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[midnight tea]

Unfortunately, that's a good enough reason for some players, but even if we ignore them, there's still a lot of people left that are mad.

 

Well, for one thing, he did lie the whole time he was with the Inquisition. A lie by omission is still a lie, IMO. Many innocent people died, and some of these deaths could've been avoided if he had just confessed and shared everything he knew. 

 

I still remember my first playthrough. I was with a female Trevelyan mage and after a third of the game or so, Solas was her most trusted advisor. All the choices in that world state were based on his approval. Then I found he had his own secret agenda all along, and was involved in causing the whole problem in the first place. My feelings of betrayal were SO real, I've never experienced anything like this in a work of fiction before. 

 

I understand now that if he'd just come clean, Chantry forces would probably just want to execute him or make him Tranquil. He also seems to be working towards something bigger that is supposed to save someone, whoever that is. Deep down he probably despises every desperate action he had to take. I headcanon that he never lies directly and gives confusing answers, because it makes a bit easier to bear all the deceit he has to resort to, even if he hates the image of the "trickster" he has had to become. 

 

But I don't think all fans would see it that way, and him being such a polarizing figure confirms that. So, some people simply feel betrayed, want their revenge, and the "punch Solas" option's just not doing it for them.

 

Considering how frequently he gives his honest opinion about something or someone and how he emphasizes at times that sometimes bad (or 'bad') actions have to be taken out of necessity or desire to change the world, I wouldn't be surprised if him avoiding straightforward lies because he dislikes it isn't "just headcanon". IMO there's enough hints in the game to suggest that it may not be.

 

In any case - I think at this point Solas is in "damn if you do, damn if you don't"  territory as to what he can or can't reveal. I mean, if he revealed who he really was and what he's done (or... he thinks he's done?), I think - very ironically - the player would likely never really know how he truly is, in terms of personality or worldview. The fact that he's a former god/ancient elf/immortal would simply eclipse everything else (as I think we've seen it after the post-epilogue reveal, which immediately colored or shifted perception of him to quite a few players).

It's an interesting dilemma, at the very least, IMO.

 

In any case - maybe people would be offered 'killing him' just like players were offered an option to kill Flemeth in Origins?

[Cee]

I was someone who didn't feel betrayed by Solas. I just sort of understood it all. And since he also feels several metric tons of pain over various things, including the orb and deaths and vague other things he did, it just made me more sad and full of feelings than anything else.

(I'm a sensitive, empathetic sort in real life, so sometimes things just  'click' faster for me and I can get to the root of it.)

 

But I understand the feeling of betrayal some might feel and don't find it unreasonable. What bothers me is when people who clearly never brought him anywhere and never bothered to get to know his character just hate him.

 

One benefit of such a limited Solas romance is that the romance scenes are piggybacked on top of other scenes everyone gets. So it's not like you can say Lavellan romancing Solas players have access to much more information. There is some more, yes, but even Lavellans don't know anything when it comes to the breakup and beyond, not until everyone else does.

[drosophila]

Considering how frequently he gives his honest opinion about something or someone and how he emphasizes at times that sometimes bad (or 'bad') actions have to be taken out of necessity or desire to change the world, I wouldn't be surprised if him avoiding straightforward lies because he dislikes it isn't "just headcanon". IMO there's enough hints in the game to suggest that it may not be.

 

Good point  

 

In any case - I think at this point Solas is in "damn if you do, damn if you don't"  territory as to what he can or can't reveal. I mean, if he revealed who he really was and what he's done (or... he thinks he's done?), I think - very ironically - the player would likely never really know how he truly is, in terms of personality or worldview. The fact that he's a former god/ancient elf/immortal would simply eclipse everything else (as I think we've seen it after the post-epilogue reveal, which immediately colored or shifted perception of him to quite a few players).

 

Yes, that's another danger of it, even if everyone's reaction right after he confesses isn't KILL HIM WITH FIRE!

 

In this regard, Solas is the opposite of Cole. With Cole, you start the game knowing he's a spirit, and some who've read Asunder think of him as a demon. Relationships with him barely resemble a relationship with another person at first, but depending on how you play the game and how much party banter you listen to, over time Inky&Co realize he can just be a squirrely kid at times and can form true friendships.

 

With Solas, he starts out by being the fade nerd weirdo and just another apostate hobo. You get the chance to get to know him as a person and form a relationship, and then the reveal happens that he's actually more than that. 

[Reznore57]

I'm not a Solasmancer and I didn't feel betrayed by Solas...

But I can imagine wanting to kill him (I doubt it will happen though), he just didn't give me a good vibe overall.

