153434 réponses à ce sujet

[Brass_Buckles]

And here's a question: when you take Solas to the fade in Here Lies the Abyss, is he lying when he says "I never thought I would find myself here physically"?
 
Surely he's been there before if he is Fen'harel..

Perhaps he once did, but thought it impossible in modern post-Veil Thedas? He implies at one point that ancient elves could do this, and perhaps did so with some frequency.

And I once more remind that we don't know whose temple Solasan was. If Solas is a "young" ancient, that could be his temple and he could have wanted to visit the Fade like elves could before he was born. But that would imply that the Veil came into being before Solas did, which does not seem to be the case (but we don't really know).

Perhaps once the Dreamers were the only ones who could perceive the Fade pre-Veil when not sleeping?

My theory is that Solas, possibly with help, created the Veil to seal in the Blight, which was tucked away in the then-golden Black City (it changed because the corruption coats it; maybe it is even alive in some way). He likely also contained the pantheon at this time.

Further thought: Fen'harel's slow arrow: the children who survived were the shemlen and commoners. His slow arrow was the Veil, meant to kill the beast (Blight) but it also took out most of the Creators. Felassan approves +50. Might be wrong but it would make the allegory make sense. Though I think Felassan believed Fen'harel to be lost or dead.

[Abelas Forever!]

And here's a question: when you take Solas to the fade in Here Lies the Abyss, is he lying when he says "I never thought I would find myself here physically"?

 

Surely he's been there before if he is Fen'harel..

Were those his exact words? Because it seems that he can't go to Fade physically and I think it's also likely that he didn't think it was possible to do so because he was so exited when he was in the Fade physically. I also believe that his words mean the current state of the Fade so whatever happened before the Veil was created is in a way irrelevant. So I don't think he was lying.

[Shari'El]

It could definitely be about Solas

 

I like your interpretation but because of our conversations about the veil above I can't help but see this

<lyrics>

 

I feel sun (Elgar'nan perhaps)

Through the ashes in the sky. (The reckoning of something after everything burned?, maybe relating to the Elvhen legend of the Sun's jealousy)

Where's the one

Who'll guide us into the night? (Again reference to the legend, Mythal is the guide, who created the moon, don't think it's Falon'Din given the context)

What's begun

Is the war that will

Force this divide. (Creation of the veil) or it could be referencing the rebellion as you stated

What's to come

Is fire and the end of time. I see a parallel with this (All time is transformed into the final/first death)

 

I am the one

Who can recount

What we've lost. (if the veil was the split, then magic Arlathan and their very nature,  could be what they lost) if the rebellion, then talking about casualties of war as well as culture etc.

I am the one

Who will live on.

 

I have run

Through the fields (The imagery this evokes is interesting like an animal running, perhaps a wolf?

Of pain and sighs.

I have fought

To see the other side. (If the veil was the split, he is looking to walk The Fade, physically) If the rebellion, the other side could be

I am the one

Who can recount

What we've lost.

I am the one

Who will live on.

 

</lyrics>

 

This has no relation other than the part I used as a parallel, I just felt like reposting it as I find it interesting

 

 

Our belief transformed into everything. (assertation/problem? uncertain)
All time is transformed into the final/first death (uncertain),
Inevitable victory and promised freedom in the untorn veils
 

Where the sky is held up, where the people give love that is a promise to....

 

Where the sky is held back, where the people gain love that is an apology from....

 

Where the sky is held up, where the people gain love that is a promise from...

 

Where the sky is held back, where the people give love that is an apology to...

 

Ooooh, that's right, Mythal is represented by the moon, I somehow forgot that, I was so caught up by the fact Falon'Din is called "The Guide" to consider her, this way the two parts of the verse contrast each other (which is kind of lovely in poetry), him being the All-Father and her the All-Mother, him being the god of vengeance and she justice, etc. 

The moon can be easily considered a guide in night, reflecting the sun's light and shinning the way through.

Nice!

 

Now that I think about it, they are yin yang, "yin" = shaddy side, which represents female and "yang" = sunny side, male.

There is also something similar in Tarot -

The High Priestess is represented by the moon (you can see it in the card itself as well).

