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[midnight tea]

Anyway...

 

Spoiler

Anyone finds it interesting that Lavellans - either male or female, romanced or not - find themselves in a unique situation? While most elves seem to be lured from the world by a hazy promises of new Fen'Harel's rebellion (although who knows, maybe they're being played by forces we yet don't know), Inquisitor Lavellan may find himself/herself one of very few that are on the other side of the barricade...

[chaezoiv]

What is kind of bugging me:

 

Spoiler

At the very beginning back in Haven, at your first confrontation with cory, doesn't he say something like "the mark is ruined" and taking it back/destroying it would also kill the Inquisitor? Maybe that just happens if trying to "pass it over". Still for me that makes it a little cheap that it just goes away when the hand was cut of (if it did). For me it made more sense that it was now connected to more than just the hand, especially since years have passed. (Also sorry if I'm not making sense, I have literally not slept at all since I started playing last night

[AslinnMoonbreeze]

If anyone is interested, I wrote a much longer post about how I feel about the Trespasser/Solas on Tumblr (since it is easier and I hide it behind a "read more" so it doesn't spoil stuff for people). Basically, there are people who are heartbroken (again). I am not. I am too excited about the possibilities with the story. I also think people are even more angry at Solas, which is justified. But I explain why he is also justified and I can see it from his point of view. So...Give it a read and let me know what you think!

http://aslinncosplay...tuff-ahead-also

[drosophila]

Spoiler

As will I. I also figured that Bull would be more likely to use or betray you if you sided with the Qun, but I have absolutely no wish to crow about it with glee. My human Quizzy will be majorly pissed with him, especially as she can count off each of his great ideas that have turned into utter, world changing disasters. And all my Quizzies, if it comes down to a Solas or the World choice, will choose the world every time. I just don't want to have to argue the nuance behind his actions and motivations with people who are all "Solas was always evil, I hate elves, they all deserved to be wiped out" mentality. It's too exhausting. People in this thread tend to debate rather than argue.

 

Spoiler

Bull's betrayal: It really didn't hit me very hard, I saw it coming from the beginning of the DLC since he was the only one companion who had no cutscene and no dialogue options. I knew he would betray Inq eventually. 

 

But I really liked Cole saying after he was dead how he perceived no hurt in him. Once Bull chose the Qun, he was loyal to the Qun and simply did the job. Strangely, I get that.

 

In a funny coincidence, I had no time to craft and equip until right before the DLC, and I hadn't spent any time building Bull on that particular PT. I thought for a moment that I could possibly craft and build him, but I felt lazy and left him with the shoddy weapons and armor he'd been wearing since the Winter Palace. It ended up being the right choice He went down almost instantaneously.

[Eurowande]

thinking about next game

Spoiler

well my current Lavellan have a good heart and she will try to change Solas mind, but ill make one after her that will be like - Lets burn it all Solas, if i cant change your mind then ill help you IF we get this option later, I will make her just in case , cuz as much as i always play a nice char and try to save everyone , im now ready to burn the world and walk on its ashes as long as Solas walk beside me. I ask again what have you done to me bioware you turned me from person who always do whats right , to person who is ready to destroy the world just so she can be with her love.

and yes i know that we wont play lavellan in next game but i think that may be we can decide her fate somehow.

[Elessara]

Spoiler

As will I. I also figured that Bull would be more likely to use or betray you if you sided with the Qun, but I have absolutely no wish to crow about it with glee. My human Quizzy will be majorly pissed with him, especially as she can count off each of his great ideas that have turned into utter, world changing disasters. And all my Quizzies, if it comes down to a Solas or the World choice, will choose the world every time. I just don't want to have to argue the nuance behind his actions and motivations with people who are all "Solas was always evil, I hate elves, they all deserved to be wiped out" mentality. It's too exhausting. People in this thread tend to debate rather than argue.

 

Spoiler

 

I honestly hadn't thought what would happen with Bull if he stayed with the Qun as I tend to make him Tal Vashoth but I am not surprised that he betrays the Inquisitor if he stays with the Qun.  It makes sense and gives the choice meaning.

