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Solas Thread - NOW OFFICIALLY MOVED to Cyonan's BSN (link in OP)


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#110526
FrankWisdom

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It's an interesting breakdown, though it doesn't explain how come Dagna thinks that lyrium and Fade are linked. Then there's the fact that magisters used inordinate amounts of blood and lyrium to cross the Veil into the Fade... Or the fact that lyrium can send an (awake) mage straight into the Fade, or that blood magic can help control others or find their dreams (from the Fade, I assume). Blood magic can also be used to summon demons or pull spirits out of Fade, and blood mages are easier targets for possession.

 

And then there's Solas who claims that "magic is magic, just like water is water - it only differs how it's used". 

 

IMO magic has one source, but the way it's "channeled" changes its properties. And lyrium and blood may be sources of magic that's are too... "real", compared to 'raw' magic coming directly from the Fade.

 

Spoiler

Actually it pretty much does. I believe the reason Dagna finds a relationship between Lyrium and the fade is because they both had a type of symbiotic relationship before the veil. I believe they are both sides of the same coin. they are like opposites which balance each other out. I believe this is why Templar powers effectively "cancel out" mage powers.

 

It would then also explain the use of Lyrium and blood magic to break into the fade. Remember, the goal of the Magisters was to enter the Fade *physically*. If Lyrium is a weaker source of Titan's blood and acts as a counterbalance to the Fade, then it would be the perfect source of magic to use in order to break the veil. Remember, given the Elvhen artifacts we activate in Inquisition strengthen the veil, it's safe to assume The Veil was also created with Fade magic i.e. Elvhen magic. The use of blood magic then also becomes a logical conclusion. Solas explains that blood magic has the side effect of making it harder for the user to enter the Fade. He is speaking of entering The Fade in spirit form, not physically. If blood magic also causes a loss in connection with the Fade through dreaming, it would explain it's use in breaching the veil.

 

And then there's Solas who claims that "magic is magic, just like water is water - it only differs how it's used".

 

What Solas means is that water has no form, it takes on whatever shape it is surrounded by and can be shaped in the same way. Think of Bruce Lee and the famous quote "Be like water." He means adapt to your surroundings to fit the situation. Basically Solas is saying magic is not inherently good or bad, it's simply a tool. How the user decides to use that tool is what determines the good or bad label. You've got to put things in context. He was speaking about blood magic and how it is viewed as inherently evil and unnatural.


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#110527
Sable Rhapsody

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Does MEHEM have the option to punch the Catalyst though? Because that's what I want, honestly. I can deal with dying heroically to save the world, I think, just not with a patronising AI and rubbish game mechanics.

 
MEHEM gets rid of it altogether.  Which is perfect for me; I think I'm happier pretending it never existed :)

I've been out of the loop for a long time.  Any news on Solas and post-ending Solas stuff?


Nope! There's supposed to be a Dragon Age announcement of some kind at PAX Prime though.
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#110528
midnight tea

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Actually it pretty much does. I believe the reason Dagna finds a relationship between Lyrium and the fade is because they both had a type of symbiotic relationship before the veil. I believe they are both sides of the same coin. they are like opposites which balance each other out. I believe this is why Templar powers effectively "cancel out" mage powers.

 

... Then how come Cassandra can do the same? She uses the same power, yet the power was bestowed to her by the spirit of Faith. It is, very much, a type of Fade magic, and Lucius Corin even alludes that Seekers are, indeed, abominations.

 

Seems that it's basically Seeker's faith that reinforces reality - that is, will and belief. And I suspect the same thing happens with lyrium or blood magic, only in a somewhat roundabout way. Those who use it don' necessarily draw from THEIR will, but the will of creatures whose life-force (blood or lyrium) can be used to reinforce reality - or split it.

