153429 réponses à ce sujet

[CapricornSun]

I just had a wicked and evil idea! Well not evil but to some it might be.

 

Spoiler

What if as he is begging for death with no power left to defend himself, Lavellan hesitates and he attacks one final time, trying to stop her as his madness takes over, then he stops suddenly, eyes wide and then as he falls toward the floor and Lavellan catches him, we see Cole behind him and a knife sticking out of Solas' back. Solas then lands in her lap and dies in her arms as Cole says he's finally at peace and will wait for her.

 

This is just an option though, and not the only choice of course!

 

     

 

Please don't give Weekes any ideas...

[Illyria]

Spoiler

That's a good point. I have a feeling you might be able to change his mind, and maybe to make up for everything he's done, an ultimate sacrifice would make sense.

 

But I reallllllllly hope that's not the only option.

 

Spoiler

I'd love a rainbows and puppies ending, but Solavellan isn't that kind of story. When I want fluff for my Lavellan I'm going to have her romance Josie. At the moment the best I see for Solas is him changing his mind, and then stopping his own plans at the cost of his own life.

 

Spoiler

My jaw just about hit the floor when I realized that I could talk Saren into shooting himself.  I hadn't found him terribly sympathetic before that, TBH, but in those final moments when he broke free of the indoctrination I almost cried for him.  If we get another Saren Arterius with Solas, I will be 1000% destroyed but so, so happy with the story if it's well done.

 

Spoiler

That moment made me feel for him, but I had slightly less sympathy after I read the first ME book and realised he was a jerk before getting Indoctrinated.

[laurelinvanyar]

Spoiler

My jaw just about hit the floor when I realized that I could talk Saren into shooting himself.  I hadn't found him terribly sympathetic before that, TBH, but in those final moments when he broke free of the indoctrination I almost cried for him.  If we get another Saren Arterius with Solas, I will be 1000% destroyed but so, so happy with the story if it's well done.

Spoiler

Me too. I just can't see Solas making himself a place in this world. Even if he stops his plans, he would still be out of place, and everywhere he looked would still be a mistake. What would life be like for a Lavellan who went through In Hushed Whispers without Dorian? Trapped in a "destroyed" world, all your friends dead, and no way back. For me, the only peace Solas might get is in death.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Guys, I am back on the Team Optimism train.

 

*throws glitter in the air and decorates the blanket fort with TO banners*

 

Banal Nadas!

 

And all was once more right in the Solas thread

 

I still have my Tiny Team Optimism flag.  I think I'm just gonna put it away for a bit while waiting for DA4.

 

Here's the thing: as much as I love headcanons and speculations, I remember what it was like building ME3 up to this huge, unattainable level, and then having the game fall short of those grossly unrealistic expectations.  I've been happy with all three DA games so far, and I think it's largely because I was able to take each on its own merits without holding onto the previous game.  But I know I'll have a much harder time letting go of Inquisition.

 

Spoiler

So as much as I would love to play DA4 with my Lavellan and her b*tching crossbow arm, I'm trying to keep my thoughts on the future relatively neutral.

[Delphine]

Spoiler

While one of the themes of the game might very well be redemption, I think when we compare Blackwall and Solas, scale ought to be considered.
 
We now have it confirmed that, in creating the Veil, Solas destroyed the empire. Technically, he has already committed one genocide (though the definition is imperfect; it likely was not deliberate). What is troubling is that he is willing to knowingly commit another, after having seen you and your people as real at last. Blackwall killed children, knowingly, but it was not his intent. He never comes clean until the time of Inquisition. But when he does, he repents, and fully. He does not continue to make the same mistakes. He makes no excuses, offers no reasoning. He admits he was wrong. Solas does not share that final trajectory at all. He does not think he is wrong.
 
Whatever the intent, no matter how noble his goals seem in comparison to Blackwall's, we cannot fairly compare the two. The crimes are much too different. The mentalities of the two characters are different, too. While Blackwall was clearly meant to be a foil to Solas, I think in the end what he was supposed to represent to Solas was the possibility of forgiveness. Not a one-to-one comparison.

