153429 réponses à ce sujet

[Miss This or That]

He was only level 1! Solas, you got to grind a couple boars before you go taking on the Inquisition. Doesn't matter how OP your class is. 

 

So much for being a god who is vastly more powerful now than ever, lol.

10 bucks he got fat and lazy within those two years.

[Nightspirit]

I really love the one-hit KO. It only needs a "FATALITYYYYY!" over it.

 

I really love that too, this would be the most anti-climatic reunion scene ever. No dialogue, no comments, he doesn't even fight back and dies with one hit. This is beyond hilarious.

[Meer]

Spoiler

Also - I wasn't talking in the context of the scale of the crime, but of its nature. Blackwall's crime was a crime - pure and simple. I don't think however we can call creation of the Veil as something as straightforward, especially given that the outcome might have indeed been better than alternatives, even with its terrible cost.

 

Spoiler

While Blackwall did wrong, all of his endings point toward him doing good if you keep him involved with the Inquisition to some degree. He goes to those he's wronged and places himself at their mercy. No one can deny what he did is a crime. However, the scale is paramount. What is worse? Killing one innocent man for gold, or killing a thousand for what one person thinks is right, then killing a thousand more when that doesn't work out? Both are wrong. But one is still worse because the damage is so much more. Just because one crime appears more noble does not make it less a crime.

 

The thing is, with Solas, it isn't just a thousand people. These are whole societies at stake. Intent matters...but it tends to matter most in personal affairs. Whether your intent is a worthy one is also a matter of personal opinion. There must have been many elves, even slaves, in the empire who didn't want to die. The cruel alternative may have been better than death to them. But no one ever asked them what they wanted. Not unlike the other gods of the pantheon, Solas decided what was best for them. And he decided this was his will, whether a better option existed.

 

When the final cost grows too high, no remembers the intent. Just look at how the Dalish revile Fen'harel now, fair or no.

[Miss This or That]

I really love that too, this would be the most anti-climatic reunion scene ever. No dialogue, no comments, he doesn't even fight back and dies with one hit. This is beyond hilarious.

 

What I love most about that scene is the ~powerful music~ in the background.

The poor player must have felt like someone played a terrible prank on them.

[_Lucinia]

Spoiler

For those wondering about the "You're Fen'Harel" dialog option, here goes:

http://tsyele.tumblr...-never-got-this

 

I love his "Well done, thumbs up, liking it, this is my Inqui-chan, I taught her well" subtle expression.

 

So I did miss one line!  lol  Ok glad that was answered for you. 

[electricfish]

Spoiler

Then we can only hope that the Inquisitor, whether romanced or friendly, will help him deal with his guilt, and help him learn to live with what he has done, and the consequences of it all. His complete denial to deal with what he has done is not something I feel definite here, and opens up possibilities of character growth. After all, he's a wonderful character on many aspects, but his flaws are no joke as well, we'll all agree on that. He looks to me like someone who's struggling so much to grow up, and needs a (maybe gigantic) push to do so. My Lavellan would kill him without batting an eye, if the possibility of personal growth turned out to be impossible. She'd save Thedas most and foremost, there's not doubt about that, but she's still convinced that he's worth saving. Definitely venturing in the deep grey area morally, but still not too far to give up.

 

Spoiler

Let me be up front. I respect your optimism and your desire to seek any possible method of redemption before killing Solas. I will likely be addressing a few different viewpoints shared in the thread along with yours, so don't feel as if I'm trying to put you down specifically, if the rest of this post gets to be all over the place.

 

That being said, I disagree with the interpretation on his hesitation to turn back time and how much his guilt over creating the Veil could be used to influence his opinion on staying in this world vs the ancient one. Solas doesn't lack for compassion and (developing very late in the main story)  empathy for other people in current Thedas. His desire to provide some peace for people before he destroys this timeline is admirable, but ultimately doesn't affect his interpretation that this is a terrible future that should never have come to pass, but did because he felt there was no other option at the time. He doesn't hesitate to build personal power or find opportunities to groom the Inquisitor to acquire power themselves if it would benefit his ultimate goal.