 

 

It would then also explain the use of Lyrium and blood magic to break into the fade. Remember, the goal of the Magisters was to enter the Fade *physically*. If Lyrium is a weaker source of Titan's blood and acts as a counterbalance to the Fade, then it would be the perfect source of magic to use in order to break the veil. Remember, given the Elvhen artifacts we activate in Inquisition strengthen the veil, it's safe to assume The Veil was also created with Fade magic i.e. Elvhen magic. The use of blood magic then also becomes a logical conclusion. Solas explains that blood magic has the side effect of making it harder for the user to enter the Fade. He is speaking of entering The Fade in spirit form, not physically. If blood magic also causes a loss in connection with the Fade through dreaming, it would explain it's use in breaching the veil.

 

Neither of this negates what I said, in fact it can work quite well with the theory that lyrium and blood react and interact with the Fade the way they do, because they're a life-force of living, physical creatures: something that is the opposite of what is in the Fade, that seems to be all about incorporeal.

 

 

What Solas means is that water has no form, it takes on whatever shape it is surrounded by and can be shaped in the same way. Think of Bruce Lee and the famous quote "Be like water." He means adapt to your surroundings to fit the situation. Basically Solas is saying magic is not inherently good or bad, it's simply a tool. How the user decides to use that tool is what determines the good or bad label. You've got to put things in context. He was speaking about blood magic and how it is viewed as inherently evil and unnatural.

 

No, actually - the 'magic is magic and water is water' wasn't an answer to question about blood magic, but the differences between elven and human magic. Solas later reinstates that 'magic is magic' in context of blood magic, but the initial question was about the difference between magic itself.


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#110529
drosophila

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What Solas means is that water has no form, it takes on whatever shape it is surrounded by and can be shaped in the same way. Think of Bruce Lee and the famous quote "Be like water." He means adapt to your surroundings to fit the situation. Basically Solas is saying magic is not inherently good or bad, it's simply a tool. How the user decides to use that tool is what determines the good or bad label. You've got to put things in context. He was speaking about blood magic and how it is viewed as inherently evil and unnatural.

 

Actually, he said "magic is magic" when the IQ asked him about the difference between Dalish and Circle magic. 



#110530
AslinnMoonbreeze

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It looks very nice! From what I read on the FB post, it's till a WIP right?

 

 

 

Yeah, it's still drying atm. I have a trick that really helps keep it smooth, but can make it take a bit longer to dry, I basically wet it/my fingers and rub it which makes it smoother. It also makes it a tad easier to mold as well. After it dries I will probably lightly sand it, put spackle on it (like when you're fixing cracks/holes in walls lol it's really good you use to help smooth out none flexible projects), sand it again, then probably put a layer of wood glue on it, then paint it, then more wood glue to seal it. So, I might be done in a week or so? It really depends on how quickly all the bits dry and on how much I neglect studying lol.

I also bought fabric to make Solas' jumper/shirt/whatever it is. I'm basically going to do a gender swap version of him. I ordered a bald cap, but plan to cut it and only attach it to the sides of my head and use my actual hair and do a sort of Fen'Harel/concept art version of Solas' hair. I also plan to do a Lavellan, but that requires many more moneys than I can afford atm, though I maaaaay do her wearing Solas' shirt wink wink nudge nudge (I'd have to find a willing photographer).

Here is another pic but it pretty much looks the same (thought it might be clearer)

Spoiler


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#110531
FrankWisdom

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... Then how come Cassandra can do the same? She uses the same power, yet the power was bestowed to her by the spirit of Faith. It is, very much, a type of Fade magic, and Lucius Corin even alludes that Seekers are, indeed, abominations.

 

Seems that it's basically Seeker's faith that reinforces reality - that is, will and belief. And I suspect the same thing happens with lyrium or blood magic, only in a somewhat roundabout way. Those who use it don' necessarily draw from THEIR will, but the will of creatures whose life-force (blood or lyrium) can be used to reinforce reality - or split it.

 

 

 

Neither of this negates what I said, in fact it can work quite well with the theory that lyrium and blood react and interact with the Fade the way they do, because they're a life-force of living, physical creatures: something that is the opposite of what is in the Fade, that seems to be all about incorporeal.

