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[drosophila]

Spoiler

He's not always right but he also knows more than we do about Solas feelings, and a person with feelings and a heart is not capable of cruelty. He needs a push in the right direction and he needs good friends. I really do love how he is still called a friend when they plan to find him at the end of the game if you choose redemption. He's not Fen'harel or Dread Wolf, just Solas. A friend to the Inquisition and loved by one Dalish elf who never ran from him in fear of knowing the truth.

 

Spoiler

But it's not that Solas is a bad person. Not at all! It's that his actions have taken a turn for the worse, and his incredible resolve is unfortunately one of his admirable qualities.

[_Lucinia]

So... Trespasser question:

 

Spoiler

In the videos I've seen so far with an elf Inquisitor, I've never seen the option for Lavellan to point out that Solas is the Dread Wolf.

 

Source: http://tsyele.tumblr...o-in-trespasser

 

 

I'm just curious if anyone else got that option? If so, I'm just curious how Lavellan delivers her "You're the Dread Wolf" line.

 

Also, here's the Tumblr user's explanation on possibly why lots of people never got the Elf response (maybe bugs?): http://tsyele.tumblr...oiler-image-for

 

Catching up on the thread, so apologies if someone else answered this for you.

 

Spoiler

In my play through I did have that conversation option.  My Lavellan did not drink from the well.  The response was nothing special, but she did say this:

Spoiler

 

So it was nice to see her say it.

 

[AllThatJazz]

Spoiler

He's not always right but he also knows more than we do about Solas feelings, and a person with feelings and a heart is not capable of cruelty. He needs a push in the right direction and he needs good friends. I really do love how he is still called a friend when they plan to find him at the end of the game if you choose redemption. He's not Fen'harel or Dread Wolf, just Solas. A friend to the Inquisition and loved by one Dalish elf who never ran from him in fear of knowing the truth.

 

What Solas did before he was put to sleep was typical of someone who had not been shown a different path. The Inquisitor proved him wrong and showed him a world he thought impossible to accept.

Spoiler

Solas is absolutely capable of cruelty I think, just not thoughtless cruelty. And I imagine a lot of thought has gone into what he's planning, and he doesn't see an alternative right now. That said, while Cole isn't always right (I think Lizasaurus is right, he sees intent not method), as long as there is something in Solas that deserves compassion where Erimond doesn't, we can't lose hope altogether. *Crosses everything and wills 4 years to pass*. 

[tsunamitigerdragon]

Spoiler

He's not always right but he also knows more than we do about how Solas feelings, and a person with feelings and a heart is not capable of cruelty. He needs a push in the right direction and he needs good friends. I really do love how he is still called a friend when they plan to find him at the end of the game if you choose redemption. He's not Fen'harel or Dread Wolf, just Solas. A friend to the Inquisition and loved by one Dalish elf who never ran from him in fear of knowing the truth.

 

Ok - so here's the thing. And I don't have to spoiler this. Just because you understand someone's intent and perhaps their emotional state, doesn't stop them from being wrong. Cole can feel ALL the compassion he wants. He can understand the motivations behind someone. But that doesn't mean he approves of their course of action. 

Moreover, Solas has forced Cole to forget. He does it at the end of DA:I and he'll probably continue to do it. Hence why Human Cole might be the safe option, if you want a Cole who is as honest with you as you need him to be.
 

As for the heart not capable of cruelty bit.. Did you see what he did to those mages? Mages who didn't know better?

Spoiler

Did you see what he did to the rest of the pantheon? For Mythal's murder he separated them from the physical world AND PUNISHED THEM FOR ETERNITY. That was his goal. It wasn't a rap on the wrist, it wasn't punishment for a period of time, it wasn't an attempt to rehabilitate.. He thought to make them suffer for what they did. FOREVER. Except now plans have changed because his veil-fade-prison isn't the fix-all he hoped it to be.

Moreover, have you played another character who isn't a Lavellan who doesn't agree with him? What he says to you is VILE. He condemns you! He doesn't seek to understand your motives, where you came from - no. You're an inexcusable brute. Whose disappearance from reality he'll meet with relish. Because he doesn't. think. you. are. real. You are a mistake to be rectified.

