153434 réponses à ce sujet

[MayriyaNoori]

Spoiler

Watching her dreams is not the same as watching her constantly and seeing what she does IRL Also - wouldn't that jeopardize all of her plans of trying to at least slow him down, while she searches of a way to change his heart?

 

I think it's implied that, as a Dreamer and powerful ancient elf, Solas does have access to minds of others through dreams, but he doesn't abuse that power. He's too principled for that (for now, at least...). He felt familiarity with Blackwall, but didn't know of his past as Thom Rainier, for example.

 

Therefore, while I think he sometimes just can't help himself to not be drawn to Lavellan - or she to him - while they dream (I think there's something going on that Cole once described to Iron Bull - Bull's pain care for Tamassaran he viewed as mother figure 'connected' them both, which is why Cole could 'read' Tamassaran's pain and worry over Bull), but doesn't directly invades her dream or observes her like Edward Cull... I mean, like a creeper does

Mmmm......

 

Spoiler

 

I feel like there would still be that awkward moment of going to sleep and Lavellan seeing a disgruntled Solas face. Or sad.

 

But then I guess Lavellan could always yell across that immense distance "Don't judge! He doesn't want to destroy everything like someone I know!"

 

Then Solas regrets leaving and decides to not go through with his plans.

 

Mmmm....there we go. The way to save Thedas is for Lavellan to go hook up with someone else.

 

[TanithAeyrs]

Harding and Abelas as LI for DA4!  Yup, it's a fantasy, but a fun one.

[Ramification]

Trespasser spoilers:

Spoiler

This has probably been covered in previous pages but I'm to lazy to go back.  How do you think Lavellan would persuade Solas to abandon his plans?  Somehow I don't see capturing him and locking him up until he capitulates as a viable option.  I have this weird idea for a fic involving a known spy for Fen'Harel employed by the Inquisition for the sole purpose of communicating with Solas.  Lavellan could send him letters, but what effect would they have?  Would he read them, burn them or perhaps reply?  A caged Dread Wolf would never give in, but challenging both Fen' Harel and his followers with ideas....Hmm.

 

Spoiler

The way for her to convince him is by showing him another way to help "fix" the world. That's the hard part. It will take innovation, smarts, empathy and insight. Not brawn. 

 

[midnight tea]

Yeah, I'm hoping that the real reason that the romance with Harding never seemed to take off...

 

Spoiler

(And even in Trespasser, the Inquisitor seems to have still not taken her on an actual date yet)

 

... was because they were saving her to become a companion and love interest in the next game?

 

Spoiler

I think this is a very high possibility, yes. Like - why would they even include her THERE, considering that the post-epilogue scene is just one giant HINT?
 

I mean: Inquisitor's involvement in some capacity, Cassandra and Leliana working with Inky no matter of personal relationship or who's been picked Divine, going to Tevinter... AND Harding. Always there, no matter of the playthrough...

[Brass_Buckles]

Harding and Abelas as LI for DA4!  Yup, it's a fantasy, but a fun one.

 

I'm reasonably sure that if Abelas does appear as a companion in DA4 we should trust him no further than we can throw him.

 

Spoiler

It's reasonable to believe we can stop Solas, but the plan's going to work somehow whatever we do.  Prophecies from previous games suggest that.  Someone's got to be pulling strings to make that happen.  I think that would be Mythal/Flemeth/Morrigan.  Guess who's wearing Mythal's vallaslin still, and therefore must do her bidding?  Even if he wants to go a separate path from Solas, Abelas might have no choice but to betray us.  Exception:  If he gets his vallaslin removed by Solas.  This does not seem to be particularly likely; the man idolized Mythal and I didn't think he seemed put out that he was still serving her.

 

Edited to add:  I would still romance him though.  I just wouldn't expect it to end well...

[midnight tea]

Spoiler

The way for her to convince him is by showing him another way to help "fix" the world. That's the hard part. It will take innovation, smarts, empathy and insight. Not brawn. 

 

 

Spoiler

I can't help but to think that there will be the The Dark Knight thing there... Like, remember the Joker's plan to show Batman just how rotten Gotham's people are? And eventually the people proving Joker wrong?

 

I don't think Solas would be that devious or he'd intentionally set something like this up - but I think it will most likely be a "test" of either cooperation, empathy,  loyalty or capability to change for the better. I'm secretly hoping for a scenario where the main DA4 hero and his/her team would have to choose between betraying and helping Inquisitor...

[NightSymphony]

I'm reasonably sure that if Abelas does appear as a companion in DA4 we should trust him no further than we can throw him.

