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[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[LliiraAnna]

Spoiler

I dunno.  That smacks of Act 3 Anders and seems awfully irresponsible to me.  If you're going to reshape the world, at least have the courtesy to help it through the aftermath.  I think it's more that he thinks restoring the elvhen world is his top priority, and he can worry about everything else either as it comes, or later.  

 

Seriously, how did this guy stop the Evanuris in the first place?  He's so easily blinded to other opportunities and possibilities by his primary goal.

Spoiler

It's just one of the possibilities. My first phrase was It may be more that he just doesn't care about them for the moment, hoping that they either get killed off (as he hoped will happen with Cory) or that he'll somehow deal with them later? which is exactly "I'll worry about it later"

[Illyria]

 

Just some thoughts on Solas that I felt like writing down. Sorry if I'm a bit off-topic, there are so many things on my mind after the DLC

Spoiler

So I've seen people saying that "Solas wants to be stopped", and it got me thinking. IRL, many depressed people distance themselves from the world, but at the same time, they *want* someone to find and comfort them. Maybe it's kind of the same for Solas - he wants someone to prove him wrong, to come and show him that he doesn't need to go through with his plans.

 

It's a way to get attention.

 

Because he feels like he doesn't belong in this age. It's alien to him, and it didn't exactly treat him with much kindness (aside of possibly the Inquisition?). So, yeah, he wants to make amends, but underneath it can be sort of a selfish wish to return to the times where he felt like he *belonged*. Where there were *his* people, and not the Dalish who distrust him and look down on him and are generally pale shadows of what they used to be.

 

Tbh, if he'll be an antagonist in DA4, I hope we'll be able to talk him down with our Inquisitors. Because if a new MC will succeed where even a Lav who romanced him failed (so far), it'll be... weird x)

 

Tl:dr: Solas is really tragically messed up and I hope we'll get a possibility to make it at least a little bit better Yeah, I know, I'm an idealist and I'm likely in for a lot of disappointment, but HOPE DIES LAST. Or, rather, HOPE NEVER DIES.

 

 

Spoiler

Oh gosh. Now I just want to give him comuppance even more

 

@Illyria

 

Spoiler

I love your description of Solas's view of things as an academic problem. I think that's spot on.

 

Spoiler

Thanks, but I'm pretty sure I was just quoting Leliana. If I wasn't and I actually said something smart then: go me!

 

Spoiler

Wow, people who romanced Bull and kept him loyal to the Qun really got the short end of the stick.

 

Spoiler

I feel like we should extend our blanket fort.

 

Spoiler

Huh. This is probably the best way to consider the parallels between the two situations, especially considering what Leliana says to Dorian. Which does make you wonder... Solas says in the dark future that the world is an abomination and should never be allowed to come to pass. So... does he learn in that dark future that his plan was bad, or does present-day Solas have better/different plans to remove the Veil that won't make things into a dark apocalypse? Potentially burning in chaos maybe, but not darkbad in quite that way. Interesting thought.

 

Spoiler

There's two ways of reading that scene:

First, like you said, future!Solas has left his old plans behind. But if that was the case, then wouldn't he warn Inky what presant!Solas was up to?

Second: the world Cornflakes has created is a mockery of the world that he wanted to create. The veil is torn, not removed, spirits are being drawn into our world and turning into demons, red lyrium is corrupting everything it touches and the entire place is a hellscape. It WORSE than the future he first created.

 

After finishing Trespasser:

 

 

Someone needs to update Solas o'clock to this.

 

Spoiler

 

What is that from?  Is that the hell rollercoaster that was made for the theme park game?  The one that took nearly a year and had an exit that led back to the start?

 

Oh there's also this, which could potentially be HUGE:

 

Spoiler

Cole says "he did not want a body, but she asked him to come. He left a scar when he burned her off his face"

I *think* this is about Mythal and Solas. She called him into physical being from the fade (kinda makes sense with the mother goddess thing) and he had her vallaslin originally. He later "burned" it off his face, leaving him with his lovely forehead scar. The scar part also gives me some feels. It sounds like he left it on purpose. 

