153429 réponses à ce sujet

[Meer]

Spoiler

While I agree the comparison was not optimal, I have yet to understand when doesn't Solas feel guilty and bad for creating the Veil? Feelings of guilt is pretty much what drives him to commit a second horror, in the hopes of repairing the first one. You do not get more sorry than that.

His methods are horrendous, but he pretty much hates himself for destroying what he once knew in such a horrible way. Then again, he tells it in a manner implying "he had no other better choice", which I tend to believe is right. After all, who knows what Thedas would look like nowadays, if he hadn't at least tried, in a very despicable way, but still try. Not to excuse his acts, but I very much doubt Thedas would be in a better place either.

 

Spoiler

The issue with Solas is how he handles this guilt. He is sorry for what he has done. There is no doubt of this. But he aims to do the same thing twice. The thing he feels guilt for, that he feels such crushing guilt over? He will do it again, this time knowing the consequences. Knowing that the Pantheon will be there waiting. That the world he inadvertently created will be utterly unmade. Ferelden, Orlais, The Free Marches, Seheron, Rivain, Tevinter, Orzammar, humans, qunari, dwarves, all the modern elves...everything will be gone.

 

What he plans to do is beyond genocide. It is, as laurelinvanyar put it the other night, an extinction event. There is, as you say, no excuse for this. But what he did is done and he refuses to live with the consequences of that. His guilt is destructive. Furthermore if Corypheus had died with the orb, had Solas never met you, he may never have felt guilt over what he might potentially to do this world at all. It takes him a long time to even think of you, or your companions as real, living, worthy. He says as much himself.

[Cee]

I wonder if we really are inadvertently giving Weekes ideas? 

 

Dear Weekes - Sunshine and rainbows and flowers.

[drosophila]

On the whole redemption = death thing:

 

Spoiler

I'm of two minds.  On one hand, Solas has been through so much hell that I think a peaceful death with Lavellan present is maybe the best he can get.  On the other hand, I'm a big fan of poetic justice.  I love having Anders live in the world he made.  I love using the drow's own murderous plots against them in Baldur's Gate.  I don't want Solas to suffer, but I think the guy is due for some poetic justice.  And if he almost let go of his plans after only a short time with Lavellan, I think he could eventually learn to let go of the past and appreciate what time he has in this world.

 

Spoiler

Death would be a good option for him if he comes to terms with what he's done and how the world is first. As he is now, he will die considering himself a monster (Am I the only one who hears in his voice when he says, "I'm not a monster" that he is trying to convince himself just as much as he's trying to convince her?) who failed to make amends. He will not be at peace. 

 

I prefer letting him live a little bit in the world he built. Seeing both the good and the bad that came out of it. Doing some sort of good for the world to make amends for his mistake. Realizing that even if his people are gone, you can always build a home of your own anywhere. And when he's created that home for himself, let him die. 

[Moondreamer01]

Spoiler

Is it possible Andruil's madness from the Void was the Blight and they all went crazy?

Spoiler

Quite possible I'd say.

[Meer]

Spoiler

Yes, but Blackwall acted out of pretty much pure, unadulterated selfishness - he didn't want to kill the children, but eventually the greed pushed him to betrayal and fear to not telling his men they should stop as well as running away from his crime.

 

Solas, on the other hand, desperately tried to save the world and elves in however form possible. We do hear him say that creating the Veil because every other alternative was worse. It seems like he had little choice: the power-hungry Enavuris would apparently ruin the world to a point where nothing can be done about it. For all we know he SAVED the elves from something far worse - even if it meant the destruction of their civilization and turning them int shadows of themselves. At least it let them survive.

 

We don't know what happened that either made them so power-hungry or what they've done (aside form killing Mythal), but the picture painted by both Solas and snippets from codex entries don't appear pleasant. He may have either not foreseen how profound the effect of the Veil was, or accepted it as sad necessity (for a time?). And even if the situation with Enavuris is more complex than "Muahahahaha! Evil!" (Mythal was one after all, and Solas seems to - at the very least - greatly respect her), seeing sadness oozing out of Solas, I have to conclude that he was neither happy to create the Veil, nor he's happy to destroy it. He said it himself, and it is sadly true - sometimes there are no other choices. And even if there is one now on the horizon, it's either too faint for him to consider it, or Solas is too resigned into doing what he thinks must be done.

 

Spoiler

His feelings, no matter how contrite, are not an important aspect of his actions. It is what his actions ultimately were, what he learned and didn't learn from them, and what he plans to do again. We don't know if there were other paths. It seems to me that if he regrets his actions now, that he views his past self as foolish and as rash now? He might have found another way. After all, that's what he's trying to do in the present, no? The unfortunate part is that he's still wrong, and using the same techniques as before.

[Illyria]

Spoiler

The issue with Solas is how he handles this guilt. He is sorry for what he has done. There is no doubt of this. But he aims to do the same thing twice. The thing he feels guilt for, that he feels such crushing guilt over? He will do it again, this time knowing the consequences. Knowing that the Pantheon will be there waiting. That the world he inadvertently created will be utterly unmade. Ferelden, Orlais, The Free Marches, Seheron, Rivain, Tevinter, Orzammar, humans, qunari, dwarves, all the modern elves...everything will be gone.

