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[Brass_Buckles]

I agree with everything you said except the Lavellan part. Like I mentioned above, Old Flame doesn't mean lover, it means they have history and that's what it is. The way I see it, if it was a love relationship, then something happened the course of a coupe millennia (give or take) that changed the nature of their relationship. Having a past relationship with Mythal doesn't preclude him developing feelings for someone else.

 

 

As for many murderers I can't really say I didn't drink from the well and didn't see it in the wiki. I'll check it out. Even if it is so that doesn't mean Elgar'nan was alone in his vengeance. He easily could've used the rebellion as an excuse to rally the other gods to help him murder her.

 

Anyways I'm not hear to defend an idea that I think might be possible. I was just throwing it out there. She could very well have a Maternal or fraternal relationship with Fen, I'm just entertaining a poetic narrative is all. I would've thought the Solas fans would be delighted with the thought, but I guess they're jealous and want him all to themselves... that's petty girls (that last part was a joke by the way, please don't get offended)

 

Specifically Abelas compares the murderers to the Venatori, and that, to me, speaks volumes about the kind of person in charge of the orders to go murder Mythal.

 

I also find Dirthamen's disappearance suspicious, especially when paired with the bleeding statue of Dirthamen in the Fade.  Interestingly, I don't recall that Solas said much negative about Dirthamen, compared to Falon'din.  Dirthamen could have been murdered prior to Mythal, and that would put him on the same side as both Solas and Mythal.  Still more interesting, that would probably have put him at odds with his soul-brother, Falon'din.  That is, of course, assuming that Fen'harel and Falon'din experienced some degree of enmity--which maybe they didn't.  The bleeding statue in the Fade would suggest some form of betrayal, though, and it could have even been Falon'din who betrayed Dirthamen.

 

However, it's also possible that Dirthamen disappeared because Fen'harel sealed him away--and Solas likely looks upon those actions with regret at Dirthamen's Temple after seeing what became of Dirthamen's followers thereafter.

 

I think it all ties in to the Sinner, somehow.  The Sinner, like Corypheus, wanted to be a god.  Maybe he wanted to be the only god. Maybe he was powerful enough to muster followers.  Maybe those followers killed Mythal.  The sinner "belonged to" Dirthamen, so that could arguably be the betrayal that caused Dirthamen's disappearance, if not his outright death.  Hard to say.

[Brass_Buckles]

We may also take into consideration that moon might be HIS symbol as well.... Hmmm...

 

Fen'harel is depicted as a wolf with a disc or orb behind him.  I had suggested in the past that this might be representative of the moon, or a moon.

 

We know of two moons for Thedas.  It could be there are three, and one is simply rarely seen.  Or it could be that the wolf is considered connected or bound to the moon in some other way.

 

Rarely do you see a statue of Mythal without Fen'harel's statue close by.  Fen'harel's statue also shows up in Dirthamen's temple.  I wonder would he also show up in Falon'din's?

[Sifr]

You might have missed my previous post, but if her murderers were multiple people, it's unlikely Elgar'nan was to blame.  At least, not directly.  Though it does seem to me more and more that although the Dalish attribute Elgar'nan to being the head of the pantheon, the actual leader was Mythal.  Elgar'nan figures very little into elven lore, as far as we've seen.  But perhaps we simply haven't seen enough yet to know.

 

From little we know of him Elgar'nan had a bit of a temper and was prone to overreacting to the tiniest thing, so perhaps the reason he features so little is because everyone was trying to keep him out of the way and placated as much as possible?

[Brass_Buckles]

From little we know of him Elgar'nan had a bit of a temper and was prone to overreacting to the tiniest thing, so perhaps the reason he features so little is because everyone was trying to keep him out of the way and placated as much as possible?

 

In which case he's still not the true head of the pantheon.  Mythal calmed him, Mythal took charge.  If he's spending more time being subdued than doing anything, then it's hard to say he's the man in charge.

[midnight tea]

Fen'harel is depicted as a wolf with a disc or orb behind him.  I had suggested in the past that this might be representative of the moon, or a moon.

 

We know of two moons for Thedas.  It could be there are three, and one is simply rarely seen.  Or it could be that the wolf is considered connected or bound to the moon in some other way.

 

Well, the moon is pretty often associated with the wolf... which is terribly ironic, considering that AFAIK wolves AREN'T nocturnal creatures by nature - it's humans that made them change their hunting habits.