 

Mythal is apparently one of his oldest and most respected friends, and yet he takes her power to suit his own ends because he believes it is one of the fastest ways to gain the power required to make sure he succeeds. He could have easily waited several more decades (or centuries) to acquire power by alternative means, and yet he didn't. After Corypheus was defeated, he could have taken a slower path. He's either in a panicked "putting out fires" mode, or he feels that something coming on the horizon would make it impossible for him to succeed. That may be a double dragon blight. That may be the Veil weakening in places where the pantheon are locked away. It could also just as easily be the risk of becoming too close and involved with people in general, to have too much empathy and see everyone as "real" for him to actually push the Nuke It From Orbit ^TM button.

 

Yes, he feels a burden for snuffing out the lives of an entire world so that he may restore the empire and people of HIS time, but ONLY if your Inquisitor is friendly with him. Solas is not quite so caring to an Inquisitor who has built enough disapproval to essentially "prove" to Solas that people in modern Thedas are brutish and unworthy. That close-mindedness, especially regarding his comparison to modern people = Tranquil, is not an alternate path we should ignore when talking about the possibility for redemption. Dread Wolf might have been a moniker given by the pantheon to dehumanize him, but Solas is not afraid to take up that mantle and mindset when he feels it is necessary. Unfortunately, "necessary" for Solas also seems to coincide when he's feeling super emotional in any degree. 

 

That kind of passion, that emotional drive, can be of benefit or detriment depending on how it's implemented. Solas' passions to help slaves be free of their masters and remove their Vallaslin is an example of something beneficial. Killing an agent/friend because they had a slight change in opinion about another faction, but was still in the process of fulfilling the original goal is an example of a detriment. That's panic right there. Panic that Felassen might influence other agents, or worse, defect and start working toward a way to prevent Solas from succeeding. Running to Mythal with his tail between his legs after his orb broke, and then taking her power (it doesn't matter if she knew it was coming) a minute later is also an example of an emotional bad decision.

 

In our upcoming conflict with Solas, what about Inquisitors who are not quite as invested in saving his soul? There WILL be people who will choose the death-is-redemption option, and there will be others who will only try once or twice to give Solas an alternate path to take. Solas made it pretty clear at the end of Trespasser that while he would welcome the chance for a friend/romanced Inquisitor to prove him wrong, he doesn't believe it will happen. Helping alter his view that all people in modern Thedas are equivalent to Tranquil is on an entirely different scale than "hey, don't do that thing which will restore your home, friends, family, and way of life to how it was before the Veil and allow you to try a different way to prevent the pantheon from being dicks."

By virtue of spending a year being immersed in modern Thedas, and actually being forced to interact with a group of people for 1-2 years, he would have already been on the path to seeing people as "real" without our Inquisitor specifically being there as additional influence. 

[midnight tea]

Spoiler

I'm sorry, but I personally don't find "ending the modern world" a viable alternative to the Circle or not having wardens around

 

Spoiler

LOL, if it wasn't for Corypheus meddling, there likely wouldn't be any Gray Wardens or Circles in Thedas anymore. Whether we like it or not, Solas' plans aren't purely theoretical, or even that distant - he did already change the world once. He has either power or knowledge to do it again.

 

 

I did indeed catch that Solas said he would kill mages who hurt others. But again, it's him claiming not to be a god while at the same time taking on a godly burden, that of being an all powerful omnipotent judge. Who watches the watcher?

 

He said that he was deemed as a false god by false gods. Yet even those false gods seemed to have steered the fate of entire, super-powerful and fancy civilization. Hence, god or no, someone yet MAY carry the burden that may seem 'godly' and whether they are or must be watched is probably a question for later.

 

 

 

I prefaced ALL of that with "It's my own personal opinion". If you don't agree with me that's perfectly fine. 

 

... Did I say anything out of line or seemingly emotionally charged  ? If so, I'm sorry - it wasn't my intention.

[BoscoBread]

Spoiler

Why assume it was SOOOOO bad? From the answers from Solas and some codexes it seems that powerful few ruined the lives or countless under them... so what will happen if you recreate the world without those powerful few?

 

There's also a possibility that restoration is better than alternative. We don't really know what's going on with Thedas, but the Veil might yet at some point become impervious, rendering anyone who lives them incapable of emotion or higher thought - life, eventually, will be so degenerated, that only demons would spawn in the Fade that yet manages to hang to the world, feeding the ever-tightening positive feedback loop of horribleness.... though I assume that at that point in history, everything will be Blighted anyway.