I mean I've been there in DA2 , Anders was a nice fella , he had a clinic helping refugees , he wanted to free his people from oppression etc...still BOOM.

 

What rings my alarm bells , Solas is a God , yeah he might deny his "Godhood" but he still look over the world as a God would.

He look at it , he's displeased by what he sees and wants to change it .

Political schemings amuses him , he likes it.

But I side with Sera on this one , it's all bored nobles shenanigans and it gets people killed.It's not funny , it's lame.

When Cole remarks he doesn't see people as "real" ...it sounds bordeline sociopath , if you think people aren't truly real , then their pain aren't truly real , then you can do everything you want , it doesn't matter.

He thinks humans are barbarians , Qunari are savages , dwarves are a lost cause , the elves have fallen too low for him...only a special snowflake like the Inquisitor can win his full approval.And spirit Cole.

That's not conforting.

I'm afraid he's going to hurt people for what he thinks is the greater good.

And he's much much more dangerous than Anders.

 

Now we'll see...I'm waiting for an antagonist that would really put me on edge and make me think.

Like if Solas has to do something bad because it would save the world in the long run...etc...

Besides my Inquisitor is Dalish ...and a total hypocrite when it comes to elves , so Solas could buy him with some ELVEN GLORY speech.

 

Anyway I'm excited because I do like Solas as a character , I'm just not trusting him and whatever intention he has for now.

[NightSymphony]

Yes...not trusting and hating are two different things.  From some of the comments I've read in other forums..a lot of people seem to be getting the two confused.

[Avejajed]

I drove home from the grocery store totally zoned out and my husband was like wtf is wrong with you, but basically I was imagining all the horrible ways the last DLC could go for a Solas romanced Lavellan.

[drosophila]

What rings my alarm bells , Solas is a God , yeah he might deny his "Godhood" but he still look over the world as a God would.

He look at it , he's displeased by what he sees and wants to change it .

 

That's not Godhood, that's social activism. It can be a good thing. 

 

I don't think he views changing the world as his prerogative. Quite the opposite, I think he's displeased that a lot of people watch injustice and tragedy happen but do nothing about it. He says to Varric that he does not understand why Orzammar is not using their leverage with the lyrium trade to prevent the fall of the dwarven land. He criticizes Dorian for doing nothing to improve the situation of slaves of all races in Tevinter. (Dorian: I don't think I can do that. Solas: Then how sorry are you?) 

 

I think part of him wishes he could buy a small apartment in Val Ryeaux at a convenient distance from a frilly cake shop. He can spend his time in the city discussing sophisticated magical stuff with intellectual socialites, and occasionally go on a vacation to visit some ancient ruins and dream. But he's been dealt different cards, and as long as he feels there's something that has to change, he will do what has to be done to change it. The fact that he chose his mission over happiness with Lavellan shows that much. 

 

 Political schemings amuses him , he likes it.

 

I don't think it exactly amuses him, but he does get some kind of a rush out of influencing history. I think it's a vestige of his hot blooded and cocky youth, a part of his ego that he has tamed, but not completely, and being part of world-changing events can make him feel drunk with power. 

 

When Cole remarks he doesn't see people as "real" ...it sounds bordeline sociopath , if you think people aren't truly real , then their pain aren't truly real , then you can do everything you want , it doesn't matter.

 

I don't think it's beause he's a sociopath, it's a reaction to what's happened to him. If you've ever experienced a major loss, like a breakup of a very serious relationship, job loss, death in the family... in the aftermath, the shock can make it seem like it's all a dream. I think that's what it's like for him. He was among the top of a great empire, and then everything fell, people he trusted betrayed him, everyone he held dear is lost, the elves have been reduced to slaves and second-class citizens who don't even remember their true history, and he himself is a pariah, even among his own race. I don't blame him for not being able to accept it all. He can comprehend what has happened, but it does not feel real to him. 

[drosophila]

I drove home from the grocery store totally zoned out and my husband was like wtf is wrong with you, but basically I was imagining all the horrible ways the last DLC could go for a Solas romanced Lavellan.

 

 I do that a lot too

[S.W.]

Considering how frequently he gives his honest opinion about something or someone and how he emphasizes at times that sometimes bad (or 'bad') actions have to be taken out of necessity or desire to change the world, I wouldn't be surprised if him avoiding straightforward lies because he dislikes it isn't "just headcanon". IMO there's enough hints in the game to suggest that it may not be.