 

Anyway - we do know that moon (one of the moons at least) is at least somewhat associated with Fen'Harel and so is the eclipse...

[Brass_Buckles]

It feels almost like parallels to Celene and Gaspard and Andraste and her husband.

 

I don't know that it relates too closely to Celene and Gaspard.  Celene is an underhanded, cold-hearted player of the Game.  Gaspard is more direct but he's a racist warmonger.  Their enmity exists because neither wishes to relinquish any power to the other; otherwise they could have married and perhaps strengthened the Orlesian empire together (despite being cousins, and despite Celene being a lesbian).

 

Andraste and Maferath... that marriage may have been a political affair, or maybe not.  Either way, Maferath supposedly grew jealous of Andraste's attention to her faith.  Not sure there's really a parallel there either, unless you believe that Elgar'nan betrayed Mythal.

 

I personally consider it more likely that Mythal betrayed or tricked Elgar'nan--and she did so for the greater good, not out of malice.  He was a very powerful person with a terrible temper.  He needed to be kept in check.  Perhaps she didn't simply subdue him, but sent him into uthenera, or locked him away somehow.  It could have been the reason that Solas later decided to seal away the other gods when they started causing problems.

[Cee]

I was going to post about the dev talk on the 29th

 

Is going to be around Noon Eastern time right ?

 

The big one on Twitch that we're all waiting for? 7:30pm eastern/4:30 PAX time. My plan is basically, home by 7, make food, sit back and Chromecast Twitch to my TV for couch panel watching and internet on laptop.

 

At least they are telling us something this time.
 

[Brass_Buckles]

Well, the moon is pretty often associated with the wolf... which is terribly ironic, considering that AFAIK wolves AREN'T nocturnal creatures by nature - it's humans that made them change their hunting habits.

 

Anyway - we do know that moon (one of the moons at least) is at least somewhat associated with Fen'Harel and so is the eclipse...

 

Yeah, and the moon is the only thing I can think of that makes sense for what that disc with Fen'harel's mosaics represents.

 

Also, Fen'harel's statues are often represented howling.  I wonder if that means he's supposed to be able to sing.  And if he's able to sing, why didn't he sing to Lavellan?  (Yeah I know, random tangent, but... still.  Cullen fans got to hear him sing!  Maybe not a serenade but still...)

[laurelinvanyar]

According to legend, Elgar'nan is the first child of the Sun and Earth. Sun gets jealous that his awesome son pays more attention to his mother (Earth) and throws a hissy, scorching the earth and killing everything. Elgar'nan avenges the Earth and buries the Sun as punishment. Mythal steps out of the ocean like "Whoa whoa whoa we kind of need that, buddy!" and Elgar'nan agrees to let the Sun out during the day. 

 

Obviously this legend is allegorical, but Elgar'nan is still the first god. To me he is head of the Pantheon, even if Mythal wears the pants so to speak in their relationship. 

[Brass_Buckles]

According to legend, Elgar'nan is the first child of the Sun and Earth. Sun gets jealous that his awesome son pays more attention to his mother (Earth) and throws a hissy, scorching the earth and killing everything. Elgar'nan avenges the Earth and buries the Sun as punishment. Mythal steps out of the ocean like "Whoa whoa whoa we kind of need that, buddy!" and Elgar'nan agrees to let the Sun out during the day. 

 

Obviously this legend is allegorical, but Elgar'nan is still the first god. To me he is head of the Pantheon, even if Mythal wears the pants so to speak in their relationship. 

 

The head of the pantheon is whoever "wears the pants," frankly speaking.  Being the first there doesn't make you the most important person.  Maybe you're just the person setting the table for everyone else.

 

Edited to add:  THAT SAID, if further lore evidence comes to light to show that Elgar'nan was in any way in charge of more than he appears to have been, I would be willing to revise my opinion.  Just being first of the pantheon and presumably a man isn't enough for me to think he's the leader.  The head of the pantheon would be the one everyone ultimately looks to for guidance, the one who rules them and keeps them together.  Thus far, we've seen no evidence that this was Elgar'nan and lots of evidence that it was Mythal.

