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[Illyria]

Yup.  One heart tartare, coming right up.

 

Between the Bull feels and the Solas feels and WEEEEEEEKES, I think it's blanket fort time.

 

If we're going for Team Weekes Feels:

 

Cole.

 

I don't even need to elaborate.

[Vlk3]

About Solas, Iron Bull and  everything in Tresspasser:

 

Spoiler

This all makes me both want to replay the game again and never to starta  new playthrough.

Replay the game: see everything in new light, finally understand what Cole is talking about and learning much more about what is actually happening

Never touch it again: I fear that I will never look at the romance the same way again. Everything will be a lie now, everything will remind me of this 'world full of Tranquil' line... sigh... I think I want to remember the whole game, especially my canon playthrough the way it was without all the revelations from Tresspasser.

 

About Iron Bull - I'm not surprised, but it's still sad that he truly can betray the Inquisitor and just be this mindless qunari drone. 

[Solas]

chibielf yeah it was mentioned some pages ago and  tbh

[NeverlandHunter]

See - a Dalish elf and a mage is exactly the sort of person that should have assassins leaping out at them.

 

For that Zev pic - two seconds later he's tripped over something and fallen off a wall.  His pointy hat has managed to accidently stab his target.

XD poor Zevran! At least he looks sexy doing it!

 

Speaking for the suckers...

 

Spoiler

Here's the thing--it gets brought up once, and then never again.  The rest of the time, he's your big, funny, disarming goofball.  And he's so easygoing and chill and willing to answer questions.  I think the post going around tumblr mentioned it: his whole schtick up until the dreadnought was calculated to drop your guard, both as a player and as the Inquisitor.  And he's so good at it that it didn't trigger any warning bells for me--even though it totally should have.  Because he'd probably convinced himself to believe it too, until that moment of crisis.

He fooled me so well I didn't even think of this up until now! 

Spoiler

I like Vivienne's reaction to I.B.'s betrayal. She says something like "Clever boy. Always calling me ma'am."

[drosophila]

Yup.  One heart tartare, coming right up.

 

Between the Bull feels and the Solas feels and WEEEEEEEKES, I think it's blanket fort time.

 

 

I'm supposed to be a Solas apologist and full of feels tonight for writing purposes. I cannot seek refuge in the blanket fort right now. I. Must. Suffer. 

[Illyria]

About Solas, Iron Bull and  everything in Tresspasser:

 

Spoiler

This all makes me both want to replay the game again and never to starta  new playthrough.

Replay the game: see everything in new light, finally understand what Cole is talking about and learning much more about what is actually happening

Never touch it again: I fear that I will never look at the romance the same way again. Everything will be a lie now, everything will remind me of this 'world full of Tranquil' line... sigh... I think I want to remember the whole game, especially my canon playthrough the way it was without all the revelations from Tresspasser.

 

About Iron Bull - I'm not surprised, but it's still sad that he truly can betray the Inquisitor and just be this mindless qunari drone. 

 

Spoiler

It was pointed out in a peice of Bull meta I read that Bull must be able to remember everything he did wtih the Inquisitor and the Chargers, but thanks to the re-education he now has no emotional attatchements to those memories.

[electricfish]

This is so true. I think deep down my Lavellan knew something was off with Solas, but let her feelings blind her. How else wouldn't she be suspicious about him never answering her questions about his past. It's because she didn't ask, because she knew something was off.

How do you think

Spoiler

Solas returning the Veil will affect the world? Why would it kill so many people? And were some humans magic before the Veil? Were all of them just like the elves?

SO MANY QUESTIONS

 

 

I think I may have brought this potential side effect in an earlier post but,

Spoiler

as an immediate effect, think of the Breach and how it affected mages. It doesn't get brought to the fore during the game, but people do reference the fact that mages can get immediately possessed if they are too close to the Breach. They can spontaneously combust and/or explode via proximity. Those are the people who are USED to magic and how it affects their bodies. They are TRAINED people.

