153429 réponses à ce sujet

[Mims]

Translated elvish is cool...but, I can't help but think its all pretty subjective, given its not an actual language. It doesn't seem like bioware is putting a lot of effort into it being something that can be spoken, given how the meaning of lines changes moment to moment. 

 

It's cool! I just don't know how much I'd actually trust it, outside of Weekes confirming. Perhaps he'll provide a translation now that the game is over? 

[Miss This or That]

Holy crap... New knowledge straight off Tumblr. 

 

http://villainfetish...las-at-the-well

 

Spoiler

This! 

 

The last thing Solas says to Abelas is “Malas amelin ne halam, Abelas”.

Solas says he said he hoped Abelas would get a new name, but just knowing ‘halam’, one of the most common elvish words in the game, we know that’s full of ****.

So what is he actually saying? This one is a bit dicey since it involves assuming some of these are compound words, but I think this makes sense given context and precedent (we have a few compound words like bellanaris or adahlen;  it’s most common though in proper nouns)

Glossary is here. Cut for Trespasser spoilers below.

Malas amelin ne halam, Abelas

(lit. Me-give one-blood you end, Abelas)

Abelas is not translated here because, being capitalized, I am treating it as a proper noun.

Before we start interpreting, we need to look at the context. Immediately before this, Solas says there is a place for him. (video here) Abelas says then that perhaps there are places the shemlen have not touched, and posits uthenara as a possible ending for him.

Regardless of the Inquisitor’s response, Solas then delivers his elvish line.

Most of this then has a straightforward interpretation, but figuring out what is meant by ‘one-blood’ is the trick here. I think it refers to a group of related people. In other contexts, I would say ‘family’ but here I think it means the Sentinels.

From here, we can take advantage of how Elvish as a cipher is tenseless.

Thus:

Malas amelin ne halam, Abelas

I will give your people an ending, Abelas.

It’s a ****** recruitment speech.

 

I thought about this and came to a similar conclusion, though I did not think it would be as devastating as it actually ended up being.

Spoiler

With the world burning in chaos and almost everyone dying and all that stuff.

 

The things he says about Abelas gaining a new name is a lot more meaningful too, given the now better known context. (If the translation is completely correct, that is.) Abelas means sorrow, but if we look at Solas' plans, said SORROW will come to pass. Dude lied by omission once again.

[Moondreamer01]

I thought about this and came to a similar conclusion, though I did not think it would be as devastating as it actually ended up being.

Spoiler

With the world burning in chaos and almost everyone dying and all that stuff.

 

The things he says about Abelas gaining a new name is a lot more meaningful too, given the now better known context. (If the translation is completely correct, that is.) Abelas means sorrow, but if we look at Solas' plans, said SORROW will come to pass. Dude lied by omission once again.

Spoiler

And if we believe in "rebirth" (or spirits reforming after death, with the understanding that ancient elves are partly spirits in physical form), Abelas gaining a new name might well mean a new life. He ends his current life helping Solas and is reborn at a later date, free to choose another name, free from sorrow.

 

So, Solas is still saying to Abelas that he hopes he can choose another name for himself in the future...

[Solas]

On elves and spirit hybrids.

 

Spoiler

I don't think any of the ancient elves are spirit hybrids, with the exception of Mythal. They ARE spirits, just mortal ones, like Cole. Or they are the direct descendants of them, who apparently would retain some of their spirit ancestor's capabilities. This is why Solas prods Sera on occasion, trying to get her to 'sense' things about the breach. He can't understand how modern elves exist only in the mortal world, when they are intended to exist in both. Hence, why they all feel tranquil to him.

 

Imagine it like this. An elf is a bird, but you put the bird in a cage. The cage is the mortal side of the veil. That bird can keep having babies- they fill up the cage, but they never actually live out their potential of being meant to fly. There's a whole other world they are supposed to exist in, and they can't. 

 

This would also explain Kieran's confusion as to why Lavellan 'would want to look like that'. 

 

Edit: Might also be the reason why elves can't breed with other mortal races without losing their 'elfiness'! 

Spoiler

also ties to his lack of romantic interest in and thoughts on other races. if he's a bird that can fly free, she's a caged bird, and non-elves are flightless birds.

[Mims]

Spoiler

also ties to his lack of romantic interest in and thoughts on other races. if he's a bird that can fly free, she's a caged bird, and non-elves are flightless birds.

