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[Uirebhiril]

My new Solas theory...help!

Trespasser SPOILERS

Spoiler

So, in Trespasser Cole had some interesting things to say, which I am only now really processing. He alludes to Solas leaving a scar on his face when he removed his own vallaslin for example. He also says somethings like "he didn't want a body, but she asked him to come" and "he wanted to give wisdom not orders." These things in conjunction with a vanilla game banter where Solas thanks Cole for reminding him that he IS NOT A SPIRIT makes me think that SOLAS IS A SPIRIT...or rather was.

 

We are encouraged to make judgments in this game about spirits...if they are people, if Cole should be more spirit like or human, if we should save Wisdom or kill Pride...I'm afraid in the end we'll have to either let the spirit that is Solas return to the fade or kill the demon he becomes when he does his evil thing. He'll even tell Lavellan that he doesn not want her to see what he becomes. I suppose one of those horribly sad endings would technically be closure for Lavellan (Weekes says we'll get closure/a resolution as long as they make another game), but it sounds like there won't be any possible "happy" ending...unless Lavellan actually does possess a "rare and marvelous spirit." Mass Effect was all about synthetics vs organics and now Dragon Age is all about mortals vs spirits (or non mages vs mages). Bioware likes to stick with similar overarching themes it seems. What do you all think?

 

Spoiler

I actually kind of like this idea. People who are against him and just want to murderknife him would get their fight, but possibly at the end he'd revert to who he was and could manifest again some other time like Wisdom could. In a romance or friendship, you can help to release him back to the Fade, or perhaps he can become fully elven like Cole can human. Intriguing.

 

How that would work in with the plans and how they would come to pass -- because there'd have to be a setup for another game -- is still another matter. To say nothing of Mythal hanging around somewhere. I'm sure she has her own desires for things.

[Ardent Blossom]

Oh did PWeekes say that? What else has he said?

 

I've been dialed out this week trying to avoid spoilers. 

 

But, also I like your theory. 

I HATE my theory, but thanks for liking it I guess.

Here's the twitter Weekes convo:

Spoiler

Floriane L. ‏@EnaDShep Sep 9

let's try: @PatrickWeekes will we ever get some sort of closure for solavellan in the future - in good or bad?

 

3 retweets 15 favorites

 

 

 

Patrick Weekes ‏@PatrickWeekes Sep 9

@EnaDShep To be clear, I hope so, and I hope Trespasser made that clear. But mine is not to promise.

 

10 retweets 98 favorites

 

1. Floriane L. ‏@EnaDShep Sep 9

   @PatrickWeekes Thank you SO MUCH for answering, really! Thank you ! It put my mind at ease #solaspositivity

    

   0 retweets 2 favorites

    
2. Pride o'the Wee Folk ‏@AngelaAndFriend Sep 9

   @enadshep @patrickweekes Ditto the thanks. It was fairly clear, but the whole new game=new protagonist thing raised doubt.

    

   • Favorite 1
   • 

   4:54 PM - 9 Sep 2015 ·

[Avejajed]

Stopping in after finishing my first, Solavellan playthrough... because... well...

Spoiler

I had to share my grief. Seriously? I really thought there was more hope than that. They let him be the bad guy after all?? After all that?

I thought... Well, so much of it was what I expected, but I never thought he actually intended to be the villain.

And... he actually left me for good!

Too much sadness.



As expected: not satisfied; more despondent than intrigued. My boyfriend will be the Big Bad, and I'll be an NPC in the next game.

Spoiler

First off, there is always hope. Solas is redeemable I think, in the right circumstance, by the right person. I think his path leads to death either, way, though I hope it is through self-sacrifice and the ability to forgive himself.

I think he hopes that you can, again, prove him wrong. He desperately wishes there was another way. Hopefully through friendship, love and loyalty he can find it.

And I hope they can forgive him. He has so much guilt and short-sightedness, he feels he only has this one path. All he sees is his terrible mistakw that cost him everything. He thinks if he reverses it he will be able to give the people he so loved what he took from them. Even if it was for their own protection.