 Imagine what would happen if a non-mage suddenly had a full connection to the Fade from the Veil dropping. Not everyone will combust, but a fair amount might just from the overload. The panic from suddenly shooting lightning out of your fingers could draw a demon which immediately possesses you, therefore becoming an abomination. Then there's the fact that most people see spirits as demons. They don't see wisdom and purpose, they see pride and desire, and spirits tend to reflect the emotions and expectations of those around them.  

[Jayla]

Btw I don't know if this is related to anything we're talking about now, but I've just remembered that for all Solas

Spoiler

not seeing people as people

But when he first woke up he did try to reach out to his people, but the Dalish he encountered rejected him. As much as we love the "WHAT UP NERDS YOU'RE ALL WRONG" speech, we don't exactly know how he approached the Dalish and what means he used to try and win them over. Obviously it went down like a led balloon, so that can't have helped with the whole issue.

 

How fundamental it was in the grand scheme of things, I don't know, but I feel like we pin an awful lot on Solas just being block-headed (which he is, not denying that) without applying the external factors too.

 

My brain's mush, I hope I'm making sense.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Spoiler

It was pointed out in a peice of Bull meta I read that Bull must be able to remember everything he did wtih the Inquisitor and the Chargers, but thanks to the re-education he now has no emotional attatchements to those memories.

 
Which is absolutely f***ing horrifying.
 

Spoiler

The only other time I've encountered re-education that complete in a video game was Baldur's Gate 2, with Phaere the drow.  Drow.  The evil, spider-worshipping dark elves for whom degradation, abuse, and torture are funtimes.  What the actual triple f**k, qunari.

Spoiler

I like Vivienne's reaction to I.B.'s betrayal. She says something like "Clever boy. Always calling me ma'am."

Spoiler

While IMHO Divine Viv is a disaster, I love what she says if Bull turns and she's Divine. She decides to call for an Exalted March on Par Vollen right then and there.

[Shari'El]

I think I may have brought this potential side effect in an earlier post but,

Spoiler

as an immediate effect, think of the Breach and how it affected mages. It doesn't get brought to the fore during the game, but people do reference the fact that mages can get immediately possessed if they are too close to the Breach. They can spontaneously combust and/or explode via proximity. Those are the people who are USED to magic and how it affects their bodies. They are TRAINED people.

 Imagine what would happen if a non-mage suddenly had a full connection to the Fade from the Veil dropping. Not everyone will combust, but a fair amount might just from the overload. The panic from suddenly shooting lightning out of your fingers could draw a demon which immediately possesses you, therefore becoming an abomination. Then there's the fact that most people see spirits as demons. They don't see wisdom and purpose, they see pride and desire, and spirits tend to reflect the emotions and expectations of those around them.  

 

We don't really know how it would be 

 

Spoiler

If the Veil will be dropped I think spirits and demons will no longer be an issue (at least in a "LET ME POSSES YOU" and "I WANT YOUR BODY" kind of way). Also, dropping the Veil could mean something more, like spirit connecting with mind, perhaps people who are open minded enough will be able to handle themselves. I'm pretty sure people will change, like in the horrible-spine-chilling-synthesis ending in ME3, they just change.

It's not only magic coming back, the fact magic will come back is possibly a side-effect of the actual effect of the sundering of the Veil.

 

Lastly, Cullen was, for example, concerned about having so many mages around the breach, but nothing actually happened.

Possession is something the mage themselves partially control and are inclined to do so when pressured or feel strong fear/despair/rage etc.

[NeverlandHunter]

@Neverland 

It's a little bit of conceit showing. You are a symbol as the Inquisitor. A powerful one, but still just a symbol despite the very real and immediate effect you have on the world. To a servant, you're essentially just the Maker with a face. To a solder who has never seen you, you're Andraste with a face. It's like saying, "how could anyone disobey the principal when he says we should do our best in school?"

 

Spoiler

As far as all the elven agents Solas picks up, the Inquisition may have saved the world in total, but they have not specifically made a significant impact in how elves are treated or regarded. Even as a Dalish. Helping Briala is a good step, but there have been no fundamental changes otherwise in perception. To an impoverished city elf or a Dalish clan who wants to be more action oriented, actively helping a cause (and a god) specifically for the betterment of elves and the immediate satisfaction of changing the status quo seems like a much more tempting offer.