 

Spoiler

[BoscoBread]

Translated elvish is cool...but, I can't help but think its all pretty subjective, given its not an actual language. It doesn't seem like bioware is putting a lot of effort into it being something that can be spoken, given how the meaning of lines changes moment to moment. 

 

It's cool! I just don't know how much I'd actually trust it, outside of Weekes confirming. Perhaps he'll provide a translation now that the game is over? 

I doubt he will since that would confirm where they go and that may be actual spoilers. If they remain alive and pop up again, I would assume the team wants to keep that a (nice and sexy) surprise.  

 

Spoiler

But, I think it may be closer to the truth.  Solas has been working to achieve his goals with the Inquisition the entire time. Why would he let powerful allies slip through his fingers?   They know what he is. Or at least recognize that he is different.  After Trespasser...I am suspicious of literally EVERYTHING he ever did.  Save his relationship with Lavellan, even the friendships are suspect. I think he grew to care for them, but the impetus for doing so was clearly learning them and I think remained the motivating factor in staying friends.  They are clearly expendable...for now.  We'll see what happens when he has the ineveitable emotional breakdown at the end of next game.  I WANT MY CASS AND SOLAS MOMENT DAMMIT. 

[Miss This or That]

Spoiler

And if we believe in "rebirth" (or spirits reforming after death, with the understanding that ancient elves are partly spirits in physical form), Abelas gaining a new name might well mean a new life. He ends his current life helping Solas and is reborn at a later date, free to choose another name, free from sorrow.

 

So, Solas is still saying to Abelas that he hopes he can choose another name for himself in the future...

 

Spoiler

Yes, that thought could very well be true! If he presses the complete restart button and says that he, himself, is on his death journey, then there is a high chance that said death journey involves a lot of the other ancient elves as well.

 

If we believe they are spirits who manifested themselves in this world and created a new race (or their ancestors were this), plus take the conversation in the Fade to which Solas replies "Banal Nadas" into consideration, which could mean to put everything back into non-existance, as well as the lie that Abelas would gain a new name...

 

Then Solas could very well plan the end of ALL life as we know it, with the elves back in their spirit states, ready to return under new names. As something similar, but NEVER truly the same. 

[Solas]

DA Elvish is a cipher and frustrates linguists to no end. Add to that probable differences between ancient elvish, Dales elvish and modern elvish, the writers' intentionally writing layers of meaning, misdirection, crypticness and speculation-generating way of crafting lines, and how canonically, elven tends to meander, and is often a game of intents, not a direct mapping of phonetic meaning i.e. is a mess... yeah.

[Milan92]

So, Solas fans. Who here thinks "Let my people go" from Prince of Egypt would fit perfectly to describe the relationship between Solas and the Inquisitor?

[Mims]

I doubt he will since that would confirm where they go and that may be actual spoilers. If they remain alive and pop up again, I would assume the team wants to keep that a (nice and sexy) surprise.  

 

Spoiler

But, I think it may be closer to the truth.  Solas has been working to achieve his goals with the Inquisition the entire time. Why would he let powerful allies slip through his fingers?   They know what he is. Or at least recognize that he is different.  After Trespasser...I am suspicious of literally EVERYTHING he ever did.  Save his relationship with Lavellan, even the friendships are suspect. I think he grew to care for them, but the impetus for doing so was clearly learning them and I think remained the motivating factor in staying friends.  They are clearly expendable...for now.  We'll see what happens when he has the ineveitable emotional breakdown at the end of next game.  I WANT MY CASS AND SOLAS MOMENT DAMMIT. 

 

Definitely agree he's up to stuff! I just meant, it's hard to say what one line means exactly as far as the elvish goes. I wish that weren't the case- it would be nice if bioware hired someone to build the language so it actually could have hidden meanings and phrases sparsed throughout. 

[BoscoBread]

DA Elvish is a cipher and frustrates linguists to no end. Add to that probable differences between ancient elvish, Dales elvish and modern elvish, the writers' intentionally writing layers of meaning, misdirection, crypticness and speculation-generating way of crafting lines, and how canonically, elven tends to meander, and is often a game of intents, not a direct mapping of phonetic meaning i.e. is a mess... yeah.

The "holes" that exist in the language make sense - cannonically - since we are viewing it from the perspective of modern people trying to understand a nearly dead language with almost nothing written that survived. I am HOPEFUL that they hire a linguist for next game to beef it up since we are clearly dealing with

Spoiler

ancient elves.

 

[Moondreamer01]

Spoiler

Yes, that thought could very well be true! If he presses the complete restart button and says that he, himself, is on his death journey, then there is a high chance that said death journey involves a lot of the other ancient elves as well.