 

 

 

No, actually - the 'magic is magic and water is water' wasn't an answer to question about blood magic, but the differences between elven and human magic. Solas later reinstates that 'magic is magic' in context of blood magic, but the initial question was about the difference between magic itself.

Cassandra states that a Seeker's power is different than that of a Templar because they don't use lyrium. Her special abilities are simply to set the lyrium with in a person's blood aflame- an ability used to interrogate, paralyze, or kill a mage or Templar. Also the fact that she (like all seekers) was possessed by a spirit of faith during her training could be the reason that seekers are both resistant to red lyrium and why they can't be possessed. The fact that she has the Templar specialization is more of a gameplay mechanic decision than anything else in my opinion. Giving her a unique specialization would be much more work than giving her the generic choices we have as a PC. The fact that she somehow has Templar powers now (after specializations are unlocked) is never addressed in-game (only briefly explained in a paragraph above her specialization, which still doesn't make much narrative sense, given all Seekers should have these abilities in the context that it's explained). Until it has been in any canon media, then that isn't a valid argument. As for Lucius here is what you're talking about

 

The Lord Seeker in fact willingly allowed an Envy demon to assume his identity and take command of the Templar Order while Lucius led his fellow seekers to their doom. When confronted at Caer Oswin, Lucius reveals the 'truth' about what the Seekers of Truth really are; "abominations" who have created a never ending war by creating the Templar Order and the Circle of Magi. Lucius gives Cassandra a book that contains the secrets of the Seekers' order as proof of his words.

 

First off, what Lucius said you should take with a grain for salt, given he is quite misguided and clearly unhinged. His comments about seekers being abominations simply mean the actions they took. The horrible things they allowed. It also is a reference I'm guessing to the training process in which they are possessed by a spirit of faith. This fits the definition of an "abomination". It also is aligned with his goals, to create a new "pure" order under Corypheus' rule.

 

I think Seekers draw their powers from fade magic through the spirit of faith that possessed them and are capable of doing so through that process. I also believe it's how they manipulate lyrium. Again if they act as antithesis' of each other it would make sense that either type can have adverse affects on the other.

 

What I said wasn't supposed to "negate" what you said. It just reinforced my own argument. I said it in spite of your comments.

 

As for the Solas water dialogue. The conversation is still about magic being inherent in and of itself. The inquisitor asks about the difference between teachings. He says that at the end of the day magic is magic like water is water. Meaning, no matter where you learn it, you are still using the same thing, just manipulating it in a different way. This conversation is specific to Circle and Dalish magic. Both fade magic.

 

The only thing I will say for your point is that Alistair mentions that the Chantry introduced lyrium to Templars in order to keep them on a tight leash, given its addictive properties and the fact that the Chantry controls the lyrium trade. He speculates that it merely enhances their abilities rather than is the product of it.

 

This would also explain then Cassandra being able to use Templar abilities as they come from The Seeker order and are old seeker teachings. If that is the case, then it must have to do with the spirit of faith that touches their spirit. If it is generated by faith however, it doesn't disregard Titan's blood, lyrium and what they are innately. If that was the case, I'd still believe Titan's blood and fade magic to be opposing forces that create a balance as they coexisted before the veil. I think Titans represent the physical aspect while The Fade is the spirit (obviously). There is reason dwarves don't dream and the rest of the races do.

 

If the Dwarves were part of a hivemind or in a symbiotic relationship with the Titans, then it would make sense that they would lack a connection to the Fade ergo Titan's blood. This makes sense as Valta doesn't sleep anymore once she rejoins the Titans and has their blood flowing through her.


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#110532
Caddius

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Just finished The Descent! Such industry! Such dwarf!  :D

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#110533
CapricornSun

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Art post time again. :)

 

Lovely Solas and Lavellan sketch. (Tumblr link version of the one NightSymphony posted earler.)

 

Lavellan and the Dread Wolf. (Tumblr link version)

 

Solas kissing Lavellan.