 

It's huge because it essentially tells us how physical beings came to be. They were fade spirits (or something?) who willed themselves into the world, sometimes at the behest of others.

 

Could be way off base here! Thoughts?

 

 

Spoiler

oooooh, I think you may be onto something.

 

Someone needs to summon Madrar.  She needs to see this.

 

@Augeia

 

Spoiler

1. Either he or someone else on his orders killed Fellasan.  And yes it is unnerving.  Again - that was the intent

2. YAY lone wolf!!

3. No. Not Shartan.  But he did meet with Koslun in the desert before he slept.  He essentially provided Koslun the ideology that started the Qun

4. The veil thing. NOPE.

5.  Yup - everybody was just mage.

 

Is there a codex entry or dialouge on 3?  Because if there is then I missed it completely.

 

@Avejajed

 

Spoiler

No he says - everybody is going to die.  He says "you" the inquisitor is going to die.  Even if there is nuance - I think the "most people are going to die" doesn't really make it better.  It's the equivalent of everyone dying out to biological warfare or an atomic bomb.  Both are awful. Both suck.

 

Spoiler

I have made this thread a sanctum of optimism and feels. Why do you threatern it?

 

*waves tiny TO flag*

 

but I think you may be right

[Moondreamer01]

Spoiler

Dwarves clearly existed prior to that point. In fact, their records pre-date Elvhen history and the founding of Arlathan. The primeval thaig is almost 10,000 years old. I don't think Solas means to kill everyone EXCEPT for elves. I think what he hopes to do is restore the world that was. Including the Dwarven empire below.

 

What Solas aims to do is create a rift/ breach so massive the veil would collapse and in that moment utilize time magic to run back time. That's why you and those in your world weren't seen as "real" to him. You were a mistake - a point in time he could rewind and would never happen. A dream. A figment. That's why we were forced to see time magic TWICE in game. Once at Redcliffe, and just to make sure Solas was aware that time magic was possible, again at that one Tevinter temple with Servis. Time magic is also ONLY possible when the veil is massively damaged.

 

Spoiler

Super interesting. I never even thought this could be his ultimate plan. Collapsing the veil, yes, but returning to his past? That... actually makes it better in my mind. Is it truly genocide if the end result is him returning to the past? Bittersweet since in the new timeline the Inquisitor would never exist, but not as bad as causing a cataclismic event and letting the chip fall where they might for the survivors. But then, you get into time travel, multiverses, paradoxes and my mind starts to hurt...

[drosophila]

And I disagree. Somewhat.

 

Spoiler

Solas is obviously being set up for "something", but I think it's a ruse. His plan is really, really bad. He is really, really misguided and delusional. But there are a LOT of forces at work we still know next to nothing about. His plan might be cake. His plan may not even work. And for all we know, his plan may not even work the way he thinks it does and turns out that's exactly what HAS to happen, but there's another way to save the people. I can't possibly begin to guess, but I do know that Solas, misguided he is, isn't evil. He's not that kind of "big bad". He's totally operating where he can't see anything but his goal and he pushes everyone else deep, deep down so his guilt doesn't keep him from it. That's how much he believes in his goal being the right move. He's wrong. He's going off the deep end and he's going to get a lot of people killed. But I think setting him up as "big bad" is really a red-herring.

 

There are so many other factors at play, things we have no concept of yet. I saw 11 Elven Mages that had slaves in a codex- only 8 of which are considered Gods. What about the others? Is that the three we call the Forgotten ones? What's their story? Their plan? What about the last forbidden one? I saw a codex on them too. Not to mention how Titans fit into the whole mess anyway. Is the veil what cut off the dwarves from the Titans? Did Solas **** them over too?? What about the blight and the old gods??? 

 

Again, I'm going off on tangents. I apologize. I get where people maybe are disappointed or feel they've been let down or that he's just been set up, I just don't see it that way. It's way more complicated.

 

Spoiler

No, please don't take this to mean I think he's evil. I absolutely don't. Misguided is exactly what I would call him. Again, I repeat that I separate his personality, which is very complex and makes me sympathize with him deeply from his role, which from the PC point of view is now antagonistic. Unless we get to play ancient elves in DA4, he is trying to destroy our world and we must stop him one way or another. I want very, very badly to be able to save him.

