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[Sable Rhapsody]

Spoiler

Ok, he specifically says that everybody will die. Like 3 times. Anybody who lived after the fall of Arlathan is going to die. 

 

Even discounting that, everybody suddenly becoming mages is a BIG problem. You suddenly have all these newly made mages who have no idea how to use their powers = innocent people dead. You suddenly have new mages who have no idea how to protect themselves from demons = abominations and innocent people dead. You suddenly have a world where spirits and regular people interact = innocent spirits twisted into demons and again INNOCENT PEOPLE DEAD. 

 

Let's look at this objectively. The outcome with the least innocent people dead is the best outcome. But that's just my "perspective"

 

Spoiler

Agreed.  There's no two ways about it; his plan is terrible and terrible for Thedas.  Period.

 

So.  For those out there who aren't trying to redeem him, what's the plan for killing the Dread Wolf?  He absorbed Mythal's power; maybe there's a way to separate him from it, depower him back down to DAI Solas?  Though that does sound horribly like the Rite of Tranquility.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Spoiler

Solas didn't seem to care about innocent people when he created the veil and all the cities and pathways in the crossroads collapsed and millions (probably many more) innocent elves died.

 

His sense of morality is starting to show itself as extremely twisted.

 

 

Spoiler

Probably because he thought it'd be worse for them in the long run if the Enavuris had their way.  Garrus's line from ME3 comes to mind: "Ten billion people die over here so twenty billion can live over there."  Solas doesn't seem to be handling that burden as well as Shep did.

[laurelinvanyar]

Spoiler

Agreed.  There's no two ways about it; his plan is terrible and terrible for Thedas.  Period.

 

So.  For those out there who aren't trying to redeem him, what's the plan for killing the Dread Wolf?  He absorbed Mythal's power; maybe there's a way to separate him from it, depower him back down to DAI Solas?  Though that does sound horribly like the Rite of Tranquility.

Hit him with a rolled up newspaper? Bad puppy. 

[Sports72Xtrm]

Spoiler

Ok, he specifically says that everybody will die. Like 3 times. Anybody who lived after the fall of Arlathan is going to die. 

 

Even discounting that, everybody suddenly becoming mages is a BIG problem. You suddenly have all these newly made mages who have no idea how to use their powers = innocent people dead. You suddenly have new mages who have no idea how to protect themselves from demons = abominations and innocent people dead. You suddenly have a world where spirits and regular people interact = innocent spirits twisted into demons and again INNOCENT PEOPLE DEAD. 

 

Let's look at this objectively. The outcome with the least innocent people dead is the best outcome. But that's just my "perspective"

Spoiler

He said something along the lines of "this world must die" or something like that but in what context? Obviously, he doesn't want the world to explode as there would be no place for him to rest his head and dream or his beloved elves to prosper. And we don't know that he has a method to make a species extinct. Some will die for sure, but I don't know if he plans is genocide. I assert that you are inferring to much that he aspires the entire extinction of everything not an elf. Rather he might mean he will change the ecosystem and many will die because they cannot adapt to it.

 

As for your second paragraph, if everyone's a mage, if spirits roam freely, so what? That is the new reality if he succeeds. People who survive do so because they learned how to survive and have the will to do it. Innocent people is defined by you as what? Those too weak or too stupid to survive? A rabbit is prey to a wolf but it is not innocence that protect him. It's the harsh reality of those with the strength and knowledge to adapt survive. I'm trying to say that your "perspective" is not taken into account by natural selection. That is objectivity.

[BoscoBread]

Spoiler

Agreed.  There's no two ways about it; his plan is terrible and terrible for Thedas.  Period.

 

So.  For those out there who aren't trying to redeem him, what's the plan for killing the Dread Wolf?  He absorbed Mythal's power; maybe there's a way to separate him from it, depower him back down to DAI Solas?  Though that does sound horribly like the Rite of Tranquility.

SPOILERS

 

Spoiler

I don't think you can. He absorbed the power, not her.  So it would just be weakening him. Maybe runes -- LIke with Samson?  

 

Im on the redeemer path with the Lavallan but I kind of was like...dude you're hotter when you're more evil. The patornizing concern married with 'well im going to kill you all' is icky.  But anyways she's going to try to talk him down. IDEALISM WORKS Y'ALL. 

[chibielf]

Just finished the DLC.  Definitely worth it story-wise, although...