Love and forgiveness is his path from the darkness.

I need wine.

[midnight tea]

My new Solas theory...help!

Trespasser SPOILERS

Spoiler

So, in Trespasser Cole had some interesting things to say, which I am only now really processing. He alludes to Solas leaving a scar on his face when he removed his own vallaslin for example. He also says somethings like "he didn't want a body, but she asked him to come" and "he wanted to give wisdom not orders." These things in conjunction with a vanilla game banter where Solas thanks Cole for reminding him that he IS NOT A SPIRIT makes me think that SOLAS IS A SPIRIT...or rather was.

 

We are encouraged to make judgments in this game about spirits...if they are people, if Cole should be more spirit like or human, if we should save Wisdom or kill Pride...I'm afraid in the end we'll have to either let the spirit that is Solas return to the fade or kill the demon he becomes when he does his evil thing. He'll even tell Lavellan that he doesn not want her to see what he becomes. I suppose one of those horribly sad endings would technically be closure for Lavellan (Weekes says we'll get closure/a resolution as long as they make another game), but it sounds like there won't be any possible "happy" ending...unless Lavellan actually does possess a "rare and marvelous spirit." Mass Effect was all about synthetics vs organics and now Dragon Age is all about mortals vs spirits (or non mages vs mages). Bioware likes to stick with similar overarching themes it seems. What do you all think?

 

Spoiler

Mortals ARE spirits. Or more like - they have a spirit. Each one living being has, it seems - it's how they all began. This is why Solas tells Lavellan that 'she has a rare and marvelous spirit'.

 

Elves are just closer to that; they're beings closer to the Fade - kinda like Cole: beings with something of a nature that is caught between well... "spiritual" and physical. Therefore I'm not sure Solas will just turn to a simple demon. He thinks that he will change - and that change will be for worse: maybe even much worse than what we suspect, but I think it may be closer to what Enavuris became... whatever they became. He'll likely forget himself and his principles, or at least he's expecting to.

 

This is why I think Cole intends to remind him who he is when the time is right. It might as well be the reason why he keeps Lavellan away. He wants her to remember him as he was, before he loses himself. Aside from Cole, she (and befriended Inquisitor, I suppose) is likely one of the few who would remember him as "Solas" and not as "Dread Wolf". Question is whether it will come to play later.

[Moondreamer01]

ohhhh, super interesting theory, straight from tumblr, concerning Briala's eluvians :

 

Spoiler

@In the end conversation in Trespasser, Solas mentions having to override the magic of Briala’s eluvians personally. What if he did that at Halamshiral (Wicked Hearts quest)! During that quest, in the very beginning you talk to Cullen, he mentions Solas is already gone inside (if you listed Solas as one of the companions to take in) and you cannot find him until after the Halamshiral Introductions are done. When you do find him, he’s happy and slightly drunk.

I think he went in early while Briala is distracted with politics and took the eluvians then. She wouldn’t even know they were gone from her until after the party. And that meant the whole night was a success no matter what the Inquisitor does, though he’ll still care about that. Hence, the servants being happy to refill his glass. The servants who could also have been his spies even then. Briala would not want to admit their loss, so she’d keep it to herself.

Even if you don’t recruit him, it’s canon that everyone goes to the party and does what they would otherwise do. Dorian mentions the despair ham, varric is mad at his publisher etc.

 

Source : http://sulahnenasali...-eluvians#notes

[Mims]

Hard to say what is going on with Solas.

 

Spoiler

On one hand, we have plenty of hints that he could be a spirit. He fits the profile perfectly- embodying wisdom, but also destructive pride. We know that spirits existed with the ancient elves as equal members and lived among them. At least one of the evanuris has special abilities typically reserved for spirits- she's killed, but able to reform herself. She's also able to bind herself to a mortal being.

 

Solas is portrayed as a wolf and we know that spirits are not bound to one form, and often pick up animal shape first. 

 

But on the other- Solas claims to be mortal, and mentions that he envies spirits. Cole also remarks excitedly that 'what he [Cole] is isn't wrong' when Cole finds out that spirits took mortal forms more regularly back in ancient times. If Solas was also a spirit, Cole would already know that there wasn't anything wrong with him. 