 

 

I'm not really sure you assume that without Solas disastrous plan to create the Veil anything would survive intact, when Solas himself claims that Enavuris would eventually destroy the world entirely?

The loss of art and knowledge must've hurt - and we can see how much it hurts Solas, who is all for knowledge, refinement and reaching the peak of one's potential.

 

But what would you prefer? Preserve all the wonderful civilization for a cost of it exploding in a few years, or sacrifice it for a chance of it being slowly rebuilt someday??? 

 

I think the answer is relatively simple.

 

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa - where did I say anything about 'no forgiveness for Blackwall'. Can you show in any of my comments that I said anything that even implies that?

 

 

 

.... Um, no? I wasn't even going in that direction. I never said that genocide is OK with good intentions - I simply said that there's more to Solas' actions than mass genocide and that it's hard to compare it to Blackwall's deeds, when both his intentions and deeds can be easily classified as criminal.

 

That does not mean that I say that he doesn't deserve forgiveness - I'm a big fan of second (sometimes even 3rd or 4th) chances and I always give it to Blackwall. That doesn't change the fact that it's hard to make straightforward comparisons between Blackwall and Solas, simply because the nature of what Solas did is not as easy to categorize.

Spoiler

You don't create the world without them. They are released and he has to deal them. With "plans".  So after chaos another war and with no certainty it will work. Again - I think it's a TERRIBLE plan. The WORST plan.  I think he's delusional.  And that's what's sad to me. 

 

Thank you for correcting me - Again that's why I asked you to clarify - And I actually said what you are saying - there is no 1 to 1 comparison for them. Different crimes. Different people. Different intent. I think both crimes are awful for different reasons.  And if I get enough reason to forgive Solas for what he did -- and I would actually argue that a modern person is in no place to forgive Solas for his past crimes they can merely accept them and move forward -- then I will. Right now...I got nothing.  I still will try though. I'm still romancing him.  This relationship is fascinating. i'm looking forward to see where it goes. 

[laurelinvanyar]

I'm out of likes. Take a everybody. 

 

Spoiler

While Blackwall did wrong, all of his endings point toward him doing good if you keep him involved with the Inquisition to some degree. He goes to those he's wronged and places himself at their mercy. No one can deny what he did is a crime. However, the scale is paramount. What is worse? Killing one innocent man for gold, or killing a thousand for what one person thinks is right, then killing a thousand more when that doesn't work out? Both are wrong. But one is still worse because the damage is so much more. Just because one crime appears more noble does not make it less a crime.

 

The thing is, with Solas, it isn't just a thousand people. These are whole societies at stake. Intent matters...but it tends to matter most in personal affairs. Whether your intent is a worthy one is also a matter of personal opinion. There must have been many elves, even slaves, in the empire who didn't want to die. The cruel alternative may have been better than death to them. But no one ever asked them what they wanted. Not unlike the other gods of the pantheon, Solas decided what was best for them. And he decided this was his will, whether a better option existed.

 

When the final cost grows too high, no remembers the intent. Just look at how the Dalish revile Fen'harel now, fair or no.

 

 

Spoiler

Let me be up front. I respect your optimism and your desire to seek any possible method of redemption before killing Solas. I will likely be addressing a few different viewpoints shared in the thread along with yours, so don't feel as if I'm trying to put you down specifically, if the rest of this post gets to be all over the place.

 

That being said, I disagree with the interpretation on his hesitation to turn back time and how much his guilt over creating the Veil could be used to influence his opinion on staying in this world vs the ancient one. Solas doesn't lack for compassion and (developing very late in the main story)  empathy for other people in current Thedas. His desire to provide some peace for people before he destroys this timeline is admirable, but ultimately doesn't affect his interpretation that this is a terrible future that should never have come to pass, but did because he felt there was no other option at the time. He doesn't hesitate to build personal power or find opportunities to groom the Inquisitor to acquire power themselves if it would benefit his ultimate goal.

