153429 réponses à ce sujet

[Illyria]

Thank you so much! She is incredibly cuddly. We call her Meer-vellan, haha.

 

Spoiler

He breaks my heart too. I loved the reveals of this DLC. I won't let Solas off easy, no way, no how, but I think he's five hundred times as fascinating as before. My feels are back and stronger than ever.

 

*boops Meer-vellan's nose*

 

Spoiler

Everything about Solas is just so tragic. At first I felt utterly replused by him in Trespasser (but still took the redeem and romance paths because that's what Lavellan would do. Then it went into 'how can I ever like him again?' and I'm now on the 'okay, wow. He's the best character in DA ever' train.

Your comment about not giving him an easy time reminds of what Geeky-Jez on tumblr said her Lavellan would be doing. She's still in love with Solas but she's going to devote herself to causing as much trouble as possible for him and his goals.  This post: http://geeky-jez.tum...as-thoughtsmoreif you're interested.

[The Oracle]

Spoiler

It's funny how Solas would hate to be called a god but he acts like one. The world didn't turn out how you wanted? Flood it and start again.

 

Spoiler

Yes, he's sort of becoming what he claims to hate the most.

 

I really wish Solas had actually listened to Varric when they had their banter. I think Varric must have been put in as the voice of reason to Solas's rash fatalism.

[midnight tea]

Spoiler

His feelings, no matter how contrite, are not an important aspect of his actions. It is what his actions ultimately were, what he learned and didn't learn from them, and what he plans to do again. We don't know if there were other paths. It seems to me that if he regrets his actions now, that he views his past self as foolish and as rash now? He might have found another way. After all, that's what he's trying to do in the present, no? The unfortunate part is that he's still wrong, and using the same techniques as before.

 

Spoiler

I think Solas would agree that his feelings are not an important aspect of his actions - hence he's doing what he's doing. His plan appears to be based on rational grounds, even if there are raw emotions underneath, which he desperately tries to curb. We know him through Inquisition and we hear him saying that he respected Mythal for being a voice or reason - we even know through interview with Patrick Weekes that aside from some compassionate choices, he always approves of thoughtfulness and thinking things through, even if they are ruthless.

 

Therefore yes - I'm inclined to believe he really thought he had no other choice when he created the Veil. It wasn't just something he's done on a whim, or driven by pain and emotion - it was done with careful, cool calculation. THAT'S what scary in Solas, IMO. He feels terrible guilt and sadness, but he can disconnect from his emotions (as we saw in case we heard Cole's banter after vallaslin removal) and have determination to push things through, if he thinks is necessary. He may hate it and it may even be the reason why he doesn't want Lavellan to see him like that (maybe, ultimately, he'll lose his emotions entirely?), but ultimately, he's an utilitarian.

 

Anyway - I have to say, I wouldn't be surprised if Mythal and Solas planned creating the Veil all along, maybe even began building it in attempt to change the world they both didn't approve of - the transition might have been much gentler, and maybe even not devastating in case they finished creating the Veil in a shape they wanted it to be, but Mythal's death changed everything (perhaps the rest found out about what was going on) and Solas was forced to act quickly, activating something that may have not yet been finished.

[Oswin]

Spoiler

 

 

After this gif....time on his hands....well. I feel bad for laughing at the phrasing.

 

Damn it 

*epic face palm*

 

[AllThatJazz]

Spoiler

I think Solas would agree that his feelings are not an important aspect of his actions - hence he's doing what he's doing. His plan appears to be based on rational grounds, even if there are raw emotions underneath, which he desperately tries to curb. We know him through Inquisition and we hear him saying that he respected Mythal for being a voice or reason - we even know through interview with Patrick Weekes that aside from some compassionate choices, he always approves of thoughtfulness and thinking things through, even if they are ruthless.

 

Therefore yes - I'm inclined to believe he really thought he had no other choice when he created the Veil. It wasn't just something he's done on a whim, or driven by pain and emotion - it was done with careful, cool calculation THAT'S what scary in Solas, IMO. He feels terrible guilt and sadness, but he can disconnect from his emotions (as we saw in case we heard Cole's banter after vallaslin removal) and have determination to push things through, if he thinks is necessary. He may hate it and it may even be the reason why he doesn't want Lavellan to see him like that (maybe, ultimately, he'll lose his emotions entirely?), but ultimately, he's an utilitarian.