 

It is curious though. Maybe Solas is some sort of first generation elf x spirit mortal? 

 

I'm not sure where I am going with this rambling, but I do think the Jaws of Hakkon DLC fits somewhere into all of this. It seemed important knowledge to find out that over time, Avaar spirit gods would grow mad and need to be killed so that they could be safely reborn. 

[R2s Muse]

 

I HATE my theory, but thanks for liking it I guess.

Here's the twitter Weekes convo:

Spoiler

Floriane L. ‏@EnaDShep Sep 9

let's try: @PatrickWeekes will we ever get some sort of closure for solavellan in the future - in good or bad?

 

3 retweets 15 favorites

 

 

 

Patrick Weekes ‏@PatrickWeekes Sep 9

@EnaDShep To be clear, I hope so, and I hope Trespasser made that clear. But mine is not to promise.

 

10 retweets 98 favorites

 

1. Floriane L. ‏@EnaDShep Sep 9

   @PatrickWeekes Thank you SO MUCH for answering, really! Thank you ! It put my mind at ease #solaspositivity

    

   0 retweets 2 favorites

    
2. Pride o'the Wee Folk ‏@AngelaAndFriend Sep 9

   @enadshep @patrickweekes Ditto the thanks. It was fairly clear, but the whole new game=new protagonist thing raised doubt.

    

   • Favorite 1
   • 

   4:54 PM - 9 Sep 2015 ·

 

Ah, thanks for those! And, what I meant was ...

 

Spoiler

I also could see him having been a spirit, but I don't really worry about him heading back to the Fade. I guess I don't see him succeeding in the tearing down the Veil and mixing the real and dream worlds, but he's been in ours so long I think they could find a plausible story for him to stay. But then... apparently I expect to much positivity in his story. sniff sniff.

[Moondreamer01]

@Midnight tea and @Mims. Out of likes again, so have all the     

[Mims]

ohhhh, super interesting theory, straight from tumblr, concerning Briala's eluvians :

 

Spoiler

@In the end conversation in Trespasser, Solas mentions having to override the magic of Briala’s eluvians personally. What if he did that at Halamshiral (Wicked Hearts quest)! During that quest, in the very beginning you talk to Cullen, he mentions Solas is already gone inside (if you listed Solas as one of the companions to take in) and you cannot find him until after the Halamshiral Introductions are done. When you do find him, he’s happy and slightly drunk.

I think he went in early while Briala is distracted with politics and took the eluvians then. She wouldn’t even know they were gone from her until after the party. And that meant the whole night was a success no matter what the Inquisitor does, though he’ll still care about that. Hence, the servants being happy to refill his glass. The servants who could also have been his spies even then. Briala would not want to admit their loss, so she’d keep it to herself.

Even if you don’t recruit him, it’s canon that everyone goes to the party and does what they would otherwise do. Dorian mentions the despair ham, varric is mad at his publisher etc.

 

Source : http://sulahnenasali...-eluvians#notes

 

Haha. Complete mission, get drunk. 

 

Spoiler

Some guilt about Felassan, maybe? 

 

Also worth mentioning that if you recruit Michel de Chevin and assign him to study eluvians, Solas is the one who he is paired with to research them. 

[Ardent Blossom]

Spoiler

Mortals ARE spirits. Or more like - they have a spirit. Each one living being has, it seems - it's how they all began. This is why Solas tells Lavellan that 'she has a rare and marvelous spirit'.

 

Elves are just closer to that; they're beings closer to the Fade - kinda like like Cole: beings with something of a nature that is caught between well... "spiritual" and physical. Therefore I'm not sure Solas will just turn to a simple demon. He thinks that he will change - and that change will be for worse: maybe even much worse than what we suspect, but I think it may be closer to what Enavuris became... whatever they became. He'll likely forget himself and his principles, or at least he's expecting to.

