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[Eurowande]

ok... i need to play something new for a bit going for Life is strange and its totally your fault guys ... if i come back later here depressed ( more depressed than now) ill blame you all

[Ven'inan]

Wait, what hair is your Lavellan using? That looks gorgeous.. is it a mod??? Why didn't I know about this???

 

If you don't mind me answering, that would be the Side Swept Hair mod by Skara888 found here http://skara888.tumb...le-to-track-you  

 

I use it myself as well :3

[Shari'El]

I got more of Cole's comments in Trespasser.. And one from decent at the bottom.

Spoiler

After the first one, they're all about the Stone.

 

The one about "ancient shapers" is interesting. And the "bodies from the earth".

 

Also along with

 

Spoiler

The codex from the eluvian in the collapsed area in the Deep Roads

 

In the light of the veilfire, the runes seems to shift, coiling and uncoiling like snakes. A thunderous voice shatters the stillness, shouting:

"Hail Mythal, adjudicator and savior! She has struck down the Pillars of the Earth and rendered their Demesne unto the People! Praise her name forever!"

For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire.

The vision grows dark. An aeon seems to pass. Then the runes crackle, as if filled with an angry energy.

A new vision appears: Elves collapsing caverns, sealing the Deep Roads with stone and magic.

Terror, heart-pounding, ice-cold, as the last of the spells is cast.

 

A voice whispers:

"What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger. The people must rise before their false gods destroy them all."

 

I've been wondering about that, and "their ancient shapers were mountains drawn from their wills" and "they made bodies from the earth", followed by "it fought back but they made it forget".

 

So perhaps the Evanuris created the titans with their will (seems like willpower is what granted great mages their powers pre-veil), for some purpose.. Ancient shapers... I'm pretty sure this talks about titans as well, titans shape the earth, perhaps they were created to easily manipulate the world outside the crossroads? 

I'm thinking "made bodies from the earth" maybe speaks of the dwarves instead of the titans (though it may still talk about the titans), this is why they have a connection to the stone instead of the fade, they were born out of it, or more likely out of the titans (which fits with what we know from the Descent), perhaps the dwarves were created to serve as servants to mine lyrium, who knows? I think this may relate to this, perhaps titans held their connection to their kin (which is why they are described as witless and soulless) but it then says "it fought back but they made it forget", so the Evanuris severed the connection between the titans and the dwarves, thus giving the dwarves independence?

Of course the whole "witless, soulless" part could be the subjective view of the elves of dwarves, if Solas feels like those who aren't connected to the Fade are like Tranquils then it makes sense if you look at the dwarves from their perspective.

 

Reminds me of 

Solas: Dwarves are the severed arm of a once mighty hero, lying in a pool of blood. Undirected. Whatever skill of arms it had, gone forever. Although it might twitch to give the appearance of life, it will never dream.

 

The arm of the titans, they did their work for them.

But see how he speaks of those who can't dream as not alive, kind of disturbing.

 

As much as I LOVE Solas and understand to some extent his suffering, he can be such an ass.

[ZhengAn]

Spoiler

warm cuddly sad ending? Hmm. perhaps he doesn't die alone and the two split into little wisps of themselves....

I realize it's not ideal to give him an easy loving sort of end. For solas (& us ultimately) to have resolution, he'd have to accept a great deal.

A quote by inq was "we need to start believing in this world" or something? A thing solas hasn't done, but questions, at least.

personally I'd like solas to learn it at his bitter end. With love. Ugh I'm not creative at all with this. How will they end solas- I wish i could see it. I can't see it!!

 

I think they might make use of 'the dying alone' fear of Solas.

 

Spoiler

What is the most cruel and ruthless ending of Solas, I suppose, would be dying alone, without friends, with the whole world despising and celebrating the failure of the 'Dread Wolf', in a place where he never consider as homeland. Everyone surrounding him is stranger, and is happy about him dying, celebrating with their friends. His culture, his people, his homeland, NONE. Nothing is familiar. Alright maybe I shouldn't have said that. This is terrible.

 

It might be the ending of stop-solas-even-if-it-means-killing-him-version, which I found extremely sad, but might fulfill the wish of those who REALLY hate solas to death.

[Eurowande]

I think they might make use of 'the dying alone' fear of Solas.

