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[roselavellan]

Regarding spirits, Solas and what Cole said in Trespasser:

Spoiler

I appear to be in the minority here, but I really hope Cole's talking about someone else, or it doesn't mean what a lot of people are theorizing it does.

I don't think we need another Cole or Origin-slain Leliana. It feels like Solas turning out to be a spirit that was pulled out of the fade and made flesh ages ago would somehow cheapen everything else since then. Does that make sense? To me, everything he's been through and done would mean more if he were a talented flesh and blood elf from the get go. Like some of the posts before, I believe gifted ancient elves could shapeshift with a thought, and alter not only themselves, but the world around them. I like the idea that he was one of those.

Solas said he's always been who he is. Only him. That's good enough for me. And I might be alone, but I really hope it stays that way.

Which means I'll have to keep looking for other explanations for Cole's words. Don't suppose anyone has poked Mister Weekes about it for even a tiny hint? Blat. He'd probably just answer with a River Song. Hrmmm. Well, Cullen has a scar on his face...

...Nope, that'd just be weird.

Doom.

 

Spoiler

I like to think he was always Solas too. Perhaps he was spirit Solas made flesh.

 

Here's another Cole quote I found, sounds exactly like Solas:

 

"Bare-faced but free, frolicking, fighting, fierce. He wants to give wisdom, not orders."

[BoscoBread]

Regarding spirits, Solas and what Cole said in Trespasser:

Spoiler

I appear to be in the minority here, but I really hope Cole's talking about someone else, or it doesn't mean what a lot of people are theorizing it does.

I don't think we need another Cole or Origin-slain Leliana. It feels like Solas turning out to be a spirit that was pulled out of the fade and made flesh ages ago would somehow cheapen everything else since then. Does that make sense? To me, everything he's been through and done would mean more if he were a talented flesh and blood elf from the get go. Like some of the posts before, I believe gifted ancient elves could shapeshift with a thought, and alter not only themselves, but the world around them. I like the idea that he was one of those.

Solas said he's always been who he is. Only him. That's good enough for me. And I might be alone, but I really hope it stays that way.

Which means I'll have to keep looking for other explanations for Cole's words. Don't suppose anyone has poked Mister Weekes about it for even a tiny hint? Blat. He'd probably just answer with a River Song. Hrmmm. Well, Cullen has a scar on his face...

...Nope, that'd just be weird.

Doom.

Spoiler

Yeah but like...he is a person. Cole if made a human. Is a human. He has the same flaws. Same motivators. Solas is "human" so to speak. He is NO different...mostly. But he's less weird than some of the human characters we've met.  

[Jayla]

Regarding spirits, Solas and what Cole said in Trespasser:

Spoiler

I appear to be in the minority here, but I really hope Cole's talking about someone else, or it doesn't mean what a lot of people are theorizing it does.

I don't think we need another Cole or Origin-slain Leliana. It feels like Solas turning out to be a spirit that was pulled out of the fade and made flesh ages ago would somehow cheapen everything else since then. Does that make sense? To me, everything he's been through and done would mean more if he were a talented flesh and blood elf from the get go. Like some of the posts before, I believe gifted ancient elves could shapeshift with a thought, and alter not only themselves, but the world around them. I like the idea that he was one of those.

Solas said he's always been who he is. Only him. That's good enough for me. And I might be alone, but I really hope it stays that way.

Which means I'll have to keep looking for other explanations for Cole's words. Don't suppose anyone has poked Mister Weekes about it for even a tiny hint? Blat. He'd probably just answer with a River Song. Hrmmm. Well, Cullen has a scar on his face...

...Nope, that'd just be weird.

Doom.

 

Spoiler

If I'm honest, I'm with you. I don't really know how to explain it, but the idea that Solas is more than who he is (or seems to be, in that he's just a super powerful mage) before us doesn't quite sit well with me. As you say, he said he's always been who he is, so that'll do for me.

 

But I still love hearing the theorycrafting. There've been some great ideas; like the Evanuris were in fact the Archdemons, that people are made sentient through spirits touching their minds/merging with the "soul", all kinds of groovy stuff. I wouldn't see it discouraged. Not saying you are, though. ^^

 

Also what Solas says about Cole at his recruitment is that Cole is entirely unique. I don't delude myself that Solas lied a lot, but it was largely by omission. If all ancient elves came from spirits originally, then what would make Cole so unique, other than being perhaps the first human to do it?

