153433 réponses à ce sujet

[Vlk3]

A thought on Solas' plans. Wondering what others think:

Spoiler

What if the world doesn't need to be destroyed to sunder the veil but rather it will be need to be destroyed in order to restore his people? This allows BioWare to sunder the veil, as they seem to want to do, but let us stop him from destroying the world, which can't happen because that's the end of the Dragon Age series.

 

Or he also speaks like he isn't 100% sure everyone is going to need to die. Perhaps he just expects "his people" to go destroying current Thedas after he releases them, or thinks that's a possibility?

 

 

 

Spoiler

Ah, but is it a recorded choice? We've all seen the low approval video, and that choice is not made there. Also, until it shows up in the Keep we won't know for sure.

 

Oh God, I wrote a very long post to answer this and somehow I deleted everything and have to write it again...

So... in short.

Spoiler

My Lavellan offered to join Solas, because she'd want the Elven people restored, She would also like to see the Veil lifted, but I really don't understand why would  this cause everyone to die? There'd be chaos, yes. I imagine suddenly the world would have much more mages than before (by the way, aren't there more and more mages born? Maybe the magic is coming back either way?), I'm not sure what would happen t spirits, but I think that Solas wouldn't just let them all become demons, right?

So this would  be the end of this world indeed, but more metaphorically than literally.

However, lifting the veil is the first step. Elves don't have a homeland right now, they would need to fight with humans for dominance - it;s always the case, it cannot be avoided. The question is, where would that stop? I imagine a brutal war and bloodshed, but what if we can do something that would make it less brutal? Find another way to help the Elves, convince Solas that it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Because I don't think he would resign from lifting the Veil, the world did loose too much because of its creation.

Solas believes that his plans would destroy all Thedas, but I hope he can be proven wrong. That he can restore the Elven glory while not becoming fully mad genocidal villain.

I want the Inquisitor to show him a better path.To make him consider that there are things that don't have to be destroyed in order for all this to work. He can either believe that the world needs to burn completely and cause just that, or he can believe that the world can be changed but not completely destroyed and seek out the ways to do just that.

Either way, he can't forget that... there's still good in him. He can't destroy that part of him that cares about all living things. If he does, all will be lost. But every sacrifice he makes, every person he killed on his path (Best Elf, Flemeth) makes him loose some part of himself, makes him more driven and ruthless, I think he doesn't want Lavellan to join him, because he wants to spare her from sharing this burden and from seeing him like that. That's why Cole wants to remind him what he is. And Inquisitor has to do this as well. While showing him that this world has some potential.

So...let's just destroy Tevinter and Orlais (and Ferelden because Teagan, you're so ugly and stupid, ugh!), make there a new homeland for Elves and lift the Veil. Piece of cake

And I want the hand back.

[Moondreamer01]

Spoiler

Yeah, it's pretty damn ruthless The main problem with trying to defeat Solas by outsmarting him is that it's a race to the bottom of how cruel you can be - you'll end up having to treat your own men as sacrificial pawns. I did think the withdrawal of lots of elves suddenly, as hinted at in the epilogue, implied that he needed lots of people - even if they're just spies - to get what he needs. Doubt he'll go down the blood sacrifice route, though, it's not his area of expertise and I'd hope he hasn't sunk that low.

 

I think, if you're willing to defeat him at any cost, fine, but it's probably going to strengthen his resolve rather than weaken it. I think another approach which I'm quite fond of is trying to shake the resolve of his own soldiers - infiltrate his numbers and sow the seeds of dissent. I wonder if he'd pause if he was being challenged by his own people in high enough numbers? He might justify what happened to Felassan as an anomaly, but if half his agents felt the same, he'd possibly pause to reconsider.

Spoiler

Does he consider them his people, or only pawn at this point would be the main question here. As he's ready to destroy the current world (which would kill a lot of the people fighting on his side) I don't know if swaying his people away would do much to sway Solas himself. It's difficult really, as I'm not sure how to get him to change his mind. All the ideas here make sense. I'm just uncertain if any one of them would be enough in itself. 