Her counterpart is the Hierophant (which is, by the way, Solas' romance card), it isn't directly related to the sun but the imagery in the card usually has those red & yellow tones.

Both cards have a lot to do with spirituality.

 

As for the rest, just yesterday I took a screenshot of the codex you are now referencing, "On Skyhold". For some reason I ignored a lot of lore in the first two playthroughs (probably because I wasn't armed with the WoT 1 & 2 at the time), it's funny this codex surfaces now after seeing it yesterday.

I like the parallels you've found in that codex translation, it makes a lot of sense.

 

You're new to the forums but every time your name pops up I expect gold, you're very insightful :]

I don't know if you've been officially welcomed to the thread - but welcome

[FernRain]

I feel sun

Through the ashes in the sky.

Where's the one

Who'll guide us into the night?

 

Sounds similar to this part of the "Portents of the Maker's Return":

The Maker returns
In dread I looked up once more
And saw the darkness warp and crumble,
For it was thin as samite,
A fragile shroud over the Light
Which turned it to ash.

 

Am I reaching? Probably .

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Not necessarily. When Inquisitor talks with him in the Fade scene in Skyhold, Solas marvels at Quizzy's potential ability to walk the Fade physically and tells them that he's explored the Fade more than anyone else alive, but he can only visit it in dreams. He's also absolutely amazed with being physically there in Adamant, so I don't think he's lying about that.

 

That, of course, makes me wonder how old Solas actually is and whether Fen'Harel is as old, or perhaps older than him and what all this means, but it may be as I suspect it is, and Solas himself was born back when the Veil was there already (even if maybe somewhat different) and the Elvhen Empire was falling apart.

 

So SolaFen is a lot like Javik ? Born during a time of great conflict and did some harsh but necessary things to ensure survival. They also troll their so-called experts of their culture, Morrigan and Liara.

 

One is The Avatar of Vegeance, The Avatar of Trolling and The Avatar of Airlock. The other is the The Avatar of Rebellion, The Avatar of Snark and The Avatar of Broken Hearts.

[AslinnMoonbreeze]

Painted the wolf jaw tonight. I added gold paint into my final layers to help make it like, shimmery. It kind of catches light a lot in game, and sometimes has a bit of a brassy colour to it. 

Spoiler

[Shari'El]

Sounds similar to this part of the "Portents of the Maker's Return":

The Maker returns
In dread I looked up once more
And saw the darkness warp and crumble,
For it was thin as samite,
A fragile shroud over the Light
Which turned it to ash.

 

Am I reaching? Probably .

 

Nahh, everything is acceptable here.

Not related but everytime I see "samite" I am reminded of about how I once harvested darkened samite to craft a nice looking armor.

Harvesting material in this game... Ugh.

Black Emporium

[FernRain]

Were those his exact words?

 

Fairly certain. I don't usually quote things unless I've checked they're direct quotes .

[midnight tea]

 I can't wait to find out what his motivations truly are. I've not been quite so engrossed in waiting for a game revelation in my life.

 

No kidding. Saturday Pax panel can't come fast enough! And IF we get the DLC announcement we want, then there's still waiting for it to hit the stores. Oh, the torture !

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Painted the wolf jaw tonight. I added gold paint into my final layers to help make it like, shimmery. It kind of catches light a lot in game, and sometimes has a bit of a brassy colour to it. 

Spoiler

 

Solas & Hircine Greatly Approves.

[Abelas Forever!]

Fairly certain. I don't usually quote things unless I've checked they're direct quotes .

I asked because he actually doesn't say whether he has been in the Fade physically or not   and I found that very interesting.

[drosophila]

Painted the wolf jaw tonight. I added gold paint into my final layers to help make it like, shimmery. It kind of catches light a lot in game, and sometimes has a bit of a brassy colour to it. 

Spoiler

 

Looks GREAT!

[FernRain]

The High Priestess is represented by the moon (you can see it in the card itself as well).

Her counterpart is the Hierophant (which is, by the way, Solas' romance card), it isn't directly related to the sun but the imagery in the card usually has those red & yellow tones.

Both cards have a lot to do with spirituality.