 

Mythal is apparently one of his oldest and most respected friends, and yet he takes her power to suit his own ends because he believes it is one of the fastest ways to gain the power required to make sure he succeeds. He could have easily waited several more decades (or centuries) to acquire power by alternative means, and yet he didn't. After Corypheus was defeated, he could have taken a slower path. He's either in a panicked "putting out fires" mode, or he feels that something coming on the horizon would make it impossible for him to succeed. That may be a double dragon blight. That may be the Veil weakening in places where the pantheon are locked away. It could also just as easily be the risk of becoming too close and involved with people in general, to have too much empathy and see everyone as "real" for him to actually push the Nuke It From Orbit ^TM button.

 

Yes, he feels a burden for snuffing out the lives of an entire world so that he may restore the empire and people of HIS time, but ONLY if your Inquisitor is friendly with him. Solas is not quite so caring to an Inquisitor who has built enough disapproval to essentially "prove" to Solas that people in modern Thedas are brutish and unworthy. That close-mindedness, especially regarding his comparison to modern people = Tranquil, is not an alternate path we should ignore when talking about the possibility for redemption. Dread Wolf might have been a moniker given by the pantheon to dehumanize him, but Solas is not afraid to take up that mantle and mindset when he feels it is necessary. Unfortunately, "necessary" for Solas also seems to coincide when he's feeling super emotional in any degree. 

 

That kind of passion, that emotional drive, can be of benefit or detriment depending on how it's implemented. Solas' passions to help slaves be free of their masters and remove their Vallaslin is an example of something beneficial. Killing an agent/friend because they had a slight change in opinion about another faction, but was still in the process of fulfilling the original goal is an example of a detriment. That's panic right there. Panic that Felassen might influence other agents, or worse, defect and start working toward a way to prevent Solas from succeeding. Running to Mythal with his tail between his legs after his orb broke, and then taking her power (it doesn't matter if she knew it was coming) a minute later is also an example of an emotional bad decision.

 

In our upcoming conflict with Solas, what about Inquisitors who are not quite as invested in saving his soul? There WILL be people who will choose the death-is-redemption option, and there will be others who will only try once or twice to give Solas an alternate path to take. Solas made it pretty clear at the end of Trespasser that while he would welcome the chance for a friend/romanced Inquisitor to prove him wrong, he doesn't believe it will happen. Helping alter his view that all people in modern Thedas are equivalent to Tranquil is on an entirely different scale than "hey, don't do that thing which will restore your home, friends, family, and way of life to how it was before the Veil and allow you to try a different way to prevent the pantheon from being dicks."

By virtue of spending a year being immersed in modern Thedas, and actually being forced to interact with a group of people for 1-2 years, he would have already been on the path to seeing people as "real" without our Inquisitor specifically being there as additional influence. 

[AutumnOracle]

Spoiler

If that's his plan, I can only see us stopping him before he can do it, killing him before he can do it, or stopping him and then someone else does it anyway in his stead. We don't know all the players yet.

 

In any case, I really don't like the conclusion I'm getting at and I hope to be proven wrong.

 

I'm so behind!  I'll have to catch up after work but I was really hoping if I threw this out that team optimism would help.  It's normally where I'm at...but the feels are just so bad guys that I'm getting paranoid. I need optimism not hellspiral...  

[Miss This or That]

Spoiler

While Blackwall did wrong, all of his endings point toward him doing good if you keep him involved with the Inquisition to some degree. He goes to those he's wronged and places himself at their mercy. No one can deny what he did is a crime. However, the scale is paramount. What is worse? Killing one innocent man for gold, or killing a thousand for what one person thinks is right, then killing a thousand more when that doesn't work out? Both are wrong. But one is still worse because the damage is so much more. Just because one crime appears more noble does not make it less a crime.

 

The thing is, with Solas, it isn't just a thousand people. These are whole societies at stake. Intent matters...but it tends to matter most in personal affairs. Whether your intent is a worthy one is also a matter of personal opinion. There must have been many elves, even slaves, in the empire who didn't want to die. The cruel alternative may have been better than death to them. But no one ever asked them what they wanted. Not unlike the other gods of the pantheon, Solas decided what was best for them. And he decided this was his will, whether a better option existed.

 

When the final cost grows too high, no remembers the intent. Just look at how the Dalish revile Fen'harel now, fair or no.

