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[Elessara]

Spoiler

Oh, thank you! Bless you, bless you, heart and soul and all your family with it! 

 

(Sorry to be so mellodramatic, I'm just a little on edge after six hours of dungeon-crawling and maze-searching, and an hour and a half of blundering around the Shattered Library.  )

 

No problem, glad to help!  

[midnight tea]

Spoiler

I know, I did get all of those clues, but it still seemed to me that the build up of something being wrong with the Anchor went from being something that was mildly irritating the Inquisitor more and more, to suddenly getting to the point where everyone thinks I'm a dead elf walking and being forced to cut off an control hand like this was the Evil Dead.

 

The clues were there and there was some foreshadowing, but the pacing wasn't particularly great when it came to the actual plotline about the Anchor, especially when it came to the resolution. Seriously, why wasn't there any option to ask Solas if he can do something to fix it or remove it from us?

 

I mean, his goal was to use the Anchor to enter the Fade and tear down the Veil, so wouldn't he have had to remove it from himself at some point? Or is it because he's one of the Evanuris and we're a puny mortal, so we're burning ourselves out trying to contain the power?

 

Spoiler

I think that's a very plausible answer, yes.

 

Though let's not forget that Solas heavily implies that he will pay the highest price for his attempt to restore the elvhen people. It's possible that bestowing the Mark upon himself would eventually end in similar fashion - it would destroy him from within... or do something no less bad.

 

I do wonder what really has happened however - did he just take the Anchor for himself? Doubtful, considering he'd be able to immediately follow his initial plans, especially now that he is more powerful than he was before. So, did he destroy it? ... Or is it just dormant?

[Sable Rhapsody]

Spoiler

I mean, his goal was to use the Anchor to enter the Fade and tear down the Veil, so wouldn't he have had to remove it from himself at some point? Or is it because he's one of the Evanuris and we're a puny mortal, so we're burning ourselves out trying to contain the power?

 

Spoiler

I think it boils down to power and knowledge.  Cory, presumably, would have known the proper use of the Anchor.  Solas too.  Quizzy doesn't, and in fact only knows what Solas tells her about it.  Since the Anchor was his own magic, Solas probably would've been able to use it just fine without experiencing the increasing instability that troubles quizzy.

 

Although it does raise the rather nasty thought that he knew the Anchor was going to destabilize eventually.  He knew it would one day kill her, and he said nothing.

[Renmiri1]

this thread is just spoiler tags

[Elessara]

Spoiler

I think that's a very plausible answer, yes.

 

Though let's not forget that Solas heavily implies that he will pay the highest price for his attempt to restore the elvhen people. It's possible that bestowing the Mark upon himself would eventually end in similar fashion - it would destroy him from within... or do something no less bad.

 

I do wonder what really has happened however - did he just take the Anchor for himself? Doubtful, considering he'd be able to immediately follow his initial plans, especially now that he is more powerful than he was before. So, did he destroy it? ... Or is it just dormant?

 

Spoiler

 

So, kinda deja vu here but ... now Solas has to find another way into the Fade, right?  Wonder what he'll try.  And why he needs an army to do it.  I mean, he has spies, agents, forces ... but for what?  His plan is to enter the Fade and tear it down from within.  

 

Also, if that was his plan why is he so horrified at future-Redcliffe?  I mean, the Veil is shattered and I'm pretty sure he said the barrier no longer exists between the physical world and the Fade.  And then he says that the future is an abomination and must never come to pass.  So what gives?  AND the world wasn't destroyed when that happened.  I mean sure, demons everywhere but he seems pretty certain that if he takes the Veil down the world will "burn in the resulting chaos" but that's not what happened in the future.

 

[LliiraAnna]

Alright, so now that some time has passed, I can finally gather my thoughts and form a coherent (possibly XD) opinion. Fairly long rant incoming. All said is purely imo, feel free to disagree.

 

Spoiler

It began yesterday, when I was discussing Trespasser with my friend (also a Solasmancer, but a very... jaded one), and she was like: "Why is this romance even in the game?"  And this got me thinking. I know Weekes said that it's to make Solas's story sadder and to show that there is more to him than being mysterious and vaguely villainous, but apart from that?

 

It's point-less.

