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[Solas]

Spoiler

Well, I suppose all the elves who are actually working for him and maybe are even aware what he's planning may also feel hurt if they feel like he sacrificed everything - including them - for a woman he loved. He obviously loves Lavellan deeply, but he won't sacrifice the elvhen people just for his or her personal happiness. It would be way too selfish.

 

Also - would your Lavellan agree to this? If, say, Solas managed to just save her, or sacrificed many elves just to be with her? I don't think mine would ever be comfortable with this.

Spoiler

NO. NOOOOO hell to the no. Her greatest motivation and desire is protecting elves (modern elves) at any cost, personal or downright ruthless to other groups. absolutely not.

[laurelinvanyar]

Spoiler

We were talking about what Solas thinks is a viable alternative, therefore the point still stands

 

We also don't know if, say, the Grey Wardens aren't really making things worse in the end, impending apocalypse or no. I recently finished a playthrough in which I asked Stroud in Skyhold why GW would even do such things as blood rituals or digging to remaining Old Gods. He responded that if it wasn't for his suspicions that it was Corypheus or other malignant force's meddling with the Order, he would be still following his leaders and digging out the Old Gods with the rest of Wardens.

 

Also, Solas tells, maybe even more than once that sometimes there are things that have to be done out of necessity, or that regrettable actions must be taken. Going against his own beliefs is probably a thing he's done more than once, even if he genuinely hates himself for it and thinks of himself as beyond redemption.

 

 

And nah, I hardly ever go very emotional during Internet conversations, though I suppose sometimes my language may imply that I do^^; I'm cool.

I fear we have been like 2 ships passing in the night, dear Midnight Tea. 

 

Spoiler

This entire conversation has been my views on Solas. Meta Views. Not Solas POV views. And I'm personally not comfortable letting Solas cause an extinction event because things "might" happen.

[Moondreamer01]

Spoiler

Well, I suppose all the elves who are actually working for him and maybe are even aware what he's planning may also feel hurt if they feel like he sacrificed everything - including them - for a woman he loved. He obviously loves Lavellan deeply, but he won't sacrifice the elvhen people just for his or her personal happiness. It would be way too selfish.

 

Also - would your Lavellan agree to this? If, say, Solas managed to just save her, or sacrificed many elves just to be with her? I don't think mine would ever be comfortable with this.

Spoiler

My Lavellan wouldn't, for the same reason she wouldn't join him when it meant her friends and those shes worked so hard to save and protect would die. Makes it even more tragic, doesn't it? Neither side can move. Still she hopes that she can show him. She changed his world a first time. She'll do it again.

[Cee]

Spoiler

yeah add to that the way he would have gone about it in his arrogance.. soon after waking up and pre DAI is peak UR NOT PPL time for him

 

Spoiler

 

I went back to The Masked Empire again last night. And Felassan's quote on the last page.

 

"They're stronger than you think, you know."

 

And then Cole's line in Trespasser.

 

"His friend had to die, because he thought they were people. A slow arrow breaks in the sad wolf's jaws."

 

 

[Solas]

Spoiler

screw whole of thedas. I just wanted Lavellan to run off with him. I think he might end up killing himself trying to do what he's doing...damn Solas Not even a brief happy moment. And everyone was so raging at my lavellan when she was all: we have to save Solas!

Spoiler

she's a modern elf, she's not his people, she's not even people to him for a long time, there isn't a place for her in his new world order if his plans involve getting rid of modern elves too. 

[Jeniva]

I didn't bring Cole with me at all in trespasser. Does he have much to say about Solavellan?

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[Mims]

Spoiler

We're in agreement that he has his nasty side, but the Evanuris weren't sealed behind the Veil for the sole purpose of eternal punishment for Mythal's murder.
He explicitly says that he only created the Veil because every alternative was worse, and the Evanuris were doing something that would destroy the world. While he takes a wry moment to note the appropriate punishment, it wasn't designed as punishment. 'The first of my people do not die easily'. By sealing them away, he prevented them from carrying out their plans and making things even worse. He never thought the Veil was a fix-all, he thought it was a desperately ugly solution to an gly problem. It turned out to be even worse than he feared.
What worries me is how he still seems to see it all as a better alternative to what the Evanuris were doing that was going beyond the pale. What on earth were they doing?

 

I'm extremely concerned that his plans might look currently like:

 

Spoiler

- Bring down the veil

- Deal with really angry Evanuris

- ??????

- Take a nap. 

 

Solas, we might need more than a ~four years to figure out how we're going to deal with those guys when there was no other better alternative. 