 

Keeping Secrets fanart: Freckles (NSFW)

 

Solas and Lavellan color palette challenge and sketch version.

 

Love the facial expressions. :lol:

 

See you, egg uncle. :(

 

Artist's headcanon that Solas helps Dorian enter the Fade to meet Felix, or what memory is left of him. (Only slightly NSFW but it's pretty funny. :lol:)

Spoiler

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#110534
Caddius

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One thing that astonishes me about Fen'Harel's plans is this apparent desire of his to free his fellow Elven deities.

 

I don't know but that seems foolish. Firstly, if Fen'Harel's portrayal of them is correct, then the ancient Elven deities are an extreme version of the Lannisters and Littlefinger from Game of Thrones. They are cruel, vain, greedy, etc and that was during their peak. What do you think these deities will feel now when they awaken ?

 

Wouldn't they get really very angry and kill Fen'Harel ? Wouldn't they be very angry at the state of the world, like Corypheus did and wage a massive war ? Wouldn't they be then subsequently destroyed (because if Elven gods decided to go to war, you can be sure that Humans, Qunari and Dwarves will ally with each other), resulting in the total annihilation of Elven culture ?

 

Personally, the best way forward is for the Elves to live in seclusion, in remote corners, slowly rebuilding themselves up first before attempting anything else. That would be the most logical thing to do. Nevertheless, I get the idea that ancient Elven gods are not very logical or sensible.

I really don't think his plans involve busting the Creators (Or Forgotten Ones, for that matter) out.

He makes some references to betrayal by a group, to not trust people to give up power. Then we have all the hints about Mythal's murderer, Dirthamen's statue gutted and bleeding next to Mythal in the Fade, the civil warring...

Mostly, I go off of Cole's line. "Sleeping, masked in a mirror, hurting...and to wake them-*gasp*"

"I'm sorry, Cole. That is not a pain you can heal."

I take that as Cole seeing just how devastating and horrible Solas believes releasing them would be. Or a particularly horrible method of breaking them out. Solas regretting that, while he wishes his old friends could be free, he fully understands that that can never be, and that's a wound that will never heal, since, y'know, they're immortal. :P

On the other hand, that means I have very little idea what his plan is.  :lol: I can buy him trying to siphon their power without catching a Mana-Drain-Transmitted-Disease, but what's the purpose of that power? I like the mention of him focusing on saving other Ancient Elves in stasis somehow, like the collateral damage from Arlathan's fall/the Creators being sealed away.

I really want to learn more about Geldauran and how his fellow rivals to the Creators fit into this. And the Old Gods. I'm still waiting for straight answers on what they are.  :rolleyes:

 

A question for everyone: The 'Whispers in Red Lyrium' Codex. Elven gods or Titans? I don't see Titans as being the type of write that stuff down, but the Memories are written in lyrium. *shrug* The 'asunder' part makes me think more Titan, and 'we have found the dreams again' makes me think Somniari elf gods from Arlathan.


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#110535
FernRain

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A question for everyone: The 'Whispers in Red Lyrium' Codex. Elven gods or Titans? I don't see Titans as being the type of write that stuff down, but the Memories are written in lyrium. *shrug* The 'asunder' part makes me think more Titan, and 'we have found the dreams again' makes me think Somniari elf gods from Arlathan.

 

When I read that codex I thought Elven Gods, or the Old Gods. Perhaps they are asleep inside their prisons, the Old God dragons ("we have slept"). Once all the archdemons ("we are polluted") have been killed, it will wake up the creators' real bodies ("we will awaken"). Theories huh :huh:.

 

I wonder what happens to the Grey Warden that takes in the soul of the archdemon when they die. Do they go to the fade with this soul? That could explain "we have found the dreams again", if the fade can be called a dream.


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#110536
Caddius

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When I read that codex I thought Elven Gods, or the Old Gods. Perhaps they are asleep inside their prisons, the Old God dragons ("we have slept"). Once all the archdemons ("we are polluted") have been killed, it will wake up the creators' real bodies ("we will awaken"). Theories huh :huh:.