 

So far Solas has had 2 disastrous decisions .. yeah not the best track record.  Although I wonder why creating the Veil didn't destroy the world i.e. elves still lived, dwarves apparently were around before and after .. when did humans come into the picture?  I think maybe afterwards?  My point being the world was changed but while the elvhen empire collapsed the elvhen people endured although they were different.

 

I think one of my biggest annoyances is that the Well, which looked like a huge choice, pretty much boiled down to hey do I have to fight these additional guys or not?  Bleh.

 

[Mims]

What is kind of bugging me:

 

Spoiler

At the very beginning back in Haven, at your first confrontation with cory, doesn't he say something like "the mark is ruined" and taking it back/destroying it would also kill the Inquisitor? Maybe that just happens if trying to "pass it over". Still for me that makes it a little cheap that it just goes away when the hand was cut of (if it did). For me it made more sense that it was now connected to more than just the hand, especially since years have passed. (Also sorry if I'm not making sense, I have literally not slept at all since I started playing last night

 

Spoiler

I'd say Corypheus probably didn't know how to remove the charge without killing you. Solas created the device, so he probably has a bit more knowledge as far as removing it. 

[LliiraAnna]

Spoiler

I have a very "understand, forgive and try to talk things through" mindset, and it carries over to my characters. I've never been able to play as someone even remotely evil So my Lav is totally going to try and talk Solas out of his plans, both for the worlds and his own sake.

 

I really hope DA4 will let us do this. Confront Solas with our Inky, I mean. Even if we'll play with another PC for the rest of the game. And that it won't force us to kill him.

 

RE: Solas and vilification. I actually don't see him as "evil", just... blinded? Misguided? When I call him a "villain", I mean that he takes on a largely antagonistic role from this point on. Also, I kind of enjoy the fact that his "dark side" is finally out now - it adds complexity to his character, if nothing else. And I LOVE complex, layered characters.

[Sable Rhapsody]

What is kind of bugging me:

 

Spoiler

At the very beginning back in Haven, at your first confrontation with cory, doesn't he say something like "the mark is ruined" and taking it back/destroying it would also kill the Inquisitor? Maybe that just happens if trying to "pass it over". Still for me that makes it a little cheap that it just goes away when the hand was cut of (if it did). For me it made more sense that it was now connected to more than just the hand, especially since years have passed. (Also sorry if I'm not making sense, I have literally not slept at all since I started playing last night

 

Spoiler

It may be that as the originator of the mark's magic, Solas can manipulate it in ways that Corypheus could not.  I would argue that in terms of raw power, Trespasser!Solas easily outstrips Corypheus.  Cory's also not particularly thoughtful or creative; once it became clear that he could neither longer possess the Anchor nor use quizzy, he probably just wanted him/her dead and out of the way.

[drosophila]

Spoiler

It may be that as the originator of the mark's magic, Solas can manipulate it in ways that Corypheus could not.  I would argue that in terms of raw power, Trespasser!Solas easily outstrips Corypheus.  Cory's also not particularly thoughtful or creative; once it became clear that he could neither longer possess the Anchor nor use quizzy, he probably just wanted him/her dead and out of the way.

 

Spoiler

 

I would add to that that we found out that Solas had planned out to acquire the Anchor himself and use it, so he must have been very familiar with its design. In addition, he had plenty of time to study the Anchor while being part of the Inquisition, and he must've been looking for ways to remove it the whole time. 

 

[midnight tea]

Spoiler

I think one of my biggest annoyances is that the Well, which looked like a huge choice, pretty much boiled down to hey do I have to fight these additional guys or not?  Bleh.

 

Spoiler

... I think they're saving the Well for later. It's too big of a choice to be unused. I suppose they'll use it whenever they'll re-introduce Morrigan, and we're going to find out how Flemeth really factors into all this.

 

My prediction? She wants this world to survive was well. She may do something that will change the world and let her have her vengeance, but I think she may be the one god who actually moved on, and may think that the previous world had it's chance - now it's time for this one to be, at best, somewhat re-balanced and let thrive.

 

This may happen especially, I think, in an OGB world-state, where she tests Morrigan (Morrigan says so herself after they emerge from the Fade, though she's not sure she passed) and her daughter, as well as supposed chosen 'inheritor' proves that she's ready to do everything for her son... You think she wouldn't fight for his survival???