I do think I was a bit naive to think that there wouldn't be spies in the Inquisition, but I don't think the principal metaphor works in this situation.

The Inquisitor inspired people, she was a symbol of hope for the hopeless, a messenger of this world's equivalent of Jesus Christ! If real people like Hitler and Jim Jones can convince people to become hapless followers (in Hitler's case without even having met many of them), then why wouldn't my honest to goodness good person Inquisitor inspire such blind loyalty? I mean, she does with some people no doubt, but all the people of the Qun and the agents how couldn't they see her brilliant-awesome-she-only-wants-to-help-youness. 

...

I don't take betrayal well.

On the other hand

Spoiler

My world state has Tabris's cousin a Bann (if that wasn't retconned), Briala in power, Leliana as divine, and two powerful elf leaders heroes/symbols in the past decade. How can so many elves be so willing to side with Solas?!?? Change was coming!! Rawr, frustrated about this game.

[chibielf]

I'm curious. Hypothetically speaking, if Weekes had chosen to include a love scene between Solas and Lavellan, where and when would it of taken place in the base game? I bet it would of been heartbreakingly romantic.

[MayriyaNoori]

We don't really know how it would be 

 

Spoiler

If the Veil will be dropped I think spirits and demons will no longer be an issue (at least in a "LET ME POSSES YOU" and "I WANT YOUR BODY" kind of way). Also, dropping the Veil could mean something more, like spirit connecting with mind, perhaps people who are open minded enough will be able to handle themselves. I'm pretty sure people will change, like in the horrible-spine-chilling-synthesis ending in ME3, they just change.

It's not only magic coming back, the fact magic will come back is possibly a side-effect of the actual effect of the sundering of the Veil.

 

Lastly, Cullen was, for example, concerned about having so many mages around the breach, but nothing actually happened.

Possession is something the mage themselves partially control and are inclined to do so when pressured or feel strong fear/despair/rage etc.

I don't know if this has been mentioned....but.....

 

Spoiler

 

What would happen to people like Anders/Justice if the Veil collapsed......if he is still alive of course.

 

I mean......would someone like that fuse with the spirit they have in them? SInce the two dimensions are fusing back together sorta.....

 

......Would Anders become like a new Evanuris/Ancient elf person?

 

 

......I think that's not good. I think. Not sure.

 

[midnight tea]

TBH I'm not really sure why some people are so shocked over Bull's betrayal. One of the big themes in Inquisition is identity and identity crisis, and Iron Bull's case smelled of identity crisis and standing at the precipice of dramatic change from a mile away. Him being Ben-Hassarath, a spy and a person coming from culture that eradicated individuality only added more punch to that smell.

 

Even when I played the game first time, with limited knowledge of the Qun (since I was new to the franchise), it wasn't really hard to guess what may happen - even more so, I tested sacrificing Chargers once just to see what would happen and seeing the scene after the quest and Iron Bull's tarot card changed to one marching among faceless Qunari (the banter from companions was also pretty different and suggestive), it was pretty obvious that I will never sacrifice Chargers, at least in my 'good'/'smart' playthrough.

 

I have to admit, I'm also pretty surprised people are surprised that Blackwall made to be Gray Warden doesn't get a particularly good ending as well...

[Jayla]

In regards to Bull, if you ever sacrifice the Chargers, you deserve everything you get (in game). Krem is just too lovely.

 

In regards to the Veil:

Spoiler

With its collapse, a demon would have no need to possess anymore, really. They would be able to come into the waking world and affect it as readily as they would the Fade. The only demons you would need to worry about then are the likes of Nightmare who would fudge things up because he's a greedy git.