 

Anyway - I have to say, I wouldn't be surprised if Mythal and Solas planned creating the Veil all along, maybe even began building it in attempt to change the world they both didn't approve of - the transition might have been much gentler, and maybe even not devastating in case they finished creating the Veil in a shape they wanted it to be, but Mythal's death changed everything (perhaps the rest found out about what was going on) and Solas was forced to act quickly, activating something that may have not yet been finished.

Spoiler

Out of likes, but that was my thought about it as well - Mythal's murder hurried things along, to devastating consequence.

[Eurowande]

Spoiler

I guess at this point we all agree that he needs a slap and conversation that SHOULD go this way :

Solas : Ir abelas , but ill fix this no matter the cost, thats my plan and ill not change my mind.

Lavellan : Really Solas cuz all your plans so far worked so well...

Solas: well i learn from my mistakes.

Lavellan : You learn nothing, your biggest mistakes is that you keep trying to do everything alone, so when you about to make a wrong decision there is no one to point it out to you.

Solas : .........thats may be true.

Lavellan : well now im here and ill point out to you how BIG a mistake this is

Solas: Indeed you are right. Can you accept me back?

[Solas]

Well that's fascinating. 

 

Spoiler

Slightest unite/Giant rise maybe Dwarves/Titans? Coming to the aid of the elves?

 

Dalish father/Dalish son though?

 

DW?

Spoiler

I think the giant is a metaphor for the power elves would wield if they banded together to rise against humans/the rest of Thedas, with or without the Dread Wolf's help.

 

DW is just short for Dread Wolf.

 

It probably has another meaning but in Dalish father/Dalish son I see Solas - an ancient elf so a literal ancestor of modern elves - as he gathers his agents and forces and goes about executing his plan to tear down the veil. The Dalish son is modern elves - will they survive his plans? They're not his people.

[Delphine]

Spoiler

Now that I think about it, in the case Solas can't manage to forgive himself for what he has done, letting him live, powerless, in current Thedas would be a harder punishment and torment than just killing him. I wonder if that's going to be a possibility.

[drosophila]

Spoiler

The issue with Solas is how he handles this guilt. He is sorry for what he has done. There is no doubt of this. But he aims to do the same thing twice. The thing he feels guilt for, that he feels such crushing guilt over? He will do it again, this time knowing the consequences. Knowing that the Pantheon will be there waiting. That the world he inadvertently created will be utterly unmade. Ferelden, Orlais, The Free Marches, Seheron, Rivain, Tevinter, Orzammar, humans, qunari, dwarves, all the modern elves...everything will be gone.

 

What he plans to do is beyond genocide. It is, as laurelinvanyar put it the other night, an extinction event. There is, as you say, no excuse for this. But what he did is done and he refuses to live with the consequences of that. His guilt is destructive. Furthermore if Corypheus had died with the orb, had Solas never met you, he may never have felt guilt over what he might potentially to do this world at all. It takes him a long time to even think of you, or your companions as real, living, worthy. He says as much himself.

 

I am out of likes, but I agree. Also:

 

Spoiler

Nothing he does will actually repair what he has done in the past. It will not bring back the lives or the civilization he has destroyed. It will just destroy several more civilizations. He scoffs at 'human justice' when they are about to punish murder with another murder. Well, his idea of justice seems to be human justice to the n-th degree. 

 

Also: Did he replace some perfect world with some sort of complete hell? If the old world was so great, why did he have to create the Veil? There was magic, immortality, and great 'technological' achievements (if we consider magic to be part of the technology of Thedas). There was also slavery, vendettas, and wars that tore apart the Empire. 

 

Currently Thedas has circles, wars, stupid mages who corrupt spirits. There's also nugs, people who sing as they unite to fight for their home, people like Mother Giselle who help the refugees, good friends like Varric and Swan Pricesses of Awesome like Josephine. 

 

What will the world that Fen'Harel creates have? We don't even know, but my guess: just as much good and bad as any other world. 

 

Imagine you wake up one day and realize that your modern society had been replaced by something akin from the Dark Ages. Lots of knowledge, technology, and civilization gone, and you might be burned for saying the Earth is round. But people are people, they have love, children, friends, jsut like we have them today.

 

Is your solution going to be: Let's kill all of these people, so that my few surviving fellows can occupy the land and build anew?

 

Or would you go for: This is sad. I will do my best to make as many positive changes as possible. It will be a slow and painful process, and the end result will require more than my own effort, so this world might not end up exactly as I want it to. But I will do my part to improve it.