 

As for the rest, just yesterday I took a screenshot of the codex you are now referencing, "On Skyhold". For some reason I ignored a lot of lore in the first two playthroughs (probably because I wasn't armed with the WoT 1 & 2 at the time), it's funny this codex surfaces now after seeing it yesterday.

I like the parallels you've found in that codex translation, it makes a lot of sense.

 

Interesting, I didn't know those two cards related. I really have to wonder if the way Solas' romance card and Lavellan's match up was intentional, surely..

 

And while you're thinking about Skyhold, I am so suspicious of Solas "finding" it. I bet he brought it into existence somehow, kinda like the wellspring. Couldn't dreamers shape the fade? Hmm.

[S.W.]

Not necessarily. When Inquisitor talks with him in the Fade scene in Skyhold, Solas marvels at Quizzy's potential ability to walk the Fade physically and tells them that he's explored the Fade more than anyone else alive, but he can only visit it in dreams. He's also absolutely amazed with being physically there in Adamant, so I don't think he's lying about that.

 

That, of course, makes me wonder how old Solas actually is and whether Fen'Harel is as old, or perhaps older than him and what all this means, but it may be as I suspect it is, and Solas himself was born back when the Veil was there already (even if maybe somewhat different) and the Elvhen Empire was falling apart.

 

Hm, could it possibly be that Fen'Harel isn't a person, but rather, a title? I know this is unlikely, given that we've met Mythal and it seems she was one person, but it'd explain a few things - perhaps if Solas had inherited the title late on, it might explain how the elven pantheon was stable for years and years but then Fen'Harel changed his mind and rebelled.

 

I mean, people can and do change their lives late on in their lives. It's not a given that young people are radicals who ease up and become moderates with age. Elves don't even have that comprehension of time. But it always struck me as odd that the elven pantheon - which I assume has been in place for a very long time, hence their god-like status - was toppled within after such a long time. I mean, unless something changed.

[drosophila]

Speaking of fluff, I went back and finished something I started a while back, though I'm not quite 100% loving the end. But why not toss it on the internet?

 

This was what I just published: http://archiveofouro...apters/10646607

 

But it's actually the second chapter of this: http://archiveofouro..._full_work=true

 

(I published chapters 1 and 3 before, this one comes in between chronologically.) I think it's complete now at three parts.

 

 

edit: and when I say fluff I mean my usual feelsy fluffy sort of thing.

 

This was very romantic. You have a beautiful way with words!

[midnight tea]

Hm, could it possibly be that Fen'Harel isn't a person, but rather, a title? I know this is unlikely, given that we've met Mythal and it seems she was one person, but it'd explain a few things - perhaps if Solas had inherited the title late on, it might explain how the elven pantheon was stable for years and years but then Fen'Harel changed his mind and rebelled.

 

I mean, people can and do change their lives late on in their lives. It's not a given that young people are radicals who ease up and become moderates with age. Elves don't even have that comprehension of time. But it always struck me as odd that the elven pantheon - which I assume has been in place for a very long time, hence their god-like status - was toppled within after such a long time. I mean, unless something changed.

 

Well, it might as well be that he rebelled after Creators didn't meet his expectations, or grew too attached to power. I mean, Solas sounds like someone who was let down by some sort of organized group - and it may as well not be a group of fellow rebels (unless he is indeed a lot like Prometheus, who was a Titan, yet sided with Olympians and helped them win war with older generation of gods; only in case of old generation of elvhen gods, maybe they all became Forgotten Ones once Creators established themselves as a pantheon)

 

And the Betrayal codex claims that in the past Fen'Harel helped elvhen gods fight Forgotten Ones.

 

"He was kin to the Creators, and in the old days, often helped them in their endless war against the Forgotten Ones."

 

Though how much truth is in that codex is anyone's guess.

 

In any case - we may not know; Fen'Harel may indeed be a title, or maybe some sort of power any designated rebel leader inherits.... Or it may as well be some sort of amalgam - like, there existed Fen'Harel-ish god long before and Solas saw himself as someone who continues his work.

[Shari'El]

Interesting, I didn't know those two cards related. I really have to wonder if the way Solas' romance card and Lavellan's match up was intentional, surely..