 

This is why I think Cole intends to remind him who he is when the time is right. It might as well be the reason why he keeps Lavellan away. He wants her to remember him as he was, before he loses himself. Aside from Cole, she (and befriended Inquisitor, I suppose) is likely one of the few who would remember him as "Solas" and not as "Dread Wolf". Question is whether it will come to play later.

Thanks for kinda debunking me. I want to be wrong here.

Spoiler

However, I didn't realize all mortals were meant to be/have spirits in Dragon Age...especially the dwarves. If anyone can point me at codex entries that'd be splendid.

[R2s Muse]

Spoiler

First off, there is always hope. Solas is redeemable I think, in the right circumstance, by the right person. I think his path leads to death either, way, though I hope it is through self-sacrifice and the ability to forgive himself.

I think he hopes that you can, again, prove him wrong. He desperately wishes there was another way. Hopefully through friendship, love and loyalty he can find it.

And I hope they can forgive him. He has so much guilt and short-sightedness, he feels he only has this one path. All he sees is his terrible mistakw that cost him everything. He thinks if he reverses it he will be able to give the people he so loved what he took from them. Even if it was for their own protection.

Love and forgiveness is his path from the darkness.

I need wine.

I agree. 

 

Spoiler

They made him very sympathetic and regretful. And yet... resolute. I'm still reeling from the fact that he's preparing to kill me and everyone I love. I mean. Wow. My boyfriend is planning on killing me. That's sure not what I was expecting to get out of my romance. 

 

I do think he can be redeemed. I just have a hard time imagining how that can possibly happen now. How can my one-armed IQ be a real player in the next game? 

 

Sigh. Weekes claiming we'll get resolution is promising. But I can't help but imagine that it means I'll be reading about my relationship in a War Table missive.

 

Oh man, I'm just making myself sad again. :pours herself some of Avejaded's wine: 

 

[Sable Rhapsody]

Spoiler

But then... apparently I expect to much positivity in his story. sniff sniff.

 

Spoiler

Happiness and rainbows, no.  I don't expect that.  But positivity, yes.

 

The Power of Friendship is a universal trope in BioWare's games, and that's a good thing.  It's built into the gameplay: befriending NPCs is almost always mechanically better than antagonizing them.  It's built into the story: you get more content out by earning the respect and love of others.  And it ties the two together, making the gameplay stronger and more varied for each person you recruit.  

 

I think that trend will carry through Solas's story too.  Friendship was such a strong theme in Trespasser; I can't imagine they'd ditch it.

[Ardent Blossom]

I agree. 

 

Spoiler

They made him very sympathetic and regretful. And yet... resolute. I'm still reeling from the fact that he's preparing to kill me and everyone I love. I mean. Wow. My boyfriend is planning on killing me. That's sure not what I was expecting to get out of my romance. 

 

I do think he can be redeemed. I just have a hard time imagining how that can possibly happen now. How can my one-armed IQ be a real player in the next game? 

 

Sigh. Weekes claiming we'll get resolution is promising. But I can't help but imagine that it means I'll be reading about my relationship in a War Table missive.

 

Oh man, I'm just making myself sad again. :pours herself some of Avejaded's wine: 

 

Spoiler

I'm not worried about our favorite romance being a war table missive. When I posted the Weekes convo about closure for Lavellan I included something else on purpose. In that convo I had tweeted at him and the original poster (who I believe is a follower of this thread) that the new game=new protagonist made me doubt we'd get closure. Weekes favorited that comment. He's also replied with "spoilers" when people ask if we are getting a new player character in the next game. I think we may get to play our inquisitors in the new game (at least for some parts of the game).

[Avejajed]

I agree.

Spoiler

They made him very sympathetic and regretful. And yet... resolute. I'm still reeling from the fact that he's preparing to kill me and everyone I love. I mean. Wow. My boyfriend is planning on killing me. That's sure not what I was expecting to get out of my romance.

I do think he can be redeemed. I just have a hard time imagining how that can possibly happen now. How can my one-armed IQ be a real player in the next game?

Sigh. Weekes claiming we'll get resolution is promising. But I can't help but imagine that it means I'll be reading about my relationship in a War Table missive.