 

I wonder what happens to the grey warden that takes in the soul of the archdemon when they die. Do they go to the fade with this soul? That could explain "we have found the dreams again", if the fade can be called a dream.

Interesting thought. I'd always assumed that the meeting of Old God Soul and mortal soul in the slaying of an Archdemon resulted in the annihilation of both. No way to prove what happens to the soul in Dragon Age, (with, so far, the exception being the dwarves. :D ) I guess it's possible that it purifies it and returns it into the Fade. In which case, the Warden killings could be a long-term plan to heal the Old Gods. But I'd guess that Solas has a better grasp on the mechanics of this than most, and he seems horrified at the idea of killing the Old Gods.


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#110537
FernRain

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Also regarding "we will awaken" (if the gods are in some form of uthenera), the Black Emporium in DA:2 has this to say about Fen'harel awakening: Two shadowed spheres among stars, an eclipse as Fen'Harel stirred.

 

What's a shadowed sphere? Does a particular cosmic event always occur when a god wakes from uthenera?

 

If it's shadowed and in space, could it be Thedas (the world) eclipsing the moon? If that's the case then perhaps Mythal has something to do with it considering she created the moon.



#110538
midnight tea

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Interesting thought. I'd always assumed that the meeting of Old God Soul and mortal soul in the slaying of an Archdemon resulted in the annihilation of both.

 

How could Kieran be born then? I mean, it appears that Flemeth took Uthremiel's soul in an OGB world state, yet Kieran remains.



#110539
midnight tea

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Also regarding "we will awaken" (if the gods are in some form of uthenera), the Black Emporium in DA:2 has this to say about Fen'harel awakening: Two shadowed spheres among stars, an eclipse as Fen'Harel stirred.

 

What's a shadowed sphere? Does a particular cosmic event always occur when a god wakes from uthenera?

 

If it's shadowed and in space, could it be Thedas (the world) eclipsing the moon? If that's the case then perhaps Mythal has something to do with it considering she created the moon.

 

Well, as far as we know. I have to wonder about the nature of moons (in fact a lot of celestial objects in Thedas) - could they be a type of Titans as well  :huh:?

 

Locked on the orbit, sleeping and waiting. I mean, the moon in DAI looks like it's ready to crash into the planet any minute now ;D


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#110540
kalasaurus

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Hey Solasmancers!!!  I made another fan video for Solas's romance :)  Enjoy!!!

 


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#110541
FernRain

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Well, as far as we know. I have to wonder about the nature of moons (in fact a lot of celestial objects in Thedas) - could they be a type of Titans as well  :huh:?

 

Locked on the orbit, sleeping and waiting. I mean, the moon in DAI looks like it's ready to crash into the planet any minute now ;D

 

I know right, the moon is enormous! Reminds me of a picture of what it would look like if Jupiter was as close to the earth as the moon:

Spoiler

 

The moon seems to be growing too:

Spoiler

 

I wish there was a clearer picture of this, it might have given us some hints into the cosmos (from the DA wiki http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Calendar):

 

Mage_book_4.jpg

 

On that note, the astrariums are interesting. They're left over from a cult that wanted to return to an earlier period where dreamers ruled. The Order of Fiery Promise, the cult claiming the end of the world is necessary, hunted their relics because they thought they held the veil together (one of Solas' artifacts is within the treasure room pointed at by the astrarium puzzle Fenrir - the White Wolf that in older Neromenian tales was said to have escaped hunters by fleeing into the sky).

 

Do the astrariums in each map correspond? They're grouped as: Servani, Fervenial, Bellitanus / Peraquialis, Judex, Draconis / Kios, Silentir, Tenebrium / Toth, Fenrir, Satinalis / Eluvia, Equinor, Solium. I should look into this.. All I remember was that Fenrir was outside of the slave prison Coracavus.