Spoiler

SERIOUSLY SPOILERS

Spoiler

Don't expect a happy ending.

 

Spoiler

Welp, the devs weren't entirely honest talking about how the DLC wasn't about Solas.  It's kind of like saying Inquisition isn't about Solas.  I suppose it isn't, but he's still the key piece on which everything turns, the one who sets everything in motion.

 

Solas aside, this was definitely one of my favorite pieces of DLC, between lore and exploration and companion dialogue.  Being able to schmooze with everyone was great, and at one point I turned to my boyfriend and said, "With friends like these, who needs Solas?"  Sera and Dorian's dialogue in particular pulled at my heartstrings; considering how badly Sera and my Lavellan handled the aftermath of Mythal, Sera's offer to join the Jennies was just what she needed.  

 

As for our Dread Wolf himself...I'm glad I was braced for heartbreak.  I didn't want his plotline to be "And then I will tear down the VEEEEEIL" TBH.  It was IMO too obvious and Bond villain-ish, but that might just be because we all worked it out months ago in speculation.  I am glad that Lavellan gets to tell him two important things, though: 1) she loves him and 2) she's going to save both him, AND her world.  Mine would never, ever help him destroy the Veil.  Not in a million years,  But I'm really glad that doesn't mean she has to be his enemy.

 

Spoiler

When did you get this option?

[jellobell]

Spoiler

You suddenly have new mages who have no idea how to protect themselves from demons = abominations and innocent people dead. You suddenly have a world where spirits and regular people interact = innocent spirits twisted into demons and again INNOCENT PEOPLE DEAD.

Spoiler

Actually, with the veil gone then wouldn't mages be immune to possession? Spirits would just be a part of the world. I got the sense that everyone would have access to magic, and thus abominations wouldn't exist. After all, spirits possess people because they want to experience life. With the veil gone there's no need.

 

I don't deny that Solas's plan will have catastrophic consequences, but I don't think taking down the veil will make mages more likely to be possessed.

 

In fact, I think one of the reasons Solas is so horrified at the veil's effects is what it did to mages. Not only are mages frequently turned into abominations because of the separation of the fade from the material world, but this has given rise to the entire circle system. Solas indirectly enslaved every mage in the world who isn't in Tevinter. That makes for one hell of a, "oh my god, what have I done?" moment. Leaving aside the effects on elves specifically.

[TheEggCrusher]

Spoiler

Probably because he thought it'd be worse for them in the long run if the Enavuris had their way.  Garrus's line from ME3 comes to mind: "Ten billion people die over here so twenty billion can live over there."  Solas doesn't seem to be handling that burden as well as Shep did.

Spoiler

I understand the logic, but still ... being the one to make the decision that kills so many people and brings down an empire...

 

you've gotta have guts. and imagine the psychological repercussions of that. i'm actually shocked he had enough normal emotion left that he didn't beat out of himself to fall in love with Lavellan. that's an accomplishment in itself.

[laurelinvanyar]

He said something along the lines of "this world must die" or something like that but in what context? Obviously, he doesn't want the world to explode as there would be no place for him to rest his head and dream or his beloved elves to prosper. And we don't know that he has a method to make a species extinct. Some will die for sure, but I don't know if he plans is genocide. I assert that you are inferring to much that he aspires the entire extinction of everything not an elf.

 

As for your second paragraph, if everyone's a mage, if spirits roam freely, so what? That is the new reality if he succeeds. People who survive do so because they learned how to survive and have the will to do it. Innocent people is defined by you as what? Those too weak or too stupid to survive? A rabbit is prey to a wolf but it is not innocence that protect him. It's the harsh reality of those with the strength and knowledge to adapt. I'm trying to say that your "perspective" is not taken into account by natural selection.

Spoiler

Hi Solas. Trying to shore up your PR? Btw, quit watching me in my sleep. That's some Edward Cullen level creepy.

By that logic, nazi germany was totally justified. "For the greater good", right?

[Sable Rhapsody]

Spoiler

When did you get this option?

 

Spoiler

It's just the gist of the "I won't give up on you" final dialogue vs. the "I'm going to hunt you down."  You don't actually get to change his mind in this piece of DLC.

 

And I'm happy that they give us the opportunity to try, even if we don't succeed in the long run.  I'm ok with things turning out badly as long as I get a say in how my PC chooses to react.

[Sable Rhapsody]

*snipped*

 

Please tag spoilers!