Spoiler

While I agree the comparison was not optimal, I have yet to understand when doesn't Solas feel guilty and bad for creating the Veil? Feelings of guilt is pretty much what drives him to commit a second horror, in the hopes of repairing the first one. You do not get more sorry than that.

His methods are horrendous, but he pretty much hates himself for destroying what he once knew in such a horrible way. Then again, he tells it in a manner implying "he had no other better choice", which I tend to believe is right. After all, who knows what Thedas would look like nowadays, if he hadn't at least tried, in a very despicable way, but still try. Not to excuse his acts, but I very much doubt Thedas would be in a better place either.

[midnight tea]

Spoiler

I would like a way to strip him of everything and he is now mortal without any power beyond a normal mage and has no choice but to live in and accept this new world, with Lavellan helping him adapt to it, staying by his side and working through it all. The other option would be her killing him as he begs her to end it because he was wrong and can't bear to be trapped in this madness any longer.

 

Spoiler

 

Really peeps? In a world where - with magic - anything is possible? I mean, at least I assume that there are times in Thedas where this is every close to the truth - hence Solas likely created the Veil in a very specific moment, and plans to undo it in a very specific moment.

 

In any case, depending on how things go, the 'good' or 'bittersweet' ending can really be anything - aside form him dying while still loved or turning into a 'regular' mage and living the mortal life. He can join Inquisitor and the rest in fighting the Blight/Enavuris/whatevs. He may have to leave somewhere outside the realm of Thedas - maybe we'd even have an ending where elves would have to leave to different, newly-created realm separate from Thedas proper, in order to preserve their way of life? Maybe Lavellan would be able to join him there? Maybe they'd both die, but they stay together in the Fade, or they'd be reborn.

At this point, the possibilities are nearly endless.

[Cee]

     

 

Please don't give Weekes any ideas...

 

Please.

 

 

Spoiler

I'd love a rainbows and puppies ending, but Solavellan isn't that kind of story. When I want fluff for my Lavellan I'm going to have her romance Josie. At the moment the best I see for Solas is him changing his mind, and then stopping his own plans at the cost of his own life.

 

Spoiler

 

I think there may be ....options, but mostly with one huge cost or another. I still think we're missing some important pieces. Though I think a sacrifice like that is almost certainly on the table. But I'm also open to surprises, and I don't think they're out of them just yet.

 

[MayriyaNoori]

I just had a wicked and evil idea! Well not evil but to some it might be.

 

Spoiler

What if as he is begging for death with no power left to defend himself, Lavellan hesitates and he attacks one final time, trying to stop her as his madness takes over, then he stops suddenly, eyes wide and then as he falls toward the floor and Lavellan catches him, we see Cole behind him and a knife sticking out of Solas' back. Solas then lands in her lap and dies in her arms as Cole says he's finally at peace and will wait for her.

 

This is just an option though, and not the only choice of course!

Spoiler

 

I'll take it.

 

[AllThatJazz]

Spoiler

So he figures it out and...then what? Just goes to settle down with Lavellan with 2.5 kids and a mabari? I can't see him going "Well gee I see you all as people worth protecting now I'm just gonna go hang out kthxbai". I'm wondering if we're going to get another Saren Arterius.

Spoiler

I think there are plenty of shades of grey in between fluffy bunnies and tragic death though. Honestly, I do get a little bit tired sometimes of the 'only redemption is death' idea (which I think should be an option, just not the only possibililty). I think there is a redemptive quality in having to live, to carry the burden of your mistakes and try to atone. In films etc, death to me sometimes feels like a cop out by writers who don't want to deal with the fallout of a guilty character surviving and living with guilt. Which is why I thought the Blackwall arc was great, it didn't give him the easy way out.

 

Solas will never be a happy character, but I believe that he could find some measure of peace without necessarily dying to achieve it, if supported by those who care about him. If Bioware chooses to allow it, obviously

[Illyria]

Spoiler

I think there are plenty of shades of grey in between fluffy bunnies and tragic death though. Honestly, I do get a little bit tired sometimes of the 'only redemption is death' idea (which I think should be an option, just not the only possibililty). I think there is a redemptive quality in having to live, to carry the burden of your mistakes and try to atone. In films etc, death to me sometimes feels like a cop out by writers who don't want to deal with the fallout of a guilty character surviving and living with guilt. Which is why I thought the Blackwall arc was great, it didn't give him the easy way out.