[Ardent Blossom]

Spoiler

I don't think he's a hybrid between elf and spirit. Rather, I think that every ancient elf has been a spirit first, and then gained the elven form, thus becoming part of a new race. So, Solas would always have been Solas - there was no body hopping involved. I could be wrong, of course, this is all just speculation.

I didn't really mean hybrid like a mule being half donkey and half horse.  I didn't know how else to put it clearly and was getting a bit silly.

Spoiler

What you said was essentially what I meant several days ago and what I mean now. I'm not talking about body hopping either. If all elves were once spirits then Solas was not ALWAYS as he is (which means he fibbed/omitted/doesn't know himself in the DLC). The difference between what Solas may be and what Cole is is far too fine grey to articulate clearly right now. I just mean to say people debunked my idea that Solas used to be a spirit and is now an inseparable spirit-elf thinggy (maybe upon death the spirit would be released) using Solas' own words as evidence. His body may very easily have just formed out of the ether from someone's desire for him to join the living (not body possession or hopping). It sort of explains the wispy/glowy spirit type form that started to come out of Solas before Flemeth died in the epilogue scene.

 

I did want Solas to be a body hopping spirit mage, but Trespesser made it quite clear that he is not like Flemeth. There is no confusion there on my part.

 

[Sable Rhapsody]

Spoiler

 

I think it's pretty interesting that Solas not only saves you regardless of approval, he tells you everything regardless of approval too. Strange coming from someone who would supposedly sacrifice everything to get what he wants. One could argue that he truly thinks nobody can stop him at this point, but I feel like Solas knows better than to underestimate the Inquisitor, or just that he wouldn't want to take a risk during this crucial task.

 

Maybe a part of him really does want to be stopped. Or he wants to give modern Thedas a fighting chance? Who knows, these are just far too tired ramblings. 

 

 

I'm sorry, but anyone who underestimates the Inquisitor (except perhaps a failquisitor who barely scraped by against Cory) is an idiot

 

Spoiler

And to be clear, I don't think Solas is an idiot.  He seems to understand that this is a person he shouldn't mess with, even if he hates them.  The meta-answer for why he spares quizzy is that the story needs to go forward; if he killed low-approval quizzy, there would be no one left with any inkling of what he's going to do, no one capable of providing the springboard for the next game.

 

The in-game answer, I think, could be one of several.  He could want to be challenged no matter what.  For friend/romanced quizzy, I think there's a decent argument that he just can't bring himself to personally kill this person he cares about; quizzy's death is not necessary for his plans to succeed.  He has the resources to thwart them.  It's different from him killing Flemeth, because he had to take her power to move forward with his plans.  But he doesn't require quizzy's death, so he doesn't do it.  He may even be planning on manipulating low-approval quizzy for his own ends.

[Uirebhiril]

About the scar...

 

Spoiler

I'm not sure that should be taken entirely literally. Vallaslin, even the basic version of Mythal's, goes over far more skin than the scar on Solas's face covers. It's possible that the line means exactly what it sounds like, but in a more broad sense.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Spoiler

I think that the hypothesis that Solas was a spirit once is true or that there is a great deal of truth to the hypothesis.

 

Here's why I think that.

 

Spoiler

1) When we see Solas in the Crossroads, we saw him cast spells purely by thought without requiring any form of hand motions except for glowy eyes. We have only witnessed this type of spellcasting twice before. We saw it in DA2 Anders where he is merged with a spirit of Justice. We saw it in DAO when Wynne uses the Vessel of the Spirit ability which causes her entire body to glow blue.

 

2) Solas is a Rift Mage. If your Inquisitor chooses to become a Rift Mage, you can talk to Cole and he approves while saying this:- "Solas is the same, but quieter. The Fade is his friend. He doesn't need to look to know where it goes....Yes. It's different, but familiar. It reminds me of me." Now we know Solas is a dreamer mage but could there be more reasons why he loves the Fade and regards it as his friend ? Cole even says that being a Rift Mage makes the Inquisitor feel spirit-like. Solas is a Rift Mage.

 

I just thought of another conversation with him that makes more sense now. The balcony scene!

 

Spoiler

This is solely speculation based on the theory Solas was a spirit of Wisdom once.

 

He asks of his anchor changed you:

 

"Has it affected you? Changed you in any way? Your mind, your morals, your... spirit?"

 

He pauses at spirit and looks awkward and shy. Could he be asking of his own spiritual essence of Wisdom changed you? And if you reply you don't think so, he sounds disappointed and then says: 

 

"But you have shown a subtlety in your action. A wisdom that goes against everything I know of your people."

 

That makes me wonder if he was trying to see if the Inquisitor too was possibly a spirit reborn human.