 

What he plans to do is beyond genocide. It is, as laurelinvanyar put it the other night, an extinction event. There is, as you say, no excuse for this. But what he did is done and he refuses to live with the consequences of that. His guilt is destructive. Furthermore if Corypheus had died with the orb, had Solas never met you, he may never have felt guilt over what he might potentially to do this world at all. It takes him a long time to even think of you, or your companions as real, living, worthy. He says as much himself.

 

Completely unrelated:

 

Your icon is frigging adorable.  I want to hug her.

 

Spoiler

Also, everytime you describe Solas' motives (like in this post) it add +100 to my feels and sadness.

 

Dammit, Egg.  Just make some friends in this world.

[Moondreamer01]

Spoiler

The more i think about it, what if Solas had to create the Veil because the Blight made Arlathan the Black City and he stopped the plague of madness? He looked so longingly at the City that it seemed too personal to be a goal for death and destruction. He look homesick. And Cole said the City remembered itself before it fell.

Out of vote *grumbles* so have a repost instead. I think you're right!

[MaidenM]

Spoiler

Yes, but Blackwall acted out of pretty much pure, unadulterated selfishness - he didn't want to kill the children, but eventually the greed pushed him to betrayal and fear to not telling his men they should stop as well as running away from his crime.

 

About Blackwall.

Spoiler

I'd just like to point out, because I hate when people miss it, that Blackwall knows that he has killed children, but he didn't know that he would. He thought the noble would be travelling alone with his guards, not his family. One of his banters with Cole makes it clear that he couldn't see who was in the carriage when he gave the order and only realized they where children when he heard screams to high pitched to be from adults.

 

Sorry, I get nitpicky. Not even sure it war spoiler-tag worthy.

[Delphine]

Spoiler

The issue with Solas is how he handles this guilt. He is sorry for what he has done. There is no doubt of this. But he aims to do the same thing twice. The thing he feels guilt for, that he feels such crushing guilt over? He will do it again, this time knowing the consequences. Knowing that the Pantheon will be there waiting. That the world he inadvertently created will be utterly unmade. Ferelden, Orlais, The Free Marches, Seheron, Rivain, Tevinter, Orzammar, humans, qunari, dwarves, all the modern elves...everything will be gone.

 

What he plans to do is beyond genocide. It is, as laurelinvanyar put it the other night, an extinction event. There is, as you say, no excuse for this. But what he did is done and he refuses to live with the consequences of that. His guilt is destructive. Furthermore if Corypheus had died with the orb, had Solas never met you, he may never have felt guilt over what he might potentially to do this world at all. It takes him a long time to even think of you, or your companions as real, living, worthy. He says as much himself.

 

Spoiler

Then we can only hope that the Inquisitor, whether romanced or friendly, will help him deal with his guilt, and help him learn to live with what he has done, and the consequences of it all. His complete denial to deal with what he has done is not something I feel definite here, and opens up possibilities of character growth. After all, he's a wonderful character on many aspects, but his flaws are no joke as well, we'll all agree on that. He looks to me like someone who's struggling so much to grow up, and needs a (maybe gigantic) push to do so. My Lavellan would kill him without batting an eye, if the possibility of personal growth turned out to be impossible. She'd save Thedas most and foremost, there's not doubt about that, but she's still convinced that he's worth saving. Definitely venturing in the deep grey area morally, but still not too far to give up.

[BoscoBread]

Spoiler

Yes, but Blackwall acted out of pretty much pure, unadulterated selfishness - he didn't want to kill the children, but eventually the greed pushed him to betrayal and fear to not telling his men they should stop as well as running away from his crime.

 

Solas, on the other hand, desperately tried to save the world and elves in however form possible. We do hear him say that creating the Veil because every other alternative was worse. It seems like he had little choice: the power-hungry Enavuris would apparently ruin the world to a point where nothing can be done about it. For all we know he SAVED the elves from something far worse - even if it meant the destruction of their civilization and turning them int shadows of themselves. At least it let them survive.

 

We don't know what happened that either made them so power-hungry or what they've done (aside form killing Mythal), but the picture painted by both Solas and snippets from codex entries don't appear pleasant. He may have either not foreseen how profound the effect of the Veil was, or accepted it as sad necessity (for a time?). And even if the situation with Enavuris is more complex than "Muahahahaha! Evil!" (Mythal was one after all, and Solas seems to - at the very least - greatly respect her), seeing sadness oozing out of Solas, I have to conclude that he was neither happy to create the Veil, nor he's happy to destroy it. He said it himself, and it is sadly true - sometimes there are no other choices. And even if there is one now on the horizon, it's either too faint for him to consider it, or Solas is too resigned into doing what he thinks must be done.