 

Spoiler

What is the most cruel and ruthless ending of Solas, I suppose, would be dying alone, without friends, with the whole world despising and celebrating the failure of the 'Dread Wolf', in a place where he never consider as homeland. Everyone surrounding him is stranger. His culture, his people, his homeland, NONE. Nothing is familiar.

 

This might be the ending of stop-solas-even-if-it-means-killing-him-version, which I found extremely sad, but might fulfill the wish of those who REALLY hate solas to death.

And i was just thinking i hit the bottom of the sadness for today, god i dont even what to think about this

[Raege]

I'm not sure what counts as a tresspasser spoiler so just going to tag it all

 

Spoiler

As a long time lurker, this thread has a been great help surviving post-trespasser. I've never been hit in the feels this much by a video game. I finished the DLC the day it released and only now am starting to feel normal again :x

 

I was trying to distract myself from the feels and ran into something interesting. This has propably been mentioned before but one of the songs in Witcher 3 fits post-Tresspasser Solavellan really well (esspecially if your Lavellan has black hair and violet eyes). (It's just a  song but I guess it spoils a character, kinda?)

 

Spoiler

 

Also really been loving reading all the fantastic theorycrafting you guys have been doing

 

 

[Abelis]

I think they might make use of 'the dying alone' fear of Solas.

 

Spoiler

What is the most cruel and ruthless ending of Solas, I suppose, would be dying alone, without friends, with the whole world despising and celebrating the failure of the 'Dread Wolf', in a place where he never consider as homeland. Everyone surrounding him is stranger, and is happy about him dying, celebrating with their friends. His culture, his people, his homeland, NONE. Nothing is familiar. Alright maybe I shouldn't have said that. This is terrible.

 

It might be the ending of stop-solas-even-if-it-means-killing-him-version, which I found extremely sad, but might fulfill the wish of those who REALLY hate solas to death.

Spoiler

Ahhhh come on!! This is sooooo cruel! . but, arghh, it is very possible BW does something like that. There is a crazy amount of Solas haters right now that they would be giggling madly and hugging themselfs in glee, if this happened (pun totally intented you Solashaters! )

[Illyria]

Another day, another thread about how

Spoiler

irredeemably evil and racist Solas is

[TeaLulu]

Spoiler

Listening to Solas-Cole banter and this struck me:

 

https://youtu.be/b0zNyv_WdH0?t=5819

 

Are they talking about the Evanuris? It seems to imply that Solas has more guilt not only about the fate of the Elvhen, but specifically about what happened to the Evanuris, than expected. Were they perhaps closer than expected?

 

EVERYTHING SAID HAS SO MUCH MORE MEANING NOW. I really want to play again just to hear it all in the new context.

 

[Illyria]

Does anyone know what schematics are in Trespasser, and also how the trials work?

 

Spoiler

So far I've found Encore's schematic, Elgha'nan Enaste's schematic, and the weapon that has 'chance of bees on hit' but I don't know if that has a schematic.

[S.W.]

The problem, and I'm not going to tag this because it's not really a spoiler, but the problem with giving characters too much room to RP is it could severely hinder future games.

The thing is, we have to get from A to B, using a ton of different paths and choices to get there. But at the end we still have to be at B.

The paths we take to get there are varied and we may have minor changes in world state, but everyone gets the same general ending because all end choices have to eventually lead to the same future in DA4.

Does this make sense?

 

I think character choice does not always lead to a good dramatic narrative.

Spoiler

If Lavellen had ran off with Solas, then we'd be left without an opposing organisation, probably. Imagine that when the Inquisitor's party enter the eluvian after her, instead of finding an armless Inquisitor who explains the details, they instead find nothing? The qunari placed blame on Solas but his role, motivations, and intentions weren't known.

 

The whole of DA4 would be different. Probably at detriment to the story. Nobody else really will take down Solas - it's not their area of expertise, nor their responsibility. Governments don't care if elves go missing. The Inquisition will. And without the Inquisitor, Ferelden and Orlais would seize at the chance to tear it to pieces anyway.

 

Which is why I'm happy to have limited choice in an indefinite series of long, epic fantasy RPGs. The shorter your storyline, the easier it is to keep track of all the numerous plot threads. It must get too complicated at some point. If I wanted to play a game which maximised player choice, I'd probably pick up a three hour visual novel or the like.

[drosophila]

Spoiler

He admits to not being 100% sure of what's going to happen, but he has a decent guess. He's been mistaken before, but he's also an intelligent man. And the last time he wasn't sure 100% what would happen.. look where that got him.