 

Remember all these talks about romance having great impact on Solas? Showing him that modern Thedas and its people are not all that bad? Well, guess what? No. He's still the same, romance or no, and still very much planning to destroy the (current) world because he thinks that his idea of what it should be is better. Could be writers playing with the "love redeems everyone and their dog" trope, but damn, it feels like his romance!character development is vasted on his main subplot. He's just a bit sadder about what he does. 

 

And the whole Solavellan relationship gets no real resolution AGAIN. I've been waiting for the DLC to give me some closure, and now I'll have to wait for a couple of years to get it. If they ever bother with this, that is.

 

Solas becoming a villain - and yes, I DO consider him a villain now, even if he's sympathetic - does not surprise me. What (potentionally) bothers me is the fact that it's possible we'll not be able to face him with our Inquisitors anymore, if they decide to go with another MC for the next game. And since it looks like Inky's story is over... no proper Solavellan conclusion (at least from Lav's POV) and a possibility that we'll have to fight him with another random MC who doesn't know him half as well as Inky does? They'll have to put a lot of work into it for it to work, and even so, for me it'd probably just feel... lame.

 

All in all, now it feels painfully apparent that this romance was thrown in at the last minute "for shits and giggles". As much as I love it - it's masterfully written, really - I wish BW would not make such nowhere-going romances anymore. Thane romance in ME3 *was* sad, but it was hard not to guess what's coming, and it *had* a conclusion. Heck, even Jacob's romance had a conclusion, though not a pleasant one. This here lures you in, hits you over your head and then... is left hanging in the air.

 

...this said, it was nice while it lasted. One of the best romances I've ever played. Which makes all this unfinished-ness and pointlessness even sadder.

[Elessara]

this thread is just spoiler tags

 

Spoiler

 

OMG it is not!  .... Oh, wait.

 

Dammit!

 

 

 

Edit to add:  the above is not really a spoiler, it is just a joke and is totally safe to click on.  I promise.

[laurelinvanyar]

Spoiler

Okay, that's interesting... If we end the romance (by picking 'what we had was over') and get the 'friendly' response only, the Inquisitor can tell Solas that he doesn't have to destroy his world and that Inky will prove it.

Solas responds to this: "I will treasure the chance to be wrong again, my friend"

Spoiler

huh. NOW i see where people are coming from with the whole "he wants to be stopped" line of thought. I didn't get this dialogue. This gives me hope for a good redemption arc.

[Solas]

to add:

Spoiler

Now her story as set up for the future, whether that's in my head/writing or what I work from RP-wise if the Quiz is the future PC:

 

I've said before, DAI for me is a story that begins with proud Dalish elf who for all her days has revered the pantheon, put stock in and indeed lives by their lore, felt nostalgia for a past she cannot know, would see the elves returned to their glory of old - the past restored and humans punished for injustices brought against them.  With challenges from her Andrastian companions and Solas, with exposure to City Elves and the human world, and the reveals of the true nature of the pantheon as Dicks, Vallaslin as Bullshit and meeting Mythal etc in base-game - a worldview turned on its heel and shattered. by the time she faces Corypheus, in sharp contrast to the start where she loudly and defensively proclaimed her adherence to elven gods & disbelief in the Maker, by Cory time she angrily tells him **** off, I don't believe in any gods. **** the Creators, and **** what was, and **** her former 'flat-ear 'nonsense. elves are elves. What matters to her by then is all elves of Now, the lot of modern elves, Dalish traditions as reclaimed stuff (vallaslin no longer slavemarkings, now a reclaimed statement of simple identity for example) and how she and they can work together and build a future for themselves. That development is hammered home in Trespasser because it adds to the hatred of gods who were false, and tyrants. The Dalish said they'd never submit again-- she's determined that too right, they won't. Where once she was the Elfiest Elf in terms of being an isolationist xenophobic Velanna on steroids mistaken Dalish.. now she's the Elfiest Elf because the only thing that matters to her now really is protecting the People - HER People, not his version. They are here now, the world just now is theirs, they have no need for gods, bring CE and Dalish together,inform them of the truth, oh and **** those dickbags. Some will join Fen'Harel like we see in the slides, some will hide away and ignore, some will deny, some will attack in anger, but many will feel as she does. She's nearly consumed by the drive to protect them and their world and will do anything in her power to do so. Now he literally is the Dread Wolf of their wrong tales because he does threaten all that they are. And she's the hound. and if he can't be swayed yes she will absolutely kill him. I said ominously many months ago that she's no stranger to killing gods.