 

Spoiler

This. Solas being a spirit once would also explain this Blackwall - Solas banter better.

 

 

Spoiler

It takes a Spirit to know that Spirit sex is not that simple. Notice how he did not answer Blackwall's question definitely. Perhaps when Andruil tied him down and wanted to have sex with him for a year, she was doing it to spirit Solas using her Vallaslin. Mythal then rescued him and Solas burned off Andruil's Vallaslin. 

 

Now Cole's line about "coming but not wanting to..." in Trespasser takes on a whole new meaning.

 

As for Solas at a young age, perhaps Spirits in ancient Elvhenan formed little towns ? Or the more likely explanation is that Solas was a spirit of Wisdom living among Elves in a small village. He was a very talented Spirit of Wisdom since like mortals, not all spirits are equal.

 

Andruil called him to her to...use him...In doing so changed him from Spirit of Wisdom to an ancient Elf of Pride...& Mythal then rescued him ?

 

What do you think ?

[MayriyaNoori]

Ugh.....spiraling further into headcanon hell......

 

Spoiler

 

So......I was sitting around thinking about "Well, what would my Lavellan do after figuring out how to have a sweet arcane warrior spirit arm?" And I thought...I know, she starts going around exploring elvhen ruins trying to piece together any information she can about Solas and the Evanuris in order to figure out the new question of "How does one stop an ancient powerful elf who can roll his eyes and turn people into stone and completely alter the very fabric of space and time?"

 

Then I was like...OOoOoooOooo, interesting little crazy thing that could happen could be Lavellan taking that time travel amulet Alexius made and seeing if she could travel back to ancient times to learn some crazy useful information. Because why not at this point right? I mean, we figure this stuff out or the world ends, so what is there to lose really?

 

Then I was thinking all like....what if my Lavellan got caught? Because she wouldn't want to run into Solas....that could cause problems if he found out that she does a little time hop in order to figure out how to stop him in the future.

 

Then I thought, "Oh crap, what if she got caught? Without vallaslin?" I mean, I imagine that if Solas could remove them...the Evanuris probably had spells to make them show back up to see who a slave belonged to.

 

Then this leads to my Lavellan being put into the hands of June.

 

And every single ancient elf we have seen so far is hot.

 

And what if June turned out to be a pretty nice guy. Like yeah...he has slaves, but he treats them well or something. Not justifying slavery...just stating in perspective like how Dorian explains slavery in Tevinter.

 

And come on, Lavellan would be this super cute little anomaly that just showed up in his world. I mean, if she can draw the attention of one ancient elven god, why wouldn't it happen with another?

 

My Lavellan is doomed in every single situation I theorize. I SUCK at headcanon. Officially.

 

[Sable Rhapsody]

Ugh.....spiraling further into headcanon hell......

 

Spoiler

 

My Lavellan is doomed in every single situation I theorize. I SUCK at headcanon. Officially.

 

 

Well, let's test this theory.

 

Solas survives despite all odds, gets together with Lavellan, and opens a frilly cakes bakery.  Go

[Uirebhiril]

Solas gets upset if you choose to specialize as a Rift Mage? Why?

[BoscoBread]

Solas gets upset if you choose to specialize as a Rift Mage? Why?

that's a bug

[Bayonet Hipshot]

 

Now this is obviously a Dalish fairy tale & the elf Hawke is a mod.

 

Having said that, I think it is too much of a coincidence that in the game where we don't have a Mabari hound as a companion, the Dread Wolf shows up and does his shenanigans.

 

I bet you anything that a Mabari hound, especially a really smart one, would have seen through Solas for what he is right off the bat. Perhaps that is the reason our Inquisitor did not get a Mabari hound.

 

Spoiler

So here's how we stop Solas in the future:- Mabari hounds painted with Kaddis that have caffeine in them.

[midnight tea]

I just thought of another conversation with him that makes more sense now. The balcony scene!

 

Spoiler

This is solely speculation based on the theory Solas was a spirit of Wisdom once.

 

He asks of his anchor changed you:

 

"Has it affected you? Changed you in any way? Your mind, your morals, your... spirit?"

 

He pauses at spirit and looks awkward and shy. Could he be asking of his own spiritual essence of Wisdom changed you? And if you reply you don't think so, he sounds disappointed and then says: 

 

"But you have shown a subtlety in your action. A wisdom that goes against everything I know of your people."

 

That makes me wonder if he was trying to see if the Inquisitor too was possibly a spirit reborn human.