 

I think it's almost a given that the sudden removal of the Veil will cause countless deaths. Solas, when discussing the state of nature that there was before, describes it as beautiful. He also fully admits that it's dangerous. Is nature in general dangerous? Yes. Is the current state of the Veil dangerous in a different way? (Demon possession etc). Absolutely. But 95% of the modern peoples of Thedas are not adapted to, prepared for or equipped for a world without the Veil. The resulting chaos and death will be insanely high. And he will be the architect of this, for the sake of a long-dead people and scattered few. If Thedas is to return to a pre-Veil state, it has to be a slow, gradual change so as not to rocket the world through a bloody hellspiral. And plainly speaking, even if modern elves are saved in his plan, there's still blatantly no place for at least three other entire races (potentially more, because what of things like the Fex? The Executors? Are they other species, are they sentient?) in the new world. It's "the world of the elves". "Some will die" with the bringing down of the Veil is an understatement.

 

Sandal's prophecy doesn't directly talk about destruction but if you read between the lines and link it to other things said in the game: the skies will open wide, the magic will come back. It's an allusion to the Ardent Blossom voice: pull back the curtain, let the light in, let it burn. They both refer to Solas' plans. The burning is the massive destruction that will result among modern Thedosians from the removal of the Veil that I just described up there. ^ He did kill the elves, he destroyed everything they were.

 

Have my characters killed in pursuit of a greater goal and saving the world? Absolutely. The point I was making was that I personally don't see what Solas has done and intends to do as being on the same level of that kind of killing, like how I don't see it as on the same level of Thom, or Sten. Which of your characters caused or intends to cause genocidal-level destruction? Cause unless you count curbstomping the darkspawn, none of mine have.

 

With that in mind, I've also said that in his position my Inquisitor would do the same as him. She would. In that regard it's not about judging him. His motives and feelings are what make him a compelling character or antagonist. He's way better and cooler than Cornflakes who was just 'lol im evil mwahahah'. I'm not saying there shouldn't be an option to redeem him, that's not it at all. I think there should be, I hope there is and I've outright stated that I want to save Solas. What I was discussing was how for me, I think for him redemption through death is not cheap or overused given the scale of his actions.

 

 

Spoiler

I agree with all of your judgement, just not with the sentence. Death would be too easy, and a relief for him. It would provide some measure of redemption, but really, it would mostly give him peace. I'd be somewhat happy to see that trope. 

 

But I'm the kind who wants to see people do something and learn to redeem themselves, and death is somewhat passive. Even if he dies in sacrifice, a much better sacrifice would be accomplished through living and working to undo the wrongs that he's done, just not by committing more mistakes. I want to see him work his a** off as a regular person. Try to do small positive things for once instead of change the fabric of reality. Have him be left with his regret and deal with it psychologically instead of rushing into grandiose actions as a response to it. Build close trusting relationships, no manipulation of any sort, with the non-people, even the ones that don't chage his mind and are considered too simple and stupid by him. (Yep, there's an option in his personal quest where he calls those mages stupid.)

 

IMO, this is the better approach which will hurt him more but will feel better for everyone in the long run. But I've very rarely seen this come about in fiction as it is less dramatic, so I'm not hoping it would actually come about. 

Spoiler

If I had the option I would side with Solas for the RP.

 

Spoiler

It's great to see so many would. It's the most fun RP option, ALL TEH DRAMA.

 

DAI really lacked any ability to be evil, which limits RP a bit.  Sure, I get why they took the stupid evil choices out - if the Inquisitor was going around kicking puppies and eating babies then the advisors would remove them from the position, imprison them and only get them out whenever any rifts need sealing (and as Solas proved at the first rift - the herald doesn't actually have to do anything.  They just need to wave at it).  But still - corrupting Cole into a demon during his quest (completely subverting 'take a third option' tropes), execute Blackwall yourself, show no sympathy to Varric following Hawke's death, threaten the conscripted (or even allied!) mages with Tranquility...  All of these would've added fantastic RP options to the game.  Horrible options, but good RP.

 

Yes, so agree with this, I never did an 'evil' PT, because any 'evil' character in DAI comes across as just a very blunt character with some anger issues.

 

The problem, and I'm not going to tag this because it's not really a spoiler, but the problem with giving characters too much room to RP is it could severely hinder future games.