[Elessara]

So I went to sleep at 11pm and woke up at 2 am and I've spent the past 2 hours talking on these forums.

 

I think I need help.

[Sifr]

Spoiler

Honestly he seemed perfectly capable of controlling the Anchor and keeping it from killing you, was he not powerful enough to permanently prevent it from killing you?  And it was mentioned a few times that the Anchor was permanent and couldn't be removed but hey it seems cutting off the hand was good enough?  

 

Spoiler

From what it sounded like, he's only able to hold it back temporarily.

 

But the Anchor being permanent is based on information we're told during Corypheus' failed attempt to extract it from us, which isn't exactly all that reliable considering that he believed it was possible to remove it in the first place. I've always reckoned that Corypheus really has absolutely no real clue about how the Anchor or Orb truly work or the extent of what it can do, so removing it could have been possible, just extremely difficult?

 

That we had to lose the hand anyway, could be due to Solas not having the means to remove it (since both the Orb and most Elvhen tech has been lost), especially not in the time we have left before the Mark consumes us and even with him holding it's effects back temporarily?

[Eurowande]

ok dumb question how to make spoiler tags?

 

 

[midnight tea]

Spoiler

 

Honestly he seemed perfectly capable of controlling the Anchor and keeping it from killing you, was he not powerful enough to permanently prevent it from killing you?  And it was mentioned a few times that the Anchor was permanent and couldn't be removed but hey it seems cutting off the hand was good enough?  

 

 

Spoiler

Um, no - he was only able to contain it for a moment. He does say that they're running out of time, and right after that, the Anchor seems to be going all wrong again.

 

Also, removing the hand may just be a temporary solution. I'd say his dialogue prior to removal is kind of ambiguous. I mean, we don't really know HOW Anchor was attached to Inquisitor - was the connection just physical? Or is Anchor part of Inky's soul?

 

It's possible that Solas just 'incapacitated' Inquisitor, in a sense that removing the hand would make Inquisitor THINK that nothing's left, and thus the Anchor's dormant, rather than removed... Really, at this point it's rather hard to tell and I probably shouldn't speculate about this any further, considering we won't be getting any answers anytime soon...

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I am a Twitter newbie and I tweeted this to Patrick Weekes.

 

Spoiler

https://twitter.com/...476445743673345

 

Weekes senpai noticed it ! Better yet, Weekes senpai liked it ! He didn't respond to it so could that mean anything ?

[Elessara]

So for once a non-spoiler.

 

What do people think of the Trials?  I haven't tried any yet.  

[Elessara]

Spoiler

Um, no - he was only able to contain it for a moment. He does say that they're running out of time, and right after that, the Anchor seems to be going all wrong again.

 

Also, removing the hand may just be a temporary solution. I'd say his dialogue prior to removal is kind of ambiguous. I mean, we don't really know HOW Anchor was attached to Inquisitor - was the connection just physical? Or is Anchor part of Inky's soul?

 

It's possible that Solas just 'incapacitated' Inquisitor, in a sense that removing the hand would make Inquisitor THINK that nothing's left, and thus the Anchor's dormant, rather than removed... Really, at this point it's rather hard to tell and I probably shouldn't speculate about this any further, considering we won't be getting any answers anytime soon...

 

Spoiler

 

Yeah, it's 4:30 am here and I've had like 3 hours of sleep.  Thinking not strong point right now.  Also not sure why I put this in spoiler tags.

 

[midnight tea]

Spoiler

 

So, kinda deja vu here but ... now Solas has to find another way into the Fade, right?  Wonder what he'll try.  And why he needs an army to do it.  I mean, he has spies, agents, forces ... but for what?  His plan is to enter the Fade and tear it down from within.  

 

Spoiler

If it was that simple, wouldn't he just work with Cory? I think there's more to this story than we're yet to find, which likely includes various other enemies Solas has. He even tells Inky at one point that he respects her being so thoughtful, therefore he WON'T reveal everything to her.