 

Think of it: He has so much power now. He has rallied agents behind him. If he used all this to change Thedas instead of annihilating it, wouldn't he be able to accomplish a lot?

 

[midnight tea]

Spoiler

Yes - but then he pretty much infers - the way the world is now. The way the elves are now. IS the darkest timeline.  The alternatives were were not this bad.  Thus the mistake.  But his mistake came with the birth of empires. Cultures. Civilizations. Futures. Etc.  These will all be unmade because he - at the end of day one person - doesn't like it?  No.  

 

And the scale here between blackwall and SOlas is VASTLY different.  Both Delphine and Meer pointed out they cannot be 1 to 1.  The crimes are different -- killing 3 children and erasing a culture not the same. The men are different.  To repeat Meer - Blackwall was there to remind Solas that there is a possibility of forgiveness. That's all. 

 

Spoiler

I don't think he ultimately does it on a basis that he doesn't like it. That is completely un-Solas, given that he's established as passionate, but ultimately very rational.

 

I think he does it, because he thinks that the world is already doomed. He DID say to Varric after all - the Grey Wardens bought them some time. Including him, obviously. Either the Blight or something else is already unraveling Thedas, and the only way to save anything is to push a giant reset button, likely just like before it was creating the Veil.

[AllThatJazz]

Spoiler

I think the giant is a metaphor for the power elves would wield if they banded together to rise against humans/the rest of Thedas, with or without the Dread Wolf's help.

 

DW is just short for Dread Wolf.

 

It probably has another meaning but in Dalish father/Dalish son I see Solas - an ancient elf so a literal ancestor of modern elves - as he gathers his agents and forces and goes about executing his plan to tear down the veil. The Dalish son is modern elves - will they survive his plans? They're not his people.

Huh, okay I can see that. I like that. No likes, but I definitely like that.

[Eomie]

Finally!

[laurelinvanyar]

Spoiler

It's funny how Solas would hate to be called a god but he acts like one. The world didn't turn out how you wanted? Flood it and start again.

Spoiler

It's one of the things I've wondered about the Pantheon. If everyone says you're a god, does what you say, feeds your own power, ect. At what point do you start to believe you ARE? At what point did Solas begin taking for granted that people would do as he says and follow his plans? At what point did he start to believe that he knows best for this world? I'm thrilled the Evanuris are just people, because to me the "human" monsters are the most compelling. Passion. Ego. Power. No blight required.  

 

Spoiler

Yes, he's sort of becoming what he claims to hate the most.

 

I really wish Solas had actually listened to Varric when they had their banter. I think Varric must have been put in as the voice of reason to Solas's rash fatalism.

Spoiler

I definitely think Varric was intentionally set as a counterpoint to Solas. Varric's whole worldview is based on embracing the present, looking forward, not dwelling on the past.

[Illyria]

Spoiler

Now that I think about it, in the case Solas can't manage to forgive himself for what he has done, letting him live, powerless, in current Thedas would be a harder punishment and torment than just killing him. I wonder if that's going to be a possibility.

 

Spoiler

As long as by 'powerless' you don't mean 'tranquil'.

Because that would be too much (I only made one character tranquil - Erimond in my first ever playthrough because I was so shocked at the end of Here Lies the Abyss. But it turned out to be such a great character moment for Lavellan I've kept it as part of my canon when I replay her)

 

Powered down to a normal mage level.  That's what I'd want.

[Eurowande]

Ok guys good night from me , i hope when i wake up there will be some nice fanfics

[midnight tea]

Spoiler

Yes - but then he pretty much infers - the way the world is now. The way the elves are now. IS the darkest timeline.  The alternatives were were not this bad.  Thus the mistake.  But his mistake came with the birth of empires. Cultures. Civilizations. Futures. Etc.  These will all be unmade because he - at the end of day one person - doesn't like it?  No.  

 

And the scale here between blackwall and SOlas is VASTLY different.  Both Delphine and Meer pointed out they cannot be 1 to 1.  The crimes are different -- killing 3 children and erasing a culture not the same. The men are different.  To repeat Meer - Blackwall was there to remind Solas that there is a possibility of forgiveness. That's all. 

 

Spoiler

How do you know the alternatives were not this bad? From all the available dialogue during meeting with him, he feels guilty for creating the Veil, but he STILL claims that alternatives would've been worse. So no, it appears that he might really not have had much other choice.