 

Spoiler

It's reasonable to believe we can stop Solas, but the plan's going to work somehow whatever we do.  Prophecies from previous games suggest that.  Someone's got to be pulling strings to make that happen.  I think that would be Mythal/Flemeth/Morrigan.  Guess who's wearing Mythal's vallaslin still, and therefore must do her bidding?  Even if he wants to go a separate path from Solas, Abelas might have no choice but to betray us.  Exception:  If he gets his vallaslin removed by Solas.  This does not seem to be particularly likely; the man idolized Mythal and I didn't think he seemed put out that he was still serving her.

 

Edited to add:  I would still romance him though.  I just wouldn't expect it to end well...

Spoiler

What if we drank from the well? We might have no choice but to do her bidding either.

[midnight tea]

I'm reasonably sure that if Abelas does appear as a companion in DA4 we should trust him no further than we can throw him.

 

Spoiler

It's reasonable to believe we can stop Solas, but the plan's going to work somehow whatever we do.  Prophecies from previous games suggest that.  Someone's got to be pulling strings to make that happen.  I think that would be Mythal/Flemeth/Morrigan.  Guess who's wearing Mythal's vallaslin still, and therefore must do her bidding?  Even if he wants to go a separate path from Solas, Abelas might have no choice but to betray us.  Exception:  If he gets his vallaslin removed by Solas.  This does not seem to be particularly likely; the man idolized Mythal and I didn't think he seemed put out that he was still serving her.

 

Edited to add:  I would still romance him though.  I just wouldn't expect it to end well...

 

Spoiler

Oh, I think the world is at the precipice of change REGARDLESS of what either Solas, Mythal or Inquisitor wants. The world will change either way - it must to survive, likely. There's a New Age coming, on many levels - question is how much the world will indeed will change, or whether there exists a more optimal option, which would be beneficial to most people, not just those on the side of Solas, or Inquisitor or whoever else is there that we're going to find about yet.

[FernRain]

I think I just found something that would explain the Elven flying wagons. Flying Halla. 

 

 

If the halla are anything like Preytons, we should be scared:

 

A winged deer, always antlered and known to kill humans by goring. They are exceedingly dangerous and can be recognized by their human shadow, which they only lose upon killing a person. If they have their own shadow they are safe to approach however this is still inadvisable as some gain a taste for human flesh, becoming carnivorous.

[Sifr]

Spoiler

I think this is a very high possibility, yes. Like - why would they even include her THERE, considering that the post-epilogue scene is just one giant HINT?
 

I mean: Inquisitor's involvement in some capacity, Cassandra and Leliana working with Inky no matter of personal relationship or who's been picked Divine, going to Tevinter... AND Harding. Always there, no matter of the playthrough...

 

Harding is also the perfect Inquisition agent for another reason;

 

Spoiler

Dwarves cannot dream. This means that Solas or any of his other dreamer agents have absolutely no way to ferret out any sensitive information from her while she's asleep, making her (and other Inquisition dwarven members) extremely useful to carry sensitive information without any leaks.

[TanithAeyrs]

Spoiler

The way for her to convince him is by showing him another way to help "fix" the world. That's the hard part. It will take innovation, smarts, empathy and insight. Not brawn. 

 

 

Spoiler

Yup, I think her goals at the end of Trespasser would be less military opposition and more research into alternatives along with infiltration of his organization to spread dissent and slow his plans.  And it seems remarkably short-sighted of Solas to plan to rend the veil asunder, no doubt destroying many of his spirit friends along with potentially damaging the remnants of Elvhen civilization.  His plan would not bring back the world he knew, it is gone forever and in trying to recreate it he sets himself on the same path as the "gods" he despised.  Perhaps he understood Corypheus so well because he also balances on the edge of despair and clings to his plan only because it is familiar and provides a goal.  Lavellan would need to understand this, to realize that it was pride and compassion and love that drove him and now he is left with stubborn pride, sorrow and vengeance.  The solution is likely to be both complicated and bittersweet at best. 

[MoonDrummer]

I made a thing, it sums up my feelings about Trespasser quite well. 

Spoiler

[The Lone Shadow]

Spoiler

What if Lavellan accidentally saw Iron Bull naked and the rest of the day she couldn't stop thinking about it. So much so that it transfers into her dreams and when Solas pops up to see her he sees  Iron Bull strutting around in the nude covered in chocolate sauce. It would be a good way to keep Solas out of her head at night, like Sera constantly thinking of genitals to keep Cole out of her head.

[Brass_Buckles]

Spoiler

What if we drank from the well? We might have no choice but to do her bidding either.