 

And a quick note on Felassan:

Spoiler

Ey, do we think then that during the time Solas was reaching out to Dalish clans after waking up, Felassan was one of the few who didn't reject him? It would explain the Fen'Harel fanboyism, and would mean Felassan is a modern elf. Apologies if this is blatantly obvious. I just thought of it. xD

[panamakira]

Spoiler

Speaking of betrayal,

I've been thinking a lot about the "Iron Bull is a liar" tumblr post that someone linked here or on twitter and I can't even look at him the same way now.

And I didn't even have him betray me.

What post? Mind sharing a link?

[AutumnOracle]

I have serious Bull feels after Trespasser. 

 

Spoiler

Solas's comments on the Qun and Iron Bull are now deeply ironic.  Because both of them had the opportunity to walk away from a perceived duty that was going to consume them.  Tal-Vashoth Bull listened to the Inquisitor.  Solas didn't.

Yet.

[Illyria]

 
Which is absolutely f***ing horrifying.
 

Spoiler

The only other time I've encountered re-education that complete in a video game was Baldur's Gate 2, with Phaere the drow.  Drow.  The evil, spider-worshipping dark elves for whom degradation, abuse, and torture are funtimes.  What the actual triple f**k, qunari.

Spoiler

While IMHO Divine Viv is a disaster, I love what she says if Bull turns and she's Divine. She decides to call for an Exalted March on Par Vollen right then and there.

 

I'll have to see if I can dig up that meta and share the whole thing.  I've read some excellent Bull meta recently.

 

I'm curious. Hypothetically speaking, if Weekes had chosen to include a love scene between Solas and Levellan, where and when would it of taken place in the base game? I bet it would of been heartbreakingly romantic.

 

While in my canon they slept together at Halamshiral, I think a canon love scene would've taken place towards the end of the game, after the non-heartbreaking Crestwood scene.

[AutumnOracle]

I do think I was a bit naive to think that there wouldn't be spies in the Inquisition, but I don't think the principal metaphor works in this situation.

The Inquisitor inspired people, she was a symbol of hope for the hopeless, a messenger of this world's equivalent of Jesus Christ! If real people like Hitler and Jim Jones can convince people to become hapless followers (in Hitler's case without even having met many of them), then why wouldn't my honest to goodness good person Inquisitor inspire such blind loyalty? I mean, she does with some people no doubt, but all the people of the Qun and the agents how couldn't they see her brilliant-awesome-she-only-wants-to-help-youness. 

...

I don't take betrayal well.

On the other hand

Spoiler

My world state has Tabris's cousin a Bann (if that wasn't retconned), Briala in power, Leliana as divine, and two powerful elf leaders heroes/symbols in the past decade. How can so many elves be so willing to side with Solas?!?? Change was coming!! Rawr, frustrated about this game.

 

 

Uhm I two elf leaders as well.  I sincerely hope he's having a tougher time *stabbing me in the back* because of it  .

[NeverlandHunter]

I think I may have brought this potential side effect in an earlier post but,

Spoiler

as an immediate effect, think of the Breach and how it affected mages. It doesn't get brought to the fore during the game, but people do reference the fact that mages can get immediately possessed if they are too close to the Breach. They can spontaneously combust and/or explode via proximity. Those are the people who are USED to magic and how it affects their bodies. They are TRAINED people.

 Imagine what would happen if a non-mage suddenly had a full connection to the Fade from the Veil dropping. Not everyone will combust, but a fair amount might just from the overload. The panic from suddenly shooting lightning out of your fingers could draw a demon which immediately possesses you, therefore becoming an abomination. Then there's the fact that most people see spirits as demons. They don't see wisdom and purpose, they see pride and desire, and spirits tend to reflect the emotions and expectations of those around them.  

Spoiler

What about the rest electricfish?    How did the Veil affect humans?? *grabs popcorn and eagerly awaits answers* O.O I need answers and I like yours.

 

 
Which is absolutely f***ing horrifying.
 

Spoiler

The only other time I've encountered re-education that complete in a video game was Baldur's Gate 2, with Phaere the drow.  Drow.  The evil, spider-worshipping dark elves for whom degradation, abuse, and torture are funtimes.  What the actual triple f**k, qunari.