Oh man, I'm just making myself sad again. :pours herself some of Avejaded's wine:

Spoiler

You can call me Jess here. No one can spell Avejibajab anyway lol.

I think we could play two characters, actually, or get to choose between Lavellan and a new PC. First, can you imagine how bad ass it would be for Bioware press wise to have a disabled main character with a Dagna-made prosthetic and is still awesome? The blogs would eat that **** up.

Second, they have talked about having multiple protag before. Someone else will have to link, but yeah. They have talked about it and think it's an interesting concept. The next game may be perfect to experiment with that, letting you actually control your inky during certain scenes.

And I don't care what they said THEN. I care about what's right for the story and I think they do too. I think if they thought bringing your PC back as main character in the next game was important to the story, they would do it, damn whatever they told us three years ago.

I've even seen some theorize that you could only play your inky if you made..certain choices. Otherwise they would be locked out and you'd be forced to play new characters. Not sure how that would go over

Anyway I'm not worried about Lavellan getting the Hawke treatment.I'm more worried they won't be able to make her hair right.

[Cee]

Hard to say what is going on with Solas.

 

Spoiler

On one hand, we have plenty of hints that he could be a spirit. He fits the profile perfectly- embodying wisdom, but also destructive pride. We know that spirits existed with the ancient elves as equal members and lived among them. At least one of the evanuris has special abilities typically reserved for spirits- she's killed, but able to reform herself. She's also able to bind herself to a mortal being.

 

Solas is portrayed as a wolf and we know that spirits are not bound to one form, and often pick up animal shape first. 

 

But on the other- Solas claims to be mortal, and mentions that he envies spirits. Cole also remarks excitedly that 'what he [Cole] is isn't wrong' when Cole finds out that spirits took mortal forms more regularly back in ancient times. If Solas was also a spirit, Cole would already know that there wasn't anything wrong with him. 

 

It is curious though. Maybe Solas is some sort of first generation elf x spirit mortal? 

 

I'm not sure where I am going with this rambling, but I do think the Jaws of Hakkon DLC fits somewhere into all of this. It seemed important knowledge to find out that over time, Avaar spirit gods would grow mad and need to be killed so that they could be safely reborn. 

 

Spoiler

 

If you ask him if he's like Mythal, he says no, he is the original Solas

 

"No, this is all I have ever been."

 

https://youtu.be/RE8LQEuL-_Y?t=141

 

 

 

[midnight tea]

Spoiler

 

If you ask him if he's like Mythal, he says no, he is the original Solas

 

"No, this is all I have ever been."

 

https://youtu.be/RE8LQEuL-_Y?t=141

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

He also states verbatim in one of final banters with Cole that he is not a spirit per se.

 

Cole: You don't need to envy me, Solas. You can find happiness in your own way.

Solas: I apologize for disturbing you, Cole. I am not a spirit, and sometimes it is hard to remember such simple truths.

Cole: They are not gone so long as you remember them.

Solas: I know.

Cole: But you could let them go.

Solas: I know that as well.

Cole: You didn't do it to be right. You did it to save them.

Inquisitor: Solas, what is Cole talking about?

Solas: A mistake. One of many made by a much younger elf who was certain he knew everything.

Cole: You weren't wrong, though.

Solas: Thank you, Cole.

 

Or

 

Inquisitor: Cole, I think Solas would like you to stop.

Solas: It is no bother, Inquisitor. Cole is a spirit of compassion and this world is too bleak to spurn compassion offered freely. I will never know that for certain, Cole, but thank you for saying it.

 

 

 

... The whole "they are not gone so long as you remember them" also makes me quite convinced that Lavellan remembering him as he was may be quite important later.

[Sifr]

One that shoots exploding bees

 

Spoiler

Though by the end of the game, Elemental Mines was my Lavellan's go-to ability.  She can still chuck explosives and set traps just fine right-handed.

