy stuff we ran across? Sera would have hated him for it, I guess, but everyone else could have greatly benefited from his knowledge. Well, assuming they believed him. Which they probably wouldn't. Which is why he wouldn't tell anyone.
He seemed pretty determined that we were not going to even have the option to follow him. He might need the power of the Anchor, but even then I think what we're most likely to get is an explanation and a heartfelt farewell. The game is not built to have an actual ending, so unless any DLC that might deal
Something to consider, too: Unless your Dalish character wasn't a very good Dalish elf/didn't agree with her clan much, it may be a bit too much for the relationship to suddenly realize that Solas is Fen'harel. It's pretty much certain that if there is post-campaign DLC, we're going to learn who he is. Even with evidence to suggest he's not at all like what Lavellan thought, she's been taught since she was an infant that Fen'harel is hateful and spiteful and cunning and pretty much hates the People. Depending how the information is revealed, her reaction could realistically be very knee-jerk, even after learning that Fen'harel is a "noble rebel" and even knowing that Solas in fact does care deeply for all the people of Thedas.
I hope they leave the reaction to the player. My Lavellan's not even an authentic Dalish, and never believed.
I think those are stylized trees, not halla antlers. Trees would represent Mythal or Falon'din.
*snip*
Thanks! Yeah, the place could belong to Fen'Harel, either from ancient times, or was dedicated to him during the time of the Dalish kingdom. I'd frgotten, but when you solve the puzzle, a door opens to a room with three wolf statues surrounding a superb amulet of cunning, of all things.
Thanks! Yeah, the place could belong to Fen'Harel, either from ancient times, or was dedicated to him during the time of the Dalish kingdom. I'd frgotten, but when you solve the puzzle, a door opens to a room with three wolf statues surrounding a superb amulet of cunning, of all things.
Yeah, yeah... a shrine of Fen'Harel.... in a place called Ghilan'nan's Grove?
....Why can't I shake a feeling I've had for a while, that these two were an item at one point?
Yeah, yeah... a shrine of Fen'Harel.... in a place called Ghilan'nan's Grove?
....Why can't I shake a feeling I've had for a while, that these two were an item at one point?
I suppose gods have been known to dally across their own pantheon in our real life mythology, but just because evidence of one member is scattered around in temples dedicated to a specific god it doesn't mean anything intimate was happening. If Fen'Harel had been some sort of protector figure, of course his image would be around the place.
But even if they were, eh, who cares. Not like he had to be celibate all those years. We went through this with the "OMG Solas and Mythal were lovers!" phase. Good for him, I say. 
I suppose gods have been known to dally across their own pantheon in our real life mythology, but just because evidence of one member is scattered around in temples dedicated to a specific god it doesn't mean anything intimate was happening. If Fen'Harel had been some sort of protector figure, of course his image would be around the place.
But even if they were, eh, who cares. Not like he had to be celibate all those years. We went through this with the "OMG Solas and Mythal were lovers!" phase. Good for him, I say.
I suppose gods have been known to dally across their own pantheon in our real life mythology, but just because evidence of one member is scattered around in temples dedicated to a specific god it doesn't mean anything intimate was happening. If Fen'Harel had been some sort of protector figure, of course his image would be around the place.
But even if they were, eh, who cares. Not like he had to be celibate all those years. We went through this with the "OMG Solas and Mythal were lovers!" phase. Good for him, I say.
I just think it might be the case - and while I know there's not much proof, I also can't shake the feeling that it might even have more story significance than a vague proof that elvhen gods are pretty much the the equivalent for our Greek gods, lol.
It would certainly bring new contex to Andruil wanting to punish Fen'Harel in one of elven tales for hunting the halla ;P
But even if they were, eh, who cares. Not like he had to be celibate all those years. We went through this with the "OMG Solas and Mythal were lovers!" phase. Good for him, I say.
If they were, I'd be more interested in figuring out what happened. He was clearly betrayed at some point, what if it was his lover and not a friend who did it?
If they were, I'd be more interested in figuring out what happened. He was clearly betrayed at some point, what if it was his lover and not a friend who did it?