 

If we believe they are spirits who manifested themselves in this world and created a new race (or their ancestors were this), plus take the conversation in the Fade to which Solas replies "Banal Nadas" into consideration, which could mean to put everything back into non-existance, as well as the lie that Abelas would gain a new name...

 

Then Solas could very well plan the end of ALL life as we know it, with the elves back in their spirit states, ready to return under new names. As something similar, but NEVER truly the same. 

Spoiler

Well, I didn't think that he would necessary kill everything (although it's certainly a theory, I'd call the big 'ol "reset button" Bring back to the world to its original state and hope the next time they do things better). But even if it's not the case, someone like Abelas with no goal and no reason to live anymore might well sacrifice their lives for the ultimate goal anyway.

[Sifr]

I've been wondering in my new playthrough;

 

Spoiler

Should we now be worried all the Elven Artefacts we were activating across the game, because why Solas would want to strengthen the Veil if his plan is to tear the whole thing down in the end?

 

The only thing I can think to explain it is that the process of erecting or removing the Veil requires extremely precise calculations, which would be thrown off entirely due to the existence of rifts and the Veil being weakened all over.

 

Since the Veil is less of an actual barrier and more of a magical vibration and/or resonance frequency (according to the arcane knowledge perk), perhaps the reason Solas implies his plan will take a while to impliment, is due to him still working to find the right "frequency" to cancel it out? And even with the power-boost from Mythal, he's still got to find some means to impliment it, now he's no longer able to use the Orb.

[Miss This or That]

Spoiler

Well, I didn't think that he would necessary kill everything (although it's certainly a theory, I'd call the big 'ol "reset button" Bring back to the world to its original state and hope the next time they do things better). But even if it's not the case, someone like Abelas with no goal and no reason to live anymore might well sacrifice their lives for the ultimate goal anyway.

 

Spoiler

I think I should have explained that better  I don't think he's a twirling mustache kind of guy. Rather, I thought about the reset button myself. Reset things, don't 'care' about what happens to the rest of the world and just pray for the best. But I think it's a really fun theory to combine it with the spirit stuff, the non-existence, Abelas' new name, the death journey etc. There's certainly a few pieces of the puzzle that we are missing, but it seems pretty similar to what happened to Wisdom, just on a really big scale. And that's scary.

[Moondreamer01]

Spoiler

I think I should have explained that better  I don't think he's a twirling mustache kind of guy. Rather, I thought about the reset button myself. Reset things, don't 'care' about what happens to the rest of the world and just pray for the best. But I think it's a really fun theory to combine it with the spirit stuff, the non-existence, Abelas' new name, the death journey etc. There's certainly a few pieces of the puzzle that we are missing, but it seems pretty similar to what happened to Wisdom, just on a really big scale. And that's scary.

Spoiler

My mind has certainly wandered this way too, especially if we take him at his world about destroying the Inquisitor's world. So, you're not alone. Right now, I'm hesitating between this and turning back time as a working theory. And, simply having the tearing down of the veil being a catastrophy a hundred time worse than the breach and that state of things continuing long enough that by the time everything calms down the world will lay in shamble. The fact that he wants people at peace until they die though seems to imply it won't be something that take years to pass (because people would be suffering while they try to stay alive in the new reality and that seems against what Solas is trying to implement. Again though, I might be over thinking. Maybe he simply wants to give them "peace before the storm").

[Solas]

So, Solas fans. Who here thinks "Let my people go" from Prince of Egypt would fit perfectly to describe the relationship between Solas and the Inquisitor?

OH MY GOD yessss for ages now omg i'm so happy to have found you 

[Solas]

The "holes" that exist in the language make sense - cannonically - since we are viewing it from the perspective of modern people trying to understand a nearly dead language with almost nothing written that survived. I am HOPEFUL that they hire a linguist for next game to beef it up since we are clearly dealing with

Spoiler

ancient elves.

 

I agree, I just meant that I'm wary of Bob saying 'this Probable and Definitely Possible and Sensical translation makes wayyy more sense than Harry's Equally Probable and Definitely Possible and Sensical translation', given all that we know of elven.

[Shari'El]

This.. this gave me actual chills down my spine (I was listening to the dread Wolf theme at the same time, which probably didn't help). I need time to think. You're unto something big here, I'm pretty sure. All those prophecies scream of so much foreshadowing it's not even funny. Someone needs to do an in depth study of this canticle. Who was it that did the Tyrrda Brightaxe saga some months ago? We need something like this.