 

And while you're thinking about Skyhold, I am so suspicious of Solas "finding" it. I bet he brought it into existence somehow, kinda like the wellspring. Couldn't dreamers shape the fade? Hmm.

 

I don't think I can dig it up, but somewhere.. Around the 2000 page of this thread I wrote a LONG post about the tarot cards.

Viv's tarot card is the High Priestess which shares a lot of similarities with the female Dalish card.

 

 

Staff in left hand, object held up in right hand, profile, following robes, body facing the same direction..

I don't remember exactly what I wrote, it was a long time ago, and although in the official tarot pack the fem!Dalish isn't a major arcana card (for obvious reasons) I think the parallels are undeniable.

It's kind of wonderful since romanced!Solas is the Hierophant and the two cards are complimenting each other.

 

Edit: my mistake

The Inqi cards don't appear at all in the tarot set, you instead get a variation of them, as you can see, they're less detailed and the staff is missing.

Modifié par Shari'El, 27 août 2015 - 02:56 .

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Speaking of that excellent wolf jaw by AslinnMoonbreeze, I think I might know what that Wolf Jaw is. If you look at magic in other fantasy realms, I am sure you will come across something known as a Druid's Totem. A Totem allows a Druid to shapeshift into a particular animal and it usually believed that a certain animal totem represents that Druid's spirit.

 

I think the Wolf Jaw bone is SolaFen's Totem. I think each and every mage who are capable of shapeshifting have some form of Totem that is unique to them which allows them to shapeshift. Yes I know Morrigan tells us that we just have to study a particular animal closely to be that animal but shapeshifting magic in most fantasy realms is a highly complex magic that I am sure does not just happen by simple study.

[midnight tea]

Speaking of that excellent wolf jaw by AslinnMoonbreeze, I think I might know what that Wolf Jaw is. If you look at magic in other fantasy realms, I am sure you will come across something known as a Druid's Totem. A Totem allows a Druid to shapeshift into a particular animal and it usually believed that a certain animal totem represents that Druid's spirit.

 

I think the Wolf Jaw bone is SolaFen's Totem. I think each and every mage who are capable of shapeshifting have some form of Totem that is unique to them which allows them to shapeshift. Yes I know Morrigan tells us that we just have to study a particular animal closely to be that animal but shapeshifting magic in most fantasy realms is a highly complex magic that I am sure does not just happen by simple study.

 

Hmm, well... Morrigan DOES have what seems to be raven feathers on her brooch (or whatever it is pinned to her left shoulder), and we've seen in DAI that she can transform into it, so you may as well be right.

 

I mean, it's not the first time we discuss the very real possibility of Solas being a shapeshifter, which may be a reason why he managed to lose Leliana's people as quickly as he does - though considering that there's some evidence to suggest that shapeshifting was something that might've been easy for elves of old, I gotta wonder how much it's necessary for him to have it. I mean, it predominantly served as a pretty obvious clue to his identity, so question is whether it needs to do anything else from now on?

[Cee]

Painted the wolf jaw tonight. I added gold paint into my final layers to help make it like, shimmery. It kind of catches light a lot in game, and sometimes has a bit of a brassy colour to it. 

Spoiler

 

The gold was a nice touch since it really does capture the bits of shine when it catches the light. I still kind of want to make a very small one of these in clay and put it on tiny cord for a subtle necklace.
 

[Cee]

Hmm, well... Morrigan DOES have what seems to be raven feathers on her brooch (or whatever it is pinned to her left shoulder), and we've seen in DAI that she can transform into it, so you may as well be right.

 

I mean, it's not the first time we discuss the very real possibility of Solas being a shapeshifter, which may be a reason why he managed to lose Leliana's people as quickly as he does - though considering that there's some evidence to suggest that shapeshifting was something that might've been easy for elves of old, I gotta wonder how much it's necessary for him to have it. I mean, it predominantly served as a pretty obvious clue to his identity, so question is whether it needs to do anything else from now on?

 

I'm not sure if they're retconning DAO stuff but her first transformation most of us were probably familiar with was when she turned into a spider in the DAO trailer. I doubt they'd retcon this, and depending which way you handle your choices, she may have also just gained dragon transformation like mother.