 

Also - I remember seeing paintings in the ancient elvhen library that appear to suggest what I've suspected all along - there's likely a specific time Solas can achieve what he wants, which are likely related to the position of celestial bodies on the sky (ECLIPSE!!!)

[Elessara]

Spoiler

If it was that simple, wouldn't he just work with Cory? I think there's more to this story than we're yet to find, which likely includes various other enemies Solas has. He even tells Inky at one point that he respects her being so thoughtful, therefore he WON'T reveal everything to her.

 

Also - I remember seeing paintings in the ancient elvhen library that appear to suggest what I've suspected all along - there's likely a specific time Solas can achieve what he wants, which are likely related to the position of celestial bodies on the sky (ECLIPSE!!!)

 

 

Spoiler

 

Yeah I got that line at one point too.  About the thoughtfulness.  I just want to know NAO.  I should probably also go back to sleep.

 

[S.W.]

trespasser DLC spoilers! warning.

Spoiler

 
What I don't particularly understand is, ok he created the Veil to save the elves from the slavery of false gods and the Evanuris seemed bent on destroying the world anyway with their petty power struggles and then they went too far and killed Mythal.  So now he's going to remove the Veil and release them and what's changed?  Nothing.  The Evanuris are still really powerful and probably still petty and view themselves as gods.  How does this help?
 

 
^^ this.
 

Spoiler

Part of me wonders whether it's just perspective. Having woken up and found the world in a nightmare-like condition, I think he romanticises the past too much. Unless he puts new, more egalitarian power structures in place, unless he makes a conscious, and collective, effort to govern better, there's nothing to stop the world being crushed by the Evanuris.

I would quite like to see a conversation from the Dread Wolf as depicted in his sanctury, before the fall, liberating slaves and encouraging people to fight for their freedom, to choose their own fate, and the Solas we know at the moment. Would his past self be disgusted at this turn of events and what it's made of him? (I bloody well hope so).

 

Spoiler

You've got a point there, but it just feels so wrong to consider everything Solas being done by some new person. And it's not like that stopped people from picking up Mass Effect with the second or even last game. But... I don't know. Waiting for even more answers is going to be a pain.

Spoiler

I know. It's why I had trouble with my Quizzy at different points in the game, particularly re: meeting Morrigan, because it felt like it was much more meaningful to have a different character - in that case, the warden - there instead. It felt like I was intruding because, to the player, Morrigan is more than what she is to the Inquisitor - an acquaintance.

If they switched protagonists at this point, we'd lose what made Trespasser so great - a personal connection to the villain.

[Sifr]

Incidentally, for Doctor Who fans;

 

Spoiler

Anyone else get a major "Silence in the Library" vibe during that section when we were in the Library within the Crossroads? I was thinking of that episode from the moment the spirit archivists began creepily replaying the final moments of the people trapped inside when the Veil came down.

[Renmiri1]

PW is a fan of Dr Who, particularly River and #10

[Ardent Blossom]

 

Alright, so now that some time has passed, I can finally gather my thoughts and form a coherent (possibly XD) opinion. Fairly long rant incoming. All said is purely imo, feel free to disagree.

 

Spoiler

It began yesterday, when I was discussing Trespasser with my friend (also a Solasmancer, but a very... jaded one), and she was like: "Why is this romance even in the game?"  And this got me thinking. I know Weekes said that it's to make Solas's story sadder and to show that there is more to him than being mysterious and vaguely villainous, but apart from that?

 

It's point-less.

 

Remember all these talks about romance having great impact on Solas? Showing him that modern Thedas and its people are not all that bad? Well, guess what? No. He's still the same, romance or no, and still very much planning to destroy the (current) world because he thinks that his idea of what it should be is better. Could be writers playing with the "love redeems everyone and their dog" trope, but damn, it feels like his romance!character development is vasted on his main plot. He's just a bit sadder about what he does. 

 

And the whole Solavellan relationship gets no real resolution AGAIN. I've been waiting for the DLC to give me some closure, and now I'll have to wait for a couple of years to get it. If they ever bother with this, that is.