 

Also 100% agree that there's more to the situation that just Solas and what he's trying to do. But that has no bearing on his role. There are other gears in this machine we haven't found, but he by himself is trying to be the gear that triggers the mass explosion machine.

[Avejajed]

Spoiler

I dunno.  That smacks of Act 3 Anders and seems awfully irresponsible to me.  If you're going to reshape the world, at least have the courtesy to help it through the aftermath.  I think it's more that he thinks restoring the elvhen world is his top priority, and he can worry about everything else either as it comes, or later.  

 

Seriously, how did this guy stop the Evanuris in the first place?  He's so easily blinded to other opportunities and possibilities by his primary goal.

 

I think

Spoiler

he has a certain ruthlessness that makes him a formidable opponent. He may prefer to keep death and dismemberment at a minimum, but is perfectly willing and able to make sacrifices that propel his own goals. Someone so intent has the ability to succeed where others fail. But this ruthlessness comes at a high cost in the guilt he carries, guilt for everything. For what he's done, for what he thinks he must do, and that certainly is dangerous, especially when pushed down into the deep corners of one's very soul. I could see how that guilt could eventually lead to corruption. But he's not so far gone yet. 

 

His blindness to other avenues and options is exactly what makes him so dangerous. He is as single-minded as you can get, and he thinks he needs to harden his heart against all other options in order to achieve his goal. The point is, though, that he's not so far gone yet. There's still something inside of him, nagging at the corners of his conscious, somewhere the Inquisitor can reach, if he or she so desires.

[Siha]

It's so cool how this thread only consists of spoiler tags now.

And everybody who can't play at this point isn't only excluded from communication now but will also not have anything left to discuss here once he finally does get to play the expansion. 

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[Avejajed]

Spoiler

Dwarves clearly existed prior to that point. In fact, their records pre-date Elvhen history and the founding of Arlathan. The primeval thaig is almost 10,000 years old. I don't think Solas means to kill everyone EXCEPT for elves. I think what he hopes to do is restore the world that was. Including the Dwarven empire below.

 

What Solas aims to do is create a rift/ breach so massive the veil would collapse and in that moment utilize time magic to run back time. That's why you and those in your world weren't seen as "real" to him. You were a mistake - a point in time he could rewind and would never happen. A dream. A figment. That's why we were forced to see time magic TWICE in game. Once at Redcliffe, and just to make sure Solas was aware that time magic was possible, again at that one Tevinter temple with Servis. Time magic is also ONLY possible when the veil is massively damaged.

 

Okay, so

Spoiler

It would kill everyone by going back in time? He's trying to turn back the clock? I thought he just wanted to take down the veil, let the world descend into chaos, and then slowly rebuild. Did I miss something? Hmmm. I might have been too emotional to understand what he was saying at the end.

[Avejajed]

It's so cool how this thread only consists of spoiler tags now.

And everybody who can't play at this point isn't only excluded from communication now but will also not have anything left to discuss here once he finally does get to play the expansion. 

 

What would you suggest?

[Elessara]

Spoiler

 

Hey, thanks, that's a very interesting perspective, one I can actually see myself adopting. 

 

I guess it all comes down to me being used to seeing things from modern Thedas POV, according to which all he can do is harm. But if I force myself into POV, this would bring restoration and the hope of building a better world. And his plan basically confirms there are ancient elven colonies somewhere, right? Either that, or there's some way to make more elves once the Veil has been lifted. 

 

I guess I would feel much better if we could more of the ancient elven perspective. All we have now is Abelas and a bunch of codex entries. Ancient elves have been painted overly negative: a slave owning society with narcissistic god-mages who war upon each other endlessly. There are those codes entries in the beginning of DLC who talk about regular elven slaves and Solas rescuing them, but codex entries have limited emotional effect on me. If they'd brought in characters other than Solas, whom we could get to know and learn about their suffering, it would be easier to emphatize. Well, here's hoping for DA4!