The thing is, we have to get from A to B, using a ton of different paths and choices to get there. But at the end we still have to be at B.

The paths we take to get there are varied and we may have minor changes in world state, but everyone gets the same general ending because all end choices have to eventually lead to the same future in DA4.

Does this make sense?

 

That's the problem, but (and there might be a good reason for this that I lack the experience to see) couldn't it be solved by having an ending where you simply lose the game? If Inky gets too evil and makes the wrong choices, eventually we get a cut scene where someone assaninates them and the screen says Cory used the resulting chaos to take over Thedas and you're not allowed to import from that world state in future games. 

[Shari'El]

There are still discussions on whether the Golden City was the seat of the Maker or the Elven Pantheon as well as discussions of when it turned black...

What if I'll tell you IT WAS ALWAYS BLACK?

 

[FernRain]

@Shari'el:

 

Spoiler

In WoT there's this verse from the canticle:

Seven times seventy men of stone immense rose up from the earth like sleepers waking at the dawn, crossing the land with strides immeasurable, and in the hollows of their footprints paradise was stamped, indelible.

[midnight tea]

That's the problem, but (and there might be a good reason for this that I lack the experience to see) couldn't it be solved by having an ending where you simply lose the game? If Inky gets too evil and makes the wrong choices, eventually we get a cut scene where someone assaninates them and the screen says Cory used the resulting chaos to take over Thedas and you're not allowed to import from that world state in future games. 

 

Spoiler

I can imagine that that would make quite a few players very, very pissed. I mean, have you seen the reactions to just one choice? Specifically: sacrificing the Chargers and leaving Bull with the Qun results in him betraying you.

 

Some people actually believed that they did the good thing by allowing Bull return the Qun. Similarly, they may not really consider many of their choices 'evil' - so can you imagine the outrage when they have found out that their world state and 100+ hour playthrough s pretty much invalid?

 

I mean, I'm pretty sure incompetent Quizzies will suffer even more consequences in future installments than loss of friends and benefits that come with them or some more benevolent choices...

[drosophila]

So these were my first thoughts when I woke up this morning (I clearly have issues...).

 

Spoiler

When Solas chuckled while talking about the evanuris killing Mythal and how an eternity of torment is a fitting punishment, it really drew my attention. It stood out compared to his general tone and manner in the entire conversation.

 

In Dalish legends, the Dread Wolf laughed madly with glee for centuries after locking away the Creators in the Beyond. 

 

I just thought it was interesting. 

[CapricornSun]

I think they might make use of 'the dying alone' fear of Solas.

 

Spoiler

What is the most cruel and ruthless ending of Solas, I suppose, would be dying alone, without friends, with the whole world despising and celebrating the failure of the 'Dread Wolf', in a place where he never consider as homeland. Everyone surrounding him is stranger, and is happy about him dying, celebrating with their friends. His culture, his people, his homeland, NONE. Nothing is familiar. Alright maybe I shouldn't have said that. This is terrible.

 

It might be the ending of stop-solas-even-if-it-means-killing-him-version, which I found extremely sad, but might fulfill the wish of those who REALLY hate solas to death.

 

Spoiler

 

But I could see this as an option that Bioware would put as one way Solas' story would end. (And you know Solas haters would love love love it.  )

 

 

EDIT: Top of the page! Have some beautiful screenshots of Solas from Trespasser (spoiler?). I love his eyes here.

 

Source: http://solas-manceri...-more-dangerous

Spoiler

 

 

[drosophila]

Spoiler

I can imagine that that would make quite a few players very, very pissed. I mean, have you seen the reactions to just one choice? Specifically: sacrificing the Chargers and leaving Bull with the Qun results in him betraying you.

 

Some people actually believed that they did the good thing by allowing Bull return the Qun. Similarly, they may not really consider many of their choices 'evil' - so can you imagine the outrage when they have found out that their world state and 100+ hour playthrough s pretty much invalid?

 

I mean, I'm pretty sure incompetent Quizzies will suffer even more consequences in future installments than loss of friends and benefits that come with them or some more benevolent choices...

 

You're probably right. 

[Illyria]

Spoiler

 

But I could see this as an option that Bioware would put as one way Solas' story would end. (And you know Solas haters would love love love it.  )

 

Bioware can fite me IRL.
 

