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[Cee]

I've been going through this thread for the better part of three hours and I am finally pretty much caught up.

 

I see the 'what happened to Teagan' discussion happened already.

 

But seriously, it's only like 15 years later. Maybe he went from ~35 to 50 being generous, but really, Frostbite engine?

[Sable Rhapsody]

Spoiler

I was thinking about this earlier, and it's definitely not the Enavuris based on how he talks. There might be more to him wanting to do this so badly than "all of you aren't real and I want muh world back". There might be people "hurting" that he needs to free

 

Spoiler

Apparently it's "Evanuris."  I done goofed yesterday too; I was just re-watching the final scene because apparently I hate myself.

[Miss This or That]

Spoiler

 

 

I regarded the way he treats Dorian as one of his flaws even before the latest revelation. But I think that in particular relates more to Solas just really valuing social activism. He believes if you don't like something in how society works, you have to fix it no matter what. So Dorian saying he simply can't sounds to Solas like Dorian is not trying hard enough. 

 

Spoiler

Yes, I understand what you mean - but in hindsight, that is just even more narrow minded than I thought it would be in the end. Like, here we have a god that is building an army, and he holds Dorian, a normal Tevinter magister to the same standards that he sets for himself. Gosh is that egghead hard to crack. I think my Inky after Solas will have a lovely relationship with Dorian.

[Avejajed]

Welp.

That moment when you didn't realize what world save you had in the keep when you started your playthrough and didn't realize you had Alistair a Grey Warden until you talk to Hawke.


I cant.

[Wynele]

I've been going through this thread for the better part of three hours and I am finally pretty much caught up.

 

I see the 'what happened to Teagan' discussion happened already.

 

But seriously, it's only like 15 years later. Maybe he went from ~35 to 50 being generous, but really, Frostbite engine?

My theory is all that banging Isolde on the side drained the life outta him.    

[drosophila]

Spoiler

Tell ya what, my next play through is going to feel very different now.  I don't know if any characters going forward will romance Solas.  Don't get me wrong, I don't hate him.  Still care a great deal about the character.  Holy moly.  I finished Trespasser a couple of hours ago, and while I always suspected this is the direction it was all headed, still was a sucker punch when it all unfolded.

 

Spoiler

Oh, thanks so much for sharing  I've been feeling so conflicted about everyhting I've learned, I keep going back and forth on my opinion and I am completely unsure of whether I can excuse his motivations.

 

It's been a turbulent evening, and I'm glad I can share my musings about a character I still deeply care about and hear others relate instead of cowering to protect myself from arrows/daggers/swords/fireballs. 

 

I guess I just really care about living things, OK? Ones that possess consciousness in particular. And IRL I really emphasize kindness, caring, and all that jazz. So it's really difficult to accept where this story is going. 

 

Team Optimism keep saying we can eventually convince him to change his mind, but I'm really scared to trust the devs with that, since all I've seen so far about his character has been a downward spiral. A hellspiral! 

[Sable Rhapsody]

I know you guys would probably enjoy this:

 

Spoiler

 

I just noticed something in this music.

 

Spoiler

The loud, deep, ominous beats in the music?  Those sound awfully like sound effects for the rifts, or the Breach.  Oh, and also now I'm tearing up.  Dat music yo.

[Uirebhiril]

Spoiler

So the slide about the elves disappearing or assembling or whatever... am I the only one a little annoyed, or finding it odd that Lavellan isn't allowed to tag along and take part if she wanted, but all the damned elves in the world apparently get the offer?

 

 Either it's a terrible thing because they will all be used as pieces in a game, but believe they are following to some great end -- or they really are following to some great end, even if it's terrible for most of the world but fine for the elves, and Lavellan has to be the odd one out trying to hunt down someone that all the other "not real" people are flocking to and guarding? Pffft.

[drosophila]

Spoiler

Apparently it's "Evanuris."  I done goofed yesterday too; I was just re-watching the final scene because apparently I hate myself.

 

Spoiler

I was thinking about that earlier today: the evanuris and Enavuris in the Exalted Plains - possible relationship or just seriously overthinking it?

[RynJ]

Spoiler

Yes, I understand what you mean - but in hindsight, that is just even more narrow minded than I thought it would be in the end. Like, here we have a god that is building an army, and he holds Dorian, a normal Tevinter magister to the same standards that he sets for himself. Gosh is that egghead hard to crack. I think my Inky after Solas will have a lovely relationship with Dorian.