It's possible. I tend to not like "my lover betrayed me" plots though, because ugh. We've seen that before, right up there with dead wife stories. If Solas suddenly had a woman in his past who screwed him over (bonus points if he then killed her or watched her die!) I will take back every bit of praise I gave DAI for not having that old trope used for a love interest and kindly request that the writers get their collective heads out of their goddamn backsides. Enough is seriously enough.
I'd find it way more interesting if it was a friend, or the rest of his brethren. Someone important, but without the "mai troo luv" bull**** slapped across it.
It's possible. I tend to not like "my lover betrayed me" plots though, because ugh. We've seen that before, right up there with dead wife stories. If Solas suddenly had a woman in his past who screwed him over (bonus points if he then killed her or watched her die!) I will take back every bit of praise I gave DAI for not having that old trope used for a love interest and kindly request that the writers get their collective heads out of their goddamn backsides. Enough is seriously enough.
I'd find it way more interesting if it was a friend, or the rest of his brethren. Someone important, but without the "mai troo luv" bull**** slapped across it.
TBH, I can't really see the difference between a friend and a lover. Either way there's some serious emotional damage and breaking of trust done. There's also a possibility that it could be both, or more - the relationship could be more complicated than that of the typical trope.
It's possible. I tend to not like "my lover betrayed me" plots though, because ugh. We've seen that before, right up there with dead wife stories. If Solas suddenly had a woman in his past who screwed him over (bonus points if he then killed her or watched her die!) I will take back every bit of praise I gave DAI for not having that old trope used for a love interest and kindly request that the writers get their collective heads out of their goddamn backsides. Enough is seriously enough.
I'd find it way more interesting if it was a friend, or the rest of his brethren. Someone important, but without the "mai troo luv" bull**** slapped across it.
For me, an old trope in skilled hands can still be a very touching and enjoyable story. If Weekes puts in earnest effort, and with the excellent voice acting, I doubt it would feel cliched.
It's possible. I tend to not like "my lover betrayed me" plots though, because ugh. We've seen that before, right up there with dead wife stories. If Solas suddenly had a woman in his past who screwed him over (bonus points if he then killed her or watched her die!) I will take back every bit of praise I gave DAI for not having that old trope used for a love interest and kindly request that the writers get their collective heads out of their goddamn backsides. Enough is seriously enough.
I'd find it way more interesting if it was a friend, or the rest of his brethren. Someone important, but without the "mai troo luv" bull**** slapped across it.
I agree, but somehow I suspect it was his lover who betrayed him. I also suspect that she may not have been Ghilan'ain but some ordinary elf.
Regarding Ghilan'ain--we know she had some sort of tie to Andruil. She created the halla as a gift to Andruil, presumably for the sake of hunting halla. And there's some vague hint that halla were created from elven slaves (very vague, it's just a painting in red and black and white of elves inside of a deer-like creature--blood magic or sacrifice to create/alter a different existing creature, or to make elves into deer?). So it's plausible she and Andruil were lovers.
Fen'harel hunting the halla could have romantic connotations, as could the presence of his shrines in Ghilan'ain's Grove. But he is in the Crow Fens, and there is also a shrine to Fen'harel there. A shrine to Sylaise is not too far away on the map, either, but no one suggests Solas and Sylaise might have been together... That said? Fen'harel's "hunting the halla" might have been less romantic and more aggressive. If Ghilan'ain were the halla, and we're not talking about a literal halla (which he could have been hunting for any number of reasons including feeling it was kinder to kill elves transformed in such a way--if they were originally elves-- than to allow them to continue living as beasts), Solas may have felt she was dangerous or a threat to the People in some way. In that case, he may have been trying to capture or kill her.
As for other possible romantic entanglements, well, there is that one myth about Fen'harel being tied to a tree while Anaris and Andruil argued over him, and Andruil wanted to make him her lover for a year and a day. If Andruil wanted him and she was also courting Ghilan'ain, it's possible she was bisexual. It's also possible she simply wanted children, and didn't actually want Fen'harel for any other purpose. Other possibilities? It was a polyamorous relationship and Ghilan'ain, Andruil, and Fen'harel were all together with one another. Or, Andruil and Fen'harel were together and then Andruil left Solas for Ghilan'ain.