 

In any case - I think at this point Solas is in "damn if you do, damn if you don't"  territory as to what he can or can't reveal. I mean, if he revealed who he really was and what he's done (or... he thinks he's done?), I think - very ironically - the player would likely never really know how he truly is, in terms of personality or worldview. The fact that he's a former god/ancient elf/immortal would simply eclipse everything else (as I think we've seen it after the post-epilogue reveal, which immediately colored or shifted perception of him to quite a few players).

It's an interesting dilemma, at the very least, IMO.

 

In any case - maybe people would be offered 'killing him' just like players were offered an option to kill Flemeth in Origins?

 

Part of me hopes that'd be the case. It was always implied from outset that "killing Flemeth" meant you'd just be delaying her, rather than getting rid of her for good, making her survival in DA2 an interesting - but not canon-breaking - twist. Plus, I would love a good boss battle with the massive, demon-like, eight-eyed wolf you see in Solas' tarot card.

 

On the other hand, part of me thinks that offers so little resolution. You "killed" Flemeth to help Morrigan - not because you wanted to slight Flemeth, or stop her plans for good. If you wanted that you wouldn't allow her to have an escape route. There is no external motive to allow Solas to escape when you "kill" him.

 

I'd much rather you'd have a choice over, say, some key artefact or source of magical power or knowledge which would have a function in DA4. You can give it to him, or destroy it. If you destroy it, you trigger a boss fight with him where he stops you from managing to completely destroy it, but you severely weaken the source's power in the process. If you give it to him... hm, alternative boss of some kind? Perhaps you discover another important/powerful magical figure, who objects to you giving that away to Solas - so regardless of what you choose, you fight against one boss, with the help of the boss you didn't choose to fight, perhaps. And how cool would it be to fight alongside a massive, scary eight-eyed wolf god?

 

This artefact would later affect outcomes in DA4, probably in a similar way to how some ME2 choices changed potential outcomes/endings (e.g. destroying the genophage data means key characters would die/could possibly be saved in ME3).

[Reznore57]

That's not Godhood, that's social activism. It can be a good thing.

I doubt he's interested in activism...or he would be far more interested in Briala and her potential.
I think he used to be an activist long ago but he's past that stage.
It seems to me he think the very nature of the elves went wrong somewhere and he wants to change that.
That's Godhood level of thing to me.
 

I don't think it's beause he's a sociopath, it's a reaction to what's happened to him. If you've ever experienced a major loss, like a breakup of a very serious relationship, job loss, death in the family... in the aftermath, the shock can make it seem like it's all a dream. I think that's what it's like for him. He was among the top of a great empire, and then everything fell, people he trusted betrayed him, everyone he held dear is lost, the elves have been reduced to slaves and second-class citizens who don't even remember their true history, and he himself is a pariah, even among his own race. I don't blame him for not being able to accept it all. He can comprehend what has happened, but it does not feel real to him.

I don't think he's a sociopath , just said it sounded like that.
You're right about the fact current Thedas must feel like a bad dream to him , ...but I think Cole says if people are real then "it changes everything".Changes what?

[midnight tea]

I doubt he's interested in activism...or he would be far more interested in Briala and her potential.

 

He says he admires Briala, but agrees with Inquisitors that her goals are short-sighted, as so far she seems to be focused in helping city-elves of Orlais. Besides - why would he be interested with Briala, when he has the Inquisitor?

 

 

I don't think he's a sociopath , just said it sounded like that.

You're right about the fact current Thedas must feel like a bad dream to him , ...but I think Cole says if people are real then "it changes everything".Changes what?

 

Well... we don't really know what Cole means Solas means as "real" when he describes Lavellan, nor we know why he thinks that her (or other good Inquisitors, I suppose) existence "changes everything, but it can't'. I hope we'll get at least that part explained in post-ending DLC, if it ever happens ;P

[Cee]

As far as "real" goes, Solas has an eye on the past at all times, and sometimes his interpretation of situations, while thoughtful, run to a more pessimistic pragmatism. He does make sweeping statements about whole groups, and it's individuals who affect his perspective in some way. Yet to say he has trust issues would be an understatement.

 

But someone being "real" could also mean letting go of that past and regrets he clings to and looking toward the present and future. It would change everything, but it can't.....as long as he clings to the past, his regrets, his sense of atonement, etc. In the case of a Lavellan he loves, she offers a present and a sense of hope.

 

• Cole: They are not gone so long as you remember them.
• Solas: I know.
• Cole: But you could let them go.
• Solas: I know that as well.

[Reznore57]

He says he admires Briala, but agrees with Inquisitors that her goals are short-sighted, as so far she seems to be focused in helping city-elves of Orlais. Besides - why would he be interested with Briala, when he has the Inquisitor?