[myahele]

Spoiler

It's confirmed that the "Pillars of the Earth" are actually Titans.

The Evanuris (including Mythal) all hunted Titans and then harvested their bodies for Lyrium and something else that's unclear. Maybe this something else is related to their god hood?

Additionally, due to doing that something "angry" was let loose in the deep roads that the Elves had to collapse deeproads + caves and seal it with magic. Maybe darkspawn?

If you destroy enough pillars whatever that was being kept up will come tumbling down

 

[MoonDrummer]

Spoiler

What on earth were they doing?

Spoiler

"A thousand nations of the Elven empire descend on you! Our glitter will blot out the sun!"

"Then we will fight in the fade."

[Solas]

Caddius-

Spoiler

something to do with fighting the titans THE VERY PILLARS OF THE EARTH oh COME ON EVANURIS U ****** DICKS  

[Caddius]

I am out of likes, but I agree. Also:

 

Spoiler

Nothing he does will actually repair what he has done in the past. It will not bring back the lives or the civilization he has destroyed. It will just destroy several more civilizations. He scoffs at 'human justice' when they are about to punish murder with another murder. Well, his idea of justice seems to be human justice to the n-th degree. 

 

Also: Did he replace some perfect world with some sort of complete hell? If the old world was so great, why did he have to create the Veil? There was magic, immortality, and great 'technological' achievements (if we consider magic to be part of the technology of Thedas). There was also slavery, vendettas, and wars that tore apart the Empire. 

 

Currently Thedas has circles, wars, stupid mages who corrupt spirits. There's also nugs, people who sing as they unite to fight for their home, people like Mother Giselle who help the refugees, good friends like Varric and Swan Pricesses of Awesome like Josephine. 

 

What will the world that Fen'Harel creates have? We don't even know, but my guess: just as much good and bad as any other world. 

 

Imagine you wake up one day and realize that your modern society had been replaced by something akin from the Dark Ages. Lots of knowledge, technology, and civilization gone, and you might be burned for saying the Earth is round. But people are people, they have love, children, friends, jsut like we have them today.

 

Is your solution going to be: Let's kill all of these people, so that my few surviving fellows can occupy the land and build anew?

 

Or would you go for: This is sad. I will do my best to make as many positive changes as possible. It will be a slow and painful process, and the end result will require more than my own effort, so this world might not end up exactly as I want it to. But I will do my part to improve it.

 

Think of it: He has so much power now. He has rallied agents behind him. If he used all this to change Thedas instead of annihilating it, wouldn't he be able to accomplish a lot?

 

Spoiler

I am also out of likes, as I have been for the last few dozen posts I've wanted to like.
Solas seems to be applying Dark Redcliffe Future Thinking when he should be going for the Javik, King of the Hanar line of thinking.

[midnight tea]

I fear we have been like 2 ships passing in the night, dear Midnight Tea. 

 

Spoiler

This entire conversation has been my views on Solas. Meta Views. Not Solas POV views. And I'm personally not comfortable letting Solas cause an extinction event because things "might" happen.

 

Spoiler

Yes, and in your view Solas appears to have no long-ranging plans or solutions. I simply pointed out that it doesn't seem to be true. Solas does have plans - and in Trespasser we find out that this plans are very definite, and he worked on them for so long and to such detail that he managed to create his own network of agents.

 

That you don't agree with his plans is another issue entirely. I don't want Thedas to burn either... I mean, unless it will be revealed that there really is NO other choice, I suppose 

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[Solas]

Spoiler

What's interesting is that one of the codex entries next to the mural of the slain Titan says that MYTHAL STRUCK DOWN the Pillars of the Earth! SHE is the one who did it in the past!

Spoiler

this plus Solas' comments on how mythal was 'all of this and more' [good mother protector and extreme cray of vengeance] in the ToM + how he's grey so shes grey as well [theyre close friends and statues together often, clearly working together] + flemythals current behavior = why I think even mythal is a dick or semi dick lmao

[S.W.]

So like I said I would, I made a thread praising Bioware for how awesome Trespasser was. If you guys wanna add contributions, and talk about how much you liked it, please feel free! it's here.

 

Spoiler

Even if Mythal had influenced what he'd planned, he's his own agent - they spoke like former comrades, and long-time friends, rather than having a hierarchy of power in their relationship. His respect for Mythal would influence his opinion but he's still responsible for his own actions. And his actions involve ending the world and probably killing a lot of people in the process, except without the threat of immanent destruction in comparison to the first time he did it, so, eh. Not gonna accept his actions as good.