 

In the matter of Solas leaving, I always figured he was able to disappear so readily because he used the eluvian network, but that's another possibility for sure.
 

[Cee]

This was very romantic. You have a beautiful way with words!

 

Thank you.  

 

I had a hard time finishing the one I put up last night (which may be weird since I had already finished the one that came after it and had that up) so it kind of got shelved for about a month but yesterday I felt inspired again.
 

[midnight tea]

I'm not sure if they're retconning DAO stuff but her first transformation most of us were probably familiar with was when she turned into a spider in the DAO trailer. I doubt they'd retcon this, and depending which way you handle your choices, she may have also just gained dragon transformation like mother.

 

In the matter of Solas leaving, I always figured he was able to disappear so readily because he used the eluvian network, but that's another possibility for sure.
 

 

Well yes, but that assumes that there's an intact eluvian anywhere close to ruins of Temple of the Sacred Ashes... and the closest we know of is in Skyhold, which lies north of the Temple, while Solas was seen heading West. I'm also pretty sure that Leliana's people would track him heading towards a huge, glowing mirror.

 

Therefore the more likely possibility for me is a. he shapeshifted and escaped in animal form, b. he disappeared in a puff of smoke, like Flemythal does when we summon her to Mythal's altar and c. he modified Leliana's people memories, like he did Cole's.

[Uirebhiril]

Further thought: Fen'harel's slow arrow: the children who survived were the shemlen and commoners. His slow arrow was the Veil, meant to kill the beast (Blight) but it also took out most of the Creators. Felassan approves +50. Might be wrong but it would make the allegory make sense. Though I think Felassan believed Fen'harel to be lost or dead.

 

You know, I really like the idea of that being the case, if we were to translate it into a "real" event. Interesting thought for sure.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

 

I saw this on tumblr and hadn't considered the implications:
 

 
I think that hooded statue is the same as the one in the Exalted Plains, "The Raven":
 
This mysterious hooded figure in Citadelle du Corbeau was nicknamed "the Raven" after the second Exatled March. The human forces - unfamiliar with elven iconography - saw the shadow the statue cast upon the courtyard, and imagined dark wings spread over the keep. Some years later, scholars of elven history hypothesized that the elves may have intended the sculpture as a representation of Dirthamen, the elven god of Secrets.
 
So we have Mythal kneeling before Urthemiel, beneath a statue of a stabbed Dirthamen.

 

So many thoughts.. Someone help me think clearly!  .

 

That statue is also the "watcher" in the emerald graves, above the entrance to Fairbanks' camp. And its in Calenhad's Foothold fortress in the hinterlands, though if it was there before the fortress or moved there after the fortress was built, no idea.

 

What is Urthemiel is doing?

 

In the end it's Mythal that takes the soul from him, before that though..

Spoiler

 

He's up to something.

They're in one of those blood circles I keep seeing on the floor of the locations of Solas' artifacts. 

 

I didn't realise that the statue was of Dirthamen! Wow. Perhaps he was betrayed by his followers - from the mission in his temple, it seems that he demanded a lot of those who worshipped him. That screams forboding. Otherwise, it could simply represent secrets of the past being spilt and shared around. Although not without cost, it seems.

 

 

I wish I could write fluff, I find it so trying All I can do is bleak, angsty, feelsy stuff - and occasionally, some humour.

Given the prominence of Fen'Harel statues in the Lost temple of Dirthamen, it seems like Dirth and Fen might have been allied or even friends. I mean, the first statue you see when entering Dirthamen's Temple is of the Dread Wolf. Such a friendship would make sense imo given Fen's personality, love for cleverness, etc. Knowing secrets is helpful to tricking opponents, and secrets are Dirthamen's specialty.

 

Now that I think of it, there's a Fen'Harel statue in close proximity to the watcher statue in the graves, too. Its overlooking the entrance/canyon while he's in the waterffall on the other side of camp. 

 

So yeah, I think they were allied. Mythal would have been another ally in that group. She got backstabbed, maybe Dirthamen did, too?

 

More I think about this, the more intensely curious I become about the group dynamics of the pantheon. I pray one day we may get a playable flashback to ancient arlathan or something so we can see for ourselves.