 

Spoiler

Yes - but then he pretty much infers - the way the world is now. The way the elves are now. IS the darkest timeline.  The alternatives were were not this bad.  Thus the mistake.  But his mistake came with the birth of empires. Cultures. Civilizations. Futures. Etc.  These will all be unmade because he - at the end of day one person - doesn't like it?  No.  

 

And the scale here between blackwall and SOlas is VASTLY different.  Both Delphine and Meer pointed out they cannot be 1 to 1.  The crimes are different -- killing 3 children and erasing a culture not the same. The men are different.  To repeat Meer - Blackwall was there to remind Solas that there is a possibility of forgiveness. That's all. 

[Meer]

Completely unrelated:

 

Your icon is frigging adorable.  I want to hug her.

 

Spoiler

Also, everytime you describe Solas' motives (like in this post) it add +100 to my feels and sadness.

 

Dammit, Egg.  Just make some friends in this world.

 

Thank you so much! She is incredibly cuddly. We call her Meer-vellan, haha.

 

Spoiler

He breaks my heart too. I loved the reveals of this DLC. I won't let Solas off easy, no way, no how, but I think he's five hundred times as fascinating as before. My feels are back and stronger than ever.

[Eomie]

My Song to Solas.

 

Well...nevermind. It seems to not want to post.

Modifié par Eomie, 10 septembre 2015 - 08:47 .

[MoonDrummer]

Spoiler

Yes - but then he pretty much infers - the way the world is now. The way the elves are now. IS the darkest timeline.  The alternatives were were not this bad.  Thus the mistake.  But his mistake came with the birth of empires. Cultures. Civilizations. Futures. Etc.  These will all be unmade because he - at the end of day one person - doesn't like it?  No.  

Spoiler

It's funny how Solas would hate to be called a god but he acts like one. The world didn't turn out how you wanted? Flood it and start again.

[Oswin]

So I took my Male Lavellan through Trespasser.

 

"For whatever it's worth; thanks for the castle"

 

It didn't hurt me any less. Although I did try to out do Solas's attire. None one out-fabulous's Tristan Lavellan.

 

Spoiler

 

IMPRACTICAL ARMOUR PARTY!

 

 

 

and the sad faces.

Solas kills me with his:

"I would treasure the chance to be wrong once again, my friend"

 

FEELS.

 

 

"Live well, while time remains." 

 

Damn Solas. Damn. What kind of comment is that!? Live well, with one arm, a boyfriend that he can't see much of, a close friend who is out to burn Thedas to the ground... Pfft. Live well. He'll be lucky to even sleep at night.

 

And because it didn't happen in the romance. I Gif'd the weird Hand fist pump scene for those that haven't seen it.

Spoiler

"I'm sorry"

 

Bringing Cole didn't help. He kept making me feel bad with his comments.

Yeesh.

 

and as my Male Lavellan didn't get a sunset ending either, he's got plenty of time on his hands... for searching.

 

Also, nice to see this thread is back to having about 10 posts made while I try to write one 

[Solas]

omg yasss

Spoiler

did yall hear maryden sing the song Mercy for the Elves? implications for elves in da4 I reckon

 

'Dalish father' hello DW

[Miss This or That]

Thank you so much! She is incredibly cuddly. We call her Meer-vellan, haha.

 

Spoiler

He breaks my heart too. I loved the reveals of this DLC. I won't let Solas off easy, no way, no how, but I think he's five hundred times as fascinating as before. My feels are back and stronger than ever.

 

Why did you pick this name, btw? It means sea in german and has always been one of my favourite words of my native language.

[BoscoBread]

Spoiler

It's funny how Solas would hate to be called a god but he acts like one. The world didn't turn out how you wanted? Flood it and start again.

Oh yeah - 100% Agree.  

 

SOLAS - CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE!

[Cee]

Spoiler

 

 

 

and as my Male Lavellan didn't get a sunset ending either, he's got plenty of time on his hands... for searching.

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

After this gif....time on his hands....well. I feel bad for laughing at the phrasing.

[Delphine]

Spoiler

It's funny how Solas would hate to be called a god but he acts like one. The world didn't turn out how you wanted? Flood it and start again.

 

Spoiler

Can't agree more with you there. He's so blinded by himself at times, it's not even funny.

[Avejajed]

Work has been way too busy for me to feed my obsession. Anything earth shattering I've missed over the last three hours?

[Cee]

omg yasss

Spoiler

did yall hear maryden sing the song Mercy for the Elves? implications for elves in da4 I reckon

 

'Dalish father' hello DW

 

Spoiler

I'm glad I have subtitles turned on because this caught my eye when I wasn't even close to the tavern. The lyrics came up anyway and I just waited to let the whole thing play out.

 

Definitely very intriguing.

[AllThatJazz]

omg yasss

Spoiler

did yall hear maryden sing the song Mercy for the Elves? implications for elves in da4 I reckon

 

'Dalish father' hello DW

Well that's fascinating. 

 

Spoiler

Slightest unite/Giant rise maybe Dwarves/Titans? Coming to the aid of the elves?

 

Dalish father/Dalish son though?

 

DW?