 

Spoiler

I firmly believe that Solas is totally someone that thinks "ten are a tragedy, tenthousand just a number". He totally does see the individual person and wants to help them (just see how far he goes for Quizzy, just to take their glowy glowy death hand away), even though he does not think they are really, truly, real - or rather, he cannot see them as real as it would go against his plans and make him feel even more guilty about everything. But once it comes to entire civilisations, all of that compassionate talk flies out the window. He walks the paths that he takes so far down the road that he does not see how many branches they actually have. He believes you should free the mages, but does not really think about the fact that simply freeing them isn't going to help in a world were mages are hunted, harmed or harm themselves. The Grey Wardens aren't heroes to him, someone that probably knows more about the Blights than any other being in Thedas, so they have to go - but he does not see the good things that they do and the faith that they restore in large numbers of the people of Thedas.

 

Worse yet, instead of trying to teach the people what to do in order to restore a piece of what once was through hard work, he figures the only way to achieve anything is to pull the plug and reset everything, start again. He doesn't give Thedas a chance and that is what makes me so angry about his plans. The ends always justify the means to him and though he claims he is no god, he is playing god because he claims to know better.

 

To me, Solas is a being whose plans are fueled by terrible, terrible emotions. It's as if demons are living in his soul; feelings of guilt and fear and dread. He is terribly homesick and lets those feelings cloud his rationale thinking. BUT the way he goes about those emotion fueled plans is utterly rational and without real emotions entirely, because he steels his heart to a cutting edge in order to survive his guilt. That is scary.

 

Plans fueled by emotion, but set into motion through careful rationality are freaking scary.

[drosophila]

I'm so behind!  I'll have to catch up after work but I was really hoping if I threw this out that team optimism would help.  It's normally where I'm at...but the feels are just so bad guys that I'm getting paranoid. I need optimism not hellspiral...  

 

[Cee]

Spoiler

For those wondering about the "You're Fen'Harel" dialog option, here goes:

http://tsyele.tumblr...-never-got-this

 

I love his "Well done, thumbs up, liking it, this is my Inqui-chan, I taught her well" subtle expression.

 

Spoiler

While I would certainly have taken that option if it were there, I feel it's actually kind of....angry...or confrontational, might be a better term, for my Lavellan. The "I came to find you" option suits her more. She was worried, etc. But she would have also put it all together that he was Fen'Harel after everything she saw. So I'm conflicted.

 

I do love his "Well done" reaction though. It kind of reminds me a bit of the proud look he gives you if you tell him to take your vallaslin away.

 

[Moondreamer01]

I'm so behind!  I'll have to catch up after work but I was really hoping if I threw this out that team optimism would help.  It's normally where I'm at...but the feels are just so bad guys that I'm getting paranoid. I need optimism not hellspiral...  

 

Spoiler

If it does help, I think that it doesn't necessarily makes thing worse, at least to me. After all, we already knew he was bent on destroying the world. This is only a way it could happen, and would explain his comment of him not wanting Lavellan to see what he becomes. I still think though that, whatever the means are, it doesn't change the fact that we've been presented with the option to work on saving him from himself, instead of just working on stopping him. From a purely game-wise perspective, it's super interesting is it would make the choice of the player in Trespasser have a real influence on the events of the next game (if truly the inquisitor comes back in some capacity). so the idea of the blood sacrifice doesn't put me in a pit of despair, just makes me wonder about possibilities of where his story-arc can go from here.

[ChuChu]

I'm sure it's been said a million times over, but I do really like how Solas took the insult 'Dread Wolf

Spoiler

' and used it as his badge of pride. The evanuris probably thought of him as a pesky slave-freeing elf not unlike a wolf stealing their sheep.

And the question I'm left with after finding out/confirming theories with this DLC, is... does that mean all the pantheon are terribad people? Aside from Mythal, I mean? And then one has to wonder what the Forgotten Ones were.

Flycam adventures gone awry:

[midnight tea]

Spoiler

While Blackwall did wrong, all of his endings point toward him doing good if you keep him involved with the Inquisition to some degree. He goes to those he's wronged and places himself at their mercy. No one can deny what he did is a crime. However, the scale is paramount. What is worse? Killing one innocent man for gold, or killing a thousand for what one person thinks is right, then killing a thousand more when that doesn't work out? Both are wrong. But one is still worse because the damage is so much more. Just because one crime appears more noble does not make it less a crime.