 

Spoiler

I think Solas pausing before ... spirit is him being concerned with how Quizzy reacts, seeing that most of the wolrd doesn't really recognize that probably all living, sentient creatures have a spirit, or were spirits at one time. It's rather heavily implied in the game.

 

I also think it's more what kind spirit Quizzy is or how strong it is. Don't forget, after all, that when Inquisitor tells him "I don't think of myself as different than anyone" he slightly disapproves and tells Quizzy "Perhaps in the form of your body, no."

 

So the difference is actually on... higher/spiritual level, or on a level of Inqusitor's conscious connection to the Fade, making them more - a "real person" in the eyes of Solas.

 

This is also why Solas sounds disappointed - the beginning of the balcony scene is basically his last attempt to try and rationalize Inquisitor being more than he expected - he tries to explain Quizzy being "real" by the orb, but his explanations for it fail.

 

Incidentally, this is his 'friendship' scene, during which he declares he has deep respect of Inquisitor and likely recognizes him as a real person - it's yet to be confirmed, but I'm pretty sure only if we get to his 'friendship' scene we get him to respond in Trespasser to "You don't even see us as people?" with "Not at first. You've shown me that I was wrong...again" and let us try and redeem him.

[MayriyaNoori]

Well, let's test this theory.

 

Solas survives despite all odds, gets together with Lavellan, and opens a frilly cakes bakery.  Go

*ponders situation*

 

 

Okay, maybe not every possible scenario is bad.

 

Much thanks. I need to get out of this hellspiral hole.

[Jayla]

Spoiler

I think that the hypothesis that Solas was a spirit once is true or that there is a great deal of truth to the hypothesis.

 

Here's why I think that.

 

Spoiler

1) When we see Solas in the Crossroads, we saw him cast spells purely by thought without requiring any form of hand motions except for glowy eyes. We have only witnessed this type of spellcasting twice before. We saw it in DA2 Anders where he is merged with a spirit of Justice. We saw it in DAO when Wynne uses the Vessel of the Spirit ability which causes her entire body to glow blue.

 

2) Solas is a Rift Mage. If your Inquisitor chooses to become a Rift Mage, you can talk to Cole and he approves while saying this:- "Solas is the same, but quieter. The Fade is his friend. He doesn't need to look to know where it goes....Yes. It's different, but familiar. It reminds me of me." Now we know Solas is a dreamer mage but could there be more reasons why he loves the Fade and regards it as his friend ? Cole even says that being a Rift Mage makes the Inquisitor feel spirit-like. Solas is a Rift Mage.

 

 

This. Solas being a spirit once would also explain this Blackwall - Solas banter better.

 

-snip video-

 

Spoiler

It takes a Spirit to know that Spirit sex is not that simple. Notice how he did not answer Blackwall's question definitely. Perhaps when Andruil tied him down and wanted to have sex with him for a year, she was doing it to spirit Solas using her Vallaslin. Mythal then rescued him and Solas burned off Andruil's Vallaslin. 

 

Now Cole's line about "coming but not wanting to..." in Trespasser takes on a whole new meaning.

 

As for Solas at a young age, perhaps Spirits in ancient Elvhenan formed little towns ? Or the more likely explanation is that Solas was a spirit of Wisdom living among Elves in a small village. He was a very talented Spirit of Wisdom since like mortals, not all spirits are equal.

 

Andruil called him to her to...use him...In doing so changed him from Spirit of Wisdom to an ancient Elf of Pride...& Mythal then rescued him ?

 

What do you think ?

 

Unrelated, but gods I love that banter between Blackwall and Solas! Blackwall was so buggy for me in my latest playthrough (would get stuck on nothing, and the only way to sort it was to make him jump and then swap back to Quizzy), but I stuck through it just to hear that banter. I love how Solas just says "Ass". xD

 

Related

Spoiler

He says he was Solas first, then Fen'Harel later. Why would he be Wisdom first, then Pride? We have no confirmation that anything Felassan said was more than stories (although I am leaning towards them being true since we know for a fact now he was an agent for Solas).

 

Also with the idea that Solas went from Spirit of Wisdom to Elf of Pride, was he corrupted in the process (given that spirits turned away from their purpose become corrupted)? If so, then I'm not sure I'm into the idea that Solas is corrupted.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Spoiler

He says he was Solas first, then Fen'Harel later. Why would he be Wisdom first, then Pride? We have no confirmation that anything Felassan said was more than stories (although I am leaning towards them being true since we know for a fact now he was an agent for Solas).

 

Also with the idea that Solas went from Spirit of Wisdom to Elf of Pride, was he corrupted in the process (given that spirits turned away from their purpose become corrupted)? If so, then I'm not sure I'm into the idea that Solas is corrupted.