TL;DR: Solas is a person just like everyone else. With GLORIOUS FLAWS and heartbreaking intents. But that doesn't mean he doesn't have nasty sides to him. Just like we all do. Except hopefully none of us have genocidal tendencies.

[Delphine]

Catching up on the thread, so apologies if someone else answered this for you.

 

Spoiler

In my play through I did have that conversation option.  My Lavellan did not drink from the well.  The response was nothing special, but she did say this:

Spoiler

 

So it was nice to see her say it.

 

 

Spoiler

Do you have screenshots, or recall what Solas answered to this, what was his reaction?

[Cee]

Spoiler

Cole speaks to Solas several times about what happened.  He knows exactly what Solas did and why, and what he's planning to do.  And he thinks there's something in him worth saving.

 

 

 Moreover, Solas has forced Cole to forget. He does it at the end of DA:I and he'll probably continue to do it. Hence why Human Cole might be the safe option, if you want a Cole who is as honest with you as you need him to be.

 

Spoiler

 

Because Cole knows, because Weekes confirmed that the only thing Cole forgot was how to follow him, this is how I see it too. Cole remembers everything else. He knows who he is and his pain and regret as well as what his plans are.

 

The "he isn't that type of wolf", as well as some other bits and his greatly approves when you talk about going to save him...those make me feel better. Cole isn't giving up on Solas and neither is Lavellan.

 

And neither am I, there's still hope. That's where I think I'll sit until our next game.

 

[drosophila]

Weekes has said that Solas' relationship with Cole is to enable us to see his good side.

 

 

Like that scene in the Hinterlands where he walks off to help the injured human woman.

 

Spoiler

Yes, his good side. He has many good sides. He can be incredibly kind and humane to everyone before he leads them to their death - it still reminds me of the way one would treat animals sent to slaughter. 

 

None of this would be so sad and horrifying if he wasn't a good person underneath. 

 

I hope you can redeem him. I hope he comes to love the world, ends up accepting it and finding some peace in it. I hope he doesn't die in the process. I hope he hasn't done enough so far that he will forever be tortured with regret. It's just a lot of 'if's at this point and the story has taken an incredibly dark turn that have issues coming to terms with. 

 

[Delphine]

Ok, let's get this once and for all:

 

Spoiler

Ultimately, this is just interpretation.

People who resent Solas and want to knife-murder him will find any given thing to back up their feelings about it.

People who want to save Solas will try to see the better side of him, and hope for redemption.

 

And correct me if I'm wrong, but it does feel that, no matter what Solas did in his past, it was horrible. But DA;I has, times and times again, told a story of how people can change for the better, if you actively help them to. It also has been a story about forgiving, growing up, and be a better being. Blackwall story is very much that to my eyes, and I fail to see how Solas couldn't be that as well. That's why I'll be Team Optimism, Solas IS worth saving, despite all the bad he did in his past, he can become a better person, redeem himself, and grow from this, if he allows us to. If you chose to not forgive him, fine, that's something between you and your feelings and mindset. Doesn't mean than anyone WILLING to save him is a complete immoral fool.

[_Lucinia]

Spoiler

Do you have screenshots, or recall what Solas answered to this, what was his reaction?

This might be what he says regardless.  I've only played through Trespasser once so I have no idea if these lines are different:

Spoiler

I can't remember if I took a screen of everything he said, so apologies if I missed something before these:

Spoiler

 

[Illyria]

Trespasser theory:

 

Spoiler

The devs made Teagan unlikeable just to anger people so it would take some of the heat off the Solas fans.

 

Also, I've rerolled my Lavellan, help.  I need an intervention.

[Delphine]

This might be what he says regardless.  I've only played through Trespasser once so I have no idea if these lines are different:

Spoiler

I can't remember if I took a screen of everything he said, so apologies if I missed something before these:

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

Yeah he says that in every dialog. No specific reaction to calling him Fen'Harel, I'm disappointed.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

Ok, let's get this once and for all:

 

Spoiler

Ultimately, this is just interpretation.

People who resent Solas and want to knife-murder him will find any given thing to back up their feelings about it.

People who want to save Solas will try to see the better side of him, and hope for redemption.