 

Drawing him out in some way to talk to him more? But we've done that (if unknowingly) throughout all of Inquisition, and it didn't work. Frankly, I think that story-wise, the gridlock might be resolved by introducing a new threat that would force Solas and the inquisitor (and/or new protagonist) to side together and so to intereact again. This would only work for an Inquisitor that choose the "save Solas" option and not with everyone who wants to kill him, so it might not be the way they'll go with the plot.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Spoiler

Drawing him out in some way to talk to him more? Btu we've done that (if unknowingly) throughout all of Inquisition, and it didn't work. Frankly, I think that story-wise, the gridlock might be resolved by introducing a new threat that would force Solas and the inquisitor (and/or new protagonist) to side together and so to intereact again. This would only work for an Inquisitor that choose the "save Solas" option and not with everyone who wants to kill him, so it might not be the way they'll go with the plot.

 

 

Spoiler

I'd say that if we've had this much impact on Solas unknowingly after a short time (even if he does still want to try his stupid plan), trying to change his mind knowingly might produce more dramatic results  Remember, he was so close to giving it all up for Lavellan, and talking to a friendly quizzy, he basically says he wants them to prove him wrong.  

 

Or maybe I'm just rambling.  Wisdom teeth extraction sucks monkey balls.

[Caddius]

Spoiler

I think the reason lifting the Veil would kill everyone has something to do with how unpleasant entering the Fade physically tends to be for people. The Inquisitor and company survived because of the Anchor. Without it, it seems people would suffer something like Corypheus does in his presumable death. Ripped to shreds.
The Seven Magisters managed it with copious amounts of blood magic and rituals, but it's not clear how much of the crap that happened was because they were in the Fade physically and how much was that they were in the Black City. What's really interesting is that they had to enter it physically to be able to enter the City. Almost like it was only mean to be accessible back when people existed naturally in the Fade...
Hmm. Thoughts?

[Moondreamer01]

@Sable Rhapsody

 

Spoiler

Ewww, I empathize. Wisdom teeth extraction suck I hope you feel better soon. Else, I hope you're right about the knowingly part. I really hope so. Solas has blinders on at the moment, as deep as he is in his pit of despair. We can hope to show him the beauties of the present world, up to a point, but he will also need to arrive at his own conclusion. Love and friendship will help but in the end he'll also need to help himself.

 

@Caddius

 

Spoiler

I think you got it right about what would happen with dropping the veil. I was struggling about how it would destroy the world, but it's said clearly the anchor was the only reason the Inquisitor and friend could physically enter the fade and not get desintegrated. The opening of the veil might well do the same thing on a massive scale, before the new world balanced itself out again.

 

Wonder if anyone staying in a place like the crossroad could survive such a thing. It's apart from both the Fade and Thedas after all. Might be how Solas plans on a few surviving. Perhaps.

[_Lucinia]

I don't remember who, but I'm pretty sure it was on this thread, said that making Cole human made them think of optimism for the future, that it was moving forward instead of back toward the status quo. Up until then, I'd always agreed with Solas and kept him a spirit. But, what they said and how it relates to Solas' guilt about his own past convinced me to change in my cannon playthrough. I don't regret my choice, as much as I like Cole-Spirit.

 

It's the one choice in this game that I continue to struggle with.  Both sides really are valid.  I see both.  I most often choose Spirit, however.  For me it doesn't really have all that much to do with agreeing with Solas. 

Spoiler

And in light of Trespasser, I question even harder which one I want.  I feel deep down that he's better as a spirit, but then him going back to the Fade in the end leaves me so gutted and sad.

  I like the thought that making him human is being optimistic for the future and showing Solas that things can change, and for the better.  He seems happier as a human.  But then I feel that sometimes being happier isn't always being truer to who you are.  Cole always wanted to be accepted as he is.  See, I still can't firmly choose one over the other.  Both sides are correct. 