 

Spoiler

I have also thought of that, and I think it might be an interesting twist if that's what happens.  But in that case, you can at least count on the Inquisitor most likely surviving.

 

My theory (and it's probably totally wrong because it's entirely predictable) for what comes next:

 

We might get Abelas in our party.  IF SO, he appears to be working for us as a double agent, and it's unclear if he's working for us or Solas.  Eventually we discover that he was working for neither, but for Mythal.

 

It's a game.  Our goal is to stop Solas, either by killing him or convincing him not to do crazy stuff.  And because it's a game, we're going to succed.  We don't know all the plot and characters and places that will be involved, but we can count on succeeding, unless we're just a moment too late, or we can only manage to make Solas change his mind on the method, or something like that.

 

But, in-game prophecies tell us that the Veil is going away anyway.  It's going to.  We can't stop it.  Thedas as we know it will end, and a new Thedas will rise in its place.  The ancient elven gods are going to be freed.

 

Assuming I'm right and we stop Solas (because it's a game and of course we are going to win or what's the point in beating the game?), and it isn't just some fluke of last-minute timing that we just barely fail to stop him... who's pulling the strings?

 

Well, there are two possibilities, and one's far more likely than the other.  The first is that Solas has followers capable of either working together, or as individuals, well enough that they can take over his plan.  This requires that they know the full plan, and we know Solas is not very trusting.  It seems unlikely.  The second possibility is that Mythal, or Flemeth, or Morrigan--however she appears now--sees Solas not accomplishing the goal she set for him, and she moves to take over.  If Solas is convinced to stop rather than killed, he will now be on your side in opposition to Mythal.

 

What would Mythal's motive be for this?  Vengeance.  And it might not just be against her killers (Dirthamen in particular possibly?).  She said the world was betrayed.  Solas could be the world's betrayer, or maybe it was the other elven gods.  If it's Solas, he's in for a world of hurt since he trapped the pantheon and betrayed the world for her sake in the first place.  Either way:  her motive is vengeance.  Whatever torment Solas is putting the enavuris through, it's not enough for Mythal.  She will unleash them on the world, blinded by her own rage.  And then we'll have to stop them with the next protagonist.

 

So when Mythal's hand is revealed, if Abelas is with us we will see him turn against us (even if he doesn't want to, even if he looks like a kicked puppy over it) because Mythal tells him to.  Same will happen with Morrigan-who-drank-the-Well, assuming she is not Mythal, herself (in which case she acts against us because she IS Mythal)--we don't know if this will be the act of Morrigan or some other splinter of Mythal's spirit.  And it will also become clear that the Inquisitor who drank the Well will now be pursuing Mythal's goals, and acting as she wishes.  The Inquisitor will now be an antagonist against which the new protagonist must battle.

 

If you didn't take the Well, Abelas and Morrigan betray you.  If you did, they don't, but that's because you're on their side.  If you convinced Solas to stop, and did not drink the Well, he will now be on your team.  If you did drink the Well, he will be your enemy (because you convinced him to stop and now you're doing what you showed him he shouldn't).  It may not be possible to kill him.  If he survives a more aggressive "stop Solas" effort, expect him to be your enemy if you did not drink the Well, and your ally if you did.

 

Only the Inquisitor won't be you anymore, if you drank the Well.  No, you'll be the new protagonist who suddenly has to take down your previous protagonist.  And that will be both deliciously plotty and horrible.

 

Will this part of the plot happen mid-game?  End of game?  I don't know.  It's just a guess at any rate, and I could be very much wrong about it.

 

Just my take on what I think is to come.  Again, it's simple enough that I am probably wrong.  We will be thrown for a loop or encounter a twist somewhere, somehow, that we didn't anticipate.  The plot might be something entirely other than what it appears that the plot will be.

[midnight tea]

Spoiler

Yup, I think her goals at the end of Trespasser would be less military opposition and more research into alternatives along with infiltration of his organization to spread dissent and slow his plans.  And it seems remarkably short-sighted of Solas to plan to rend the veil asunder, no doubt destroying many of his spirit friends along with potentially damaging the remnants of Elvhen civilization.  His plan would not bring back the world he knew, it is gone forever and in trying to recreate it he sets himself on the same path as the "gods" he despised.  Perhaps he understood Corypheus so well because he also balances on the edge of despair and clings to his plan only because it is familiar and provides a goal.  Lavellan would need to understand this, to realize that it was pride and compassion and love that drove him and now he is left with stubborn pride, sorrow and vengeance.  The solution is likely to be both complicated and bittersweet at best. 