[Violett'e]

Here.  Have a kitty hug.

 

 

As for continuing to follow the story:

Spoiler

IMO the important thing is that Lavellan gets to try redeeming him, even if it doesn't work out right now.  She doesn't have to hate him.  She doesn't have to forget him.  And he clearly doesn't let go of her either.  Yes, they're continuing to string us along with hope.  Part of me is really glad, because that means their story isn't over and I get to continue following it.  And part of me wants to punch Patrick Weekes in the face, because it means I THOUGHT I was going to be done with feels rollercoaster, and I'm totally not

Spoiler

 Ok. After your words... oh no. I will begin again to hope... 

But you can be right. And yeah, part of me wants to punch Patrick... So much...

Patrick, please don't kill him all right? Or may be give me an options at first. 

Please. 

[Sports72Xtrm]

Spoiler

Hi Solas. Trying to shore up your PR? Btw, quit watching me in my sleep. That's some Edward Cullen level creepy.

By that logic, nazi germany was totally justified. "For the greater good", right?

Spoiler

Is Shepard a nazi for blowing up all those Batarian colonies. Deeds, good and evil, have distinctions that be compared but if we generalized everything we don't like because of fear and throwing away reason for sterotypes, then we don't try to understand, we just stigmatize something that offends you.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Ok. After your words... oh no. I will begin again to hope... 

But you can be right. And yeah, part of me wants to punch Patrick... So much...

Patrick. please don't kill him all right? Or may be give me an options at first. 

Please.

 

Spoiler

Still room for optimism IMO  Or maybe that's just me; my Lavellan is definitely the most idealistic of my PCs, and her ability to believe in people could put Paragon Shep to shame.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[jellobell]

Spoiler

Still room for optimism IMO  Or maybe that's just me; my Lavellan is definitely the most idealistic of my PCs, and her ability to believe in people could put Paragon Shep to shame.

Spoiler

Honestly, this DLC is what made me hope again. It has to mean something that the Inquisitor is able to make it her mission to save Solas, not just stop him. I don't think it'll be sunshine and roses, but they're both still alive, and both still have feelings for each other (and both of them know this). And now that she's got all of the information and a goal, my Inquisitor is once again on track. This is one hell of a better ending than we got in vanilla DA:I.

 

And it even says that he visits her in her dreams. I like to think that my inquisitor takes every possible opportunity to remind him that she's gonna save his ass whether he likes it or not.

[Violett'e]

Spoiler

Still room for optimism IMO  Or maybe that's just me; my Lavellan is definitely the most idealistic of my PCs, and her ability to believe in people could put Paragon Shep to shame.

Spoiler

No, it's right. Solas is not just a villain. My english is too bad and I can't say many things... But I know it. And I hope... my Lavellan will help him...Oh, I'm really still hope for something... It's fun.

[MoonDrummer]

Spoiler

Okay. Wait. What. Do you understand that you have just said? You have defended genocide on such a massive scale I don't even know where to begin.

By undoing modern Thedas to recapture the empire that was lost and turning back time... Solas would be destroying THOUSANDS of years of people. Genocide on such a scale this world has never even begun to see. All the men, women, children of almost four thousand years. All of their history, all of their art, literature, architecture, successes, failures, hopes, dreams... Lost in an instant. Solas sees modern Thedas as a MISTAKE. He saw your world as walking through a SEA OF TRANQUIL. I can't... I can't even.

If you're saying that destruction on this scale is OKAY because of natural selection I sincerely worry for you.

So I dunno. Hi Solas, I guess.

 

Spoiler

It seems like he has, or is going to have more blood on his hands than the pantheon he overthrew in the first place...

[Sable Rhapsody]

Spoiler

Honestly, this DLC is what made me hope again. It has to mean something that the Inquisitor is able to make it her mission to save Solas, not just stop him. I don't think it'll be sunshine and roses, but they're both still alive, and both still have feelings for each other (and both of them know this). And now that she's got all of the information and a goal, my Inquisitor is once again on track. This is one hell of a better ending than we got in vanilla DA:I.

 

And it even says that he visits her in her dreams. I like to think that my inquisitor takes every possible opportunity to remind him that she's gonna save his ass whether he likes it or not.

 

Oh trust me, fanfiction is incoming.  Buckets of fanfiction.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Spoiler

Okay. Wait. What. Do you understand that you have just said? You have defended genocide on such a massive scale I don't even know where to begin.