 

 

Spoiler

 

Ancient elven society went from idealistic utopia (according to the Dalish) to power hungry slavers ruled by god-kings.  And the truth is probably somewhere in between.  Regardless, Solas will never get back what he lost no matter what he does.  Taking down the Veil won't restore Elvhenan.  At this point it may not even restore the elves to what they were.  Undoing something doesn't necessarily means it reverts back to exactly what it was before the change.

 

He really needs to spend more than 4 years in modern Thedas before deciding to end it all.

 

[Moondreamer01]

Wow, okay so...

Spoiler

IT IS DEFINITELY GENOCIDE. And it's not just genocide - he's killing thousands of years of people. And not just of one particular race, of ALL races. All of their art. All of their history. All of their aches, pains, loves, hopes, dreams, creativity, losses... Gone. And its his attitude of "Eh, they're not real. They're just figments. Tranquil. They're not really living anyway," that should TERRIFY and DISGUST YOU. He has compartmentalized Thedas' future to such a degree that YOU. ARE. NOT. REAL.

 

In a way, he sees modern Thedas as a video game. Something he just has to play through to get back to his real life. That's so, so, so not okay. Because unlike a video game? This IS Solas' world. He IS living in it. Modern Thedas IS real. He is just so dissociated from reality he's created plans to become SO powerful he can undo it. Like a spelling mistake.

 

That should terrify you. It's moral dissociation and excuse for mass destruction on such a scale that it is reprehensible.

 

Sure, Corypheus wanted to rule. But Solas wishes to eradicate in order to restore.

 

Spoiler

Well, that would depend. When we went ahead a year in the future, then came back, did we destroy that year, in a way, or didn't we (and yes, I know a year isn't quite long enough to have the kind of huge consequence as a few millenia does, but the principle still stands)? I think a lot of it depends on the internal workings of time travel. One timeline, or several branching ones? Is having never existed the same as killing? On a purely intellectual level, it's an interesting thought exercise. Doesn't mean I'm ok with him trying, and my Lavellan will try to make him see the worth of the present to her last breath, but still interesting. From the way he talks though I'm really not sure time travel enters the equation.

[couslandia]

Spoiler

Bringing back this banter in light of current events, sans commentary...

 

• Dorian: Solas, for what it’s worth, I’m sorry.
• Dorian: The elven city of Arlathan sounds like a magical place, and for my ancestors to have destroyed it…
• Solas: Dorian… hush.
• Solas: Empires rise and fall. Arlathan was no more “innocent” than your own Tevinter in its time.
• Solas: Your nostalgia for the ancient elves, however romanticized, is pointless.
• Solas: If you wish to make amends for past transgressions, free the slaves of all races who live in Tevinter today.
• Dorian: I… don’t know that I can do that.
• Solas: Then how sorry are you?

[Uirebhiril]

Spoiler

 

Ancient elven society went from idealistic utopia (according to the Dalish) to power hungry slavers ruled by god-kings.  And the truth is probably somewhere in between.  Regardless, Solas will never get back what he lost no matter what he does.  Taking down the Veil won't restore Elvhenan.  At this point it may not even restore the elves to what they were.  Undoing something doesn't necessarily means it reverts back to exactly what it was before the change.

 

He really needs to spend more than 4 years in modern Thedas before deciding to end it all.

 

 

Spoiler

That's what I'm wondering about. If he's immortal and spells would take years way back when, what's his rush? Even if he's on some sort of time limit because the alignment of the moon with the left tree on the east coast of the continent will sway and lose a leaf in a particular gust of wind once every so many years, he'd still have time to wait for it to come around again, take time to see what the world really is without the shroud of dissociation being so strong over his eyes. He could live a bit, love and discover what has happened over the years, and not just by dreaming it in the Fade.

 

Unless that's precisely why he is rushing. Living in the world and trying to make a go at making things work well for the elves, or anyone else, would invest him in a time he desperately needs to remain not real because of his past guilts or whatever. That's... interesting to think on.

[Avejajed]

Spoiler

Time travel makes my head hurt.

[AllThatJazz]

 

Spoiler

Bringing back this banter in light of current events, sans commentary...