 

 

Because you're not going to save elves with the Inquisition...it's mostly a human army ?

I can't see how Briala goal are short signed , you have to start somewhere afterall ...in some case she gain access to the Throne in Orlais , that's a huge deal for an elf.

 

An elven uprising all over Thedas is bound to fail at this point , but Briala with her eluvians could start something , if she unlock a network all over Thedas , she can start smuggling weapons in alienage etc...

The elves can even hide in the CrossRoads , if they prepare.

Or once Briala has a very secure position , if she wants to avoid war , well the elves can work with the Eluvian , it's the fastest way to travel and only elves can use it without being sick...they could make tons of coins moving things around.

[midnight tea]

Because you're not going to save elves with the Inquisition...it's mostly a human army ?

I can't see how Briala goal are short signed , you have to start somewhere afterall ...in some case she gain access to the Throne in Orlais , that's a huge deal for an elf.

 

Eeer... and being a trusted adviser of a growing power that will soon have a say in everything on continent isn't a huge deal for any elf?

 

In any case, I think we all can suspect that all the 'mundane' politics are and likely will be at least somewhat short-sighted for Solas, as his plans and goals obviously go way beyond that.

 

 

An elven uprising all over Thedas is bound to fail at this point , but Briala with her eluvians could start something , if she unlock a network all over Thedas , she can start smuggling weapons in alienage etc...

 

We do know from Morrigan that most eluvians are destroyed or broken, so even if Briala has an access/unbelievably fast route on another side of the continent, question is whether those routes would be of any use, other than maybe being able to transport elves from danger.... and even then we don't know if they're indeed safe. We know Sentinels from Temple Of Mythal killed everyone indiscriminately to protect the temple, and there's no saying if they're not patrolling Crossroads from time to time.

 

I mean... and what if Briala eventually does the mistake Solas accuses Wardens of: toys with powers she doesn't understand? What if she unlocks the wrong eluvian and unleashes catastrophe on everyone?

[Cee]

Since Briala could be dead, I'm not sure what they will do with the canon as far as elven uprisings are concerned. Reminds me that I need to adjust my world state to Celene & Briala reunited because the game didn't let me do that since I went too far and automatically triggered the Florianne confrontation. But that was what I intended to do and was looking for more halla when oh hi Florianne.

[midnight tea]

I rather agree.

 

Everyone's got to start somewhere; she can aim for all of Thedas and bite off more than she can chew, or she can start with Orlais' city elves and work her way up from there.

 

Besides, Orlais is the largest and most influential empire in Southern Thedas. They lead fashion and politics and trade. If they start treating their city elves better, other nations will follow.

 

Tevinter's never changed their stance on slavery, despite there being no formal slavery in the South. Its likely that some countries may follow Orlais' example, but the extent of it may be paltry.

 

Also - Orlais may lead in fashion, politics and trade, but who has de facto chosen the head of the country, after it got considerably weakened by blight and in-fighting?

 

That's right: Inquisition

 

 

And considering that fashion changes in Orlais almost on daily basis, I question whether it's huge. Vivienne after all says that before the mage rebellion mages were seen as fashion accessory by Orlasian nobles - and aside from her and crafty witches like Morrigan it seems that hardly any mage has influence over what's happening in Orlais, as they were generally shunned and nearly everyone's afraid of them now.

 

Speaking of Morrigan - after she waltzed into court in her black dress, black was the most popular color the day after. Yet even MOrrigan herself tells Inquisitor that she whouldn't be able to stay in court for too long, as there were too many waggling tongues, even for Celene (who, btw. already began changing the country, even if she admits that she should be 'more daring'. We do know that she allowed elves to study in University of Orlais).

[drosophila]

I doubt he's interested in activism...or he would be far more interested in Briala and her potential.
I think he used to be an activist long ago but he's past that stage.
It seems to me he think the very nature of the elves went wrong somewhere and he wants to change that.
That's Godhood level of thing to me.

 

Had to go do work stuff and fell behind the discussion, sorry.

 

I have more thoughts on Briala and how much she can do, but with regards to Solas: There's no information to suggest he didn't at some point look into what Briala is doing and evaluated her as a potential ally, but ultimately decided what she's doing is not going to work or is short-sighted or he disliked Briala or something else. 