[S.W.]

Spoiler

Does he consider them his people, or only pawn at this point would be the main question here. As he's ready to destroy the current world (which would kill a lot of the people fighting on his side) I don't know if swaying his people away would do much to sway Solas himself. It's difficult really, as I'm not sure how to get him to change his mind. All the ideas here make sense. I'm just uncertain if any one of them would be enough in itself. 

 

Drawing him out in some way to talk to him more? But we've done that (if unknowingly) throughout all of Inquisition, and it didn't work. Frankly, I think that story-wise, the gridlock might be resolved by introducing a new threat that would force Solas and the inquisitor (and/or new protagonist) to side together and so to intereact again. This would only work for an Inquisitor that choose the "save Solas" option and not with everyone who wants to kill him, so it might not be the way they'll go with the plot.

 

Spoiler

perhaps the wildcard here would be the other Evanuris?

 

whilst I'm sure Solas has drawn plans up to deal with them, you guys know what Solas is like with plans. pfft.

 

I think the pantheon could really throw a spanner in the works. they're powerful, smart, and ruthless, and probably also have some limited pull on what happens. If they, or one of their prominent agents, manage to enter the playing field, free themselves in some weakened form, then I think that would be enough for Solas and the Inquisition to enter into an alliance.

 

That said, whilst I want more opportunity to get to know the pantheon, I am slightly tired of reawakened ancients as primary antagonists - which is partially why I hope the qunari step up their game, or some new faction enters the field, enough to present a threat to both Solas' and the Inquisition's plans. I'd rather meet them in different contexts. Even if they just entered as a late-game twist, I'd be really pleased.

[Vlk3]

@ Caddius

Spoiler

 
I think that it wouldn't be the same as entering the Fade. Entering the Fade is almost impossible because of the Veil. Before its creation, the Fade and the physical world somehow coexisted. I'm not fully sure how did that work, but the thing Solas says at the beggining of the game? He talked about a world without the Veil. It didn't sound bad, it was maybe more dangerus but also more...beautiful. I think that what makes the Fade so dangerous now is it's separation from the physical world.

Not sure if the spoiler is necessary here, it's just some theories about the Fade and the Veil.

[Moondreamer01]

@ Caddius

Spoiler

 
I think that it wouldn't be the same as entering the Fade. Entering the Fade is almost impossible because of the Veil. Before its creation, the Fade and the physical world somehow coexisted. I'm not fully sure how did that work, but the thing Solas says at the beggining of the game? He talked about a world without the Veil. It didn't sound bad, it was maybe more dangerus but also more...beautiful. I think that what makes the Fade so dangerous now is it's separation from the physical world.

Not sure if the spoiler is necessary here, it's just some theories about the Fade and the Veil.

Spoiler

What would destroy people isn't the fade itself. As you said the danger comes from the veil, so I think this tearing of the veil would be devastating. If it was only chaos brought by the reunification of both planes that was the problem, I could be mostly ok with it. Huge casulaties but people are resilient and in the end, the problem can be dealt with. But, I have a feeling that Solas is talking of destruction on a much more... fondamental level, if that makes sense? And it's what make it so important to stop his plan.

[Sable Rhapsody]

@Sable Rhapsody

 

Spoiler

Ewww, I empathize. Wisdom teeth extraction suck I hope you feel better soon. Else, I hope you're right about the knowingly part. I really hope so. Solas has blinders on at the moment, as deep as he is in his pit of despair. We can hope to show him the beauties of the present world, up to a point, but he will also need to arrive at his own conclusion. Love and friendship will help but in the end he'll also need to help himself.

 

 

Thanks  Today is smoothie day, but I can't really complain about chocolate smoothies!

 

Spoiler

It's Hawke of all people who gives us the following line: "You can't change people unless they want to change."  (Or something like to that.)  While the irony's enough to make my head spin, Hawke's right.  Quizzy can only do so much if Solas, deep down, doesn't want to change.