 

Also - I wasn't talking in the context of the scale of the crime, but of its nature. Blackwall's crime was a crime - pure and simple. I don't think however we can call creation of the Veil as something as straightforward, especially given that the outcome might have indeed been better than alternatives, even with its terrible cost.

[Meer]

Why did you pick this name, btw? It means sea in german and has always been one of my favourite words of my native language.

 

I am ashamed to admit it came from an old and unpopular anime. However, I learned the German meaning of the word some time later from a fluent friend, and decided to keep it since it does sound so lovely. c:

 

I am out of likes, but I agree. Also:

 

Spoiler

Nothing he does will actually repair what he has done in the past. It will not bring back the lives or the civilization he has destroyed. It will just destroy several more civilizations. He scoffs at 'human justice' when they are about to punish murder with another murder. Well, his idea of justice seems to be human justice to the n-th degree. 

 

Also: Did he replace some perfect world with some sort of complete hell? If the old world was so great, why did he have to create the Veil? There was magic, immortality, and great 'technological' achievements (if we consider magic to be part of the technology of Thedas). There was also slavery, vendettas, and wars that tore apart the Empire. 

 

Currently Thedas has circles, wars, stupid mages who corrupt spirits. There's also nugs, people who sing as they unite to fight for their home, people like Mother Giselle who help the refugees, good friends like Varric and Swan Pricesses of Awesome like Josephine. 

 

What will the world that Fen'Harel creates have? We don't even know, but my guess: just as much good and bad as any other world. 

 

Imagine you wake up one day and realize that your modern society had been replaced by something akin from the Dark Ages. Lots of knowledge, technology, and civilization gone, and you might be burned for saying the Earth is round. But people are people, they have love, children, friends, jsut like we have them today.

 

Is your solution going to be: Let's kill all of these people, so that my few surviving fellows can occupy the land and build anew?

 

Or would you go for: This is sad. I will do my best to make as many positive changes as possible. It will be a slow and painful process, and the end result will require more than my own effort, so this world might not end up exactly as I want it to. But I will do my part to improve it.

 

Think of it: He has so much power now. He has rallied agents behind him. If he used all this to change Thedas instead of annihilating it, wouldn't he be able to accomplish a lot?

 

 

This, a thousand times this.

[laurelinvanyar]

I am out of likes, but I agree. Also:

 

Spoiler

Nothing he does will actually repair what he has done in the past. It will not bring back the lives or the civilization he has destroyed. It will just destroy several more civilizations. He scoffs at 'human justice' when they are about to punish murder with another murder. Well, his idea of justice seems to be human justice to the n-th degree. 

 

Also: Did he replace some perfect world with some sort of complete hell? If the old world was so great, why did he have to create the Veil? There was magic, immortality, and great 'technological' achievements (if we consider magic to be part of the technology of Thedas). There was also slavery, vendettas, and wars that tore apart the Empire. 

 

Currently Thedas has circles, wars, stupid mages who corrupt spirits. There's also nugs, people who sing as they unite to fight for their home, people like Mother Giselle who help the refugees, good friends like Varric and Swan Pricesses of Awesome like Josephine. 

 

What will the world that Fen'Harel creates have? We don't even know, but my guess: just as much good and bad as any other world. 

 

Imagine you wake up one day and realize that your modern society had been replaced by something akin from the Dark Ages. Lots of knowledge, technology, and civilization gone, and you might be burned for saying the Earth is round. But people are people, they have love, children, friends, jsut like we have them today.

 

Is your solution going to be: Let's kill all of thisese people, so that my few surviving fellows can occupy the land and build anew?

 

Or would you go for: This is sad. I will do my best to make as many positive changes as possible. It will be a slow and painful process, and the end result will require more than my own effort, so this world might not end up exactly as I want it to. But I will do my part to improve it.

 

Think of it: He has so much power now. He has rallied agents behind him. If he used all this to change Thedas instead of annihilating it, wouldn't he be able to accomplish a lot?

 

Do you remember what Shepard says to the Illusive man at the beginning of ME3?

Spoiler

"You were supposed to be a sword for humanity, not a dagger in our backs! "

 

I really REALLY wanted a way to say this to him.

 

Spoiler

I don't think he ultimately does it on a basis that he doesn't like it. That is completely un-Solas, given that he's established as passionate, but ultimately very rational.