 

• Dorian: Solas, for what it’s worth, I’m sorry.
• Dorian: The elven city of Arlathan sounds like a magical place, and for my ancestors to have destroyed it…
• Solas: Dorian… hush.
• Solas: Empires rise and fall. Arlathan was no more “innocent” than your own Tevinter in its time.
• Solas: Your nostalgia for the ancient elves, however romanticized, is pointless.
• Solas: If you wish to make amends for past transgressions, free the slaves of all races who live in Tevinter today.
• Dorian: I… don’t know that I can do that.
• Solas: Then how sorry are you?

 

Spoiler

Aaaah, but then I don't understand! Because his attitude there is one of 'why try to recreate the past? Make things better going forward'. Why has that changed? Why has he suddenly gone all 'rewind time'? Are we sure he isn't just going to drop the veil and 'bring the magic back' like Sandal said?

[coldwetn0se]

Spoiler

 
Ancient elven society went from idealistic utopia (according to the Dalish) to power hungry slavers ruled by god-kings.  And the truth is probably somewhere in between.  Regardless, Solas will never get back what he lost no matter what he does.  Taking down the Veil won't restore Elvhenan.  At this point it may not even restore the elves to what they were.  Undoing something doesn't necessarily means it reverts back to exactly what it was before the change.
 
He really needs to spend more than 4 years in modern Thedas before deciding to end it all.
 

Ran out of likes.

*LIKE!*

[Moondreamer01]

Spoiler

Time travel makes my head hurt.

 

Amen!

[drosophila]

Spoiler

 

Ancient elven society went from idealistic utopia (according to the Dalish) to power hungry slavers ruled by god-kings.  And the truth is probably somewhere in between.  Regardless, Solas will never get back what he lost no matter what he does.  Taking down the Veil won't restore Elvhenan.  At this point it may not even restore the elves to what they were.  Undoing something doesn't necessarily means it reverts back to exactly what it was before the change.

 

He really needs to spend more than 4 years in modern Thedas before deciding to end it all.

 

 

Spoiler

 

Ugh, I am honestly so conflicted, finding something to agree on both sides and not sure what to believe.

 

Can I play Devil's advocate on this one?

 

I don't think it is ancient Elvhenan as it was that he is trying to bring back. He is just trying to give the world back to his people. The people he cared so deeply about that he fougth endlessly to free, until he felt he had no choice but to destroy the veil itself. The world belonged to them and what he did took it away. All he is trying is to give that back, so that they can build everything anew. He calls it 'restoration'. I think it's more akin to repaying a debt. He will give them back the Fade, and they can do with it (and with him) whatever they wish.

 

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[Siha]

What would you suggest?

 

Screenshots. Of every page. We will look at them later like at old family photos, with a soft smile around our lips and tears in the corners of our eyes.

[Miss This or That]

Spoiler

That's what I'm wondering about. If he's immortal and spells would take years way back when, what's his rush? Even if he's on some sort of time limit because the alignment of the moon with the left tree on the east coast of the continent will sway and lose a leaf in a particular gust of wind once every so many years, he'd still have time to wait for it to come around again, take time to see what the world really is without the shroud of dissociation being so strong over his eyes. He could live a bit, love and discover what has happened over the years, and not just by dreaming it in the Fade.

 

Unless that's precisely why he is rushing. Living in the world and trying to make a go at making things work well for the elves, or anyone else, would invest him in a time he desperately needs to remain not real because of his past guilts or whatever. That's... interesting to think on.

 

Spoiler

I think that is part of why he does not allow himself to truly see how beautiful Thedas CAN be. He tries countless times to get away from Lavellan because he knows that it's anything but good for his future plans. But I think he said everyone WAS immortal - meaning he isn't anymore, either? He was immortal in Uthenera, of course, but I don't think he, himself, is immortal anymore. Maybe?

[Oswin]

Wow, okay so...

Spoiler

IT IS DEFINITELY GENOCIDE. And it's not just genocide - he's killing thousands of years of people. And not just of one particular race, of ALL races. All of their art. All of their history. All of their aches, pains, loves, hopes, dreams, creativity, losses... Gone. And its his attitude of "Eh, they're not real. They're just figments. Tranquil. They're not really living anyway," that should TERRIFY and DISGUST YOU. He has compartmentalized Thedas' future to such a degree that YOU. ARE. NOT. REAL.