 

Here's the thing.  I think he does.  I think he just feels like he can't because he's placed so much weight on his own shoulders, carrying the burden of the Dread Wolf.  He wants friend!quizzy to prove him wrong.  He wishes romanced Lavellan's love could save him.  He just needs a push.  Maybe a big one off a cliff, but still  

[Avejajed]

Listen in the hilarious hidden scene with low approval with Solas, he says

Spoiler

I intend to restore them. In doing so your world will most likely be destroyed. MOST LIKELY. NOT FOR SURE. Dont mind me I want a game without the veil but without everyone dead.

I am less eloquent after work on a Friday.

[Moondreamer01]

Thanks  Today is smoothie day, but I can't really complain about chocolate smoothies!

 

Spoiler

It's Hawke of all people who gives us the following line: "You can't change people unless they want to change."  (Or something like to that.)  While the irony's enough to make my head spin, Hawke's right.  Quizzy can only do so much if Solas, deep down, doesn't want to change.

 

Here's the thing.  I think he does.  I think he just feels like he can't because he's placed so much weight on his own shoulders, carrying the burden of the Dread Wolf.  He wants friend!quizzy to prove him wrong.  He wishes romanced Lavellan's love could save him.  He just needs a push.  Maybe a big one off a cliff, but still  

I don't have likes anymore, so have a  instead.

[Solas]

5000 pgs here we come ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[_Lucinia]

Listen in the hilarious hidden scene with low approval with Solas, he says

Spoiler

I intend to restore them. In doing so your world will most likely be destroyed. MOST LIKELY. NOT FOR SURE. Dont mind me I want a game without the veil but without everyone dead.

I am less eloquent after work on a Friday.

 

Spoiler

I also want to play a game where there is no Veil and all the magic comes back.  The prospect excites me to no end.  Solas is wrong sometimes.  What if he's wrong about it destroying the world.  Or what if he was just using selective phrasing again.  That guy always leaves me going over every line of dialogue looking for a potential hidden meaning. 

 

Heck we don't even know what the Evanuris were trying to do that was so darned bad.  Solas's motivations, no matter how much he revealed, are still a mystery without all the pieces of this complex puzzle.

Man, we're going to be in theory mode foreverrrrrrr.  And I love it.

[Vlk3]

Spoiler

What would destroy people isn't the fade itself. As you said the danger comes from the veil, so I think this tearing of the veil would be devastating. If it was only chaos brought by the reunification of both planes that was the problem, I could be mostly ok with it. Huge casulaties but people are resilient and in the end, the problem can be dealt with. But, I have a feeling that Solas is talking of destruction on a much more... fondamental level, if that makes sense? And it's what make it so important to stop his plan.

Spoiler

 

I fear that might be the case, too, but I just keep hoping that Solas doesnt' know everything.

This would change everything, the whole world and that is something to fear... Remember what Morrigan said?

Change is coming to the world. Many fear change and will fight it with every fiber of their being. But sometimes, change is what they need the most. Sometimes, change is what sets them free.

Somehow this makes me hopeful.

I know that Morrigan doesn't know everything, but maybe it means that it won't be that bad. That it doesn't have to be.

 

[Vlk3]

 

5000 pgs here we come ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

 

Just imagine how many pages there will be by the time DA:4 is released...



Edit...sorry for 2 posts one after another I thought there would be something before I write it.


Regarding the Elven Gods

 

Spoiler

I think they wanted to be more powerful so they reached for Blight magic and that's how they unleashed it on th world. I'm almost 100% sure of that.

 

Edit2: Mythal tried to stop them (Remember Andruil?) and that's why she was killed.

[MoonDrummer]

Spoiler

perhaps the wildcard here would be the other Evanuris?

 

whilst I'm sure Solas has drawn plans up to deal with them, you guys know what Solas is like with plans. pfft.