 

Solas will never be a happy character, but I believe that he could find some measure of peace without necessarily dying to achieve it, if supported by those who care about him. If Bioware chooses to allow it, obviously

 

Spoiler

Although at the moment I think the best ending for Solas is death (but redeemed death!) I agree that the whole thing of 'the best redeemption is death' is tiresome. I mostly support it with Solas because it ties into his fear of dying alone. What if instead he dies with his friends (and maybe his lover) near him and finally at peace with himself and his choices?

[Vorathrad]

Spoiler

I just finished Trespasser with my Solasmance and I am drowning in feels.

 

It was so beautiful. And so sad. And so beautiful. And so sad.

 

*slowly crawls into the blanket fort*

[Sable Rhapsody]

Spoiler

 

I think there may be ....options, but mostly with one huge cost or another. I still think we're missing some important pieces. Though I think a sacrifice like that is almost certainly on the table. But I'm also open to surprises, and I don't think they're out of them just yet.

 

 

Spoiler

I just don't want him to go full-scale villain.  Or if he does, I hope he becomes so scary and intimidating (a la Jon Irenicus) that I can stop feeling for him and get on with the Xanatos Speed Chess.  As long as he's still a sympathetic character and the Solavellan arc FINALLY gets closure, I'll be happy.

 

 

Spoiler

Which is why I thought the Blackwall arc was great, it didn't give him the easy way out.

 

Spoiler

100% agreed, to my great surprise.  I wasn't a huge fan of how Blackwall's character arc was done in the main game; it felt too short after Revelations for me to get a decent idea of who he really was, and what he wanted.  But the two year skip and his dialogue in Trespasser really turned it around.  I sent him to the Wardens, and not only is he busting ass for them, he ditches the false name.  He joins the Wardens as Thom Rainier.  He owns all his actions, all his mistakes, and keeps pressing forward.  I was so, so proud of him.

[Eurowande]

Spoiler

did i missed something or ppl now judging him for creating the veil too? WTF

[Sable Rhapsody]

On the whole redemption = death thing:

 

Spoiler

I'm of two minds.  On one hand, Solas has been through so much hell that I think a peaceful death with Lavellan present is maybe the best he can get.  On the other hand, I'm a big fan of poetic justice.  I love having Anders live in the world he made.  I love using the drow's own murderous plots against them in Baldur's Gate.  I don't want Solas to suffer, but I think the guy is due for some poetic justice.  And if he almost let go of his plans after only a short time with Lavellan, I think he could eventually learn to let go of the past and appreciate what time he has in this world.

[Illyria]

And all was once more right in the Solas thread

 

I still have my Tiny Team Optimism flag.  I think I'm just gonna put it away for a bit while waiting for DA4.

 

Here's the thing: as much as I love headcanons and speculations, I remember what it was like building ME3 up to this huge, unattainable level, and then having the game fall short of those grossly unrealistic expectations.  I've been happy with all three DA games so far, and I think it's largely because I was able to take each on its own merits without holding onto the previous game.  But I know I'll have a much harder time letting go of Inquisition.

 

Spoiler

So as much as I would love to play DA4 with my Lavellan and her b*tching crossbow arm, I'm trying to keep my thoughts on the future relatively neutral.

 

Spoiler

The DA team is different from the ME team. And let's face it - was the Dark Engery plot any better than Star Child? I think ME3 was always heading for a mess (but then I came in right at the end - finished ME3 about a month before the Extended Cut hit - so I didn't get that buildup)

But I get what you mean. I rememeber just over a year ago when everything in DAI was full of promise and the game itself, which I love, has never really lived up to that. Too much was stripped out of the game, and not enough was added back in.

My place is Team Optimism is assured, but it's a realistic optimism. I've never believed Solas and Lavellan could live happily ever after, and Trespasser confirmed that for me. But I do believe he's worth saving from himself and that he's still a good person, no matter how much he hardens his heart to a cutting edge to steel himelf for the days to come.