 

Cole has something to say about the stars too:

Cole: Look at all the stars. They are so far away. Some of them are gone.

Solas: Vast but still. Does it bother you, how different it looks than the sky in the Fade?

Cole: At first, I didn't remember. Now I just want to forget.

 

Does that mean stars are closer in the fade? Are some strangely missing (assuming he's not referencing still being able to see the light of dead stars)? Are they not still?

 

Many thoughts.. :pinched:.


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#110542
Illyria

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MEHEM saved that game experience for me.  

 

The Mass Effect 3 ending is fine.  Although my copy of ME3 has this werid bug where the post-game DLC Citadel triggers before the ending.


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#110543
CapricornSun

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Another art break.

 

Lovely fanart based on the wonderful Solavellan modern AU fic, flower/ink.

 

WIP Solavellan artwork.

 

Solas with his frilly cake. ;)

 

Solas with just a book covering his bits. (NSFW)  :ph34r:


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#110544
kalasaurus

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If any of you like heavy metal, you should check out these videos I'm posting ;).  Here's another Solas video I made using Straight Line Stitch!

 


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#110545
Caddius

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How could Kieran be born then? I mean, it appears that Flemeth took Uthremiel's soul in an OGB world state, yet Kieran remains.

Kieran (Old God Baby style) is born of Morrigan and a Warden with a ritual to ensure conception. Apparently he was born with enough measure of the Blight that the Old God soul was coaxed into a relatively unformed soul, leading to fusion instead of destruction.  That's how Morrigan explained it. *shrug* I'm guessing that the Old God can hop into blighted vessels like darkspawn, who are happy to help and whose will doesn't resist. The same goes for Kieran when he's not even a week old. :P But an adult Warden's mind resists violently, and the conflict is enough to kill both of their mortal bodies with what happens to their spirits being (heh) up in the air.

Corypheus's Wardens can presumably be controlled through the Blight in similar fashion to other blighted creatures to facilitate his body-hop, with the one we witness in Inquisition being mind-controlled to begin with. Either that, or the Magisters got an updated model of the body-hop.  :huh:


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#110546
flabbadence

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Hallo. Have you guys talked about

 

(Descent DLC spoilers)

Spoiler


#110547
Kaydreamer

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The Mass Effect 3 ending is fine.  Although my copy of ME3 has this werid bug where the post-game DLC Citadel triggers before the ending.

 

Glad to see I'm not the only person who insists that Citadel is in fact the true ME3 ending. Plug your ears at a maybe just two points throughout the whole thing, and it works perfectly fine. :D


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#110548
S.W.

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Hallo. Have you guys talked about

 

(Descent DLC spoilers)

Spoiler

 

That puzzled me too. I just assumed it was a vast hollow and that there was some sort of magic light was powerful enough to replicate daylight. Unless Thedas isn't actually responding to the laws of physics and is, in fact, some kind of flat world with a magical underneath.


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#110549
flabbadence

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That puzzled me too. I just assumed it was a vast hollow and that there was some sort of magic light was powerful enough to replicate daylight. Unless Thedas isn't actually responding to the laws of physics and is, in fact, some kind of flat world with a magical underneath.

 

Spoiler

 

Hmmm.

This just makes me wonder if Arlathan still exists under the sea or wherever it was sunk in.


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#110550
Bayonet Hipshot

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In the previous 2 Dragon Age games, Elves were shorter than Humans. This was very apparent in Dragon Age Origins.

 

However in Inquisition, it appears Elves and Humans are both about the same height with the only different being how slim they are ?

 

I thought I must be seeing things so I checked the Dragon Age wiki and saw this: A humanoid race, elves are typically shorter than humans (though this has been mitigated slightly since Dragon Age: Origins) and have a slender, lithe build and pointed ears.

 

Here is a shot of the male Elf Inquisitor being taller than Cassandra. In previous games the male Elf was shorter than Morrigan and Leliana.

 


 

XvKuwoj.png

 

 

So was this retcon intentional or what ?