 

I'm pretty sure she'd unleash her Mythal-y motherly love for Kieran, who has changed her to a point that she barely recognizes herself anymore (at least she says so in Skyhold).

[The Oracle]

Spoiler

Bull's betrayal: It really didn't hit me very hard, I saw it coming from the beginning of the DLC since he was the only one companion who had no cutscene and no dialogue options. I knew he would betray Inq eventually. 

 

But I really liked Cole saying after he was dead how he perceived no hurt in him. Once Bull chose the Qun, he was loyal to the Qun and simply did the job. Strangely, I get that.

 

In a funny coincidence, I had no time to craft and equip until right before the DLC, and I hadn't spent any time building Bull on that particular PT. I thought for a moment that I could possibly craft and build him, but I felt lazy and left him with the shoddy weapons and armor he'd been wearing since the Winter Palace. It ended up being the right choice He went down almost instantaneously.

 

Spoiler

Well, considering that even with full high spec crafted, 5 guard on hit armour and weapons, my loyal Bull kept on getting one-shot by friggin everything I don't think it would have made much of a difference.

 

Oh, and can I also just randomly say that Solas looked very, very nice in that shiny armour he was wearing. I think even Viv  would have found something fetching in his spangly new gear.

[Solas]

Spoiler

Flemeth can't get vengeance on the ones that killed her unless he lets them out!

[MoonDrummer]

Spoiler

Flemeth can't get vengeance on the ones that killed her unless he lets them out!

Spoiler

Surely an eternity of torment is vengeance enough, killing them now would seem like a mercy.

[chaezoiv]

Spoiler

It may be that as the originator of the mark's magic, Solas can manipulate it in ways that Corypheus could not.  I would argue that in terms of raw power, Trespasser!Solas easily outstrips Corypheus.  Cory's also not particularly thoughtful or creative; once it became clear that he could neither longer possess the Anchor nor use quizzy, he probably just wanted him/her dead and out of the way.

Spoiler

Yeah, this does make sense now I feel a bit stupid since Solas also kept you alive to begin with. Still, I feel like such powerful magic should have been connected to more than the hand. Then again I guess I could be a little butthurt too because I found the mark so awesome

[The Oracle]

Spoiler

... I think they're saving the Well for later. It's too big of a choice to be unused. I suppose they'll use it whenever they'll re-introduce Morrigan, and we're going to find out how Flemeth really factors into all this.

 

My prediction? She wants this world to survive was well. She may do something that will change the world and let her have her vengeance, but I think she may be the one god who actually moved on, and may think that the previous world had it's chance - now it's time for this one to be, at best, somewhat re-balanced and let thrive.

 

This may happen especially, I think, in an OGB world-state, where she tests Morrigan (Morrigan says so herself after they emerge from the Fade, though she's not sure she passed) and her daughter, as well as supposed chosen 'inheritor' proves that she's ready to do everything for her son... You think she wouldn't fight for his survival???

 

I'm pretty sure she'd unleash her Mythal-y motherly love for Kieran, who has changed her to a point that she barely recognizes herself anymore (at least she says so in Skyhold).

Spoiler

Though, on my recent playthrough when we were arguing about who should drink from the Well, my Lavellan asked about Kieran and what would happen to him if the Well did have majorly bad consequences and she was just like "Ah, he's a tough kid, he'll be fine" and all I could think was,  Have you talked to your son ever? He sounds about 6 years old. He wouldn't be able to tie his shoelaces never mind finding a place to stay, away from mage hunters or off of the streets. Friggin hell Morrigan, think ahead a little bit!"

 

[drosophila]

My Thoughts on the DLC - Now that I've had coffee

 

Spoiler

 

Solas is a fantastic character. I am so happy Bioware did not pull any punches. He is gross. He makes me uncomfortable. And he is clearly delusional.  And he's even worse than I had hoped.  And I hitched my Lavallan's cart to the crazy train because the feels. Nothing he says justifies even a fraction of what he did or what he intends to do but despite all of that he remains incredibly depressing.  The context of why he thinks that way - and I think he is genuine in what he says- makes sense in the grand scheme of things.  Am I sort of mad that they essentially forced canon that if you go back with him - you were hung up? You betcha.  But that's the beauty of this. There is no in-between with him. It's everything turned up to 11. Your feelings. His feelings. His reactions to everything.  It's going to be a mess. And I'm excited.   