 

I might go back and grab all the prophecies we've been able to find in game. See if having them all on the page could bring new knowledge.

 

Oh god I've been listening to the Dread Wolf theme for the past two hours, including while writing this haha

And that was FrankWisdom

[wright1978]

Spoiler

I knew it! I was actually replaying that scene earlier today and with everything we've found out, I thought Solas had something up his sleeve when he said that. Thanks for that!

 
On another topic:

Spoiler

 
If Solas' story is going to be resolved in DA4, who else would like to come to a part in the game to join him - if it's made possible? 

The loyalties of my elven characters are clear.

Spoiler

My Lavallen(who has no romantic interest in solas) & my sabrae would both join team solas. Whatever sacrifice is needed to restore the world.

[Solas]

Milan92: with All I Ever Wanted/Let my People Go

 

Spoiler

First you have a Dalish Inquisitor dealing with the DAI realizations and revelations about her culture and their faith (all that they had wrong), and her upset at this as their world has literally been turned on its head; reflecting on all they've ever wanted being the proud noble history Dalish held their People to have, and all the glory (including all the material wonders and wealths the ancients had).. they thought they were descended from a proud noble people and this knowledge is reflected everywhere in Dalish lore, only now they know the ancient nobles were dicks. First they try to deny but it's a lie. then acceptance.

 

clear allusions to make between modern elves' lot in thedas and the Israelites lot in ancient Egypt..

 

then the dynamic between Quiz/Moses and Solas/Rameses.. once I called you brotherrrr (good cause Solas' character is so much more than just the romance omg I think some folk lose sight of that sometimes), this is the last thing that I wanted, she wishes that fate had chosen another for the whole deal, measures to save her people and his actions cause them both pain and the world is caught in the crossfire, his intense stubbornness and pride.. lETTT MY HEART BE HARDENED, NEVER MIND HOW HIIIGH THE COST WILL GROWWWW

 

cries on the floor yep

[AutumnOracle]

Love your theories. They're very close to what I've theorized myself.

 

Been trying to figure out where the Titans and the humans are fitting into this­. I have a few ideas but no proof. Maybe I should get on your thread to expand I don't usually go far from here. the wider BSN world is scary

 

*Sigh* I don't have time for the larger BSN world.  So everybody keep aggregating here too  It's where I get my EVERYTHING!

[Cee]

Someone uploaded and made a playlist of the new bard songs from Trespasser: https://www.youtube....M_zvYRO0ylZgmqf

[Solas]

The loyalties of my elven characters are clear.

Spoiler

My Lavallen(who has no romantic interest in solas) & my sabrae would both join team solas. Whatever sacrifice is needed to restore the world.

Spoiler

Mine can't be on board with this unless it's absolutely clear there is a decent place for modern elves in the new world. So far, it isn't clear.

[AutumnOracle]

Holy crap... New knowledge straight off Tumblr. 

 

http://villainfetish...las-at-the-well

 

Spoiler

This! 

 

The last thing Solas says to Abelas is “Malas amelin ne halam, Abelas”.

Solas says he said he hoped Abelas would get a new name, but just knowing ‘halam’, one of the most common elvish words in the game, we know that’s full of ****.

So what is he actually saying? This one is a bit dicey since it involves assuming some of these are compound words, but I think this makes sense given context and precedent (we have a few compound words like bellanaris or adahlen;  it’s most common though in proper nouns)

Glossary is here. Cut for Trespasser spoilers below.

Malas amelin ne halam, Abelas

(lit. Me-give one-blood you end, Abelas)

Abelas is not translated here because, being capitalized, I am treating it as a proper noun.

Before we start interpreting, we need to look at the context. Immediately before this, Solas says there is a place for him. (video here) Abelas says then that perhaps there are places the shemlen have not touched, and posits uthenara as a possible ending for him.

Regardless of the Inquisitor’s response, Solas then delivers his elvish line.

Most of this then has a straightforward interpretation, but figuring out what is meant by ‘one-blood’ is the trick here. I think it refers to a group of related people. In other contexts, I would say ‘family’ but here I think it means the Sentinels.

From here, we can take advantage of how Elvish as a cipher is tenseless.

Thus:

Malas amelin ne halam, Abelas

I will give your people an ending, Abelas.

It’s a ****** recruitment speech.

 

Not surprised...but seriously...*that's ballsy*

[Mims]

Prince of Egypt is such a fantastic movie. Probably my favorite animated film.