 

Spoiler

Dagna or an Artificer Inquisitor eventually builds a clockwork prosthetic arm, which can either double or easily be swapped out for a crossbow, knife-launcher or a bee-shooter. The chainsaw attachment is sadly still a long ways from leaving the drawing board...

 

This is my favourite new headcanon.

[Shari'El]

I finished

 

Spoiler

My heart hurts, my heads are shaking, this was so hard to watch.

He looked so sad... In the epilogue's epilogue they described how Solas watches Lavellan in her dreams..

Fuckkkkkkk

 

Credit spoilers:

 

Spoiler

Cassandraaaaaaaaaaaaaa -cries from laughter- the accents!!!

[RedMagister]

Hard to say what is going on with Solas.

 

Spoiler

On one hand, we have plenty of hints that he could be a spirit. He fits the profile perfectly- embodying wisdom, but also destructive pride. We know that spirits existed with the ancient elves as equal members and lived among them. At least one of the evanuris has special abilities typically reserved for spirits- she's killed, but able to reform herself. She's also able to bind herself to a mortal being.

 

Solas is portrayed as a wolf and we know that spirits are not bound to one form, and often pick up animal shape first. 

 

But on the other- Solas claims to be mortal, and mentions that he envies spirits. Cole also remarks excitedly that 'what he [Cole] is isn't wrong' when Cole finds out that spirits took mortal forms more regularly back in ancient times. If Solas was also a spirit, Cole would already know that there wasn't anything wrong with him. 

 

It is curious though. Maybe Solas is some sort of first generation elf x spirit mortal? 

 

I'm not sure where I am going with this rambling, but I do think the Jaws of Hakkon DLC fits somewhere into all of this. It seemed important knowledge to find out that over time, Avaar spirit gods would grow mad and need to be killed so that they could be safely reborn. 

 

Spoiler

Hm, I want to know if the Inquisitors spirit is still.. marvelous, post loss of hand. I was always curious about it. Maybe it's a game thing where they just make the protag special. or is that just Solas's doing?  

[midnight tea]

Spoiler

Hm, I want to know if the Inquisitors spirit is still.. marvelous, post loss of hand. I was always curious about it. Maybe it's a game thing where they just make the protag special. or is that just Solas's doing?  

 

Spoiler

Making the protag 'speshul' is our job

[Moondreamer01]

Alright all, it's late I need to head to bed. today's been fun and I just didn't have enough likes to give everyone and everything

[Cee]

I finished

 

Spoiler

My heart hurts, my heads are shaking, this was so hard to watch.

He looked so sad... In the epilogue's epilogue they described how Solas watches Lavellan in her dreams..

Fuckkkkkkk

 

Credit spoilers:

 

Spoiler

Cassandraaaaaaaaaaaaaa -cries from laughter- the accents!!!

 

 

We're here all in various parts of the same blanket fort.  Process your feelings with us.

[_Lucinia]

Telanadas  Also have a kitty hug:

 

 

Spoiler

They gave us a chance to try and redeem him.  And I don't think they've actually said that quizzy will be an NPC.  I know the trend has been a new PC with every game, but Weekes is at the helm now, and BioWare mentioned being intrigued by the idea of multiple playable characters.

 

Spoiler

I really hope and wish that will be the case.  But I suspect that having the Inquisitor lose part of their arm is a way to make sure they can't be the protagonist in the next game.  I am all for playing Lavellan again.  I want it so bad.  I'm just preparing myself for a new PC.

Some mentioned The Witcher 3 and how they did it; and I loved it.  I felt so much more for Ciri and understood Geralt's drive to find her.  Plus she was voiced by Jo Wyatt so I instantly loved her (omg Hawke is that you?!)

 

[Lady Artifice]

Spoiler

Dagna or an Artificer Inquisitor eventually builds a clockwork prosthetic arm, which can either double or easily be swapped out for a crossbow, knife-launcher or a bee-shooter. The chainsaw attachment is sadly still a long ways from leaving the drawing board...

 

This is my favourite new headcanon.

 

Spoiler

As usual, you've concocted my favorite new head canon too.

[Lady Artifice]

Spoiler

 

Maker, but he did wear that armor well.