What we definitely do know is that Solas is deeply in love with a romanced Lavellan, and that appears to be an exclusive relationship. Therefore, his past romances shouldn't really matter that much to us. Maybe Lavellan means more to him than anyone else ever did. Maybe not. That doesn't matter, because what they had was real, as Solas himself declares.
There's also a good possibility that the romance is already doomed, and will never be picked back up. I know it's a negative thought, but in that case, does it matter if Solas had another lover, or is going to in the future? If we get DLC telling us it's truly over, then it's truly over. (Even though I hope there's some means to stay with him, somehow.) Lavellan's an amazing person, and she can totally find someone else if she wants to. If she doesn't want to, then she doesn't have to live her life moping about the loss of Solas. I mean, she has much bigger concerns than her love life.
There's also a good possibility that the romance is already doomed, and will never be picked back up. I know it's a negative thought, but in that case, does it matter if Solas had another lover, or is going to in the future? If we get DLC telling us it's truly over, then it's truly over. (Even though I hope there's some means to stay with him, somehow.) Lavellan's an amazing person, and she can totally find someone else if she wants to. If she doesn't want to, then she doesn't have to live her life moping about the loss of Solas. I mean, she has much bigger concerns than her love life.
That's easier said than done, I think
I mean, look at Solas - so focused on his mission, so many things being more important than his past relationships... yet he can't get over the betrayal (whether a friend or a lover or ally - or all those (in plural)), that was served to him in the past - to a point that he's withdrawn completely to Fade, has no friends other than spirits and reveals to Lavellan that he was unable to trust anyone for a very long time. Moving on can be difficult.
Whether it would be easier for Lavellan, we'll just have to wait and see, just like we'd just have to wait and see what happened (in the past) and what will happen when it comes to Inquisitors - whether befriended, romanced or not really in good terms with Solas.
It is however interesting to wonder how alncient elves viewed relationships (be it friendships or else), especially considering that they were immortal, magical and connected to the Fade in some special way. After all, one of the codexes on Falon/Din and Dirthamenn mentions that ancient elvhen relationships were complicated and maybe even beyond comprehension of mere humans/mortals.
That's easier said than done, I think
I mean, look at Solas - so focused on his mission, so many things being more important than his past relationships... yet he can't get over the betrayal (whether a friend or a lover or ally - or all those (in plural)), that was served to him in the past - to a point that he's withdrawn completely to Fade, has no friends other than spirits and reveals to Lavellan that he was unable to trust anyone for a very long time. Moving on can be difficult.
Whether it would be easier for Lavellan, we'll just have to wait and see, just like we'd just have to wait and see what happened (in the past) and what will happen when it comes to Inquisitors - whether befriended, romanced or not really in good terms with Solas.
Speaking of not being on good terms with him, I kind of want to play an uber-Andrastian just to see how he reacts to someone who he hates, and hear what he has to say.
I also still haven't done a just-friends run with him, so I should do that too. Maybe if I get him angry I can figure out more about who he is and what he is up to. Maybe not.
Hi all, I've been lurking for a while but wanted to post something when it was relevant:
The statue representing Ghilan'nain has some sort of mark on its back. I thought it could've been a scratch or claw marks and therefore related to Fen'harel hunting the halla?
I do enjoy reading the theories on this thread 
.
I agree, but somehow I suspect it was his lover who betrayed him. I also suspect that she may not have been Ghilan'ain but some ordinary elf.
Regarding Ghilan'ain--we know she had some sort of tie to Andruil. She created the halla as a gift to Andruil, presumably for the sake of hunting halla. And there's some vague hint that halla were created from elven slaves (very vague, it's just a painting in red and black and white of elves inside of a deer-like creature--blood magic or sacrifice to create/alter a different existing creature, or to make elves into deer?). So it's plausible she and Andruil were lovers.
Fen'harel hunting the halla could have romantic connotations, as could the presence of his shrines in Ghilan'ain's Grove. But he is in the Crow Fens, and there is also a shrine to Fen'harel there. A shrine to Sylaise is not too far away on the map, either, but no one suggests Solas and Sylaise might have been together... That said? Fen'harel's "hunting the halla" might have been less romantic and more aggressive. If Ghilan'ain were the halla, and we're not talking about a literal halla (which he could have been hunting for any number of reasons including feeling it was kinder to kill elves transformed in such a way--if they were originally elves-- than to allow them to continue living as beasts), Solas may have felt she was dangerous or a threat to the People in some way. In that case, he may have been trying to capture or kill her.