 

Spoiler

Maybe but I think that might be reading a little much into it. Solas knows that what he's doing is not something others can do. However, it's clear that he regards Dorian as all talk and no action and doesn't respect him in the least because of it. I think he even respects Sera more than him at times because Sera's doing something, even if he doesn't quite grasp what that something is. Then again, even Dorian thinks he's all talk based on how he talks later and decides to take more action. It's some arrogance, but I don't think he expects Dorian to be able to gain the same power he can and change the world that way.

 

I DO think he thinks that you can accomplish pretty much everything by throwing yourself at the problem over and over, though, and expects the same of Dorian if Dorian is truly committed to change and making amends. 

[Miss This or That]

Spoiler

Maybe but I think that might be reading a little much into it. Solas knows that what he's doing is not something others can do. However, it's clear that he regards Dorian as all talk and no action and doesn't respect him in the least because of it. I think he even respects Sera more than him at times because Sera's doing something, even if he doesn't quite grasp what that something is. Then again, even Dorian thinks he's all talk based on how he talks later and decides to take more action. It's some arrogance, but I don't think he expects Dorian to be able to gain the same power he can and change the world that way.

 

I DO think he thinks that you can accomplish pretty much everything by throwing yourself at the problem over and over, though, and expects the same of Dorian if Dorian is truly committed to change and making amends. 

 

Spoiler

Ah, I know I am, but it's just really exciting to see this all from a bit of a different perspective. It's so sad to see what Solas thinks he has to do, though. But what he says to Bull pretty much sums up his entire being: Solas: "Your Qun would crush the brilliant few for the mediocre many!" It just sucks that he thinks the 'mediocre many' are pretty much all of modern Thedas.

[midnight tea]

Spoiler

So the slide about the elves disappearing or assembling or whatever... am I the only one a little annoyed, or finding it odd that Lavellan isn't allowed to tag along and take part if she wanted, but all the damned elves in the world apparently get the offer?

 

 Either it's a terrible thing because they will all be used as pieces in a game, but believe they are following to some great end -- or they really are following to some great end, even if it's terrible for most of the world but fine for the elves, and Lavellan has to be the odd one out trying to hunt down someone that all the other "not real" people are flocking to and guarding? Pffft.

 

Spoiler

Well... that's assuming that they're actually flocking under Fen'Harel's banner. We don't know that though. Do elves from Tirashan with red vallaslins "belong" to him as well? Maybe someone is trying to accomplish something else? Hard to say at this point.

 

Besides - even if it IS Dread Wolf related, Lavellan is the one who knows the truth, and is apparently determined to save more than just one of group of people (assuming that they're going to be saved).

[drosophila]

Spoiler

So the slide about the elves disappearing or assembling or whatever... am I the only one a little annoyed, or finding it odd that Lavellan isn't allowed to tag along and take part if she wanted, but all the damned elves in the world apparently get the offer?

 

 Either it's a terrible thing because they will all be used as pieces in a game, but believe they are following to some great end -- or they really are following to some great end, even if it's terrible for most of the world but fine for the elves, and Lavellan has to be the odd one out trying to hunt down someone that all the other "not real" people are flocking to and guarding? Pffft.

 

Spoiler

With the elves: Man, so the whole time he was in the Inquisition, painting his little murals in the rotunda and studying shards and manuscripts on his desk, he was also building his spy network within the Inquisition?! Wow. 

 

Also, it's incredible how this went unnoticed.

 

Solas: I found about the Qunari plot when my spies in the Inquisiton tripped into their spies in the Inquisition.

Lavellan: Seriously?! Can you tell me who your spies are, so I can promote them? I'm really losing confidence in Leliana and her people. 

 

Finally about their identity: They could be your regular elves he is misleading into working for him, or they could be ancient elves in disguise. 

[Jaderail]

The only thing keeping me a little hopeful is at the end of Trespasser

 

Spoiler

During the dialogue at the end of the Solas scene where you have the choice to say "I wont give up on you" and it appears as one of the important decisions, like freeing the mages or conscripting them, and exiling or keeping the Wardens around. I have a feeling that'll be one of the "Keep" choices for the next game. Possibly at the very end of this we may have the choice to either save Solas from himself or destroy him.

 

And also at the very end of the dlc where you stab that poor map, and the Inquisitor says something like  "we'll save our friend from himself"

 

I want to remain optimistic. Is team optimism still a thing?

[Uirebhiril]

Spoiler

Well... that's assuming that they're actually flocking under Fen'Harel's banner. We don't know that though. Do elves from Tirashan with red vallaslins "belong" to him as well? Maybe someone is trying to accomplish something else? Hard to say at this point.