 

I don't see how the magnitude of scale on which he works makes some change Godhood-level, and another 'simply' social activism. His whole philosophy about the world denies the involvement of gods and emphasizes that it is people who produce change. ("The greatest triumphs and tragedies this world has known can all be traced to people."). That's social activism. Besides, how can Inky&Co decide the fate of mages, templars, and wardens in Thedas, put people on the Orlais and Sunburst Throne, defeat a darkspawn ancient magister, seal a whole in the sky, defeat Hakkon, do spoilery stuff with Titans, and still remain on social activist level, whereas whatever Solas does is Godhood level? Where do we draw the line? 

 

Solas wants to change the world in a particular way and is doing everything he can to achieve that. Can't say I approve of what he's trying to do, because I don't know what it is, but I don't think it makes him a god or any different from a number of other characters who are also fighting for their agenda. 

[Illyria]

What rings my alarm bells , Solas is a God , yeah he might deny his "Godhood" but he still look over the world as a God would.

He look at it , he's displeased by what he sees and wants to change it .

Political schemings amuses him , he likes it.

But I side with Sera on this one , it's all bored nobles shenanigans and it gets people killed.It's not funny , it's lame.

When Cole remarks he doesn't see people as "real" ...it sounds bordeline sociopath , if you think people aren't truly real , then their pain aren't truly real , then you can do everything you want , it doesn't matter.

He thinks humans are barbarians , Qunari are savages , dwarves are a lost cause , the elves have fallen too low for him...only a special snowflake like the Inquisitor can win his full approval.And spirit Cole.

That's not conforting.

I'm afraid he's going to hurt people for what he thinks is the greater good.

And he's much much more dangerous than Anders.

 

The way Cole and Solas use the world 'real' seems to be related to a connection to the Fade.  When Cole describes Pharamond being cured of Tranquility he says 'the demon touched the man and made him real.  He wasn't meant to be real'.

[Vorathrad]

I mean... and what if Briala eventually does the mistake Solas accuses Wardens of: toys with powers she doesn't understand? What if she unlocks the wrong eluvian and unleashes catastrophe on everyone?

To be fair to Briala, we can assume that Solas understands the power of his foci pretty well and he still makes the huge mistake of giving it to Corypheus.

If there is any danger to Briala's revolution, I think it's that she wants to push things and there is an unwanted uprising before they are ready. Much like Solas rushes things and takes the fast and riskier route with Corypheus, out of desperation and the urge to fix what he did.

Sadly, as Briala can be dead I don't think we will be seeing much related to the elven revolution in the future.

[Renmiri1]

Someone needs to draw that.

 

I think I can probably deal with killing him in a cutscene. It will hurt but I'll deal with it. (I'm only half-sarcastic here...)

 

But an actual battle? How am I supposed to press those buttons?

[Renmiri1]

Ok, non Descent musings:

 

 

(lillotte17)

 

So…legit question: if you bring Solas to the Temple of Mythal, he tells Abelas, “There is a place for you, friend. If you would seek it.” 

 

WHAT PLACE??? WHERE IS IT AND WHY CAN’T I GO THERE??? 

 

I am seriously imagining a little nook someplace where all the Ancient elves from Elvhenan who survived Uthenera just hang out and ****** about the fall of their empire and trash talk various modern societies. I mean, yeah, there can’t be a lot of them, but…what else could Solas have meant? Would he really just tell this man who just gave up the thing he has been protecting for thousands of years, “Well, I guess you could more or less just kill yourself by going to sleep without ever planning to wake up. ” That…seems unlikely. And wasteful. Solas values freedom, and Abelas is finally free of his service to Mythal. I think Solas would want to help him adjust and make a life for himself, much in the same way that he helps Bull after he becomes Tal Vashoth.

 

Or does he simply mean there is a purpose to his existence? A “place” where he belongs in this modern world, a duty he could still preform? Is he trying to tell Abelas that he knows Mythal is alive?!

 

*throws hands up*

 

SOLAS COME BACK HERE AND TELL ME THINGS. 

 

(me)

Tell me where the hot elves are!!!

 

(Rhenal)

I have two main suspects as far as locations are concerned. One, somewhere across the sea or otherwise beyond the map, because we know absolutely nothing about what’s out there. Maybe south of the Arbor Wilds?

 

Second, the Tirashan. Why? One, it’s suspicious as ****. Two, it’s on the western edge of the map. Remember what direction Solas was last seen heading? Flippin’ west.

 

Does anyone remember Tirashan ?

[Avejajed]

Didn't we have atheory regarding the Tirashan and its possible connection to the elves (Andruil, I thought), I think it had to do with the web browser game, I already forgot the name of it. That city right on the Tirashan? Or am I making that up?

[Renmiri1]

The Last Court, takes place on the city of Serault.

 

If you talked about it I missed it -.-