 

Spoiler

I could get behind that. Sigh... I am surprised to find myself so alone in my reaction to his plans, compared to other thread regulars. I feel like I'm seriously "in need of re-education" as the vidassala put it, and I'm trying to understand, but his goals and where the story is going still make me a bit uncomfortable. 

 

I wish there was something positive in his plan that I could cling to, other than he just feels really bad about it. I still can't see the logic or moral justification of righting the destruction of an entire race by destroying several more races. He probably doesn't either. He could've at least been trying to bring back some golden age, but from what we learn, Elvhenan was far from a happy place for the majority of its residents before he created the Veil. 

 

But on the positive side, I really like how they handled the romance. I was worried that we were going to get a godlike mask of stoicism, but he made it blatantly clear he cares, he was vulnerable in his affection, and the interactions gave the feelings of closure. Also this was the most romantic magical amputation scene I've ever seen... Well, it's the only one I've ever seen, but still. They also left it fairly open-ended, which I think has always been the best option for his romance. For me, pantheon sex parties are still on the table for the future. 

 

[neonmoth]

Spoiler

This is pretty meta / me-specific but: [not specifically in response to anything you said don't worry your post just got my gears turning in my head!]

 

I'm doubtless influenced by the kind of Inquisitor I play, I know - what he intends to do only seems so terrible because we're (well our characters and the world we're invested in) on this side of it.

 

Anti-tyrant, breaking chains, giving wisdom, martyrdom, saving the People - he talks and is 'talked up' by game lore snippets/companion dialogue etc to be This, and undeniably they're very prominent, strong parts of his character and arc. He definitely will have disliked, resented and likely even tried to combat or at least mitigate the negative aspects of the rule of the Evanuris while Mythal still lived imo,  but he didn't seal them away or lead a rebellion against corrupt godkings because he's an avatar of freedom or a savior. What was it that motivated him in overthrowing and sealing them away in the end? The thing that pushed him over the edge to action? They killed his close friend, a friend who was a shining example, to him, of Goodness in the world. That's it. At the deepest level, it was personal rather than a freedom campaign. It became the antityrant / free slaves deal as he made moves against them. He was a man grieving and enraged at the horrific act of his old friend's likely gruesome for-no-good reason murder. She wasn't even removed because she was a despot for some greater good, they took her down because they were jealous, power-hungry, pretenders to her 'throne' [place] in the 'pantheon'. In his eyes they were monsters for this and to him these killers had to be severely punished. I think many people in his position would feel the same way about the people who murdered their friend. So, prideful and in his wrath he acted.

 

My Inquisitor would absolutely act with such swift and terrible vengeance in fury over the bloody unjust murder of a close friend - say her Keeper, or Cassandra, or Cole. She'd use whatever power she had at her disposal - even if it was world-shaping, like the Mark - to put in place a severe and horrific punishment for the people guilty of such a close-to-home act, likely without care for what impact it might have on others or the world around her.

 

And then, what he plans to do - only seems messed up cause we're on this side. In his shoes, again my Inquisitor would do absolutely anything, no matter the cost, to protect and save her own people. He says it himself - wouldn't you do the same thing for your own people? The same thing reflected in the duality of the Dread Wolf and Inquisitor fear+hope titles which he also notes. To him it only happened yesterday - imagine you wake up one day and your hometown is destroyed, and there's a different town in it's place, but you could bring back everything you ever loved and knew at the push of a button. It's a sick choice, genocide of one group or the other, but when it's them versus your own? The fact that your town is long dead and forgotten in history is a truth for people in the new town but that isn't the fabric of reality for you. In modern Thedas he wakes up and is completely dissociated, it's plainly stated that it's not real to him, he's underwater talking to people-shaped figures through foggy glass. They're spectres of almost-people, for most of his time there. That's not malicious, it's rooted in the psychological effects of what the **** bewildering world he woke up to. He took up a mantle - freedombringer, iconoclast - and cloaked himself in it til he breathed it, in part for grief, in part for guilt, in part because of instinctive dislike of what the Evanuris were, and to an extent these are layers he keeps between him and the reality of his actions and waking world that he now lives in. Add to this his consuming guilt at what he now thinks is a mistake. And then he notes he takes no pleasure in what he's doing, that he wants the other half to be comfortable in the final days, etc. & how his story - a Not-God who set out to do a thing and was raised to godlike status later for it despite himself - is plainly a foil for the rise of the Herald in Andrastian faith. He's not a monster, he's just the man on the other side of the coin. He's her reflection in a mirror.