 

Spoiler

I don't think Solas is THAT short-sighted, given that he is indeed written as really smart (even if some of his plans backfire due to him trying to achieve the near-impossible). I think he knows exactly what it will cost the world, including the Fade part. Besides - don't forget that Cole mentions in Treaspasser that the spirits now flee to the farthest recesses of the Fade, because they're afraid of another tearing of the Veil. It's AS IF someone has warned them that this will happen...

 

Also - I'm still not convinced that Solas wants to bring Elvenhan or the way things were exactly prior to creation of the Veil. He destroyed it once already to save his people (even if for a terrible price) - so I don't think it's his goal. He wants to bring "the world of the elves" and restore conscious connection of people to the Fade. That itself won't restore the lost elven empire.

[Cee]

Spoiler

When the Inquisitor's mark flares up when talking with the advisers, does anyone not choose the "Can one thing in this ****** world stay fixed?!" option? I'm curious about what they say, but I can't resist that juicy outburst.

 

I may also love Alix Wilton Regan (British Inquisitor's VA).

 

Nope, totally OOC for mine.

 

Spoiler

 

I think I had her go with "I'm not sure what's going on" or whatever it was.

 

Alix Wilton Regan did such a great job. I thought she did well in the main game but some of the line delivery was occasionally (and this could be the direction) very slightly flat on occasion, but in Trespasser, just great all around.

 

 

[Solas]

join me in sad feels

Spoiler

source

[TanithAeyrs]

Spoiler

Another thought I had.  With all the foreshadowing of the veil coming down throughout the DA lore there is nothing that says it has to be the massive cataclysm that Solas has planned.  Perhaps there are other, less apocalyptic ways for the veil to be dismanteled.  Probably nothing that won't cause major disruption, but destroying the world seems pretty extreme for something that we are unlikely to be able to prevent.  Could Mythal's plan be a way to bring the veil down gradually? Could there be ways to slowly thin the veil and avoid creating demons in the process?  Is the war between Tevinter and the Qunari going to escalate with veil manipulations on both sides until the veil itself is fundamentally altered or dispersed in a different way?  Lots of ways to fulfill the foreshadowing, many of them entirely separate from Solas' plans.  Could the Dread Wolf's pride prevent him from seeing some essential piece of the puzzle?  The wait commences and the wild theories abound and breed like nugs.

 

[NightSymphony]

Spoiler

I have also thought of that, and I think it might be an interesting twist if that's what happens.  But in that case, you can at least count on the Inquisitor most likely surviving.

 

My theory (and it's probably totally wrong because it's entirely predictable) for what comes next:

 

We might get Abelas in our party.  IF SO, he appears to be working for us as a double agent, and it's unclear if he's working for us or Solas.  Eventually we discover that he was working for neither, but for Mythal.

 

It's a game.  Our goal is to stop Solas, either by killing him or convincing him not to do crazy stuff.  And because it's a game, we're going to succed.  We don't know all the plot and characters and places that will be involved, but we can count on succeeding, unless we're just a moment too late, or we can only manage to make Solas change his mind on the method, or something like that.

 

But, in-game prophecies tell us that the Veil is going away anyway.  It's going to.  We can't stop it.  Thedas as we know it will end, and a new Thedas will rise in its place.  The ancient elven gods are going to be freed.

 

Assuming I'm right and we stop Solas (because it's a game and of course we are going to win or what's the point in beating the game?), and it isn't just some fluke of last-minute timing that we just barely fail to stop him... who's pulling the strings?

 

Well, there are two possibilities, and one's far more likely than the other.  The first is that Solas has followers capable of either working together, or as individuals, well enough that they can take over his plan.  This requires that they know the full plan, and we know Solas is not very trusting.  It seems unlikely.  The second possibility is that Mythal, or Flemeth, or Morrigan--however she appears now--sees Solas not accomplishing the goal she set for him, and she moves to take over.  If Solas is convinced to stop rather than killed, he will now be on your side in opposition to Mythal.

 

What would Mythal's motive be for this?  Vengeance.  And it might not just be against her killers (Dirthamen in particular possibly?).  She said the world was betrayed.  Solas could be the world's betrayer, or maybe it was the other elven gods.  If it's Solas, he's in for a world of hurt since he trapped the pantheon and betrayed the world for her sake in the first place.  Either way:  her motive is vengeance.  Whatever torment Solas is putting the enavuris through, it's not enough for Mythal.  She will unleash them on the world, blinded by her own rage.  And then we'll have to stop them with the next protagonist.