 

I think the pantheon could really throw a spanner in the works. they're powerful, smart, and ruthless, and probably also have some limited pull on what happens. If they, or one of their prominent agents, manage to enter the playing field, free themselves in some weakened form, then I think that would be enough for Solas and the Inquisition to enter into an alliance.

 

That said, whilst I want more opportunity to get to know the pantheon, I am slightly tired of reawakened ancients as primary antagonists - which is partially why I hope the qunari step up their game, or some new faction enters the field, enough to present a threat to both Solas' and the Inquisition's plans. I'd rather meet them in different contexts. Even if they just entered as a late-game twist, I'd be really pleased.

Spoiler

If the pantheon shows up I hope that they don't act as allies or if they broke into smaller factions with different goals. I've said before that I'd like to be able to ally with some (June the almighty) to strike down others. I'm not sure this is likely and after Trespasser I doubt they will be released at all. :/

 

[S.W.]

THOUGHT:

Spoiler

what if the Inquisitor manages to reach Solas just before the final stage of his grand plan begins. The Inquisitor either then kills Solas somehow, or convinces Solas that he's done a bad, depending on your approach in the DLC. However, even if you manage to convince Solas 'no, this is a really bad idea', the plan goes ahead anyway because you're just too damn late.

 

... and in the end nobody dies.

it's completely fine.

ultimate anticlimax.

 

I really really really really wanna play a dragon age game in a world without the veil. Reaaaallly wanna.

[Moondreamer01]

THOUGHT:

Spoiler

what if the Inquisitor manages to reach Solas just before the final stage of his grand plan begins. The Inquisitor either then kills Solas somehow, or convinces Solas that he's done a bad, depending on your approach in the DLC. However, even if you manage to convince Solas 'no, this is a really bad idea', the plan goes ahead anyway because you're just too damn late.

 

... and in the end nobody dies.

it's completely fine.

ultimate anticlimax.

 

I really really really really wanna play a dragon age game in a world without the veil. Reaaaallly wanna.

Spoiler

lol. Just imagine. There's this big dramatic scene. The music is soaring. The veil is tearing. And then...

 

 

...

 

 

...

 

 

*cricket, cricket*

 

 

Nothing. Everything is just fine.

 

The thought makes me laugh. Bioware the ultimate troll. Can you imagine the firestorm in the forum?

[Kittn]

Spoiler

How do you think we can go about combatting the DW?

Disbanded or not, trying to convince or stop, we'll have to take strategic steps to deal with him. We know we should be wary of his spies, recruit ppl he won't know and try to act in a way he won't predict. What then? Considering his agents and power he displays in dlc.

I think we'll be needing a double agent for a start, and.. people who can nullify magic [Seekers].

Good ideas~ Some to add:

Spoiler

We have one advantage over Solas. Maybe only one, but its a big one. This is our world. Our time. Solas might know us, but we know present day Tevinter, and may have a contact there. We know the wardens, and have a contact there. We know the Antivan Crows.

!

Wouldn't it be wild if the person-Solas-doesn't-know that our Inquisitor ends up finding is an Antivan Crow? And we get to play one? Yes,please! Who better to infiltrate an inner group than a trained assassin with a dead sexy accent? Ones that operate on rules Solas may be unfamiliar with. If everything he knows comes from the Fade, their unpredictable nature would make it hard for him to detect their purpose. And even if he did, he's as likely to dismiss their purpose as quickly as he did the Wardens. Also, if we're the ones at the wheel, they are guaranteed to be exceptional. Did I mention the accent?

Either way, Antiva! Yanno, I'm beginning to think I have developed unhealthy obsession with a fictional country that we've never even visited in game. Fear not, it doesn't extend to the smell of a tanneries, though. Yuck.

I like the double agent idea. Finding Solas is the first step to stopping him. The second step is to change his mind. But since there are two groups approaching him - those that want to murder him, and those that want to make out with him - I'm still thinking we won't actually be able to prevent what he's started.

Something that he probably already started before he even met us, and we changed everything. But couldn't.