Oh no. I just realised what he meant by that line.

[Moondreamer01]

I wonder if we really are inadvertently giving Weekes ideas? 

Pretty sure it's nothing he hasn't thought of before, eh.

[Illyria]

On the whole redemption = death thing:

 

Spoiler

I'm of two minds.  On one hand, Solas has been through so much hell that I think a peaceful death with Lavellan present is maybe the best he can get.  On the other hand, I'm a big fan of poetic justice.  I love having Anders live in the world he made.  I love using the drow's own murderous plots against them in Baldur's Gate.  I don't want Solas to suffer, but I think the guy is due for some poetic justice.  And if he almost let go of his plans after only a short time with Lavellan, I think he could eventually learn to let go of the past and appreciate what time he has in this world.

 

Maybe open up a donut shop?

[Sable Rhapsody]

I wonder if we really are inadvertently giving Weekes ideas? 

 

Oh, I'm positive Weekes is full to the brim with heartbreaking possibilities without our help.

 

He did such a fantastic job with Solas.  And it hurts him to write it just as much as it hurts us, so we're really all in the same slightly damp blanket fort

[laurelinvanyar]

Spoiler

did i missed something or ppl now judging him for creating the veil too? WTF

Spoiler

You heard the spirits in the library, right? All those people dying horrible deaths? It's not like creating the veil was a bloodless transition. Creating the veil might have been the best option in a worst-case scenario, but people suffered from Solas' actions.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Maybe open up a donut shop?

 

 

I'm having a hard time with fluff at the moment.  Give it some time and I'll be back on the fluff train, but right now all I can feel is the hellspiral.

[midnight tea]

Spoiler

While one of the themes of the game might very well be redemption, I think when we compare Blackwall and Solas, scale ought to be considered.

 

We now have it confirmed that, in creating the Veil, Solas destroyed the empire. Technically, he has already committed one genocide (though the definition is imperfect; it likely was not deliberate). What is troubling is that he is willing to knowingly commit another, after having seen you and your people as real at last. Blackwall killed children, knowingly, but it was not his intent. He never comes clean until the time of Inquisition. But when he does, he repents, and fully. He does not continue to make the same mistakes. He makes no excuses, offers no reasoning. He admits he was wrong. Solas does not share that final trajectory at all. He does not think he is wrong.

 

Whatever the intent, no matter how noble his goals seem in comparison to Blackwall's, we cannot fairly compare the two. The crimes are much too different. The mentalities of the two characters are different, too. While Blackwall was clearly meant to be a foil to Solas, I think in the end what he was supposed to represent to Solas was the possibility of forgiveness. Not a one-to-one comparison.

 

Spoiler

Yes, but Blackwall acted out of pretty much pure, unadulterated selfishness - he didn't want to kill the children, but eventually the greed pushed him to betrayal and fear to not telling his men they should stop as well as running away from his crime.

 

Solas, on the other hand, desperately tried to save the world and elves in however form possible. We do hear him say that creating the Veil because every other alternative was worse. It seems like he had little choice: the power-hungry Enavuris would apparently ruin the world to a point where nothing can be done about it. For all we know he SAVED the elves from something far worse - even if it meant the destruction of their civilization and turning them int shadows of themselves. At least it let them survive.

 

We don't know what happened that either made them so power-hungry or what they've done (aside form killing Mythal), but the picture painted by both Solas and snippets from codex entries don't appear pleasant. He may have either not foreseen how profound the effect of the Veil was, or accepted it as sad necessity (for a time?). And even if the situation with Enavuris is more complex than "Muahahahaha! Evil!" (Mythal was one after all, and Solas seems to - at the very least - greatly respect her), seeing sadness oozing out of Solas, I have to conclude that he was neither happy to create the Veil, nor he's happy to destroy it. He said it himself, and it is sadly true - sometimes there are no other choices. And even if there is one now on the horizon, it's either too faint for him to consider it, or Solas is too resigned into doing what he thinks must be done.