 

I think he does it, because he thinks that the word is already doomed. He DID say to Varric after all - the Grey Wardens bought them some time. Including him, obviously. Either the Blight or something else is already unraveling Thedas, and the only way to save anything is to push a giant reset button, likely just like before it was creating the Veil.

Spoiler

Hahaha I have the opposite read on Solas. For all that he claims he's "not much of a gambler anymore" or not that hot blooded cocky youth who thinks he knows best anymore, Solas hasn't really changed all that much to me. Vivienne correctly points out that for all of Solas' grand empathy and love of freedom, he doesn't have a viable solution to most of his plans. Disbanding the circle is super humanitarian, but you still have the problem of mages being a danger to those around them. Kicking out the wardens is justice, but leaves southern thedas with no back up plan in case darkspawn pop up. 

 

To me at least, Solas IS a very VERY emotional thinker who just CLAIMS to be rational. Even his new plan, Project: Destroy the world to rebuild, is made out of a place of fear and guilt, NOT logic. 

 

But this is just my read on him.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Spoiler

 
To me at least, Solas IS a very VERY emotional thinker who just CLAIMS to be rational. Even his new plan, Project: Destroy the world to rebuild, is made out of a place of fear and guilt, NOT logic. 
 
But this is just my read on him.

Spoiler

He feels terrible guilt and sadness, but he can disconnect from his emotions (as we saw in case we heard Cole's banter after vallaslin removal) and have determination to push things through, if he thinks is necessary.

He is SO the Severus Snape of Dragon Age.

[Catwall]

I am out of likes, but I agree. Also:

 

Spoiler

Nothing he does will actually repair what he has done in the past. It will not bring back the lives or the civilization he has destroyed. It will just destroy several more civilizations. He scoffs at 'human justice' when they are about to punish murder with another murder. Well, his idea of justice seems to be human justice to the n-th degree. 

 

Also: Did he replace some perfect world with some sort of complete hell? If the old world was so great, why did he have to create the Veil? There was magic, immortality, and great 'technological' achievements (if we consider magic to be part of the technology of Thedas). There was also slavery, vendettas, and wars that tore apart the Empire. 

 

Currently Thedas has circles, wars, stupid mages who corrupt spirits. There's also nugs, people who sing as they unite to fight for their home, people like Mother Giselle who help the refugees, good friends like Varric and Swan Pricesses of Awesome like Josephine. 

 

What will the world that Fen'Harel creates have? We don't even know, but my guess: just as much good and bad as any other world. 

 

Imagine you wake up one day and realize that your modern society had been replaced by something akin from the Dark Ages. Lots of knowledge, technology, and civilization gone, and you might be burned for saying the Earth is round. But people are people, they have love, children, friends, jsut like we have them today.

 

Is your solution going to be: Let's kill all of these people, so that my few surviving fellows can occupy the land and build anew?

 

Or would you go for: This is sad. I will do my best to make as many positive changes as possible. It will be a slow and painful process, and the end result will require more than my own effort, so this world might not end up exactly as I want it to. But I will do my part to improve it.

 

Think of it: He has so much power now. He has rallied agents behind him. If he used all this to change Thedas instead of annihilating it, wouldn't he be able to accomplish a lot?

 

OK, I am obviously not a regular in this thread, but I had to come here and say "YES!" and "Thank you!" Just, a million times, "This."

[Delphine]

Well, that should be cathartic for a lot of people:

Spoiler

http://bluebudgie.tu...lled-solas-like

[Sable Rhapsody]

OK, I am obviously not a regular in this thread, but I had to come here and say "YES!" and "Thank you!" Just, a million times, "This."

On an unrelated note, your username is awesome. It makes me think of kitty!Blackwall. Fluffy, fluffy black kitty with excellent whiskers.

[Wheels]

So, while doing my main-Lavellan PT for Traspasser I recorded all the cutscenes and rewatched some of them, and maybe I miss something, but

Spoiler

does cutting the arm off actually cure Quizzy? Solas said the mark would kill them eventually. I also recall that one of the devs said that the anchor isn't gone when the hand is gone (or did I dream that?). I'm under the impression that it only buys some time, right?

Thanks to all those who answer my questions all the time

[Sable Rhapsody]

Well, that should be cathartic for a lot of people:

Spoiler

http://bluebudgie.tu...lled-solas-like

It's like the DA:I equivalent of the Refuse ending from ME3 

 

"Haha, suckers, you got what you wanted and LITERALLY THE WORLD BROKE."