 

And correct me if I'm wrong, but it does feel that, no matter what Solas did in his past, it was horrible. But DA;I has, times and times again, told a story of how people can change for the better, if you actively help them to. It also has been a story about forgiving, growing up, and be a better being. Blackwall story is very much that to my eyes, and I fail to see how Solas couldn't be that as well. That's why I'll be Team Optimism, Solas IS worth saving, despite all the bad he did in his past, he can become a better person, redeem himself, and grow from this, if he allows us to. If you chose to not forgive him, fine, that's something between you and your feelings and mindset. Doesn't mean than anyone WILLING to save him is a complete immoral fool.

 

Spoiler

I never once called anyone an immoral fool.

 

I never said that he couldn't be redeemed.

 

I never said I wouldn't forgive him.

And I never made any value judgement of any kind against what you choose to do.

 

All I did was point out the moral disconnect between what Solas' intent is and what his actions are. A disconnect Cole sees very clearly.

Please do not project.

[BoscoBread]

@Liz - Yes - Like Samson - whose reasons for turning the Templars understandable and they were actually coming from a place of compassion(with a sprinkle of rage at the chantry) they do NOT justify what he did to them and to the people in the Emprise. 

 

The same thing could be Solas. 

 

Spoiler

I will repeat again.  I find him - Solas -  100% more interesting as a character and I actually feel very sorry for him. He's very depressing.  And you know what - in context - I see where he is coming from.  But you like...have to squint to see it.  And the thing is, I do believe he's not happy about what he's doing. He doesn't relish what he's doing.  But he's still doing it.  There is NO justification for it.  So Cole is reading that intent and for him that is enough -- it's ALWAYS been. For him that is worth pursuing to save.  And in the end - he may be right - but for Cole "saving" sometimes means death.  I'm not quite on the side-- and Liz clarified that she is not either --  that "Solas is beyond hope". I don't.  But I don't think you're going to skip off into the sunset with him.  That's just...not him.  I think he will have to die. I think he will actually want to.  But I think you will stop him and I think he will see how he was wrong.  And contribute positively before he goes.

[Eurowande]

Spoiler

Solas is worth saving , and my Lavellan will have non of this, she will find him and made him see that hes wrong, that there is better way and that they can find it together .

About the mages he killed , i wished there is an option to kill them myself from my first playthrough and i wasnt yet so in love with him. It was just so painful for me to see what they have done and i was so angry.

[NightSymphony]

Ok, let's get this once and for all:

 

Spoiler

Ultimately, this is just interpretation.

People who resent Solas and want to knife-murder him will find any given thing to back up their feelings about it.

People who want to save Solas will try to see the better side of him, and hope for redemption.

 

And correct me if I'm wrong, but it does feel that, no matter what Solas did in his past, it was horrible. But DA;I has, times and times again, told a story of how people can change for the better, if you actively help them to. It also has been a story about forgiving, growing up, and be a better being. Blackwall story is very much that to my eyes, and I fail to see how Solas couldn't be that as well. That's why I'll be Team Optimism, Solas IS worth saving, despite all the bad he did in his past, he can become a better person, redeem himself, and grow from this, if he allows us to. If you chose to not forgive him, fine, that's something between you and your feelings and mindset. Doesn't mean than anyone WILLING to save him is a complete immoral fool.

Out of likes.  YES!

[_Lucinia]

Spoiler

Yeah he says that in every dialog. No specific reaction to calling him Fen'Harel, I'm disappointed.

Spoiler

Provided I didn't miss a line before those screenshots.

I have to go pick my niece up from school.  I have a save point from before that convo.  When I have more time later I'll check and see that I didn't miss a screen. Unless someone else confirms it.  If not, yeah I'll go through it again to confirm 100%.

[drosophila]

Ok, let's get this once and for all:

 

Spoiler

Ultimately, this is just interpretation.

People who resent Solas and want to knife-murder him will find any given thing to back up their feelings about it.

People who want to save Solas will try to see the better side of him, and hope for redemption.

 

And correct me if I'm wrong, but it does feel that, no matter what Solas did in his past, it was horrible. But DA;I has, times and times again, told a story of how people can change for the better, if you actively help them to. It also has been a story about forgiving, growing up, and be a better being. Blackwall story is very much that to my eyes, and I fail to see how Solas couldn't be that as well. That's why I'll be Team Optimism, Solas IS worth saving, despite all the bad he did in his past, he can become a better person, redeem himself, and grow from this, if he allows us to. If you chose to not forgive him, fine, that's something between you and your feelings and mindset. Doesn't mean than anyone WILLING to save him is a complete immoral fool.