I think the Veil will fall. I figure we deal with Solas after that. If the Evanuris don't get to him first...

[Uirebhiril]

I you guys.

 

Had a really weird thought about things involving the epilogue slides...

 

Spoiler

All these elves are disappearing... perhaps answering a call to arms? Thinking they will be fighting to make difference, maybe? But... what was another big occasion where a s*it-ton of elves were all gathered together, and what happened then? Yeah, they were slaughtered and their blood used to tear the Veil so magisters could enter the golden city.

 

 

I hope not. Maybe it's not even him they're gathering to. I guess we'll see?

 

But I still think it would have been interesting if what Solas is doing is because it was a necessary thing, and not the apparent nutjob plan he's putting in the works. How far can we struggle with that idea as the protagonist that the apparent bad guy really is working with the least bad option but still knowing it's baaad? Maybe we'll find that's still the case later and it isn't the old betrayer/redemption story, but for right now? Sheesh. Ouch.

[Miss This or That]

Spoiler

Imagine Lavellan standing before the Evanuris, arm(s) spread out, head held high. "Nope! I'M going to crack this egghead, NOT you lunatics!" Meanwhile, Solas is lying on the ground, exhausted from his master plan and does not know if he'd rather deal with the ancient elven gods or his angry girlfriend.

[Moondreamer01]

I you guys.

 

Had a really weird thought about things involving the epilogue slides...

 

Spoiler

All these elves are disappearing... perhaps answering a call to arms? Thinking they will be fighting to make difference, maybe? But... what was another big occasion where a s*it-ton of elves were all gathered together, and what happened then? Yeah, they were slaughtered and their blood used to tear the Veil so magisters could enter the golden city.

 

 

I hope not. Maybe it's not even him they're gathering to. I guess we'll see?

 

But I still think it would have been interesting if what Solas is doing is because it was a necessary thing, and not the apparent nutjob plan he's putting in the works. How far can we struggle with that idea as the protagonist that the apparent bad guy really is working with the least bad option but still knowing it's baaad? Maybe we'll find that's still the case later and it isn't the old betrayer/redemption story, but for right now? Sheesh. Ouch.

Spoiler

A few of us juggled with the idea of the massive blood sacrifice yesterday. Hope we're wrong though, as it would truly be horrible. Still, it's not impossible that that's his really bad plan and the reason he doesn't want Lavellan to "see what he becomes".

 

Urgh, I'm making myself sad again.

[drosophila]

Spoiler

lol. Just imagine. There's this big dramatic scene. The music is soaring. The veil is tearing. And then...


...


...


*cricket, cricket*


Nothing. Everything is just fine.

The thought makes me laugh. Bioware the ultimate troll. Can you imagine the firestorm in the forum?

Spoiler

I actually imagine a giant boom as the veil is destroyed, knocking down everyone to the ground. Then they get up, look around, and everything looks different, very magical and fade-y. The Dread Wolf in his fascinated voice says, "The Veil is gone." What do we do now? See you in the next game.

I don't think it will be anticlimactic, because afterwards there would be so much to do to prevent chaos. The Chantry will be freaking out, "Omg, magic and demons everywhere, omg!" The evanuris will be out and they will be cranky. People who never had magic will suddenly be capable of it, so it will be as if magic is manifesting for the first time in everyone all at once. (From what I gather doing magic for the first time is usually not a happy event.) Tevinter won't have so many issues with the magic, but suddenly all the elven slaves will be so much more powerful. There's material for an entire game, if not several with this.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Spoiler

Imagine Lavellan standing before the Evanuris, arm(s) spread out, head high. "Nope! I'M going to crack this egghead, NOT you lunatics!" Meanwhile, Solas is lying on the ground, exhausted from his master plan and does not know if he'd rather deal with the ancient elven gods or his angry girlfriend.

 

Spoiler

And then Lavellan is mortally wounded defending him from the Evanuris, and dies in his arms.  

 

(SORRY NOT SORRY)