I so want to like this but this thread and it's post-dlc musings took all of my likes*.

 

Spoiler

My final conversation with Solas happened around 4am but still the impression I got was very much in line with what you posit in here. The journey my Inquisitor took through the crossroads and the painful story she has uncovered whilst doing so made me interpret Solas as a tragic character, whose intended actions are hard to comprehend, yet his inaction has much worse (to him) outcome. By choosing not to follow his plan he commits genocide on his own people. Hell, if he extended the whole "my people" to include living elves, both city and Dalish, one of my Lavellans would have a very hard time opposing him. Of course there is also the case of unknown consequences of tampering with the veil but surely they would be tempted.

 

All in all Solas was an awesome character from the get go but I struggled to place him in the greater scheme of things after the base game epilogue. After this dlc I seriously love his character, completely regardless of what the future will bring. If my next protagonist (be it Quizzy or some complete newbie) has to kill him in order to save the world, then it will be done. Some may do it with a satisfaction depending on who I roll. And this dlc totally was the Wolf Hunt, just with a twist.

 

Finally, because of this absolutely brilliant decision of making a (most likely) future antagonist a follower and LI in the prequel, I tip my hat to DA team. And in all this, seeing my Lavellan go through so much and develop into this amazing creature. I her so much. Holy sh!t this game feels so different with simple decision who your protagonist romances.

 

Btw you are all amazing bunch with your lore knowledge and great dissecting skills, pity I struggle so much with keeping up, even in lurking department.

Ironically, the fact that Solas triggers polarizing opinions, now even more than ever, might be the best thing to keep this thread going strong into DA4.

 

*Edit: got my likes back after producing this small wall of text lol

[NightSymphony]

One art to share... I decided to actually show the picture since it's just one art and it would get lost in this busy busy thread. It actually took me two hours to catch up...that hasn't happened in months.

 

http://neekadya.devi...l-god-559244594

[Sable Rhapsody]

Spoiler

Yeah, this does make sense now I feel a bit stupid since Solas also kept you alive to begin with. Still, I feel like such powerful magic should have been connected to more than the hand. Then again I guess I could be a little butthurt too because I found the mark so awesome

Spoiler

I really liked the mark too. And while I thought the escalation from minor annoyance to life-threatening was a bit rushed, I really liked the overloading focus bar as a game play mechanic, turning something beneficial into a time bomb.

[drosophila]

Spoiler

I really liked the mark too. And while I thought the escalation from minor annoyance to life-threatening was a bit rushed, I really liked the overloading focus bar as a game play mechanic, turning something beneficial into a time bomb.

 

Spoiler

For what they had to work with, I think they did OK with showing the gradual regression of the mark. We would get updates on it throughout the DLC. The problem is the events of the DLC span a relatively short time period, so they can't really convey a realistically slow change.

 

I just headcanon that the mark has been bothering the Inq for a while but they ignored it, and these are the very final stages of it getting worse, where it begins to get worse exponentially fast. There are diseases like this IRL so it makes some sense. 

[Moirin]

Spoiler

Not really - it would ruin a pretty intense and poignant scene if they've decided to do that. I'm pretty happy they actually didn't give in to some fans' demands and only went as far as implied that they slept together during Solas' time in Inquisition in one of dialogue options. It's a pretty elegant solution. Kudos, Bioware!

 

Spoiler

This was a dialogue option in trespasser? Which one was it?

 

Or are you taking about the one before the break-up?