[Brass_Buckles]

Actually that's what I was sort of implying. I wouldn't say Andraste intentionally outshone her husband, but she was obsessed with impressing the Maker and her husband betrayed her because everyone was being slaughtered because they would follow her everywhere because of her charms. As for Gaspard, he was the rightful heir, but Celene charmed her way in and he was ready to betray her and take her throne that he was next in line for. I honestly see women as the stronger rulers in DA and I don't know if it's intentional or not. Even Anora is stronger than Alistair and your own male Cousland.

 

Well, to be fair to Cousland, it's kind of hard to rule when you've run off to find a cure for the taint...

 

But yes, I see what you mean.  And Gaspard did betray Celene by starting the civil war, instead of simply conceding defeat gracefully (or offering a marriage contract as his first course of action, rather than his third or fourth at a time when it wasn't going to be taken seriously and was in fact rather insulting).

 

I don't doubt that Elgar'nan started out as the leader, but then Mythal stepped in and she was able to handle things better.  Power shifted, and Mythal became the leader of the pantheon.  Elgar'nan was overshadowed.  He might have been jealous or angry about this; in fact, unless he was in uthenera or recognized the value of more even-headed leadership, he probably was.  But that doesn't mean he's the one who betrayed Mythal.  Could he have helped orchestrate it, though?  Definitely.  But so far there's no real evidence against him, and quite a bit of evidence against someone who wished to be a god.  (Elgar'nan could very well have encouraged this individual, though.)

[Brass_Buckles]

I'm not seeing him as the betrayer either. I do question Andruil though as a possibility. She went insane from being in the Void. Solas is a good liar though and I also have a strong feeling the Old Gods are connected to the Elves and somehow this might also relate to Dumat, and Solas himself looking longingly at the Black City makes me question what he did that he's trying to undo now. He also strongly dislikes the Wardens for killing the Archdemons. I keep thinking there's a connection.

 

I don't think he's actually a good liar at all, except in omission of the truth.  The one time he directly lies to you because of a question you ask him at the ball in Halamshiral, he will disapprove of it--likely because you put him into a position where he felt he had to lie to you.

 

When he tells you of the things he's seen in the Fade, he's not lying about that either.  He did see them in the Fade.  He's just omitting that he also saw them in person before he saw them in the Fade.

 

If you take Solas and Cassandra both into your party, and really listen to what they say, you will discover that Solas deeply values the truth and those who dedicate themselves to finding it.  That's why he respects Cassandra so deeply--because she is true to her title and she tries to find and understand the truth.  He calls her Seeker out of respect and he does so without irony.  He also makes a remark at some point that he attempts to speak the truth even if it isn't necessarily what the person he's talking to wishes to hear.

 

The problem is, just because he mostly tells the truth, doesn't mean he can't carefully omit certain facts in order to manipulate situations into his favor.

 

Could Solas have been a lying liar who lies in the past?  Oh definitely, especially if he played at politics like he alludes to having done.  But then again, maybe not, considering how skilled he is at revealing just the amount of truth he needs to, while failing to mention important facts that would fill in the entire picture.

[Ulv Elskeren]

I wish I could find a post I read a while back.  One of the other threads was going through weird parallels and somebody pointed out:

 

Andraste, Gilivhan, and "The Betrayer" Maferath

Andruil, Ghilan'nain, and "The Betrayer" Fen'Harel

 

Coincidence?  Could be.  Or the writers might be jabbing us with a sharp stick.   

[Brass_Buckles]

I heard he was written to lie a lot, but they changed it. It's a good thing too. He's truly the underdog of the Gods and to have him outright a liar and user would have ruined the character development he's had if compared to a younger Dread Wolf full of mischief and deception. In the concept art of him with hair, I get the impression he looked that way as a young God, but his bald and tired look now represents all he's been through. 

 

He's a good liar in the sense when you question the connection of Old Gods and Elves, he says neither are connected and says it so believably and passionately I wonder if he believes it himself or he's in denial of something.

 

It explains why all my Inquisitors are good friends with him. I play an honest one who does not believe she is the Herald, but someone that can make a difference and give people something to believe in. Probably why Cass is my best girl pal too.

 

Actually, his precise phrasing is basically, "There is no lore connecting them."  He puts a slight emphasis on the word "lore."

 

I personally do not believe the Old Gods and the Creators are one and the same.  A dialogue with Cole suggests that the Creators are still stowed away somewhere, and you also have to figure in that the Tevinter Imperium isn't exactly fond of the elves.  Why would they worship an elven pantheon?