 

I'm going to try to convince him otherwise, because I think he's capable of doing so, but if I can't convince him, he's gonna have to be stopped.

 

Spoiler

I almost think that had Solas' plan gone correctly - Corypheus had died, he'd gained his orb and was at max. power, and the world was restarted without the veil again - I'd almost be more forgiving of that than if he managed the same feat now, two or three years on. At that early point, he was pretty ignorant of the world and how rich and wonderful and well, people-like people are even with the veil in place. Solas would probably be the first to argue that ignorance is no excuse for bad actions - but I find that much more understandable than reluctantly continuing that plan after having your arrogant world-view severely challenged.

[Moondreamer01]

Spoiler

I KNOW, RIGHT!? WHAT WERE THEY DOING AND WHYYY.

Spoiler

I'm out of like, but yes! This! What were they doing that it pushed Solas to such extreme the moment Mythal was killed?

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[Caddius]

Spoiler

"A thousand nations of the Elven empire descend on you! Our glitter will blot out the sun!"

"Then we will fight in the fade."

Can...can we get some fan art of that?

Or a whole series of comic books? 

   

Spoiler

I'm definitely thinking they woke up the Blight or something down in the Abyss. Corrupted a Titan. Something. I'm just not sure how the Old Gods fit into this.
And I don't think Solas would be foolish enough to let the Evanuris run loose while he takes a nap. I do think he might be foolish enough to underestimate just how nasty seven gods that have had nothing to do in their ethereal prison but lift weights and make magic shivs can be.

[Solas]

^ LOL 

Spoiler

I think it's like the LOTR dwarves. the evanuris were mining lyrium and other stuff from titans right? and andruil came back from some void with probablytheblight. lotr dwarves dug too deep and woke up the uh the balrogs or whatever

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=PfhZB7rQ7iA

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[Illyria]

I absolutely agree with you. People respond to different situations in their life differently. There's just one problem.

Spoiler

He's actively working to end the world. We are running out of time to convince him otherwise. By the time he comes around all on his own, thedas may be blown to smithereens.  

 

Spoiler

This is why I fully support operation: get Solas some friends.

 

I'm extremely concerned that his plans might look currently like:

 

Spoiler

- Bring down the veil

- Deal with really angry Evanuris

- ??????

- Take a nap. 

 

Solas, we might need more than a ~four years to figure out how we're going to deal with those guys when there was no other better alternative. 

 

That worked SO well the last time for him, didn't it?

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

Hey thread.

I was wondering if there was someone in here that could please translate some Trespasser dialogue? It would be really apreciated.

Spoiler

"Ma harel lasa" and "Ma lasa banal'ghilana"

[Illyria]

I really wish I had played the Descent (I ran out of time before Trespasser hit) because I have to keep skipping everything that mentions it.

[_Lucinia]

Spoiler

I am also out of likes, as I have been for the last few dozen posts I've wanted to like.
Solas seems to be applying Dark Redcliffe Future Thinking when he should be going for the Javik, King of the Hanar line of thinking.

I have no likes!  But I like what you said!

 

Uhhh I should actually say something of substance.

 

Spoiler

More rambling, and it's probably mostly stupid and/or wrong.

So spirits are his people.  He's said that right?  I sometimes forget the actual lines, just making sure I didn't make it all up.  Anyways, spirits are people, but modern elves are not.  Lavellan is real because she has a marvelous spirit.  But he doesn't want her to be real.  Because he won't admit what the implications are if she is.  Hell he killed Best Elf because he saw Briala as people.  (We're believing that now right?  It was Solas that killed Felassan?)  Where the heck am i going with this line of thought?

I wonder how much they changed Solas from the first draft.  I know they made the romance so he would be more sympathetic (and more sad).  Maybe he is the "Big Bad"... he's the next antagonist.  Maybe they wanted an antagonist that we had more of a personal stake in rather than how Loghain and Meredith ended up.  Well Corypheus too.  Which if that's the case, bravo, because I have never felt so effing conflicted over a character before.  Actual aching pain.  I have cried way too much over this game. 

 

I feel like he skipped right over what happened to Mythal and the Evanuris for a very specific reason.  I can't wait to know what actually happened.  I am really excited for the next game, but the wait will be torture.  I also can't wait for the brilliant folks in here to start figuring stuff out.  Cuz man we were all so right so far.  (Not that it wasn't a bit obvious that this was where it was going.  But still.  So right, and that was fun).  I am sure I will ramble again some more later.