 

Besides - even if it IS Dread Wolf related, Lavellan is the one who knows the truth, and is apparently determined to save more than just one of group of people (assuming that they're going to be saved).

 

Spoiler

True. It could be something like Briala leading a charge, for all we know. I'll have to pay more attention to it when I wrap up the second run through, because damn did I miss a lot. And I thought I was being thorough.

[NightSymphony]

My theory is all that banging Isolde on the side drained the life outta him.  

Out of likes.  LOL...I like this theory.

[_Lucinia]

Spoiler

Dwarves clearly existed prior to that point. In fact, their records pre-date Elvhen history and the founding of Arlathan. The primeval thaig is almost 10,000 years old. I don't think Solas means to kill everyone EXCEPT for elves. I think what he hopes to do is restore the world that was. Including the Dwarven empire below.

 

What Solas aims to do is create a rift/ breach so massive the veil would collapse and in that moment utilize time magic to run back time. That's why you and those in your world weren't seen as "real" to him. You were a mistake - a point in time he could rewind and would never happen. A dream. A figment. That's why we were forced to see time magic TWICE in game. Once at Redcliffe, and just to make sure Solas was aware that time magic was possible, again at that one Tevinter temple with Servis. Time magic is also ONLY possible when the veil is massively damaged.

Sorry for quoting something from hours ago, but

 

Spoiler

It's kind of like Chekhov's gun in a way.  Right?  I think you're onto something here.  Why on earth would they introduce time travel magic, and in such a specific way otherwise.  The entire plot of siding with the mages is totally foreshadowing.  Makes sense why Solas is always going on about how people aren't "real".  Resets the time line to before he created the Veil and then no one in current time line ever existed.  Including his Vhenan.  She can't be real, because if she is he can't wipe her out of existence.  Oh and he'll always remember you all. 

 

Sorry kind of rambling stream of consciousness right now.
 

Honestly, I can't see his plan involving blowing up the world, or sending it into chaos.  His plan must involve resetting the time line, which is still technically killing everyone.  Man.

[Cee]

Spoiler

Yeah, it's pretty horrifying.  Equally horrifying is the idea that a friendly/romanced Inquisitor changes his mind about people, and he still steels himself to go through with his f***ing terrible plan in Trespasser.  *shudder*

 

Or the alternative explanation, which is IMO even worse: with friendly/romance quizzy, he allows himself the indulgence of a dream.  For the brief period when he's with the Inquisition, he's just Solas.  He doesn't have to bear the burden of the Dread Wolf.  And with romanced Lavellan, he almost lets go of the burden for the dream, before it all comes rushing back with awful weight.  And he loved the dream so much that he had to force himself to abandon it.

 

Spoiler

 

It's horrifying, yes, but it's also....sad on like eight different levels of sad. They added EVEN MORE layers of sad to Solas. There's some sort of reluctance there, and it leaves a small crack in the door for hope. Hope is a terrible thing to give up on, and I'm glad it ended on a note where hope still remains open.

 

Solas' plans and deeds are simultaneously noble and also very, very bad. But in a resigned, too-obsessed with the past and looking back, treating people as not 'real' to minimize the effect.

 

When we were all just theorizing, there was already indication removing the Veil would be dangerous. And his dialogue does hint at that being one of his plans. We already knew that he held certain distance between himself and others.

 

But additionally, Cole...Cole still believes..."he isn't that kind of wolf". There's still hope.

 

I feel a lot of things, but it's clear that even when he tries to deny caring, he cares. I'm so glad that for the romance, he was just straightforward about caring, about still loving her, with no pretenses.

 

Some may hate the lore dump but I liked the way he just told you the whole truth. He, finally, did not obscure, he didn't decline, he didn't avoid it. He was, finally, just honest.

 

 

 

[drosophila]

Spoiler

To be honest, I was a little annoyed by how... ungrateful? the elves were.

 

I mean, my Lady Lavellan spent the whole game making it clear that she was elven, loved elves, loved being elven, wanted to help elves, and was using every resource at her disposal to make life as better for elves as possible. She became allies with the elven mage Fiona and increased rights for mages (of which elves are naturally inclined), elected an elven puppeteer behind the Orlesian throne, and helped elect a new Divine who was a more mage-friendly and elf-friendly.

 

Then in Tresspasser she finds out that elven spies infiltrated the Inquisition to help their chosen Qunari masters blow her and all other Southern Thedas leaders sky-high (literally destroying all the progress she made on the elves' behalf), and then after it was over that all the elves of Orlais fled en masse to join Solas' "destroy the world to restore our personal glory" effort.