 

Solas becoming a villain - and yes, I DO consider him a villain now, even if he's sympathetic - does not surprise me. What (potentionally) bothers me is the fact that it's possible we'll not be able to face him with our Inquisitors anymore, if they decide to go with another MC for the next game. And since it looks like Inky's story is over... no proper Solavellan conclusion (at least from Lav's POV) and a possibility that we'll have to fight him with another random MC who doesn't know him half as well as Inky does? They'll have to put a lot of work into it for it to work, and even so, for me it'd probably just feel... lame.

 

All in all, now it feels painfully apparent that this romance was thrown in at the last minute "for shits and giggles". As much as I love it - it's masterfully written, really - I wish BW would not make such nowhere-going romances anymore. Thain romance in ME3 *was* sad, but it was hard not to guess what's coming, and it *had* a conclusion. Heck, even Jacob's romance had a conclusion, though not a pleasant one. This here lures you in, hits you over your head and then... is left hanging in the air.

 

...this said, it was nice while it lasted. One of the best romances I've ever played. Which makes all this unfinished-ness and pointlessness even sadder.

 

Spoiler

I don't really consider myself a jaded Solasmancer--disillusioned maybe--but I agree with all this except the villain part (I still have hope for him). Bioware likes to doom and neglect the really serious romance options. Thane is a perfect example. I wish they'd write a soulful romanceable character like Thane or Solas whose story didn't end in heartbreak and or death. Bioware game romances help the player feel connected to the game world, as if their character has some personal stake in the outcome of the chaos. When Bioware killed Thane so early in ME3 with so little content I gave up on that playthrough went renegade and let anyone die that could die. My Shep just didn't care. My Garrus playthrough was quite enjoyable even with the blue, green or red ending. The Thane one though...it sucked. The Solas romance has been the best romance I've played too, probably because he reminds me so much of my husband.  I really don't care to explore any of the other romance options in this game, at least not with a female inquisitor. How could any of them remotely compare? And, THAT is pointless, sad, and maybe a little crazy.

[Janic99]

Solavellan song


 

I'm holdin' on your rope,
Got me ten feet off the ground.
And I'm hearin' what you say,
But I just can't make a sound.
You tell me that you need me,
Then you go and cut me down.
But wait.
You tell me that you're sorry,
Didn't think I'd turn around.
And say.

That it's too late to apologize.
It's too late.
I said it's too late to apologize.
It's too late.
Too late, oh uh

I'd take another chance,
Take a fall, take a shot for you.
I need you like a heart needs a beat,
But it's nothin' new, yeah!
I loved you with a fire red,
Now it's turnin' blue.
And you say.
Sorry, like an angel
Heaven let me think was you.
But I'm afraid.

It's too late to apologize.
It's too late.
I said it's too late to apologize.
It's too late.
Whoa!

It's too late to apologize.
It's too late.
I said it's too late to apologize.
It's too late.

I said it's too late to apologize, yeah!
I said it's too late to apologize, yeah!
I'm holdin' on your rope,
Got me ten feet off the ground.

[Aviena]

Finished trespasser today, JUST in time to head to class and be terribly distracted the whole time.

 

Spoiler

Everyone who's posted before me has articulated my feelings much more eloquently than I could, but I can't NOT comment. I'm sure a lot of us here are a bit upset about our favourite elven apostate wanting to murder everybody - and all I can think about is how clever it was of Bioware to put In Hushed Whispers into the game for us. It's a pity, really, that not everybody plays it. 

 

We basically get a hint of what things might have been like for Solas after he woke up. The landscape is fundamentally changed, creepy and otherworldly. The people we knew are basically gone - reduced to traumatised shells of their former selves, altered irrevocably by dangerous magic. They're not living, not really - just breathing until the world is done with them. We don't hesitate to let those shells of our companions die in order to fix things.

 

The difference is that WE are able to go back. It's not so simple for poor Solas. I think on some level he knows that even if he does tear down the Veil, the world will never go back to the way it was.

 

I'm going to go find that song from the Solas scene on youtube now and continue to be sad.   

 

PS:

 

Spoiler

I really doubt Bioware will let us keep our protagonist. I really hope that our choices (ie: romance and choosing the "we'll change Solas' mind!" option) have a positive outcome on Solas' story arc though.