 

Spoiler

 

I absolutely do not resent Solas. I absolutely do not want to knife-murder him. I do see the better side of him and went for the redemption option. 

[CapricornSun]

Spoiler

 

Because Cole knows, because Weekes confirmed that the only thing Cole forgot was how to follow him, this is how I see it too. Cole remembers everything else. He knows who he is and his pain and regret as well as what his plans are.

 

The "he isn't that type of wolf", as well as some other bits and his greatly approves when you talk about going to save him...those make me feel better. Cole isn't giving up on Solas and neither is Lavellan.

 

And neither am I, there's still hope. That's where I think I'll sit until our next game.

 

Ok, let's get this once and for all:

 

Spoiler

Ultimately, this is just interpretation.

People who resent Solas and want to knife-murder him will find any given thing to back up their feelings about it.

People who want to save Solas will try to see the better side of him, and hope for redemption.

 

And correct me if I'm wrong, but it does feel that, no matter what Solas did in his past, it was horrible. But DA;I has, times and times again, told a story of how people can change for the better, if you actively help them to. It also has been a story about forgiving, growing up, and be a better being. Blackwall story is very much that to my eyes, and I fail to see how Solas couldn't be that as well. That's why I'll be Team Optimism, Solas IS worth saving, despite all the bad he did in his past, he can become a better person, redeem himself, and grow from this, if he allows us to. If you chose to not forgive him, fine, that's something between you and your feelings and mindset. Doesn't mean than anyone WILLING to save him is a complete immoral fool.

 

Out of likes, but yes to both of these.

[Cee]

Trespasser theory:

 

Spoiler

The devs made Teagan unlikeable just to anger people so it would take some of the heat off the Solas fans.

 

Also, I've rerolled my Lavellan, help.  I need an intervention.

 

Spoiler

 

But why did they have to also turn him into Ben Kingsley?

 

[Cee]

Ok, let's get this once and for all:

 

Spoiler

Ultimately, this is just interpretation.

People who resent Solas and want to knife-murder him will find any given thing to back up their feelings about it.

People who want to save Solas will try to see the better side of him, and hope for redemption.

 

And correct me if I'm wrong, but it does feel that, no matter what Solas did in his past, it was horrible. But DA;I has, times and times again, told a story of how people can change for the better, if you actively help them to. It also has been a story about forgiving, growing up, and be a better being. Blackwall story is very much that to my eyes, and I fail to see how Solas couldn't be that as well. That's why I'll be Team Optimism, Solas IS worth saving, despite all the bad he did in his past, he can become a better person, redeem himself, and grow from this, if he allows us to. If you chose to not forgive him, fine, that's something between you and your feelings and mindset. Doesn't mean than anyone WILLING to save him is a complete immoral fool.

 

Out of likes, but yes, this.

[drosophila]

@Liz - Yes - Like Samson - whose reasons for turning the Templars understandable and they were actually coming from a place of compassion(with a sprinkle of rage at the chantry) they do NOT justify what he did to them and to the people in the Emprise. 

 

The same thing could be Solas. 

 

Spoiler

I will repeat again.  I find him - Solas -  100% more interesting as a character and I actually feel very sorry for him. He's very depressing.  And you know what - in context - I see where he is coming from.  But you like...have to squint to see it.  And the thing is, I do believe he's not happy about what he's doing. He doesn't relish what he's doing.  But he's still doing it.  There is NO justification for it.  So Cole is reading that intent and for him that is enough -- it's ALWAYS been. For him that is worth pursuing to save.  And in the end - he may be right - but for Cole "saving" sometimes means death.  I'm not quite on the side-- and Liz clarified that she is not either --  that "Solas is beyond hope". I don't.  But I don't think you're going to skip off into the sunset with him.  That's just...not him.  I think he will have to die. I think he will actually want to.  But I think you will stop him and I think he will see how he was wrong.  And contribute positively before he goes.

 

Yep, you're putting my thoughts into words better than I can.