 

At this point, I imagine she was thinking, "Hey! Hey! Get back here! I didn't endure Chantry and Orlesian politics for the last two years in order to make life better for you here, just to see you run off to join the Qunari's "invade and conquer and convert" or Solas' "destroy the world to restore our former glory" effort."

 

Some people!

 

Spoiler

Haha, I was just posting just a day before DLC came out how my Lavellan was a horrible person, because:

 

1. She didn't listen to Solas when making any of her political decisions.

2. She did nothing specifically to help the elves. The Inquisition was for all races equally.

 

Only exception was allying with the Sentinels and now I'm worried that Abelas is going to turn out to have crazy world destroying plans as well. Abelas is too hot for this! At least he works for Mythal who by all accounts so far seems to be of a decent sort. 

 

[Sable Rhapsody]

Spoiler

 

Finally about their identity: They could be your regular elves he is misleading into working for him, or they could be ancient elves in disguise. 

 

Spoiler

I have a feeling it's a mix of both.  Ancients like Felassan in disguise, but his agent in the Inquisition didn't strike me as an ancient elf.  And I think the epilogue mentions city elves and servants--something tells me that the ancient elvhen would have a hard time humbling themselves enough to blend in as Orlesian servants.

 

 

Spoiler

So the slide about the elves disappearing or assembling or whatever... am I the only one a little annoyed, or finding it odd that Lavellan isn't allowed to tag along and take part if she wanted, but all the damned elves in the world apparently get the offer?

 

Spoiler

Probably because Solas doesn't want her there.  He didn't want her to follow him through the eluvian either.  While he might have once used the Inquisitor to serve his own purposes, the idea of dragging her directly into his mess seems to pain him greatly in Trespasser.  He already knows she wants to stop him, and more to the point, she actually has the ability to weaken his resolve.  So he keeps her out of the loop out of a misguided attempt to spare her.  As though she wouldn't go after him anyway, the DOLT 

[drosophila]

Spoiler

 

It's horrifying, yes, but it's also....sad on like eight different levels of sad. They added EVEN MORE layers of sad to Solas. There's some sort of reluctance there, and it leaves a small crack in the door for hope. Hope is a terrible thing to give up on, and I'm glad it ended on a note where hope still remains open.

 

Solas' plans and deeds are simultaneously noble and also very, very bad. But in a resigned, too-obsessed with the past and looking back, treating people as not 'real' to minimize the effect.

 

When we were all just theorizing, there was already indication removing the Veil would be dangerous. And his dialogue does hint at that being one of his plans. We already knew that he held certain distance between himself and others.

 

But additionally, Cole...Cole still believes..."he isn't that kind of wolf". There's still hope.

 

I feel a lot of things, but it's clear that even when he tries to deny caring, he cares. I'm so glad that for the romance, he was just straightforward about caring, about still loving her, with no pretenses.

 

Some may hate the lore dump but I liked the way he just told you the whole truth. He, finally, did not obscure, he didn't decline, he didn't avoid it. He was, finally, just honest.

 

 

Spoiler

 

He cares. I know he cares. But that's kind of part of the horror for me. A big black wolf cloaked in darkness who hurts as the world is bleeding between his teeth. 

 

BTW, whose mythology was it IRL that the world will end when a wolf eats the sun?

 

All the romantic parts were good though. No complaints about the romance, he clearly loves Lavellan very much. And that epilogue card about her seeing him from the distance in a dream... Those were good tears. 

 

[Avejajed]

I just noticed something in this music.

Spoiler

The loud, deep, ominous beats in the music? Those sound awfully like sound effects for the rifts, or the Breach. Oh, and also now I'm tearing up. Dat music yo.

I get serious chills. I think that is my favorite from the DLC's. The loud deep beats at the beginning are amazing. Ugh chills forever. Its like a warning, and you know the music means ****** business.

[Cee]

I asked my friend if she'd lend me her dog for a while as a feels support cuddle buddy but she's not having it.

[NightSymphony]

Spoiler

 

He cares. I know he cares. But that's kind of part of the horror for me. A big black wolf cloaked in darkness who hurts as the world is bleeding between his teeth. 

 

BTW, whose mythology was it IRL that the world will end when a wolf eats the sun?

 

All the romantic parts were good though. No complaints about the romance, he clearly loves Lavellan very much. And that epilogue card about her seeing him from the distance in a dream... Those were good tears. 

 

Norse mythology