 

Spoiler

I don't think having a physical form necessarily means being corrupted.  It's risky for the spirit in question, and they can walk the path of corruption unless aided--just look at the difference between Asunder!Cole, human!Cole, and spirit!Cole.  By Trespasser human!Cole is different from the spirit he once was, but he's still compassionate, and he's not corrupted.  And back in the day with no Veil to separate the two worlds, crossing over may have been as simple and seamless as opening your eyes.  It's the Veil that makes passage difficult, and corrupts so many spirits into demons.

 

 

Much thanks. I need to get out of this hellspiral hole.

 

I posted some idiotic hellspiral advice a while back, as I was suffering the first Solavellan hellspiral.  Basically, find an island and grab some floaties, because you're here for the long haul  My refuge is the Island of Dorian, Best Mage.

[Kittn]

Spoiler

Yeah but like...he is a person. Cole if made a human. Is a human. He has the same flaws. Same motivators. Solas is "human" so to speak. He is NO different...mostly. But he's less weird than some of the human characters we've met.  

It changes the perception, though.

Spoiler

What I mean is, if he were mostly spirit, his love of the Fade would be more like homesickness and less like fascination. His views on and understanding of spirits would no longer be unique among man/elf/qunari/dwarf-kind because of course a spirit would think other spirits are people. His ability to dream-walk among spirits and befriend them would come to him naturally instead of through skill, talent and understanding.

I dunno. I guess that's what I mean when I said it would somehow lessen some things for me.

A few (dozen?) pages ago, someone touched on the idea that he might have been an actual or symbolic guard-wolf of Mythal's and that's why the Evunaris gave him the nickname. Plug that idea into Cole's statement, and it becomes much more unique and interesting to me. Imagine a loyal, intellegent guard wolf, given a body and branded by Mythal for her purposes. And then, after burning off that brand; bare-faced but free, frolicking, fighting, fierce - a wolf without a leash for the first time in forever.

Anyway, if he was anything else, he doesn't know it. So maybe it doesn't matter in the long run. He's still an amazing character and I wouldn't be any less crazy about him if the spirit thing were true, but the whole idea still just plain bothers me. Same way it bothered me some time ago when folk were theorizing that he was every important elf in history, ever. By making him more, it somehow makes him less. As long as he is Solas, that's enough for me.

[Cee]

Ugh.....spiraling further into headcanon hell......

 

Spoiler

 

So......I was sitting around thinking about "Well, what would my Lavellan do after figuring out how to have a sweet arcane warrior spirit arm?" And I thought...I know, she starts going around exploring elvhen ruins trying to piece together any information she can about Solas and the Evanuris in order to figure out the new question of "How does one stop an ancient powerful elf who can roll his eyes and turn people into stone and completely alter the very fabric of space and time?"

 

Then I was like...OOoOoooOooo, interesting little crazy thing that could happen could be Lavellan taking that time travel amulet Alexius made and seeing if she could travel back to ancient times to learn some crazy useful information. Because why not at this point right? I mean, we figure this stuff out or the world ends, so what is there to lose really?

 

Then I was thinking all like....what if my Lavellan got caught? Because she wouldn't want to run into Solas....that could cause problems if he found out that she does a little time hop in order to figure out how to stop him in the future.

 

Then I thought, "Oh crap, what if she got caught? Without vallaslin?" I mean, I imagine that if Solas could remove them...the Evanuris probably had spells to make them show back up to see who a slave belonged to.

 

Then this leads to my Lavellan being put into the hands of June.

 

And every single ancient elf we have seen so far is hot.

 

And what if June turned out to be a pretty nice guy. Like yeah...he has slaves, but he treats them well or something. Not justifying slavery...just stating in perspective like how Dorian explains slavery in Tevinter.

 

And come on, Lavellan would be this super cute little anomaly that just showed up in his world. I mean, if she can draw the attention of one ancient elven god, why wouldn't it happen with another?

 

My Lavellan is doomed in every single situation I theorize. I SUCK at headcanon. Officially.

 

 

 

 

This....didn't quite go as I had expected to from the beginning. Or maybe this should've been exactly how I expected you to take it.
 

[Qun00]

Spoiler

So, according to the Epilogue, Dalish and City elves alike feel excited by the rumors of a living elven god and travel from all over the world to meet their messiah.

It's gonna be reeeaally awkward when Solas has to tell them "Sorry guys, but you might have misunderstood what my plan is about. Just go home and enjoy the moments you have left, alright?"