 

So when Mythal's hand is revealed, if Abelas is with us we will see him turn against us (even if he doesn't want to, even if he looks like a kicked puppy over it) because Mythal tells him to.  Same will happen with Morrigan-who-drank-the-Well, assuming she is not Mythal, herself (in which case she acts against us because she IS Mythal)--we don't know if this will be the act of Morrigan or some other splinter of Mythal's spirit.  And it will also become clear that the Inquisitor who drank the Well will now be pursuing Mythal's goals, and acting as she wishes.  The Inquisitor will now be an antagonist against which the new protagonist must battle.

 

If you didn't take the Well, Abelas and Morrigan betray you.  If you did, they don't, but that's because you're on their side.  If you convinced Solas to stop, and did not drink the Well, he will now be on your team.  If you did drink the Well, he will be your enemy (because you convinced him to stop and now you're doing what you showed him he shouldn't).  It may not be possible to kill him.  If he survives a more aggressive "stop Solas" effort, expect him to be your enemy if you did not drink the Well, and your ally if you did.

 

Only the Inquisitor won't be you anymore, if you drank the Well.  No, you'll be the new protagonist who suddenly has to take down your previous protagonist.  And that will be both deliciously plotty and horrible.

 

Will this part of the plot happen mid-game?  End of game?  I don't know.  It's just a guess at any rate, and I could be very much wrong about it.

 

Just my take on what I think is to come.  Again, it's simple enough that I am probably wrong.  We will be thrown for a loop or encounter a twist somewhere, somehow, that we didn't anticipate.  The plot might be something entirely other than what it appears that the plot will be.

I hope you have just predicted the future...because I love this, all of it!

[LadyEledhwen]

So Patrick Weekes just said that : 

 

 

 

 

Nope, I'm totally fine. Nothing to see here. 

[TanithAeyrs]

Weekes is an evil, evil man.  And I love him for it. 

[Brass_Buckles]

Spoiler

Another thought I had.  With all the foreshadowing of the veil coming down throughout the DA lore there is nothing that says it has to be the massive cataclysm that Solas has planned.  Perhaps there are other, less apocalyptic ways for the veil to be dismanteled.  Probably nothing that won't cause major disruption, but destroying the world seems pretty extreme for something that we are unlikely to be able to prevent.  Could Mythal's plan be a way to bring the veil down gradually? Could there be ways to slowly thin the veil and avoid creating demons in the process?  Is the war between Tevinter and the Qunari going to escalate with veil manipulations on both sides until the veil itself is fundamentally altered or dispersed in a different way?  Lots of ways to fulfill the foreshadowing, many of them entirely separate from Solas' plans.  Could the Dread Wolf's pride prevent him from seeing some essential piece of the puzzle?  The wait commences and the wild theories abound and breed like nugs.

 

 

Spoiler

I know a lot of people hate to think that Flemeth/Mythal might be a grey character, but to me it's been clear she's unbalanced and vengeance-driven from the beginning.

 

No; we will stop Solas, and a better way won't come from Mythal.

 

If things happened easily, then there wouldn't be space for another game after DA4.  I think the developers said there were plans for something like 7 games total, but who knows?  DA4 or DA5 could always be the final game, and that is assuming DA4 gets made (which it probably will but we have zero confirmation and BioWare has a lot of other projects going on right now).  Nothing is certain.

 

So no, the Veil will be taken down, and while it might not end the world, the event will be cataclysmic.  Either it will usher in the "real" plot of DA4 when we discover Solas was not the real threat after all, or it will end DA4 and give us a plot setup for DA5.

 

I have no idea what the next plot will be when the Veil is taken down, unless we're intended to slay the ancient elven gods at that point.  Therefore, it stands to reason that the ancient elven gods being freed would happen at the end of DA4, rather than the middle--but there's no guarantee of that.

 

If there's a game after that, it will be set in a world with political power violently unbalanced, everyone in possession of magic (so Circle or College mages are effectively irrelevant), Titans waking, and possibly the two (or three if we include that mysterious heretofore unknown eighth one) remaining Old Gods waking and rising.  We may get another Blight.

 

It seems that all along, Dragon Age has been the reverse of the typical fantasy story.  In most fantasy, you see a world where magic is dying out, often being replaced by technology or even the world outright ending.  In Dragon Age, we've got something unique in that it appears to be the story of magic returning to the world.  So will our final plot involve sealing magic away again with a brand new Veil?

 

Hard to say...

[NeverlandHunter]

join me in sad feels

Spoiler

source

Oh my gracious. I never read that book,

Spoiler

was that Solas that killed him? That's so cold

[dawnstone]

join me in sad feels

Spoiler

source

Elves. They are nothing but fountains of pain.