[drosophila]

Spoiler

 

Wouldn't it be unfair if Solas haters get exactly what they want while the best fans can hope for is redeeming death and a bittersweet ending?

 

I would somehow see that as passing judgement on the fans...

 

He's a very complex character that needs a complex ending. 

[Shari'El]

Spoiler

I agree with all of your judgement, just not with the sentence. Death would be too easy, and a relief for him. It would provide some measure of redemption, but really, it would mostly give him peace. I'd be somewhat happy to see that trope. 

 

But I'm the kind who wants to see people do something and learn to redeem themselves, and death is somewhat passive. Even if he dies in sacrifice, a much better sacrifice would be accomplished through living and working to undo the wrongs that he's done, just not by committing more mistakes. I want to see him work his a** off as a regular person. Try to do small positive things for once instead of change the fabric of reality. Have him be left with his regret and deal with it psychologically instead of rushing into grandiose actions as a response to it. Build close trusting relationships, no manipulation of any sort, with the non-people, even the ones that don't chage his mind and are considered too simple and stupid by him. (Yep, there's an option in his personal quest where he calls those mages stupid.)

 

IMO, this is the better approach which will hurt him more but will feel better for everyone in the long run. But I've very rarely seen this come about in fiction as it is less dramatic, so I'm not hoping it would actually come about. 

 

Spoiler

Death as redemption doesn't really hold when the death isn't for the greater good, or in order to truly fix your mistakes, Mordin died in order to cure the genophage, if Solas just dies because he is killed for his plans (since I can't for the life of me think of another scenario, his idea of "fixing" is having the world die after all) it's not redemption, it's just defeating the antagonist. Who knows, perhaps for him bringing down the veil would serve as his "death as redemption" (in case he dies in the process) but it won't for the players and that's what matters.

If he brings down the veil safely, restoring power to all and prepare the world for a change, then maybe if he dies for that cause it's redeeming.

Sacrificing his life to save one person for example isn't redeeming, he's done too much damage (especially since I can't see that happening since his goals are too big to sacrifice himself for one person).

 

Also: he isn't a bad person, from his perspective he ruined the world, but going with his plan will.. make him questionable, only then I'll feel the great need for some big redemption cutscene or whatever.

[wright1978]

I think character choice does not always lead to a good dramatic narrative.

Spoiler

If Lavellen had ran off with Solas, then we'd be left without an opposing organisation, probably. Imagine that when the Inquisitor's party enter the eluvian after her, instead of finding an armless Inquisitor who explains the details, they instead find nothing? The qunari placed blame on Solas but his role, motivations, and intentions weren't known.

 

The whole of DA4 would be different. Probably at detriment to the story. Nobody else really will take down Solas - it's not their area of expertise, nor their responsibility. Governments don't care if elves go missing. The Inquisition will. And without the Inquisitor, Ferelden and Orlais would seize at the chance to tear it to pieces anyway.

 

Which is why I'm happy to have limited choice in an indefinite series of long, epic fantasy RPGs. The shorter your storyline, the easier it is to keep track of all the numerous plot threads. It must get too complicated at some point. If I wanted to play a game which maximised player choice, I'd probably pick up a three hour visual novel or the like.

 

Spoiler

Well they'd still know Solas is aligned with Fen'harel even if they wouldn't know he is the god himself.  If the inquisitor disappeared, the inquisition would likely disband which is one of the existing options. Unless the next game is going to feature the inquisitor as the protagonist i see zero reason he/she shouldn't have been allowed such a roleplaying option.

[Illyria]

Spoiler

 

Wouldn't it be unfair if Solas haters get exactly what they want while the best fans can hope for is redeeming death and a bittersweet ending?

 

I would somehow see that as passing judgement on the fans...

 

He's a very complex character that needs a complex ending. 

 

I really hope this isn't the case
 

[Delphine]

Bioware can fite me IRL.

 

Now THAT'S the spirit!

[Shari'El]

That's the problem, but (and there might be a good reason for this that I lack the experience to see) couldn't it be solved by having an ending where you simply lose the game? If Inky gets too evil and makes the wrong choices, eventually we get a cut scene where someone assaninates them and the screen says Cory used the resulting chaos to take over Thedas and you're not allowed to import from that world state in future games. 

 

That kind of reminds me of Mass Effect, it has happened before, I'm not sure how people reacted to that though, I personally thought the idea was brilliant.

Although I may not be the best person to attest since nobody died in ME2 for me