Spoiler

While IMHO Divine Viv is a disaster, I love what she says if Bull turns and she's Divine. She decides to call for an Exalted March on Par Vollen right then and there.

Woah, that's crazy! I haven't made her divine yet but I'm planning to for my mage Trevelyan playthrough. Seriously though, that's crazy, Thedas white divine countries aren't healed/strong enough to fight that kind of fight!

[Illyria]

In regards to Bull, if you ever sacrifice the Chargers, you deserve everything you get (in game). Krem is just too lovely.

 

In regards to the Veil:

Spoiler

With its collapse, a demon would have no need to possess anymore, really. They would be able to come into the waking world and affect it as readily as they would the Fade. The only demons you would need to worry about then are the likes of Nightmare who would fudge things up because he's a greedy git.

 

And a quick note on Felassan:

Spoiler

Ey, do we think then that during the time Solas was reaching out to Dalish clans after waking up, Felassan was one of the few who didn't reject him? It would explain the Fen'Harel fanboyism, and would mean Felassan is a modern elf. Apologies if this is blatantly obvious. I just thought of it. xD

 

Spoiler

Based on how Felassan talks he's not a modern elf. I think he's an old friend of Solas' from the Dread Wolf days.

[panamakira]

Weekes was asked about this and said it's because he's hurting.

Oh.

 

Of course he's hurting. As conflicted as I am with some of Solas decisions in the past, I've always imagined he hurts as much as Lavellan even more since he's such a hot mess.

[_Lucinia]

This is an excellent read on the whole Iron Bull thing.  Trespasser spoilers, obvs.

 

http://shallow-betwe...st/128769818344

[Illyria]

Spoiler

What about the rest electricfish?    How did the Veil affect humans?? *grabs popcorn and eagerly awaits answers* O.O I need answers and I like yours.

 

Woah, that's crazy! I haven't made her divine yet but I'm planning to for my mage Trevelyan playthrough. Seriously though, that's crazy, Thedas white divine countries aren't healed/strong enough to fight that kind of fight!

 

Spoiler

If you go pro mage then she also abuses her power to take revenge on the rebellion and utterly crushes it (we're talking hardened!Leliana level of blood here). What's left is spared 'out of respect to the Inquisitor' and forms the Collage of Enchanters.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I do think I was a bit naive to think that there wouldn't be spies in the Inquisition, but I don't think the principal metaphor works in this situation.
The Inquisitor inspired people, she was a symbol of hope for the hopeless, a messenger of this world's equivalent of Jesus Christ! If real people like Hitler and Jim Jones can convince people to become hapless followers (in Hitler's case without even having met many of them), then why wouldn't my honest to goodness good person Inquisitor inspire such blind loyalty? I mean, she does with some people no doubt, but all the people of the Qun and the agents how couldn't they see her brilliant-awesome-she-only-wants-to-help-youness. 

Because bitterness can be more powerful than hope.

Spoiler

Remember, the qunari agents were already qunari; they converted back in Kirkwall when it was a total clusterf***.  They supported the Inquisitor 100% while Corypheus was kicking because no one, not even the qunari, wanted him to prevail.  But we've already discussed how damn good the qunari are at re-education.  No pain, no emotion when their loyalties were always to the Qun in the first place.

 

As for Solas's followers, I'll bet some of them were already his agents.  He was at Skyhold, able to quietly weed out the ones who might have fallen under quizzy's spell.  So much for them.  As for the rest, his message of rebellion probably had a lot of sympathetic ears.  You can have powerful elven characters in the worldstate, but the fact remains that for your average elf in Orlais, change comes slowly, and life still generally blows.  Just look at how much trouble we have with racism IRL.  I don't agree by any means, but I can sympathize with those who wanted more radical change and hopped on Team Violent Revolution.  It's like the run-up to the mage war all over again.

 

Spoiler

I have to admit, I'm also pretty surprised that Blackwall made to be Gray Warden doesn't get a particularly good ending as well...

 

Spoiler

Wait, what's so bad about his Warden ending?  I thought it was fine.  Are you talking about the romanced version?