 

The thing is, with Solas, it isn't just a thousand people. These are whole societies at stake. Intent matters...but it tends to matter most in personal affairs. Whether your intent is a worthy one is also a matter of personal opinion. There must have been many elves, even slaves, in the empire who didn't want to die. The cruel alternative may have been better than death to them. But no one ever asked them what they wanted. Not unlike the other gods of the pantheon, Solas decided what was best for them. And he decided this was his will, whether a better option existed.

 

When the final cost grows too high, no remembers the intent. Just look at how the Dalish revile Fen'harel now, fair or no.

 

Spoiler

We're not just talking about intentions, but motives and alternate solutions or lack thereof. Solas didn't seem to have done this on a whim - it seemed to be a matter of survival for both him and many others. I mean, ask yourself if you wouldn't sacrifice thousands of people, if it means that million others would survive, if you've found yourself in a situation where nothing else worked? Of course, there's a question of how many would actually survive the death of Thedas now, but the truth is we don't yet know many details. It likely isn't as simple as sacrificing entire civilizations for a few ancient elves

 

That itself changes the context of his deeds, compared to ultimately petty crimes of Blackwall (also, please note that I'm not talking about his possible redemption here or him gaining chance for it; I'm not focusing on that). It's just short-sighted to call what Solas is doing a straightforward crime, even if it indeed terrible and must be stopped.

[_Lucinia]

Not sure if I should spoiler this or not, but I will anyways just to be safe.

 

Spoiler

I can't help but feel like there's some truth somewhere we're all missing.  Something just isn't adding up for me.  It's not a matter of being in denial and unwilling to accept Solas's plans.  I never forget that he lies by omission sometimes. 

 

The Evanuris went crazy with power, killed Mythal, and were destroying the world.  So he had to create the Veil to trap them forever, which inadvertently destroyed the world (in a way) anyways.  He needs to save his people, so he's going to remove the Veil, which will also free the Evanuris.  So he did it all for nothing?  o.O

 

I chose a conversation option that said I saw the stuff written about him and know that he's not a bad person (paraphrasing) and he says something about the stories being written in desperation that give him more credit than he deserves.  I'm not sure what point I am trying to reach for.  I'm just throwing random thoughts out there, because I feel like there's some nugget of truth that's dangling in front of our noses. 

 

Or I am just way off base.  I dunno.  I'm open to anything at this point.  I like discussing this stuff.  There's just so many things contradicting each other for me right now.  Is it really, truly as simple as him valuing kindness and compassion because he wants people to have some happiness and comfort before he wipes them out of existence?  I kind of think that Trespasser-Solas has hardened his heart to a cutting edge because that's the only way he can do what he thinks must be done.  Blah I am rambling.  I have a lot rolling around in my head and can't articulate a lot of it right now.

[laurelinvanyar]

Spoiler

LOL, if it wasn't for Corypheus meddling, there likely wouldn't be any Gray Wardens or Circles in Thedas anymore. Whether we like it or not, Solas' plans aren't purely theoretical, or even that distant - he did already change the world once. He has either power or knowledge to do it again.

 

 

He said that he was deemed as a false god by false gods. Yet even those false gods seemed to have steered the fate of entire, super-powerful and fancy civilization. Hence, god or no, someone yet MAY carry the burden that may seem 'godly' and whether they are or must be watched is probably a question for later.

 

 

... Did I say anything out of line or seemingly emotionally charged  ? If so, I'm sorry - it wasn't my intention.

Spoiler

When I say a "viable alternative", I'm talking about "a world state where everything doesn't go up in flames". Burninating the world to me is not a viable alternative to the Circles of magi. No doubt SOLAS thinks it a viable alternative, but the people still living in modern thedas may have cause to disagree. 

 

What is it Solas says to Cassandra about his beliefs? Cause and effect. Wisdom as its own reward, and the inherent right of all free willed people to exist. Here he is going directly against those stated beliefs by playing god with his new plan. Of course, that assumes he DOES see modern thedas people as people. 

 

You said something along the lines of "Please dont tell me_____". I was worried you were taking this exchange a bit personally. If you're cool, I'm cool.