Well, there's also Solas saying how peaceful Ghilan'nain's grove feels to him. In his sing-song romance!Solas voice, or at least that's how it sounded to me.
As for other possible romantic entanglements, well, there is that one myth about Fen'harel being tied to a tree while Anaris and Andruil argued over him, and Andruil wanted to make him her lover for a year and a day. If Andruil wanted him and she was also courting Ghilan'ain, it's possible she was bisexual. It's also possible she simply wanted children, and didn't actually want Fen'harel for any other purpose.
I really don't think that legend, if true, indicates there was something between Fen'Harel and Andruil. It seems he wasn't very interested in her.
Other possibilities? It was a polyamorous relationship and Ghilan'ain, Andruil, and Fen'harel were all together with one another.
Hehe, not impossible, the way I imagine the pantheon lived back then. They threw these extravagant sex parties and all nine of them would attend. ("I do adore the heady blend of... sex that permeates these events.")
Or, Andruil and Fen'harel were together and then Andruil left Solas for Ghilan'ain.
Or Ghilan'nain left Andruil for Fen'Harel?
What we definitely do know is that Solas is deeply in love with a romanced Lavellan, and that appears to be an exclusive relationship. Therefore, his past romances shouldn't really matter that much to us. Maybe Lavellan means more to him than anyone else ever did. Maybe not. That doesn't matter, because what they had was real, as Solas himself declares.
Hi all, I've been lurking for a while but wanted to post something when it was relevant:
The statue representing Ghilan'nain has some sort of mark on its back. I thought it could've been a scratch or claw marks and therefore related to Fen'harel hunting the halla?
Well duh... its a cutie mark!!
Speaking of not being on good terms with him, I kind of want to play an uber-Andrastian just to see how he reacts to someone who he hates, and hear what he has to say.
I also still haven't done a just-friends run with him, so I should do that too. Maybe if I get him angry I can figure out more about who he is and what he is up to. Maybe not.
I'm yet to play Assquisitor... I just can't really be mean to companions and strive to have at least decent relationships with most of them with most of my characters ;P
With that said, all my other Inquisitors aside of my elf mage have befriended him, so I've explored everything from the 'friend' side... and watched the 'disliked' side on Youtube
I'm yet to play Assquisitor... I just can't really be mean to companions and strive to have at least decent relationships with most of them with most of my characters ;P
With that said, all my other Inquisitors aside of my elf mage have befriended him, so I've explored everything from the 'friend' side... and watched the 'disliked' side on Youtube
It's really tough to make him hate you. I tried with my Andrastian warrior, who was not a jerk, just had completely opposing world views, and I still became best buddies with him. (On the bright side, that's how I realized Lavellan could be played as rivalmance.) My husband is playing a Cadash Assquisitor and already has Cassandra and Blackwall hate him, but not Solas. It seems you have to make all the major choices he disapproves and be a jerk.
I'm yet to play Assquisitor... I just can't really be mean to companions and strive to have at least decent relationships with most of them with most of my characters ;P
With that said, all my other Inquisitors aside of my elf mage have befriended him, so I've explored everything from the 'friend' side... and watched the 'disliked' side on Youtube
Yeah, just don't go there Brass_Buckles ! Watch it on YT, it's just too painful in game, seriously
Had a weird and entirely unlikely thought:
What if we do get post-campaign DLC and Solas needs the Anchor? If you drank the Well, he compels you (whether he intends to or not) to aid him. If not, he manages another method to take the Anchor.
The Inquisitor is left depowered at the end, only to return as the protagonist of DA4, starting at where he or she began--but with more life experience.
It's not likely we'd see a returning protagonist, but that's one way they could manage it without it seeming strange we were having to start over again. Also, without the mark, few people would recognize you as the Inquisitor. Even those who did might think it meant you'd lost the Maker's favor, etc. So you no longer have an army at your back (assuming you make it home to Skyhold in time to avoid someone else being named Inquisitor).
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