By undoing modern Thedas to recapture the empire that was lost and turning back time... Solas would be destroying THOUSANDS of years of people. Genocide on such a scale this world has never even begun to see. All the men, women, children of almost four thousand years. All of their history, all of their art, literature, architecture, successes, failures, hopes, dreams... Lost in an instant. Solas sees modern Thedas as a MISTAKE. He saw your world as walking through a SEA OF TRANQUIL. I can't... I can't even.

If you're saying that destruction on this scale is OKAY because of natural selection I sincerely worry for you.

So I dunno. Hi Solas, I guess.

 

Spoiler

As I've been saying, if a human species continues to reproduce, if a dwarven species continues to reproduce, then race lives on and it's not genocide. It's their culture that dies because the ecosystem changes. So their culture dies? The dwarves lose their culture when they become surface dwarves and because of the darkspawn onslaught. Tevinter was once a great empire but now is just a normal nation. Cultures die, change, and evolve because that's what change does. That's what happens when things change. I'm not horrified that the status quo will change, it's the arrogance of man that they are entitled to be content with the status quo when it's nature that dictates it. So Orlais or Ferelden or the Chantry may die. I'm okay with that.

[laurelinvanyar]

Spoiler

Actually, with the veil gone then wouldn't mages be immune to possession? Spirits would just be a part of the world. I got the sense that everyone would have access to magic, and thus abominations wouldn't exist. After all, spirits possess people because they want to experience life. With the veil gone there's no need.

 

I don't deny that Solas's plan will have catastrophic consequences, but I don't think taking down the veil will make mages more likely to be possessed.

 

In fact, I think one of the reasons Solas is so horrified at the veil's effects is what it did to mages. Not only are mages frequently turned into abominations because of the separation of the fade from the material world, but this has given rise to the entire circle system. Solas indirectly enslaved every mage in the world who isn't in Tevinter. That makes for one hell of a, "oh my god, what have I done?" moment. Leaving aside the effects on elves specifically.

Spoiler

Ok. Sure. And what about the spirits, who reflect the minds of the people around them? People who only conceive of "spirits" as "demons". So spirits twist into demons and then act like demons. Innocent people die. 

 

I feel like admiral anderson here. No going forward. No going back. No defeating the reapers. Innocent people die.

[BoscoBread]

Spoiler

Actually, with the veil gone then wouldn't mages be immune to possession? Spirits would just be a part of the world. I got the sense that everyone would have access to magic, and thus abominations wouldn't exist. After all, spirits possess people because they want to experience life. With the veil gone there's no need.

 

I don't deny that Solas's plan will have catastrophic consequences, but I don't think taking down the veil will make mages more likely to be possessed.

 

In fact, I think one of the reasons Solas is so horrified at the veil's effects is what it did to mages. Not only are mages frequently turned into abominations because of the separation of the fade from the material world, but this has given rise to the entire circle system. Solas indirectly enslaved every mage in the world who isn't in Tevinter. That makes for one hell of a, "oh my god, what have I done?" moment. Leaving aside the effects on elves specifically.

 

Spoilers

 

Spoiler

Yeah they would not be prone to posession but the point is sort of moot when the mage in question is dead. Again the world will burn if he goes through with his plan. Including killing all the mages. Everybody. He said everyone in this world has to die.  I take that to mean he's going to open a rift so large he will turn back time to before he put the veil in place.  That's my tinfoil hat theory. 

[BoscoBread]

A 

Dude stop posting spoilers. Use the tags. We've asked. 

 

here's how you use them

 

[.spoiler]

SPOILER TEXT

[/spoiler]

 

Remove the period before the first.  

[MoonDrummer]

Spoiler

A I've been saying, if a human species continues to reproduce, if a dwarven species continues to reproduce, then race lives on and it's not genocide.

Spoiler

 

Do I understand you correctly? The holocaust isn't genocide because the Jewish people continued to reproduce and lived on?

[laurelinvanyar]

Spoiler

Is Shepard a nazi for blowing up all those Batarian colonies. Deeds, good and evil, have distinctions that be compared but if we generalized everything we don't like because of fear and throwing away reason for sterotypes, then we don't try to understand, we just stigmatize something that offends you.

Spoiler

Shepard sacrificed a relatively small number of people to save a relatively large number of people. Solas is doing the opposite. And shep didn't exactly get off scott free, you know. 

 

This argument isn't going anywhere. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