[electricfish]

Spoiler

I firmly believe that Solas is totally someone that thinks "ten are a tragedy, tenthousand just a number". He totally does see the individual person and wants to help them (just see how far he goes for Quizzy, just to take their glowy glowy death hand away), even though he does not think they are really, truly, real - or rather, he cannot see them as real as it would go against his plans and make him feel even more guilty about everything. But once it comes to entire civilisations, all of that compassionate talk flies out the window. He walks the paths that he takes so far down the road that he does not see how many branches they actually have. He believes you should free the mages, but does not really think about the fact that simply freeing them isn't going to help in a world were mages are hunted, harmed or harm themselves. The Grey Wardens aren't heroes to him, someone that probably knows more about the Blights than any other being in Thedas, so they have to go - but he does not see the good things that they do and the faith that they restore in large numbers of the people of Thedas.

 

Worse yet, instead of trying to teach the people what to do in order to restore a piece of what once was through hard work, he figures the only way to achieve anything is to pull the plug and reset everything, start again. He doesn't give Thedas a chance and that is what makes me so angry about his plans. The ends always justify the means to him and though he claims he is no god, he is playing god because he claims to know better.

 

To me, Solas is a being whose plans are fueled by terrible, terrible emotions. It's as if demons are living in his soul; feelings of guilt and fear and dread. He is terribly homesick and lets those feelings cloud his rationale thinking. BUT the way he goes about those emotion fueled plans is utterly rational and without real emotions entirely, because he steels his heart to a cutting edge in order to survive his guilt. That is scary.

 

Plans fueled by emotion, but set into motion through careful rationality are freaking scary.

 

Spoiler

You know what's super sad? Solas probably already tried teaching people how to be like ancient elves, and it got twisted either due to personal feeling or honest misinterpretation. I'm talking about the Qun, by the way. Koslun might have been the prophet, but he either wrote down or was influenced by Solas. 

From what we've heard of individual Qunlat phrases, it sounds a lot like that codex entry in the Shattered Library about finding enlightenment and being able to locate the deepest parts of the Fade.

[midnight tea]

Not sure if I should spoiler this or not, but I will anyways just to be safe.

 

Spoiler

I can't help but feel like there's some truth somewhere we're all missing.  Something just isn't adding up for me.  It's not a matter of being in denial and unwilling to accept Solas's plans.  I never forget that he lies by omission sometimes. 

 

The Evanuris went crazy with power, killed Mythal, and were destroying the world.  So he had to create the Veil to trap them forever, which inadvertently destroyed the world (in a way) anyways.  He needs to save his people, so he's going to remove the Veil, which will also free the Evanuris.  So he did it all for nothing?  o.O

 

[spoiler]

He obviously doesn't tell us everything - LOL, he even tells that to respected Inquisitors: he respects that they're intelligent, hence revealing all his plans or reasons why things have to go one way and not another would be 'too easy'. He also tells Inquisitor that he had/has plans when it comes to Enavuris. There's no way in hell Solas didn't think this through. I also think this linked to his expectation to be changed by the path he's chose into something he pretty obviously detests and doesn't want Lavellan to see.

[drosophila]

Spoiler

 

I have my grim version of optimism: There's no way he wins. I don't think the game is headed towards only one possible conclusion, which is Solas destroying the world. 

 

If TO are right, he might change his mind one day and that would be great.

 

If he does not, he will be defeated, but he already knows what he's doing isn't right. So a part of him at least will take comfort in being defeated. 

 

Soo, the glass wil always be at least 10% full for Solas?

[Moondreamer01]

Spoiler

You know what's super sad? Solas probably already tried teaching people how to be like ancient elves, and it got twisted either due to personal feeling or honest misinterpretation. I'm talking about the Qun, by the way. Koslun might have been the prophet, but he either wrote down or was influenced by Solas. 

From what we've heard of individual Qunlat phrases, it sounds a lot like that codex entry in the Shattered Library about finding enlightenment and being able to locate the deepest parts of the Fade.

Spoiler

I think the Qun might well come from an honest attempt by Solas to explain what is in his mind an egalitarian society without slaves, and people doing what they're best at. A meritocracy in some ways? And then it was completely twisted around into the Qun we know now.

 

 

Also, can I just say how much I love everyone's contribution and point of view in here since I came back from months of hiatus on the forums? You all make sense and I think that together we're bringing sense to an incredibly multifaceted character that's both a tragic antihero and in some way a monster (or threatening to become one if he puts his plan to execution)