 

In a way, he sees modern Thedas as a video game. Something he just has to play through to get back to his real life. That's so, so, so not okay. Because unlike a video game? This IS Solas' world. He IS living in it. Modern Thedas IS real. He is just so dissociated from reality he's created plans to become SO powerful he can undo it. Like a spelling mistake.

 

That should terrify you. It's moral dissociation and excuse for mass destruction on such a scale that it is reprehensible.

 

Sure, Corypheus wanted to rule. But Solas wishes to eradicate in order to restore.

 

EDIT: And even if Solas comes to see SOME people as real (i.e. you) his plans are to put you down like a sick dog. You'll be in comfort. But then you will cease to exist anywhere but in his memory.

 

Spoiler

Our very own Dragon Age Reaper. Destroy the current races! Huzzah!

I am just sorting out all my video saves from this and decided to rewatch that scene. Damn, Solas. 

"I really like you, sucks you have to die"

No I don't you ass. Just don't destroy the freaking world and hey presto! Not dead. How good could you world have been anyway? You did kinda break it.

 

Now I'm wishing Lavellan had smacked Solas around with her recently cut off arm. No no and no. You don't get to be all "I'm not a monster. You'll at least all die free"

Oh gee. Thanks. 

 

You won't hear a lot of Solas defence from me. I still love the character because I love a good train wreck. But yeesh. He really is a villain. Just because he essentially created the current Thedas doesn't really give him the right to tear it down like it's nothing. I've put too many hours into saving the damn place 

 

I'm even more confused than ever about the Elven world now. 

 

... So is anyone actually feeling intrigued? Or does anyone else just have a headache   I just have a headache and annoyance that my BW romances never pan out. Oh I knew Solas's was going to be a disaster, but it looks like my Dorian one isn't going to be sunsets either. 

 

FFffffff. 

[BoscoBread]

Spoiler

Oh gosh. Now I just want to give him comuppance even more

 

 

Spoiler

Thanks, but I'm pretty sure I was just quoting Leliana. If I wasn't and I actually said something smart then: go me!

 

 

Spoiler

I feel like we should extend our blanket fort.

 

 

Spoiler

There's two ways of reading that scene:

First, like you said, future!Solas has left his old plans behind. But if that was the case, then wouldn't he warn Inky what presant!Solas was up to?

Second: the world Cornflakes has created is a mockery of the world that he wanted to create. The veil is torn, not removed, spirits are being drawn into our world and turning into demons, red lyrium is corrupting everything it touches and the entire place is a hellscape. It WORSE than the future he first created.

 

 

Someone needs to update Solas o'clock to this.

 

 

What is that from?  Is that the hell rollercoaster that was made for the theme park game?  The one that took nearly a year and had an exit that led back to the start?

 

 

Spoiler

oooooh, I think you may be onto something.

 

Someone needs to summon Madrar.  She needs to see this.

 

 

Is there a codex entry or dialouge on 3?  Because if there is then I missed it completely.

 

 

Spoiler

I have made this thread a sanctum of optimism and feels. Why do you threatern it?

 

*waves tiny TO flag*

 

but I think you may be right

Spoiler

When you meet the Qunari chick - the first time you see her - there is a codex entry that discusses Koslun talking about Fen'Harel in the desert.  It's in an alcove.  

 

There is no TO - there is only blood, thunder, and chaos with this ship!! I'm in it for the whole insane ride. Just let it happen.  

 

@Ave and Liz

Spoiler

Liz and I were discussing this yesterday. I think it's likely what he is going to do.  No matter if you go to Redcliffe or not - there is still mention of time magic in the Western Approach. And the only way to get it - is through a rift in the Fade. I think it is a very plausible theory. He is intrigued by the idea in the main game and mentions "i didn't think of this"  and now that the idea is out there...i think that's what he's going to do. Undo what he did and deal with the the pantheon another way.

 

So he's going to unmake modern thedas.  you won't exist anymore. 

[tsunamitigerdragon]

.