 

What I don't discount is that the unknown "chosen" of the gods, who were also allowed to take the "divine winged form," could be the Old Gods.  This is especially significant if you consider that for them to be one and the same, there would actually need to be fewer Old Gods than Elvhen gods, given that Mythal was murdered and possibly so was Dirthamen (it's unclear whether he was murdered or disappeared because he had been sealed away).  Instead, there may in fact be an extra Old God.

 

The Creators also may have reached out to the Avvar at some point.

 

I guess you could argue that, if the Creators and Old Gods are the same, or at least connected, they attempted to dupe the Tevinter magisters into setting them free, only to have it backfire.  I mean, SOMETHING started turning them into Archdemons, right?

[Brass_Buckles]

I have a feeling he's using wordplay there lol because my Inquisitor never asked more, though I would have if I had the option, but he seems really bitter when he talks to her about it. Unless he's afraid because his Orb is being used by a Tevinter Magister and the Inquisition might turn on him if they knew of his goof.

 

My only confusion is why he's so against killing the Old Gods if they have nothing to do with his Gods? His reaction to the OG prison in the Western Approach was a curiosity. That Ancient journal is also questionable. Wardens of old were hunting Archdemons who were not awake, so why did they call them Archdemons? Is it just their way of referring to them or are the OG already Blighted and asleep because of that, but when they are awoke by the Darkspawn, they break free?

 

The Blight itself seems possibly connected to the Void. Also did you see parts of the Black City floating near you in the Fade? Cole mentions they remembered being higher up before it was awakened and fell. It seems some part of the Golden City might be true.

 

Well, that was kind of my point.  He's not actually lying--there's no lore connecting the two.  But that doesn't mean they aren't connected, does it?  Only that there's no lore involved.  So one could suspect they are connected, even if they aren't one and the same (and I don't think they can be one and the same but maybe I am wrong).

 

Solas is against killing the Archdemons likely because he knows something about the Blight that we don't.  I have a personal suspicion that if the darkspawn stop digging to reach the Old Gods and turn them into Archdemons, what will happen is an unrelenting assault of darkspawn upon all life both above and below the ground.  The Old Gods do not direct them; they merely become the generals for whatever is commanding the Blight.  The fact that they distract the darkspawn and therefore slow the progression of the taint across Thedas is likely precisely why Solas isn't keen on killing the Old Gods.  He will even comment about the Wardens slowing the inevitable fate of the world and giving everyone more time.

 

And yes... in the Nightmare's realm, we were basically surrounded by the windows and walls of the Black City. They looked slimy.  Possibly Blighted.  And it's strange that we were surrounded by the Black City because we certainly couldn't enter it; the windows and doors would have been much too small.

[Avejajed]

Dorian says that Corypheus creates himself a dragon to "emulate the gods of old", and we know that traditionally, of course, the Tevinter gods are thought of as the dragons themselves, but what if history is simply misunderstanding and the dragons are only a part of the god and are, as Corypheus', sort of like horcruxes.

The connection between the old gods and the Elvish gods is undeniably there, we're just missing the piece of info that would make it make sense.

I'm of a mind that the Tevinter old gods are indeed the Elvish pantheon, or at least they have twin types between them. Sometimes I think they are all one group of people who play gods for every culture and each group simply calls them by different name.

Thinking about it makes my head hurts but the posts where people directly compare old gods and elvish gods, well, it's too good for me to completely shrug off.

I had a bad dream and so I came on here to get into an old god conversation and now I'm better. Night guys!

[ChuChu]

The connection between the old gods and the Elvish gods is undeniably there, we're just missing the piece of info that would make it make sense.
 

And that connection might be the Old Gods are actually allll dragons shapeshifted from godly elves!! Bahaha

[CapricornSun]

Sharing some art.

 

Gorgeous comic of the Solavellan post-game fic Pulchra Tenebris. Based on Chapter 7 of the fic. (I recommend giving this fic a read. )

Spoiler

Source: http://thefateshaper...olaslavellan-by

 

 

Cute Solavellan art. (Slightly NSFW)

Spoiler

Source: http://fischotterche...h-her-hair-down

 

 

Solas with a mustache.

Spoiler

Source: http://mon-the-lemur...et-away-from-me

 

 

Solas wearing the Three Wolf Moon shirt.

Spoiler

Source: http://rad-pax-art.t...727751/meme-egg

 

 

POC Solas

Spoiler

Source: http://mortyksavesth...las-1-no-hair-2